Awesome Thread on the Penn St Board

[kjb32812]

First let me say I think you are rational and sane.

However I completely disagree with your stance on this lunatic being a "vocal minority". I'm sorry to say for you, who at least have reasonable thought processes, that you school/alum are infested with people like this. You make it sound like he is one of 5% of your fans. He may be the extreme, but there are TONS of his ilk. Maybe not as many people who think Sandusky wasn't so bad. But tons who feel that dirtbag Paterno was a saint, and tons who feel this has nothing to with football , and tons who cut off their right nut to have the Paterno statue restored.

And you are right, it makes your school look horrible. And this is not a "Rutgers jealousy" phenomenon either.

Unfortunately, there are people on both sides of the fence who really don't know the facts about the situation. My parents are nearly 80 and were appalled when I first told them my feelings about the whole situation and Joe Paterno. After talking with them a bit and asking questions, it was clear that they had no idea what they were talking about. I truly believe there are a lot of folks who are like that and just want to hold on to Paterno as being some type of idol. I've had a few (I try not to even get going) conversations at games and the same is true. The logical progression is that Joe Paterno did what he was supposed to do, the higher ups dropped the ball and the BOT used Paterno as a scapegoat. Legally, I suppose most of that is true. That still leaves us with that email though. Even then, the email is subject to interpretation at this point.

 

[kjb32812]

WOW. What about McQueary's witness account? Eh never mind, no answer needed from a complete freak like you.

That's probably as bad example since that is an instance that Sandusky was not found guilty.

 

[jmc11201]

There is no objective empirical evidence that suggests he did, only he said she said. I have been long troubled by the fact there is no past medical evidence. There would be no physical evidence after such a passage of time. What's troubling is that in not one case, is there any visit to a doctor, clinic, ER school nurse, etc. A guy of Sandusky's size would inflict damage that couldn't be concealed by "throwing my underwear away" or burying your face in a pillow. Sorry, as a retired LE officer, it just isn't happening. Saw massive damage done to adults. It would be worse in children, and I've been involved there as well. Could he have grabbed some nads and ass? Of course. This is a case where there is no evidence and no witnesses. Troubling.

How would you like to be accused on someone's say so. I doubt you would.

This makes me actually feel some empathy for Penn State fans. I can't imagine having a guy like this representing me.

 

[pnnylion]

Zero cases. It's not hard to jump on the internet and read about cases though. It's not hard to see that it is common for children to hide the molestation from friends and family because of shame. Don't try to give me this bullshit that I need to have been part of a case to understand what's going on. The information is out there and easy to find.

You are still a ****ing idiot.

And the pain and damage was concealed how?

 

[pnnylion]

This makes me actually feel some empathy for Penn State fans. I can't imagine having a guy like this representing me.

I have no empathy for those who represent some school and just make up crap.

 

[jmc11201]

And the pain and damage was concealed how?

Why does it take many, many years for victims of sexual abuse at the hands of priests to come forward? Isn't it the same thing? They bury it for a long time until they feel safe revealing it?

 

[PatrickRU92]

Unfortunately, there are people on both sides of the fence who really don't know the facts about the situation. My parents are nearly 80 and were appalled when I first told them my feelings about the whole situation and Joe Paterno. After talking with them a bit and asking questions, it was clear that they had no idea what they were talking about. I truly believe there are a lot of folks who are like that and just want to hold on to Paterno as being some type of idol. I've had a few (I try not to even get going) conversations at games and the same is true. The logical progression is that Joe Paterno did what he was supposed to do, the higher ups dropped the ball and the BOT used Paterno as a scapegoat. Legally, I suppose most of that is true. That still leaves us with that email though. Even then, the email is subject to interpretation at this point.

Look don't get me started on the facts

Here are the facts. Paterno knew 10 years before it came out that something was up with Sandusky and children. Whether you want to believe that Paterno knew that he was actually having sex with them in the State Penn shower or not , he still knew SOMETHING was up. Yet Sandusky still had an office in State Penn for 10 years. End of story! Those are the only facts you need. Emails, who said what to whom, whatever. THIS IS THE ONLY RELEVANT FACT YOU NEED

I'm sorry. But paterno was a scumbag. Not to the same degree as Sandusky, but a scumbag nonetheless. It isn't the first time or the last that a revered figure turned out to be a scumbag on further investigation. People in Germany loved Hitler too. (and NO I'm not saying paterno was on the same level of hitler )

He deserves every bit of venom spewed at him . I don't care if he's dead. He was nothign more than a football factory keeper who sold his soul to the devil. And his statue should be pissed on. But never fear you people will have it back up withing a couple of years, just watch.

 

[pnnylion]

Why does it take many, many years for victims of sexual abuse at the hands of priests to come forward? Isn't it the same thing? They bury it for a long time until they feel safe revealing it?

You didn't answer the question.

 

[pnnylion]

Look don't get me started on the facts

Here are the facts. Paterno knew 10 years before it came out that something was up with Sandusky and children. Whether you want to believe that Paterno knew that he was actually having sex with them in the State Penn shower or not , he still knew SOMETHING was up. Yet Sandusky still had an office in State Penn for 10 years. End of story! Those are the only facts you need. Emails, who said what to whom, whatever. THIS IS THE ONLY RELEVANT FACT YOU NEED

I'm sorry. But paterno was a scumbag. Not to the same degree as Sandusky, but a scumbag nonetheless. It isn't the first time or the last that a revered figure turned out to be a scumbag on further investigation. People in Germany loved Hitler too. (and NO I'm not saying paterno was on the same level of hitler )

He deserves every bit of venom spewed at him . I don't care if he's dead. He was nothign more than a football factory keeper who sold his soul to the devil. And his statue should be pissed on. But never fear you people will have it back up withing a couple of years, just watch.

There isn't one "fact" in what you posted. Not one.

 

[getmyjive11]

And the pain and damage was concealed how?

The same way it is in all the other cases where people come forward years later to confront their attacker in court.

 

[getmyjive11]

You didn't answer the question.

They simply hide it and don't talk about the incident. It's not ****ing hard to understand.

 

[jmc11201]

You didn't answer the question.

The pain the children experienced was concealed by shame.

I answered the question.

 

[pnnylion]

They simply hide it and don't talk about the incident. It's not ****ing hard to understand.

They hid the damage too? Don't be an idiot.

 

[pnnylion]

The pain the children experienced was concealed by shame.

I answered the question.

And the damage? You guys know nothing about the subject you're spinning away on.

 

[PatrickRU92]

There isn't one "fact" in what you posted. Not one.

Oh shut up you culty drone.

 

[kjb32812]

Look don't get me started on the facts

Here are the facts. Paterno knew 10 years before it came out that something was up with Sandusky and children. Whether you want to believe that Paterno knew that he was actually having sex with them in the State Penn shower or not , he still knew SOMETHING was up. Yet Sandusky still had an office in State Penn for 10 years. End of story! Those are the only facts you need. Emails, who said what to whom, whatever. THIS IS THE ONLY RELEVANT FACT YOU NEED

I'm sorry. But paterno was a scumbag. Not to the same degree as Sandusky, but a scumbag nonetheless. It isn't the first time or the last that a revered figure turned out to be a scumbag on further investigation. People in Germany loved Hitler too. (and NO I'm not saying paterno was on the same level of hitler )

He deserves every bit of venom spewed at him . I don't care if he's dead. He was nothign more than a football factory keeper who sold his soul to the devil. And his statue should be pissed on. But never fear you people will have it back up withing a couple of years, just watch.

I get that and am not a Joe Paterno supporter. However, it isn't as simple as you are trying to make it out to be as there are legal issues that your are totally dismissing.

 

[jmc11201]

And the damage? You guys know nothing about the subject you're spinning away on.

Is this Dottie?

 

[getmyjive11]

They hid the damage too? Don't be an idiot.

Who specifically is looking at "the damage"? Who is inspecting a 12 year old's mid-section?

 

[Count_von_Count]

There was a "Joe Out" last year. PSU's home game against Massachusetts. About 50 people participated. I'd expect similar numbers this year.

Now carry on with your regularly scheduled "f*** that cult school to our west" discussion.

 

[pnnylion]

There was a "Joe Out" last year. PSU's home game against Massachusetts. About 50 people participated. I'd expect similar numbers this year.

Now carry on with your regularly scheduled "f*** that cult school to our west" discussion.

Look who changed names.

 

[pnnylion]

Who specifically is looking at "the damage"? Who is inspecting a 12 year old's mid-section?

You keep insisting there was "rape". The medical reports? Damage?

 

[RutgHoops]

For my own benefit please show me the quote in the actual email where Joe supposedly stopped Curly, Shultz, and Spanier from reporting Sandusky to the police. I am no fan of Paterno but to believe that Joe would or could stop higher-ups from going to the police just sounds ridiculous. We already know that people think the person referenced as "Coach" in the emails is Joe Paterno but that isnt necessarily true. Please provide the quoted email of Paterno stopping his bosses from reporting the incident? I would like to be enlightened.

The idea that Joe Paterno had higher ups in State College is, quite possibly, the most laughable defense from PSU fans.

Curley was Joe Paterno's GA at one time and his hand picked successor as AD. Curley couldn't buy a set of oars for the Women's Crew team without running it by JoePa first. To cling to the idea that Joe thought his former DC was sexually abusing kids and reported it to "his bosses" is the height denial. It may look good on an org chart and it may be the "plausible deniability" needed by Joebots to defend the guy, but it is fallacy.

There is ZERO chance Joe Paterno wanted Sandusky reported to authorities and guys like Curley and Spanier had the BALLS to disobey. No chance. Whatever those guys did or did not do they ran by Joe. Period. They wouldn't have their jobs for an hour if at any point in their careers they didn't follow that philosophy.

 

[pnnylion]

There was a "Joe Out" last year. PSU's home game against Massachusetts. About 50 people participated. I'd expect similar numbers this year.

Now carry on with your regularly scheduled "f*** that cult school to our west" discussion.

Over 2000 estimated, but hey, keep on.

 

[pnnylion]

The idea that Joe Paterno had higher ups in State College is, quite possibly, the most laughable defense from PSU fans.

Curley was Joe Paterno's GA at one time and his hand picked successor as AD. Curley couldn't buy a set of oars for the Women's Crew team without running it by JoePa first. To cling to the idea that Joe thought his former DC was sexually abusing kids and reported it to "his bosses" is the height denial. It may look good on an org chart and it may be the "plausible deniability" needed by Joebots to defend the guy, but it is fallacy.

There is ZERO chance Joe Paterno wanted Sandusky reported to authorities and guys like Curley and Spanier had the BALLS to disobey. No chance. Whatever those guys did or did not do they ran by Joe. Period. They wouldn't have their jobs for an hour if at any point in their careers they didn't follow that philosophy.

Proof?

 

[Mudge1026]

Look don't get me started on the facts

Here are the facts. Paterno knew 10 years before it came out that something was up with Sandusky and children. Whether you want to believe that Paterno knew that he was actually having sex with them in the State Penn shower or not , he still knew SOMETHING was up. Yet Sandusky still had an office in State Penn for 10 years. End of story! Those are the only facts you need. Emails, who said what to whom, whatever. THIS IS THE ONLY RELEVANT FACT YOU NEED

I'm sorry. But paterno was a scumbag. Not to the same degree as Sandusky, but a scumbag nonetheless. It isn't the first time or the last that a revered figure turned out to be a scumbag on further investigation. People in Germany loved Hitler too. (and NO I'm not saying paterno was on the same level of hitler )

He deserves every bit of venom spewed at him . I don't care if he's dead. He was nothign more than a football factory keeper who sold his soul to the devil. And his statue should be pissed on. But never fear you people will have it back up withing a couple of years, just watch.

Sandusky having an office on campus was not Parerno's doing. , it was a decision made by Spanier.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

That's probably as bad example since that is an instance that Sandusky was not found guilty.

Really? Not looking to argue, I just haven't dug into every detail of the whole mess but I'm very surprised to hear that Sandusky was found not guilty of the shower rape reported by McQueary. How could that be? Did the victim not come forward? Just asking.

 

[Mudge1026]

Really? Not looking to argue, I just haven't dug into every detail of the whole mess but I'm very surprised to hear that Sandusky was found not guilty of the shower rape reported by McQueary. How could that be? Did the victim not come forward? Just asking.

The alleged victim never came forward, we don't know for sure if anything happened so a possible victim may not see himself as a victim.

 

[pnnylion]

Really? Not looking to argue, I just haven't dug into every detail of the whole mess but I'm very surprised to hear that Sandusky was found not guilty of the shower rape reported by McQueary. How could that be? Did the victim not come forward? Just asking.

The thing was Mike never stated he saw or reported any penetration, nor did he see any erection or report any. He thought something had happened because he thought he heard "2 or 3 sounds" for "about 2 seconds".

 

[srru86]

Also, being laughed off the BWI free board is not something to use as support for someone being a horrible poster.

Some might consider that a badge of honor.

 

[kjb32812]

Really? Not looking to argue, I just haven't dug into every detail of the whole mess but I'm very surprised to hear that Sandusky was found not guilty of the shower rape reported by McQueary. How could that be? Did the victim not come forward? Just asking.

The victim changed his story and wasn't called to testify by either side.

 

[Ty Webb]

I get that and am not a Joe Paterno supporter. However, it isn't as simple as you are trying to make it out to be as there are legal issues that your are totally dismissing.

What legal issues? For me, it's never been a legal issue. Paterno did the bare minimum under the lawe. To me, it's always been a moral and ethical issue.

As Patrick said, when you boil it down to its simplest form, Paterno knew something was amiss as far as a decade ago. Frankly, I find it illogical that he didn't know something before that when the police investigated Sandusky back in the late 90s. How do PSU fans expect outsiders to believe that a coach in Paterno who knew everything about his program didn't know his top assistant at the time was being looked at by the police? Further, I've had PSU friends openly admit that there have been rumors about Sandusky for years. So again, the notion that Paterno never heard these rumors and then when faced with what he was told by McQueary did the bare minimum is peculiar and galling to me.

So when all this surfaced, the best thing the most powerful man in PSU history (and this was professed by almost every PSU fan prior to this scandal) could come up with was tell his AD and school VP, and then pretend it was over and he wouldnt' have to deal with it again?

How does that even make sense with some of you? For years you guys would profess how great, caring, powerful, influential Paterno was. But when faced with a real moral issue.......... the expectation for the most influential man, the most powerful man, the most moral man in PSU history was that he would tell his AD and the man who just as administrative control over the campus police and that was enough?

Maybe legally. But reality is that the myth of the great Paterno that you guys built up and pontificated about for years came crashing to the ground and that the great Paterno was nothing more than a total fraud.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

The alleged victim never came forward, we don't know for sure if anything happened so a possible victim may not see himself as a victim.

Well my gut tells me that many boy (or adult male for that matter) rape victims will refuse to publicly admit to an attack like that. In no way would I consider Sandusky innocent just because a victim won't come forward.

 

[Ty Webb]

Proof?

How about 40 ****ing years of PSU fans telling us how great Paterno was and how he controlled everything? When he wanted something at PSU, every scrambled to get it done. When Paterno wanted a VP of student affairs gone because she was being too tough on players, what did PSU do? They sided with Joe.

It's embarrassing and laughable and sad and pathetic that after years of shouting from the soapbox about how full of integrity Paterno was and how powerful he was and how much better he was than another coach and how he was so influential in the rise of PSU, that suddenly, PSU fans want to act like Paterno was just a simple, small cog in the wheel that is PSU and that it's unfair for anyone to expect he coudl have done more than the very bare minimum he did.

 

[kjb32812]

What legal issues? For me, it's never been a legal issue. Paterno did the bare minimum under the lawe. To me, it's always been a moral and ethical issue.

As Patrick said, when you boil it down to its simplest form, Paterno knew something was amiss as far as a decade ago. Frankly, I find it illogical that he didn't know something before that when the police investigated Sandusky back in the late 90s. How do PSU fans expect outsiders to believe that a coach in Paterno who knew everything about his program didn't know his top assistant at the time was being looked at by the police? Further, I've had PSU friends openly admit that there have been rumors about Sandusky for years. So again, the notion that Paterno never heard these rumors and then when faced with what he was told by McQueary did the bare minimum is peculiar and galling to me.

So when all this surfaced, the best thing the most powerful man in PSU history (and this was professed by almost every PSU fan prior to this scandal) could come up with was tell his AD and school VP, and then pretend it was over and he wouldnt' have to deal with it again?

How does that even make sense with some of you? For years you guys would profess how great, caring, powerful, influential Paterno was. But when faced with a real moral issue.......... the expectation for the most influential man, the most powerful man, the most moral man in PSU history was that he would tell his AD and the man who just as administrative control over the campus police and that was enough?

Maybe legally. But reality is that the myth of the great Paterno that you guys built up and pontificated about for years came crashing to the ground and that the great Paterno was nothing more than a total fraud.

Look man, I'm with you and see it as a total failure by everyone involved, including Paterno. He should have picked up the phone and had McQueary call the police. Instead, he reported it to his bosses. Once that is done, he is no longer supposed to be part of the conversation...which takes me back to the email. Supporters will argue that he couldn't follow-up with C/S/S because they were not legally allowed to keep him abreast of the situation. Then, when you point out the email they will point to the fact that it is inconclusive.

 

[pnnylion]

How about 40 ****ing years of PSU fans telling us how great Paterno was and how he controlled everything? When he wanted something at PSU, every scrambled to get it done. When Paterno wanted a VP of student affairs gone because she was being too tough on players, what did PSU do? They sided with Joe.

It's embarrassing and laughable and sad and pathetic that after years of shouting from the soapbox about how full of integrity Paterno was and how powerful he was and how much better he was than another coach and how he was so influential in the rise of PSU, that suddenly, PSU fans want to act like Paterno was just a simple, small cog in the wheel that is PSU and that it's unfair for anyone to expect he coudl have done more than the very bare minimum he did.

That's not proof. That's called jealousy and hatred.

 

[Ty Webb]

Look man, I'm with you and see it as a total failure by everyone involved, including Paterno. He should have picked up the phone and had McQueary call the police. Instead, he reported it to his bosses. Once that is done, he is no longer supposed to be part of the conversation...which takes me back to the email. Supporters will argue that he couldn't follow-up with C/S/S because they were not legally allowed to keep him abreast of the situation. Then, when you point out the email they will point to the fact that it is inconclusive.

Ridiculous and gets back to this ridiculous notion that Paterno was suddenly just a pawn here. The entire PSU fan base did a quick u-turn about what kind of power Paterno had the moment it came out that he had knowledge of something amiss going on. Prior to the scandal, Paterno was a god. After the scandal comes out, Paterno was a small cog in the PSU machine, a good soldier.

LOL.

 

[pnnylion]

Look man, I'm with you and see it as a total failure by everyone involved, including Paterno. He should have picked up the phone and had McQueary call the police. Instead, he reported it to his bosses. Once that is done, he is no longer supposed to be part of the conversation...which takes me back to the email. Supporters will argue that he couldn't follow-up with C/S/S because they were not legally allowed to keep him abreast of the situation. Then, when you point out the email they will point to the fact that it is inconclusive.

Paterno had no basis to "tell Mike to pick up the phone and call police". He got a vague report that was hearsay that indicated nothing. Paterno was confirmed to have acted appropriately. The "new" NCAA procedure is exactly what Paterno did. Why didn't Dranov and Mike's dad tell him to call the police? They were mandated reporters. You can't have it both ways.

Try to keep up with the facts. Lose the emotion.

And there is no ethical or moral issue(s), that was covered yesterday. No such thing.

 

[Ty Webb]

That's not proof. That's called jealousy and hatred.

LOL. Jealous of what? A coach who clearly perpetuated a fraud on his fanbase? A coach who when faced with his greatest moral dilemma, cut bait and ran? A guy who would use his influence to overrule the police and the school's disciplinarian arm when his players were involved but was suddenly powerless in this scandal.

There are no bigger hypocrites in this country than Paterno backers.

My god, if this had been Urban Meyer or Steve Spurrier involved in this, you Paterno sheep would have been on your soapboxes railing them and that's why you guys are better than everyone else - because your coach had more integrity than that.

Frauds. The entire fanbase.

 

[pnnylion]

LOL. Jealous of what? A coach who clearly perpetuated a fraud on his fanbase? A coach who when faced with his greatest moral dilemma, cut bait and ran? A guy who would use his influence to overrule the police and the school's disciplinarian arm when his players were involved but was suddenly powerless in this scandal.

There are no bigger hypocrites in this country than Paterno backers.

My god, if this had been Urban Meyer or Steve Spurrier involved in this, you Paterno sheep would have been on your soapboxes railing them and that's why you guys are better than everyone else - because your coach had more integrity than that.

Frauds. The entire fanbase.

More hatred and jealousy. No facts.

 

[Ty Webb]

Paterno had no basis to "tell Mike to pick up the phone and call police". He got a vague report that was hearsay that indicated nothing. Paterno was confirmed to have acted appropriately. The "new" NCAA procedure is exactly what Paterno did. Why didn't Dranov and Mike's dad tell him to call the police? They were mandated reporters. You can't have it both ways.

Try to keep up with the facts. Lose the emotion.

And there is no ethical or moral issue(s), that was covered yesterday. No such thing.

Who is having it both ways? They should have acted too.

Another lame argument. Because no one else acted, Paterno should get a pss.

There absolutely are moral issues at here. But to admit that would mean that your entire existence woudl be shattered.

Your head coach was a fraud. A complete and total fraud. He had no more integrity than any of the coaches you guys would rail on over the years for cheating, etc.