Basketball under Pikiell further along then Football

[bac2therac]

It doesnt change the fact that it is much easier to turn around a college baketball team than a college football team.
And there will be no one drafted from last years football team. None were even invited to the combine.
Your point about having a bad OC is further proof that football is harder. In basketball you have the head coach who runs the entire program with help from assistants. In college you have coordinators that run different parts of the program with guidence from the head coach.

Disagree....its not so easy....RU hoops barren for 26 years...compare it to the Shea years and then compare that job that Pike faces to Schiano....Ash has a much better starting point not to mention all the bells and whistles and extra and tons of money that the hoops program does not get. While football rep is at least okay with NJ...its terrible when it comes to basketball. RU hoops has incredibly negative perception among NJ recruits, coaches, aau and other hangers on. That alone makes the job incredibly difficult. So no its not just get a couple of guys and the team is turned around. Pike hasnt even turned the team around yet in terms of wins and losses, they still will be below 500. He is just starting. It make until year 5 or 6 to make the NCAA tourney which is alot tougher than making a minor bowl game

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

It doesnt change the fact that it is much easier to turn around a college baketball team than a college football team.
And there will be no one drafted from last years football team. None were even invited to the combine.
Your point about having a bad OC is further proof that football is harder. In basketball you have the head coach who runs the entire program with help from assistants. In college you have coordinators that run different parts of the program with guidence from the head coach.

and yet we haven't been to the dance in 3 decades

each sport has it's own unique variables that help determine how difficult it is to make a winner. BBall is every bit as hard as football, do not underestimate how hard it is

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

Here's the perfect example of why you can't compare basketball and football. In basketball, you can take the Cleveland Cavaliers who were one of the worst teams in the NBA. Throw Lebron James on that team and they are in the NBA Finals. In football it doesn't work that way.

really? Chiefs got Montana and immediately went to the playoffs. Plenty of examples of a key player addition that helped a team turn around

Also, there are plenty of 'great' players in fball, not quite so true in bball

 

[DHajekRC84]

Experienced winning coach with a quality staff from day 1. Advantage Pike.
Great to see WHILE the Football makes its own strides.
Overall we're heading in the right direction together FOR ONCE!
Lax Men, Wrestling, Woman's Soccer...facilities upgrades...


LLLLONG TIME coming back up the mountain. Happier times ahead folks. Thank you Jesus! :sunglasses::pray:

 

[drewbagel423]

Here's the perfect example of why you can't compare basketball and football. In basketball, you can take the Cleveland Cavaliers who were one of the worst teams in the NBA. Throw Lebron James on that team and they are in the NBA Finals. In football it doesn't work that way.

They added a couple more players than just Lebron. And put Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady on the Browns and the team is instantly 8-8.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

Experienced winning coach with a quality staff from day 1. Advantage Pike.
Great to see WHILE the Football makes its own strides.
Overall we're heading in the right direction together FOR ONCE!
Lax Men, Wrestling, Woman's Soccer...facilities upgrades...


LLLLONG TIME coming back up the mountain. Happier times ahead folks. Thank you Jesus! :sunglasses::pray:

not to be a debbie downer but I'm a realist. Just where do you see "Overall we're heading in the right direction together FOR ONCE!" as bball is clearly in an upswing while football just finished a dismal year where we finished worse in every category than the guy's team we fired.

 

[WhiteBus]

and yet we haven't been to the dance in 3 decades

each sport has it's own unique variables that help determine how difficult it is to make a winner. BBall is every bit as hard as football, do not underestimate how hard it is

And yet historically the basketball team has had more success than the football team. The basketball team went to a Final Four. The football team hasnt even won a conference title (and no Rutgers didnt win one in 2012, Louisville did) or been to a major bowl game.

 

[RBNY87]

I think this is a fair post. You can take into account all factors and Pikeill had a better first year. He also did a much better job of surrounding himself with a quality staff. He managed to keep Shoes which was a huge factor in keeping the team together. Ash found a way to not keep even one person onboard. Panagos who was very good should have stayed based on his body of work imo. In short, the basketball team overachieved and football under achieved. The basketball team improved as season went along as well. Both are hard jobs but I think Pike's experience showed.

 

[theRU]

I feel you can love the direction both programs are going in. Not sure why you need to compare them to each other. Football is a much larger ship to turn around.

 

[theRU]

I think this is a fair post. You can take into account all factors and Pikeill had a better first year. He also did a much better job of surrounding himself with a quality staff. He managed to keep Shoes which was a huge factor in keeping the team together. Ash found a way to not keep even one person onboard. Panagos who was very good should have stayed based on his body of work imo. In short, the basketball team overachieved and football under achieved. The basketball team improved as season went along as well. Both are hard jobs but I think Pike's experience showed.

Unless you identify that the fb team has a culture issue (which we did) and the determination is to blow it up and restart. Sometimes you have to let everyone go because yoy know it's the right move long term.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

And yet historically the basketball team has had more success than the football team. The basketball team went to a Final Four. The football team hasnt even won a conference title (and no Rutgers didnt win one in 2012, Louisville did) or been to a major bowl game.

are you insane? you want to cite a final four from almost 5 decades ago when football just finished a run of how many bowl games?

we don't even need to get into resources and funding


stop, you just look foolish

 

[RU#1fan]

Difference is Pikiell has Head Coaching experience and Ash has none.
And Ash made some bonehead blunders in hiring Assistants in his first year. We saw the impact of these in Ash's first year. Look for improvement this year and substantial gains in 2018.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

Unless you identify that the fb team has a culture issue (which we did) and the determination is to blow it up and restart. Sometimes you have to let everyone go because yoy know it's the right move long term.

do you think that is what Ash did? Where did he ever intimate anything along these lines?

 

[madchuck]

Difference is Pikiell has Head Coaching experience and Ash has none.
And Ash made some bonehead blunders in hiring Assistants in his first year. We saw the impact of these in Ash's first year. Look for improvement this year and substantial gains in 2018.

Jerry Kill should be the X-factor.

 

[LETSGORU91]

granted basketball is easier to turn around,but the buzz and forward motion and overall culture change Coach Pikiell has done in one season is unreal.
Football needs to get going..starting with 2018 recruiting class.. Calling Coach Ash..
great Job Bball men..first ever B10 post season win!

http://btn.com/2017-big-ten-mens-basketball-tournament-central/

I would dispute that basketball is further along than football. It's hard to base a turn around on results of one season. The culture has positively changed for both teams. Effort is there for both teams. The difference is one, two, or three good additions to a basketball team produces quicker results than the same number of players in football. The other thing is underclassmen BB players can step in and typically contribute immediately. In FB, those same underclassmen haven't matured physically and/or mentally enough to compete with 21 to 23 year olds. There is a reason basketball players can go pro after freshman year and football has to wait 3 years to be drafted by the NFL.

So it's hard to compare the two coaches/teams based on one year.

 

[WhiteBus]

are you insane? you want to cite a final four from almost 5 decades ago when football just finished a run of how many bowl games?

we don't even need to get into resources and funding


stop, you just look foolish

Youre the one that brought up decades not me. It took from 1869 until 2006 for Rutgers football to get national attention. You are talking 30 lousy years.

 

[seels2662]

"One LeBron and the program is turned around". Do you know how hard it is to get that LeBron? There are well over 300 four stars or better every recruiting season in football with like 130 or so FBS programs vieing for them and in basketball there are around 100 four star or better players every year with around 350 D1 programs trying to get them. That player is very very rare. You have to build a basketball team without that star.

Even Flood will have players he recruited go to the NFL. How many NBA players have we had in the last 20 years?

 

[theRU]

do you think that is what Ash did? Where did he ever intimate anything along these lines?

So how deep has your head been stuck in the sand? His press conference was about establishing and changing the culture. We had player arrests, a coaching scandal, an NCAA investigation pending. He blew it up and restarted.

 

[RUaMoose]

Difference is Pikiell has Head Coaching experience and Ash has none.
And Ash made some bonehead blunders in hiring Assistants in his first year. We saw the impact of these in Ash's first year. Look for improvement this year and substantial gains in 2018.

This is why you don't hire a guy with no head coaching experience. We went through that with Schiano and rode his learning curve for several years. Once was enough. This time around we should have hired a guy with head coaching experience not another young assistant that has to learn on the job. The OC hire (one example) was awful and set us back a year.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

So how deep has your head been stuck in the sand? His press conference was about establishing and changing the culture. We had player arrests, a coaching scandal, an NCAA investigation pending. He blew it up and restarted.

first off, if you want to have a debate, debate like an adult

his press conference was no different than anyone else taking over a similar role. The verbiage is all the same, same coach speak etc. We expect some house cleaning but even Spurrier retained people from previous staffs/orgs.

no way he blew it up like you guys think, he still had to win games. his choice of when to come was poor, choice of coaches was poor, gameday coaching was less than poor etc etc

yeah, he blew up alright

 

[WhiteBus]

first off, if you want to have a debate, debate like an adult

his press conference was no different than anyone else taking over a similar role. The verbiage is all the same, same coach speak etc. We expect some house cleaning but even Spurrier retained people from previous staffs/orgs.

no way he blew it up like you guys think, he still had to win games. his choice of when to come was poor, choice of coaches was poor, gameday coaching was less than poor etc etc

yeah, he blew up alright

You arent debating either. You just hate Coach Ash.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

You arent debating either. You just hate Coach Ash.

not at all, Ash's failures and inadequacies as a coach are evident and documented
I am a realist, have to call it like it is here.

Now if this is the best you got, you need to go back to your cornflakes and take a nap

 

[rubaseball78]

Basketball you need 2 or 3 good/great players. Football you need about 20. Stupid post considering that Flood left a bare cupboard.

But we have spent the last 25 years disproving the theory how easy it is to turn around bball.

 

[theRU]

first off, if you want to have a debate, debate like an adult

his press conference was no different than anyone else taking over a similar role. The verbiage is all the same, same coach speak etc. We expect some house cleaning but even Spurrier retained people from previous staffs/orgs.

no way he blew it up like you guys think, he still had to win games. his choice of when to come was poor, choice of coaches was poor, gameday coaching was less than poor etc etc

yeah, he blew up alright

so first off. you are a clown. its well documented how big of clown you are.That hat in the ring? Its a freaking clown hat. when you wake up in the morning, you put on your little clown slippers, then you put on your wig and clown nose... you then climb up the stairs and yell at your mom to get your breakfast ready for you cause you need spend all day on Scarletnation being the big clown that you are.

People within the program have stated how bad things were internally. It would be prudent to assume that what was happening behind closed doors was even worse than what was said in public. The program was a mess. He cleaned it up. This year you will see better results. Next year you will see some progress.

You may go back to your clown ways now. And Id say to pay for premium because then you'd hear more from the inside about how bad things were under flood, but No. I dont want you there.

 

[knightflight]

That is the difference between hiring a proven head coach and a coordinator who is learning to be a head coach on a big stage.

 

[theRU]

You arent debating either. You just hate Coach Ash.

he is just clowning.

 

[WhiteBus]

not at all, Ash's failures and inadequacies as a coach are evident and documented
I am a realist, have to call it like it is here.

Now if this is the best you got, you need to go back to your cornflakes and take a nap

You have shown in great detail that you know nothing about college football and certainly about the talent level left for Ash to begin his career.
And yes. You do hate him solely because he wasnt a head coach before.
If you expected a turnaround in Rutgers Football than you clearly are lost.

 

[cicero grimes]

Which program is further along; Wrestling or MLAX?

 

[TRU2RU]

Actually, he is doing with the previous coaches players. ( for the most part)

Based on your statement it is obvious that you know nothing about RU basketball in regards to this season versus last years team. Freeman played only 7 games last year & was red shirted due to injury, Getty's is a transfer who was not on the team last year,Johnson sat out last year as a red shirt transfer & Thiam is a true freshman, so to say that Pike is doing it with the previous coaches players is absurd, since the majority of the players did not play last year.

 

[NotInRHouse]

There is no doubt Flood ruined the program, but the basketball program was WAY further behind.

The current bball players were not even alive the last time RU went to the post game. I still remember being at Detroit bowl win.

Bball facilities are way behind football.

The perception of the football program is better than bball- as abysmal as both are.

The bball team's performance this year is miraculous. Pike is the right coach. Ash may be- it would be foolish to claim so with such gusto as some do when we had 2 wins last year.

The basketball team has won more B1G conference games this year than football has since 2014...crazy

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Three things

1.) Basektball is just as hard to turn around as football. Yes you need less numbers but you can't turn it around taking chances on players. You cannot swing and miss too often with 13 scholarship players...football you can do that

2.) I will state that part of the reason WHY basketball looks further ahead is that we have some talent from the previous regime. It was not developed...but there is more recruited talent here in basketball than most give credit for. People mislabel lack of talent for lack of shooting and there is some truth for it....but we are not so far behind in talent in basketball. Football is a different story. The cupboard is BARE and there is little left that Ash inherited to make it work

3.) As a result...different sports and different circumstances. Apples and Oranges

 

[lilphilw]

Disagree....its not so easy....RU hoops barren for 26 years...compare it to the Shea years and then compare that job that Pike faces to Schiano....Ash has a much better starting point not to mention all the bells and whistles and extra and tons of money that the hoops program does not get. While football rep is at least okay with NJ...its terrible when it comes to basketball. RU hoops has incredibly negative perception among NJ recruits, coaches, aau and other hangers on. That alone makes the job incredibly difficult. So no its not just get a couple of guys and the team is turned around. Pike hasnt even turned the team around yet in terms of wins and losses, they still will be below 500. He is just starting. It make until year 5 or 6 to make the NCAA tourney which is alot tougher than making a minor bowl game

Don't agree at all here. I can see the team making a run for the NIT next year and then getting some momentum with recruits. The basketball team has some decent talent leftover from Jordan. Rutgers can be a middle of the pack BIG team by next year. Not something you can say about the football program

The football program is playing in the best division in all of college football. Flood has hurt a lot of the football perception in NJ. Last years recruiting class was better than anything Flood brought in himself but this years recruiting class in NJ is already going to be an uphill battle. It'll take 3 more classes like that to make them a middle of the pack BIG team especially with all the transfers and players dismissed during Flood's tenure

 

[e5fdny]

Can we just be happy for MBB without taking cheap shots at Football?.

It wasn't directed at Football. ;)

 

[oldtimer67]

This thread is the best example of how bad things have gotten at Rutgers.

Our fan base is as ecstatic about finishing last and beating the 11th place team as most fan bases are about winning the conference championships.

Just wait until football beats Indiana. The celebration will be like a ticker tape parade.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

This thread is the best example of how bad things have gotten at Rutgers.

Our fan base is as ecstatic about finishing last and beating the 11th place team as most fan bases are about winning the conference championships.

Just wait until football beats Indiana. The celebration will be like a ticker tape parade.

great post

think we can end here

well played sir

 

[Block R]

But we have spent the last 25 years disproving the theory how easy it is to turn around bball.

Most people seem to be making the point it is easier (not easy) to turn around basketball compared to football, to which I would agree. If our fans have learned nothing else over the years, they should at least know by now it isn't easy to turn either sport around.

 

[devoted2ru]

This thread is the best example of how bad things have gotten at Rutgers.

Our fan base is as ecstatic about finishing last and beating the 11th place team as most fan bases are about winning the conference championships.

Just wait until football beats Indiana. The celebration will be like a ticker tape parade.

A few things:

1.) Who the hell is ecstatic about finishing last in conference?
2.) According to the announcers on BTN, this was the 1st time in B1G history that a 14th seed won in the 1st round. If you don't see some sign of improvement as a result, or something to feel positive about regarding that, then you're just not looking, or you simply don't want to see it since it wouldn't fit your seemingly endless negative agenda.
3.) Hate to break it to 'ya, but we already beat Indiana in football...in 2015, though Lord knows how with the staff that was on the sidelines at the time. -Must have missed the ticker tape parade afterwards, though, but do hope you enjoyed it.

Here's a suggestion, since you seem to think everything about Rutgers is as bad as you do, why not just follow another team? You'll be doing yourself, and everybody else, a big favor.

 

[Block R]

2.) According to the announcers on BTN, this was the 1st time in B1G history that a 14th seed won in the 1st round..

Not to rain on your parade (I agree with the sentiment of your post) but ask yourself how many years has there been a 14th seed in the B1G tournament?

 

[BlockR]

Jerry Kill should be the X-factor.

While Kill will be a major improvement and hopefully add head coaching experience like Fridge did for Flood,it still comes down to Jimmies and Joes..as of now for 2018..we no Jimmies and no Joes..;).

 

[dollarbill]

It's pretty safe to say that basketball has bottomed out. Football is a B1G unknown. $$$$