Big Ten acknowledges mistakes in controversial finish to Rutgers’ loss to Ohio State

[fluoxetine]

@Greene Rice FIG

IUFanBorden on the main rivals board is a ref:

Me:
“@IUfanBorden
How big of a screw up do you think the end of the OSU RU game was? How tuned in generally are the officials to players going out of bounds and coming back in? What % of the time would you expect the officials to get that call correct?”

Response:
“It was really bad...You cannot miss that. Its not as if he was a little bit OOB---He was waaaaay OOB. In that particular situation, I'd expect that to get called 100% of the time. With that being said, it happens a lot---but not to that extent. Just a really, really bad miss.”

****Official B1G In-Season Thread****

I could see it going either way. He grabbed him but I don’t think it was obvious either way. Yep. Hit him across the stomach and then kept him from bringing his arm forward when he was trying to secure the ball. I've certainly seen it not called but it's not like there wasn't contact and the...

forums.rivals.com

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Hopefully all of them, because in this example Mag went out of bounds due to momentum rather than by choice, and reestablished himself inbounds before getting the pass?

Ahh...section B. Momentum.

Does open up a grey area about what momentum is.

I'd like to see how the heck the shooter ended up way out of bounds

 

[AZBlues]

Hopefully all of them, because in this example Mag went out of bounds due to momentum rather than by choice, and reestablished himself inbounds before getting the pass?

But maybe Green Rice Fig meant that Mag decided to use a play right out of the Ohio State playbook, and after catching the pass and throwing it to Paul, went and sat down on the RU bench... When Mag's defender lost sight of Mag and then ran to help defend against Paul's penetration, Mag jumped up off the bench and re-entered the court, receiving the pass and making the uncontested 3... In that case only a crew that included Scirotto or Ayers might allow the 3.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Hopefully Mag got a drink.

Watching the replay again it is good to know no one on RU made a mistake. Mag only left his man (who was off the court) because Caleb got slightly beat to the baseline.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

But maybe Green Rice Fig meant that Mag decided to use a play right out of the Ohio State playbook, and after catching the pass and throwing it to Paul, went and sat down on the RU bench... When Mag's defender lost sight of Mag and then ran to help defend against Paul's penetration, Mag jumped up off the bench and re-entered the court, receiving the pass and making the uncontested 3... In that case only a crew that included Scirotto or Ayers might allow the 3.

Ironically you spelled my name wrong.

Greene is after Courtney Greene. There is a Courtney Green and he is an official (who we will probably see tonight along with Kelly Pfieffer.)

Courtney Greene (safety)
Ray Rice (RB)
Anthony Farmer
JR Inman
Jaron Griffin

 

[kupuna133]

So….Simpson throws a cross court pass to Mag that is over his head. He catches it and throws it to Paul before going out of bounds. Cliff comes out and sets a pick and Paul penetrates and then dishes to Mag who makes the 3.

How many officiating crews count the 3?

I don’t even know what you are trying to say in this scenario. Are you saying Mag did not reestablish himself? Mag is allowed to go out of bounds making a basketball play and reestablish himself. The issue specifically we see in the OSU case and baseline run is the offensive player gaining an advantage running out of bounds without contact or being forced by defender.

 

[BillyC80]

The same reason why, hopefully, you don't see a guys zipper that is blatantly down. Although it is right in front of you you aren't really looking for it.

Except in this case it was more like the Ben Stiller zipper scene in There’s Something About Mary.

 

[robjknight]

Circle January 15 on your calendar and be at Jersey Mike!s when we get our revenge!!!

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I don’t even know what you are trying to say in this scenario. Are you saying Mag did not reestablish himself? Mag is allowed to go out of bounds making a basketball play and reestablish himself. The issue specifically we see in the OSU case and baseline run is the offensive player gaining an advantage running out of bounds without contact or being forced by defender.

didn't read the rule where it differentiates momentum.

I'd think where this gets violated is when a player clips the OOB line in the corner. At that point he can't receive the next pass.

I still think this play happens more often than you think and isnt seen.

The bottom line. There should be a review process for this type of thing under a minute or so.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Except in this case it was more like the Ben Stiller zipper scene in There’s Something About Mary.

Is there an Austin Powers scene with a zipper and dancing?

 

[kupuna133]

didn't read the rule where it differentiates momentum.

I'd think where this gets violated is when a player clips the OOB line in the corner. At that point he can't receive the next pass.

I still think this play happens more often than you think and isnt seen.

The bottom line. There should be a review process for this type of thing under a minute or so.

The rule in my understanding is not looking for the player that “clips” the line or goes out of bounds without intent (normal progress of the game). It is looking for the person that removes himself from the court intentionally. Like we saw in the OSU game.

 

[AZBlues]

Ironically you spelled my name wrong.

Greene is after Courtney Greene. There is a Courtney Green and he is an official (who we will probably see tonight along with Kelly Pfieffer.)

Courtney Greene (safety)
Ray Rice (RB)
Anthony Farmer
JR Inman
Jaron Griffin

Oh shoot... Sorry. And thanks for the clarification.. I've always wondered what the significance of your forum moniker was... I'd honestly wondered if it had to do with an Asian food of some type.. 🥴

I've mentioned Courtney Green the ref several times yesterday and today in posts, because he was the ref in the Nebraska-Purdue game who made the questionable foul call during crunch time.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Wouldn’t it be more gain an advantage?

It was an obvious OSU gained an advantage because if he was in the court Mag would have been in an even better position as a help denfender.

I don’t know if the shooter intentionally went out of bounds. I doubt he thought let’s trick Rutgers by going out of bounds. He wanted to be right of the dribbler and ended up being OB because Caleb forced him baseline.

 

[kupuna133]

Wouldn’t it be more gain an advantage?

It was an obvious OSU gained an advantage because if he was in the court Mag would have been in an even better position as a help denfender.

I don’t know if the shooter intentionally went out of bounds. I doubt he thought let’s trick Rutgers by going out of bounds. He wanted to be right of the dribbler and ended up being OB because Caleb forced him baseline.

He went out of bounds outside of normal play. He was out of bounds for multiple steps for multiple seconds. In most arenas he would be in the front row how far he was out of bounds.

Why do you think he was trying to trick anyone? I can’t imagine this is something that they drew up to trick someone. Way too many moving parts for this to be a designed play. Let’s call it what it is. He is a player with very little court awareness that established himself out of bounds. Therefore he is a player that is not allowed to be first touch once he establishes himself inbounds.

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

Oh shoot... Sorry. And thanks for the clarification.. I've always wondered what the significance of your forum moniker was... I'd honestly wondered if it had to do with an Asian food of some type.. 🥴

I've mentioned Courtney Green the ref several times yesterday and today in posts, because he was the ref in the Nebraska-Purdue game who made the questionable foul call during crunch time.

and Ray Rice and Farmer/Inman/Griffin from basketball if you haven't figured out that part. I think he told me a few years ago on here so I can spill the beans. :)

 

[AZBlues]

and Ray Rice and Farmer/Inman/Griffin from basketball if you haven't figured out that part. I think he told me a few years ago on here so I can spill the beans. :)

And now I have even more respect for him, since I now know that his moniker is in honor of certain RU players and not based on some exotic vegan side dish or dessert. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.....)

 

[G- RUnit]

drifted out of bounds.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Kapuana,

Because you said intent. Both of us agree he didn’t do it on purpose. He just ended up out of bounds because he wanted to be the right of the ball handler

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

And now I have even more respect for him, since I now know that his moniker is in honor of certain RU players and not based on some exotic vegan side dish or dessert. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.....)

Inman did end up authoring the “steak of turmoil”.

Someone needs to dig up that great manifesto. It has to be in the archives somewhere.

He did hit the game winner against SHU as a senior if memory serves me correct.

@bac2therac ?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

JR Inman’s Interesting Hello From Japan… | Rush The Court

In the wake of Jerry Wainwright's firing at DePaul, the Big East hot seat formally…

rushthecourt.net

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I feel bad for my fellow teammates that are still thier cause it is about to get really ugly.I don’t want to put all of Fred’s buisness out thier. I’m sure youll read about it in the Newspapers within the next couple of weeks but I just want the public to know one thing. “It took 3 years for Fred Hill to cook his steak of turmoil but the check for the dinner is coming due”

 

[kupuna133]

Kapuana,

Because you said intent. Both of us agree he didn’t do it on purpose. He just ended up out of bounds because he wanted to be the right of the ball handler

The OSU player has very little court awareness. He intended to create a better passing lane. His intent lead him out of bounds. Don’t confuse what I am saying. It was not a designed play. But the player was “intentionally” out of bounds. He made no effort to immediately get back in bounds. Rather he spaced away from the ball to create a passing lane for multiple seconds. As I said earlier. If he was in a different arena he would have made contact with the scorers table or have been in the lap of a spectator. He was way out of bounds.

 

[RUChoppin]

didn't read the rule where it differentiates momentum.

I'd think where this gets violated is when a player clips the OOB line in the corner. At that point he can't receive the next pass.

I still think this play happens more often than you think and isnt seen.

The bottom line. There should be a review process for this type of thing under a minute or so.

My guess is the intent of the rule is to prevent exactly what happened - a player leaving the field of play to get advantage, then returning to get the ball. In this case, he "drifted" off the court (to use the B1G parlance) and stayed in his ball handler's eyeline, rather than being obscured completely by Mag's body.

The most likely thing this was intended to prevent was probably under the basket - where a player runs out of bounds to get around traffic in the paint, only to receive a pass and score from the other side of the rim.

Wholly apart from the whole "he can't be the first to touch the ball" rule, though, is that you are inbounds/out of bounds based on where your feet were when you left the ground - not where you landed. When he jumped to catch the ball, his one foot was on the sideline, even though he landed with both feet inbounds.

This was a situation where the refs just weren't paying attention to the "out of bounds" section of the rulebook at all for the last 5 seconds and were only concerned about contact and shot clock.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

This was a situation where the refs just weren't paying attention to the "out of bounds" section of the rulebook at all for the last 5 seconds and were only concerned about contact and shot clock.

They should be looking at everything, but getting the contact/no contact has all of their attention.

I still think the number of officiating crews getting this right is closer to 50% than it is 90%. Incorrectly, it just isn't something that ever happens so it wasn't looked at.

 

[knights1212]

One guy, I think on facebook stated that the refs admitted & apologized for their mistakes. I doubt that happened and doubt that will ever occur but they should have to make a public statement about how they blew the game for us. I hope this loss does not keep us from making the NCAA but even if we do make it, it could affect the seed we get. Personally I cannot wait for our game against Ohio State at our house on January 15. I hope we can make a statement in that game. Cliff must play like he is capable for the entire game. I know our fans will be super psyched but we need to be ready for SHU plus every other game with no let downs as each game is important moving forward.

 

[RUChoppin]

They should be looking at everything, but getting the contact/no contact has all of their attention.

I still think the number of officiating crews getting this right is closer to 50% than it is 90%. Incorrectly, it just isn't something that ever happens so it wasn't looked at.

The "came in from out of bounds in the last second to hit a game winner" rarely happens - but during games, they get this sort of thing right all the time. The whole "caught the ball before being established" thing was called against Xavier Johnson coming across the timeline vs. Indiana the game before OSU, for example.

It's pretty rare for players to completely lose track of where they are and set up way out of bounds during a play, though.... especially not when that player is a senior with 100 college games under his belt.

 

[Plum Street]

Just so it's clear, only one of the three refs who officiated our game also did the Nebraska-Purdue game. Larry Scirotto did both games. The other two refs in the Nebraska game were Courtney Green and John Floyd. (Roger Ayers and Kip Kissinger were the other 2 officials in the RU-Ohio State game). And Scirotto had nothing to do with the questionable foul call on C.J. Wilcher. Courtney Green made the foul call.

But the BIG released a statement Friday that the refs were going to be educated . Then less than 24 hours later Scirotto is doing another game. I doubt there was much education being done . The BIG lied !

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The "came in from out of bounds in the last second to hit a game winner" rarely happens - but during games, they get this sort of thing right all the time. The whole "caught the ball before being established" thing was called against Xavier Johnson coming across the timeline vs. Indiana the game before OSU, for example.

It's pretty rare for players to completely lose track of where they are and set up way out of bounds during a play, though.... especially not when that player is a senior with 100 college games under his belt.

the timeline plays are going to occur once in every 5 games or so. As you say what we saw was a one in a million call.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

But the BIG released a statement Friday that the refs were going to be educated . Then less than 24 hours later Scirotto is doing another game. I doubt there was much education being done . The BIG lied !

I am sure all officials in the B1G got a memo
1. Pay attention off the ball for this type of thing
2. The actual rule, just in case an official didn't know/remember

Scirotto had a bad possession. He should be judged by his full body of work and not this possession. If his full body of work is suspect then maybe this is a straw that breaks the camels back.

 

[RUChoppin]

the timeline plays are going to occur once in every 5 games or so. As you say what we saw was a one in a million call.

Hardly one in a million - and it's clear the refs are aware of the "establish position" rule at the very least (even if they weren't 100% clear on the voluntary/momentum distinction for being out of bounds). Uncommon, sure - but there are plenty of uncommon calls that refs get right all the time.

It sucks that we were the "learning opportunity" for the refs, but at this point it is what it is. Ref screwed up; we paid the price. Some other team will reap the benefit of this lesson at some point in the future.

If nothing else, the official acknowledgement of the error might actually result in improved officiating? The vast majority of officiating screw ups aren't acknowledged publicly at all, and any comment on them by fans is shouted down by the peanut gallery.

 

[motorb54]

Still don't understand why Mag left the eventual shooter.

 

[Degaz-RU]

Still don't understand why Mag left the eventual shooter.

Bumping this thread two weeks later is like coal in our stockings…

 

[robjknight]

They review other plays in the last 2 minutes of the game that have less consequences. Hard to believe that one this important which determines the outcome of the game can’t be reviewed. With this win and a win against SHU or Temple, RU would be in top 15

 

[Scangg]

Still don't understand why Mag left the eventual shooter.

Bc he was out of bounds

 

[wheezer]

Still don't understand why Mag left the eventual shooter.

because we were two points up, and had to protect a shorter shot also....If he came way out, another player could have gotten a pass, lets say, at the top of the key, open for an uncontested short shot

Had we hit the missed free throw, then you know they have to go for three, and Mag comes way out

 

[needmorecowbell]

Still don't understand why Mag left the eventual shooter.

Stop the ball first.

 

[fluoxetine]

The fact that @Greene Rice FIG thinks the officials only get this right ~50% of the time when an actual college basketball ref says it was an egregious missed call and should be correct ~100% of the time is baffling to me.

 

[fluoxetine]

They review other plays in the last 2 minutes of the game that have less consequences. Hard to believe that one this important which determines the outcome of the game can’t be reviewed. With this win and a win against SHU or Temple, RU would be in top 15

If we were undefeated we would be in the top 5!

 

[ClassOf02]

Bumping this thread on Christmas morning is downright rude. Even the Grinch wouldn’t do that.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The fact that @Greene Rice FIG thinks the officials only get this right ~50% of the time when an actual college basketball ref says it was an egregious missed call and should be correct ~100% of the time is baffling to me.

Just because it was an egregious missed call doesn’t mean 1/2 refs wouldn’t miss it.

It’s just something refs look for.