Big 12 Expansion

[WhiteBus]

You still are having your own argument and have yet to say anything that refuted my very basic point, but I'm clueless?

Lmao, @ BYU and others. Yes, BYU, the one good obtainable property remaining, which is independent and thereby not "poachable," and a bunch of squirrels from around the country that just want to be a part of any P5 conference.

We'll meet back here in 10 years to see how many of your other predictions come true. Pretty sure ship has sailed on the B12 poaching any legit P5 now that it's an unstable sh*tshow dominated by one self-serving team, but I'm sure that'll change in the future.

Your whole storyline is straight outta 2013, and it never happened. ACC approved GOR, became more stable than the B12, and has even been better at football the past few years to boot. B12 has become a joke and shell of its former self.

I will take you up on that beer .. better yet, the stronger, hallucinigenic brew you're drinking tonight [cheers]

Hallucinogenic beer and good cigars. See you at the Scarlet Walk. Just look for the 6 foot Great Dane. I'll be standing right next to her on the east side of the hedges where I've been for over 10 years. Add in another 20+ years as a season ticket holder

 

[RUforlife]

Texas isn't going anywhere unless there is a guaranteed soft landing for Texas Tech. You have to understand Texas politics.

 

[WhiteBus]

Texas isn't going anywhere unless their is a guaranteed soft landing for Texas Tech. You have to understand Texas politics.

Same for Oklahoma and Oklahoma State.

 

[FanuSanu52]

Hallucinogenic beer and good cigars. See you at the Scarlet Walk. Just look for the 6 foot Great Dane. I'll be standing right next to her on the east side of the hedges where I've been for over 10 years

Unfortunately, I don't make it to many games - live across the country. If I do, I'd certainly have that beer but probably skip the cigar. Argument aside, your beer knowledge and 6-foot Great Dane, both seem quite excellent. Great Danes are among my favorite dogs, based on looks at least, never owned one. Heard they're not great in cold and snow, so that turned me off getting one.

 

[WhiteBus]

Unfortunately, I don't make it to many games - live across the country. If I do, I'd certainly have that beer but probably skip the cigar. Argument aside, your beer knowledge and 6-foot Great Dane, both seem quite excellent. Great Danes are among my favorite dogs, based on looks at least, never owned one. Heard they're not great in cold and snow, so that turned me off getting one.

They are great in snow and cold if you let them wear your 30 year old Rutgers Football jacket.

 

[PSUPOWER]

You take Texas and Oklahoma, then you go for the home run and go for Notre Dame. You now need a 4th and THEN you take Kansas.

This is how you expand south, if you can expand east no further (meaning the ACC stays together). Personally I like Maryland being the last team in the south east region.

That would give you a very strong even divisions
B1G West :
Texas
Oklahoma
Nebraska
Iowa
Wisconsin
Northwestern
Illinois
Minnesota
Kansas

B1G East:
Ohio State
Michigan
Penn State
Michigan State
Notre Dame
Indiana
Purdue
Maryland
Rutgers

I don't know the ACC can be raided further with the exception of Notre Dame, the conference pay out of the above B1G would be so insane, Notre Dame might accept it.

Here are some of the schools that the B1G would have the most interest in if they came calling in no order:

Notre Dame.
Virginia, North Carolina & Georgia Tech from the ACC.
Florida, Georgia & Texas A&M from the SEC.
Texas from the Big 12.

But, it doesn't look like any of them will be calling on the B1G anytime soon.

 

[jason21psu]

Not sure it's been mentioned but the Big 10 has a thing about teams have to be in a boarder state with an existing member. You can't take OU without Kansas and you can't take Texas without OU. Of course unless you took Missouri and that isn't going to happen.

Hopefully expansion is done forever. They have already ruined the sport with expansion and all the pussification rules.

I don't believe the border state thing is actually a thing. I remember way back before Nebby was brought in and expansion/realignment was in its infancy there was a really good article on all the forces at play with B1G expansion and It pretty much debunked that condition.

I'll try to find it later and post the link.

 

[Steve91562]

Texas isn't going anywhere unless there is a guaranteed soft landing for Texas Tech. You have to understand Texas politics.

Not as true as five years ago. Could of said the same with A&M. "Soft landing spot" may be just a revamped B12 if and when Tx leaves. Lots can happen in another five years. Hard to predict.

 

[Steve91562]

Not saying it is a certainty but ESPN may agree to pay Texas the amount of money they have been receiving for the duration of the LHN contract if they join the ACC Conference with Notre Dame. ESPN will incorporate the LHN into the ACCN with Notre Dame and be able to continue the revenue steam they have been receiving. ESPN can turn the current net loss from the LHN into a net positive for ESPN. ESPN would have a financial incentive to make it happen. ESPN may actually be able to pay Texas more money than they are currently receiving under the terms of the ESPN/LHN contract.

Would not be at all surprised if it happens.

I actually think the ACC Conference would be their best landing spot (National Championship hopes).

Time will tell.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

Certainly a possibility, especially given ESPN meddling. I actually read from an Ok insider that ESPN already tried to get Ok and UT to the ACC.

There are problems, however, with UT alone to the ACC: (1) time zones; (2) I don't think Tx wants to be an island out there by themselves, and (3) the ACC's image has been tarnished with the cheating (Syracuse, Miami, UNC, Louisville), and diminished academic prestige (Louisville) and that stuff has meaning to University Presidents.

In conference realignment, generally, likes have attracted likes. The ACC has attracted elite private institutions (generally), and the PAC and BIG have attracted elite land-grant public schools. And the SEC is really just southern public schools where football is God. Under this premise I can more likely see UT go to either of these conferences before the ACC.

I also believe a more likely scenario is that the B12 stays intact. Just the best of the bad situations for UT, or that a cluster goes to the PAC like almost happened in 2010. Not a fan of reconciliations after things have fallen apart, but I could see this more likely happening.

But who knows.

 

[Queztastic]

Texas won't go independent.

What could happen is that Texas may join the ACC in conjunction with Notre Dame to make a 16 member ACC Conference (previous rumors).

Since ESPN will have the exclusive broadcasting rights of the ACCN and LHN, the LHN network will be incorporated into the ACCN with Texas not losing any money.

If you are saying as full members, I don't see that as happening unless the playoff format changes to just include the four conference champions. Otherwise Notre Dame will never join a conference. If you are predicting that Texas would do some type of guaranteed # of games like ND does, then I could see that happening. However, I could also see almost anything happening with Texas. I have no clear idea of what their priorities are. At least with ND, you know what their priorities are. (1. Have a path to the playoff, 2. Remain independent, 3. Keep USC/Stanford games and play on the west coast each year, 4. Play Navy, etc.)

 

[Queztastic]

All the talk about OU to the B1G is pretty ridiculous since OU isn't in the AAU and is not even close to being eligible, which UConn at least is. I would prefer to see the B1G expand eastward again, adding UVa and UNC, especially before the SEC moves in on the latter. I think the next round of expansion might involve the SEC and B1G going to 16 each, with both of them wanting to add the states of NC and VA to their footprints.

After ND (which isn't happening), I think a UVA/UNC combo would be the B1G's first choice. However, the ACC is just a stronger conference right now than the Big XII.

 

[Steve91562]

Conference expansion to date just has been a shuffling of seats. Future expansion, I believe, if it occurs, will involve the reduction of the number of seats. Ultimately, those conferences with the greater historical stickiness (BIG, PAC, SEC, ACC) will survive.

By the way, no one is leaving the ACC now. That window of opportunity has closed. Fitting that the ACC lost Maryland, however, since they have been the most egregious in raiding and eventually destroying others (Big East). Plus, who the hell wants UNC. The stink of their cheating really makes me gag.

And for those who covet UT and ND -- there are no two more self-interested schools. They don't play well with others.

We'll see. Lots can change in a couple of years.

 

[huskersalways]

I don't believe the border state thing is actually a thing. I remember way back before Nebby was brought in and expansion/realignment was in its infancy there was a really good article on all the forces at play with B1G expansion and It pretty much debunked that condition.

I'll try to find it later and post the link.

I only mention it because it was brought up on college sports radio. One of the guests told the hosts when they were discussing whether the Big 12 would break up and where teams would go that that was a Big 10 thing and the original Big 10 schools would not vote for a school that did not meet that cryteria. Who knows. They aren't adding so it doesn't matter.

 

[RUBigFrank]

My prediction-as stated on other threads-

• Texas, some other Texas school and two Oklahomas to PAC 12
• Texas retains a modified version of the LH network
• Remnants of B12 merge with AAC

 

[WhiteBus]

My prediction-as stated on other threads-

• Texas, some other Texas school and two Oklahomas to PAC 12
• Texas retains a modified version of the LH network
• Remnants of B12 merge with AAC

PAC12 has already said no to Texas keeping the LHN.

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

My prediction-as stated on other threads-

• Texas, some other Texas school and two Oklahomas to PAC 12
• Texas retains a modified version of the LH network
• Remnants of B12 merge with AAC

PAC12 has already said no to Texas keeping the LHN.

The steers keeping their seldom watched rerun network is a non starter...

 

[Scarlet Shack]

You guys are MISSING the point here

1.) The Big ten really does not gain the craved eyeballs by taking any big 12 team other than Texas...and that isn't happening

2.) The Pac12 gains a WHOLE markey by adding four from the big12 and moving NATIONAL

Expect the Pac-12 to make the big move...

UNLESS the SEC wants Texas and Oklahoma....

Just don't think Jim Delany wants Midwest progeams...wants more east coast...unless it is Notre Dame

Then MAYBE Notre Dame and Kansas duo could be reginal additions...

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

realistically, UND is trapped in the ACC for a long time, so they are off the table. They are joining the Big Ten for Hockey and that is it for now.

If you believe the OU AD emails, Texas was looking to leave to the Pac-12 but was also looking at a package deal with UND to join the Big Ten but that was a long time ago and both never happen.

If ESPN kills the LHN, then Texas will be in play. The GOR ends the same year as the new Big Ten TV contract.

It should be noted that OU refuse to extend the GOR as well.

I can see Texas and OU going to the Big Ten. Joining the West and Purdue goes to the East. That would make the West and the East and lot more even as far as branding and strength.

However, if that happens the Big12 will no longer be a Power 5 conference and will drop to the group of 6. They can add 4 from AAC but it won't make any difference in football,.

With only 4 Power 4 conferences, the playoffs rules can change to be champions only. UND can finally join the ACC and they can take Kansas as the 16th school (ACC is all about MBB baby)

SEC and Pac-12 would stay put. Nothing else is worth it from the Big 12.

I am not saying that this would happen, but this makes sense to me.

I called Rutgers and Maryland to the Big Ten 2 years before it happen, because it just made the most sense business wise to me.

Lets see what happens but all of that being said, I would be more than happy staying at 14 forever.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Certainly a possibility, especially given ESPN meddling. I actually read from an Ok insider that ESPN already tried to get Ok and UT to the ACC.

There are problems, however, with UT alone to the ACC: (1) time zones; (2) I don't think Tx wants to be an island out there by themselves, and (3) the ACC's image has been tarnished with the cheating (Syracuse, Miami, UNC, Louisville), and diminished academic prestige (Louisville) and that stuff has meaning to University Presidents.

In conference realignment, generally, likes have attracted likes. The ACC has attracted elite private institutions (generally), and the PAC and BIG have attracted elite land-grant public schools. And the SEC is really just southern public schools where football is God. Under this premise I can more likely see UT go to either of these conferences before the ACC.

I also believe a more likely scenario is that the B12 stays intact. Just the best of the bad situations for UT, or that a cluster goes to the PAC like almost happened in 2010. Not a fan of reconciliations after things have fallen apart, but I could see this more likely happening.

But who knows.

Agree

By virtue of the fact that Texas and Oklahoma will not sign an extension of the GOR leads me to believe they will both be leaving by the time the Big 12 contract expires in 2025.

I believe Oklahoma does not trust Texas (Texas a&m,Missouri,Nebraska,Colorado) and is busy with their own game plan for departure.

I think around 2021 or so announcements will be made about the pending departures in 2025 or earlier if they can negotiate an earlier date.

I am by no means saying Texas is a certainty to go to the ACC versus the B1G,Pac or SEC (least likely IMO).

However, the concept is not proposterous as White Bus would have you believe.

In fact, when I was on your board repeatedly predicting the ACC Network would materialize WB was certain it would never happen. Who was correct.

ESPN has 100% of the Broadcasting Rights for the ACC, SEC and LHN.

ESPN has a financial incentive to protect and promote their product.

Expansion predictions will continue to be a topic for discussion, especially in the off season.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[WhiteBus]

realistically, UND is trapped in the ACC for a long time, so they are off the table. They are joining the Big Ten for Hockey and that is it for now.

If you believe the OU AD emails, Texas was looking to leave to the Pac-12 but was also looking at a package deal with UND to join the Big Ten but that was a long time ago and both never happen.

If ESPN kills the LHN, then Texas will be in play. The GOR ends the same year as the new Big Ten TV contract.

It should be noted that OU refuse to extend the GOR as well.

I can see Texas and OU going to the Big Ten. Joining the West and Purdue goes to the East. That would make the West and the East and lot more even as far as branding and strength.

However, if that happens the Big12 will no longer be a Power 5 conference and will drop to the group of 6. They can add 4 from AAC but it won't make any difference in football,.

With only 4 Power 4 conferences, the playoffs rules can change to be champions only. UND can finally join the ACC and they can take Kansas as the 16th school (ACC is all about MBB baby)

SEC and Pac-12 would stay put. Nothing else is worth it from the Big 12.

I am not saying that this would happen, but this makes sense to me.

I called Rutgers and Maryland to the Big Ten 2 years before it happen, because it just made the most sense business wise to me.

Lets see what happens but all of that being said, I would be more than happy staying at 14 forever.

ESPN has no out in the LHN deal. Texas isn't in play until the squeeze every last $ out of that 20 year contract.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

ESPN has no out in the LHN deal. Texas isn't in play until the squeeze every last $ out of that 20 year contract.

That is exactly my point.

With Texas and Notre Dame both joining the ACC Conference, the value/marketability of the ACC Network would be vastly improved.

ESPN would incorporate the LHN into the ACCN and ESPN will continue to give Texas(ACCN) the same amount of money(or propose more as an incentive for them to leave) that they would receive via LHN.

LHN would be gone (part of ACCN) but Texas could end up making more money and ESPN could stem their losses or actually make money.

As Rutgers fans are well aware, expansion is predicated on Networks and Conferences making more money.

Additionally, ESPN only has a 50% stake in the Big 12 Conference with Fox Sports having the other half.

ESPN could say they may not be interested in bidding on the Big 12 Conference when it is time to renew (or at a significantly reduced price). What would that do to the financial value of the Big 12.

Actually, such a situation happened recently to the B1G. Fox Sports offered the B1G a huge bid for 50% of the B1G contract. ESPN said they will not pay that amount for the other 50% and were willing to walk away. The B1G did not want to lose the TV exposure provided by ESPN and agreed to a reduced price.

If ESPN threatened to walk away from the B1G they would have no problem playing hard ball with the Big 12.

Lets see how it all plays out.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[WhiteBus]

That is exactly my point.

With Texas and Notre Dame both joining the ACC Conference, the value/marketability of the ACC Network would be vastly improved.

ESPN would incorporate the LHN into the ACCN and ESPN will continue to give Texas(ACCN) the same amount of money(or propose more as an incentive for them to leave) that they would receive via LHN.

LHN would be gone (part of ACCN) but Texas could end up making more money and ESPN could stem their losses or actually make money.

As Rutgers fans are well aware, expansion is predicated on Networks and Conferences making more money.

Lets see how it all plays out.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

There is no scenario where Texas makes more money than they currently are by the LHN and a full share of conference $.
Texas isn't going to a basketball conference.
Texas isnt giving up the control they have by being king of the Big XII.
ESPN has zero leverage that could force Texas to do anything.
ESPN doesn't have the money to take a gamble on such a stupid move. They are not going to double down on the disaster that is the LHN financially for them.
This Texas to the ACC tops Blitz's "Rutgers to the SEC" rant as the most clueless post ever in this board.

 

[jason21psu]

ESPN has no out in the LHN deal. Texas isn't in play until the squeeze every last $ out of that 20 year contract.

Something that would be possible, not probable, but possible, would be if Texas did kill the LNH and move to the B1G (or SEC) they could be granted full share from the start.

This would work if and only if the total money Texas would receive would be significantly more than the B12 and LHN package currently. Come 2024 when the B1G is projected to make $54m if Texas can only squeeze $45m from the B12 and LHN then they would have 9m reasons to kill the LHN and go B1G. Is that enough to surrender power, doubt it, but who knows what the landscape is going to look like 7 years from now.

And yes I get that adding Texas and team X would mean the pie would be split more ways so that would also mean that Texas and Team X added $108m to the B1G pool.

I don't think the PAC-12 is as desirable to Texas because East Coast bias. That's why the Cowboys are in the NFC east after all.

Selfishly I would love Texas and OU to be the 2 teams that takes the B1G to 16.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

There is no scenario where Texas makes more money than they currently are by the LHN and a full share of conference $.
Texas isn't going to a basketball conference.
Texas isnt giving up the control they have by being king of the Big XII.
ESPN has zero leverage that could force Texas to do anything.
ESPN doesn't have the money to take a gamble on such a stupid move. They are not going to double down on the disaster that is the LHN financially for them.
This Texas to the ACC tops Blitz's "Rutgers to the SEC" rant as the most clueless post ever in this board.

Texas could be king of a Big 12 conference which in the future (2025) is making significantly less money than all of the other conferences (happy Texas).

Once the LHN contract is gone (never to be renewed) Texas will then become part of a Big 12 Network which will never materialize (happy Texas).

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Something that would be possible, not probable, but possible, would be if Texas did kill the LNH and move to the B1G (or SEC) they could be granted full share from the start.

This would work if and only if the total money Texas would receive would be significantly more than the B12 and LHN package currently. Come 2024 when the B1G is projected to make $54m if Texas can only squeeze $45m from the B12 and LHN then they would have 9m reasons to kill the LHN and go B1G. Is that enough to surrender power, doubt it, but who knows what the landscape is going to look like 7 years from now.

And yes I get that adding Texas and team X would mean the pie would be split more ways so that would also mean that Texas and Team X added $108m to the B1G pool.

I don't think the PAC-12 is as desirable to Texas because East Coast bias. That's why the Cowboys are in the NFC east after all.

Selfishly I would love Texas and OU to be the 2 teams that takes the B1G to 16.

Another valid scenario of why Texas could leave the Big 12.

WhiteBus what do you think. Texas will not be king of the B1G but could make more money.

What will Oklahoma do if this happens.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[RUforlife]

I get what you all are saying, and a lot of it makes sense, but nobody in the last several posts mentioned Texas Tech and Oklahoma State and those programs are not going to be pushed into some Big 12/AAC leftover conference. None of the expansion models are realistic without those two programs landing in one of the P4 conferences, otherwise the Texas and Oklahoma expansion models are not realistic. Where those two schools land are huge political issues in Texas and Oklahoma, you can't just ignore the elephants in the room.

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

It's fun to see people think that Texas and OU function and operate independent of others in the b12...as if all they have to do is say "see ya and good luck!"[roll]

 

[Panthergrowl13]

I get what you all are saying, and a lot of it makes sense, but nobody in the last several posts mentioned Texas Tech and Oklahoma State and those programs are not going to be pushed into some Big 12/AAC leftover conference. None of the expansion models are realistic without those two programs landing in one of the P4 conferences, otherwise the Texas and Oklahoma expansion models are not realistic. Where those two schools land are huge political issues in Texas and Oklahoma, you can't just ignore the elephants in the room.

That is why those 4 going to the Pac 16 also is an option.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[jason21psu]

It's fun to see people think that Texas and OU function and operate independent of others in the b12...as if all they have to do is say "see ya and good luck!"[roll]

Except they pretty just did that by not expanding and not extending the GOR.

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

Except they pretty just did that by not expanding and not extending the GOR.

Such an action in no way (other than in fantasy island fan forums) means that the b12 is done...if you truly think that the likes of BU and TCU and TT and OSU and KSU and ISU will just sit bye while those two tell them to eff off, naïveté is all I can come up with...it will get ugly, political and they will band together and some form of the b12 will remain with Texas and ou uncomfortably together with the B8 and SWC remains...

 

[RutgHoops]

Commentary within...[laughing] why people continue to ignore what is sure to be political obstacles is puzzling...but keep coming up with unrealistic scenarios...sure feels like the offseason already!

Bingo.

Oklahoma gets almost $150MM/year in state appropriated funds. Texas about $350MM/year. Anyone who thinks those sources of funding aren't going to be used as leverage to keep Texas tethered to Baylor and Tech and OU tethered to OSU has not thought this thru.

You think Texas or Oklahoma is moving for an additional $10MM or $20MM/year in athletic revenue while pissing off the states that hand them 100's of millions of dollars? Seriously?

 

[r a c k]

Sorry, just wanted to bump a sentiment:
F Yukon.
Those self-righteous pricks on their dogbone website talking down about NE programs

 

[jason21psu]

Such an action in no way (other than in fantasy island fan forums) means that the b12 is done...if you truly think that the likes of BU and TCU and TT and OSU and KSU and ISU will just sit bye while those two tell them to eff off, naïveté is all I can come up with...it will get ugly, political and they will band together and some form of the b12 will remain with Texas and ou uncomfortably together with the B8 and SWC remains...

I've never said the B12 is done, I'm referencing UT and OU acting autonomously from the rest of the B12. If UT and/or OU chose to take their talents to another Conference they probably figure it out.

I don't know how much leverage, meaning annual state funding, UT gets from Texas or OU gets from Oklahoma, but that's the only way UT and OU are part of the B12 if they don't want to be. I mean it's not exactly worth it if the state slashes $50m annually to make an extra $9m for the athletic department.

EDIT: someone posted the state funding numbers so the answer is the states have quite a bit of leverage. In 7 years that may change though.

 

[Steve91562]

Commentary within...[laughing] why people continue to ignore what is sure to be political obstacles is puzzling...but keep coming up with unrealistic scenarios...sure feels like the offseason already!

Politics are there, and they play a role, obviously, but not as strong as maybe five years ago. Otherwise A&M wouldn't of gotten out of the B12. Clearly though, these politics are one of the reasons the B12 surviving in its' dysfunctional state is a real possibility.

 

[cicero grimes]

Bingo.

Oklahoma gets almost $150MM/year in state appropriated funds. Texas about $350MM/year. Anyone who thinks those sources of funding aren't going to be used as leverage to keep Texas tethered to Baylor and Tech and OU tethered to OSU has not thought this thru.

You think Texas or Oklahoma is moving for an additional $10MM or $20MM/year in athletic revenue while pissing off the states that hand them 100's of millions of dollars? Seriously?

This is a valid point. The one way out for OU and UT would be to try to negotiate an exit now and let the remainder of the conference expand. Politically they could possible untether because by leaving now they are still leaving Tech and State in a P5 conf with a TV deal that goes for 8 more years at decent money. The new B12 would have almost a decade to build its brand and try to keep its P5 status. If they try to leave closer to the GOR expiration, it will be seen as a death knell for the B12 and the pols will try to ensure that Texas and OK take State and Tech along for the ride.

 

[NJBorn]

WTF, did anyone see this from Iowa State:

"Because we want to add more schools to this league that are going to be like Rutgers or Boston College in their conferences? Which have no fans coming to the games, and they're getting outscored 170 to whatever it was. In Boston College's case, haven't won a game in two to three years in their conference. That totally dilutes your value."

What an ass.

 

[Queztastic]

That is why those 4 going to the Pac 16 also is an option.

If the TX / OK schools are joined at the hip, that is really the only option for them. That scenario is the only real option for the Pac 12. Also, while I am not an expert, its my understanding that the Pac 12 network, is really a bunch of mini networks so if you live in Arizona, your Pac 12 network is different than if you live in Washington. There may be a way to work the LHN in there as the regional network.

The real question is does Texas want to be in the Pac 12.

 

[AntiG]

Borrowed this from another board...

New logo for Big XII

However, they couldn't come to a super majority on taking the 12 out of the name in favor of BIGMWC.

 

[cicero grimes]

WTF, did anyone see this from Iowa State:

"Because we want to add more schools to this league that are going to be like Rutgers or Boston College in their conferences? Which have no fans coming to the games, and they're getting outscored 170 to whatever it was. In Boston College's case, haven't won a game in two to three years in their conference. That totally dilutes your value."

What an ass.

Cannot wait for this conf to go belly up and Iowa St is playing in the Sunbelt on Tuesday nights.

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

Borrowed this from another board...

I'm almost certain I know where you got this from!