But there is no such thing as "overrule", right (unless things have changed in the past decade+)? He's coming in and giving him information (whether solicited or unsolicited), and it's still C's job to make the final call, right? After that initial call is made, he's the only one that can change it (again, unless the mechanics have changed since I last did basketball long ago).
Camden - Manasquan
- Thread starter S_Janowski
- Start date
Watch the video and tell me that he wasn’t over ruled. Post center court huddle, the trail ref was the ref that signaled the shot was no good in the video.
Yea agreed there. Nothing they can or should do imo. Was squan trying to score off their delay or did not look to score at all. A delay with intent to score can be very effective in these situations. Just curious how they weren’t able to score at all.
In the videos, the ref that made the final call was the ref that made the initial call...it was the trail ref on the table side that was vocal about the basket being no good, but it's not his call in the end, he can't "overrule" (again, unless something has changed since the last time I did a basketball game, which I now realize was like 19 years ago), and he didn't made an actual call.
Agreed it was not the trail refs call to make but he was the one that did convinced in the huddle after the buzzer (I say over ruled) the C.
But It was not the same ref that signaled the change in call to the crowd. C was emphatic with the call real time. It was the trail that made the call after the huddle.
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This guy nailed it. I just went to the Paul VI vs. Union Catholic game (boys) and observed the a couple of the things he called out.
- Paul VI boys and girls played on the same afternoon in different locations so students, administration, alums had to choose which game to attend.
- They charged separate admission between the two games scheduled and they had to “clear” the gym out after the 1st game and before the next game started. Fans were lined up out the door to get into the 2nd game and if you bought admission to both games you had to leave the gym and come back in.
Also - why is Union Catholic playing Paul VI in the “south” final. Last I checked Union Catholic is in North Jersey.
That organization is a clown show.
The video I saw, it was C that walked away, put the whistle back in his mouth, blew it, and signaled to the table that the basket was no good. I'll need to look for it again.
edit - here is the video...go to about 52 seconds...
I watched the game the score was like 34-20 at half. Manasquan couldn't be stopped there offense was crisp shared the ball. One of there kids had like 7 3s. Defensively they played a very good 2 -3 zone. They were clearly playing the clock all 4th. They were doing a good job of playing the clock but jt messed up there rhythm. Like I said before it's not like Camden woke up it was the slowest 10 point comeback ever. It took camden free throws with 5 seconds left to complete the comeback lol There best player Kentucky commit Billy Richmond had the flu and had zero energy. With about 10 seconds left Manasquan up 1 got the ball stolen trying to inbound the ball Camden player got fouled after the steal going up for the lay up. He sinks both free throws they go up 1 and then the final play happened. Once again bad call to end the game but I don't feel sorry they didn't put Camden away. Camden had zero fight Manasquan literally let back in the game. It's not like Camden woke up and went on crazy 10 nothing run in 2 mins early in the 4th. It didn't even feel like the momentum shifted because it's not like Camden started playing great out of nowhere. If Manasquan scored just 6 points in 4th quarter game was over the game felt more like a 20 point lead. It was more like oh shit u look up Camden is only down 4 with 2 mins they can really win this.
How was it not correct? Who blew the whistle and signaled to the table the final call?
Nice catch. I stand corrected. I saw the floor angle with the trail ref relaying the call to the Manasquan bench.
But I do think that the trail ref influenced the call
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This was not .1 or .2 with finger tip on a jump shot
.6 to .8 on the release …..ball is in net at zero
Also on those really close plays everyone on defense is waving no good waving arms like crazy. That didn’t happen.
.6 to .8 on the release …..ball is in net at zero
Also on those really close plays everyone on defense is waving no good waving arms like crazy. That didn’t happen.
yes, the guy that walked to table at the end is the same guy who made the initial emphatic call that it was good.
if you watch the video of the ref discussion it's pretty clear the other guy made the change. (guy gesturing with his hands on the right here)
No doubt…I just wouldn’t absolve C and say he was “overruled”. That’s still his call in the end.
Why is an NJSIAA administrator in that huddle with the officials. Hmm…also is a south jersey native. Hmm…
Correct that he had a lot of input and might have convinced him, but he can’t “change” the call…it’s up to the other ref to take his info and use it.
He’s certainly not “in the huddle”…he’s an arms length away doing what Id hope any site administraton would do to keep everyone away and see what’s happening. Did he have any words with them at all?
He had great conviction with that initial call...I'd love to be a fly on the wall in their postgame to hear the conversation (then again, once they saw the video, I'm sure they were devastated). Was he not sure about it, but was trying to sell the initial call? Or, was the trail just so sure that he changed his mind?
There are mistakes and bad plays (and good) all game.
That doesn’t negate that the officials screwed this up bigtime and the win went to the losing team.
It’s crap.
He absolutely did. Surprising he wilted. Conviction to stand up for his original call. From the body language of the video the trail ref forced his will on the C.
I don’t envy their situation. But there needs to be better tools for replay. Doesn’t have to be available at all regular season games. But at the state playoff games that are being televised. It should be made available.
More people? It’s national news. I had a friend in Washington state reach out because he knows I live in the area.
Officials are human mistakes happen you never leave the game in a ref hands. Being very honest Camden did nothing to win that game besides steal the ball down 1 with 10 seconds left. Other then that there were sleep walking the whole game. Manasquan took the foot off the gas. Manasquan would hold the ball for 2 mins miss a shot and Camden would get the ball find a way to barely score. Camden was still struggling the whole time lol like I said it's not like u felt a real momentum switch it was more of Manasquan doing to much clock watching. Camden didnt go on a crazy run they made 5 shots and 8 mins lol the game felt like a 20 point lead the game didn't feel close until the end.
Replay is tough because of the limitations on the game feed…all of the good videos we got were via cell phones. The clock on the NISIAA feed was delayed a bit if you synch up with the other views of the play, so can’t rely on it. Just sucks all around.
Yea talking about a replay provided by television production crew. Not some bad handheld camcorder feed run by NJSIAA
Nah… it’s gotten minimal pub… if the reverse had happened it would have created a National outcry. The problem was caused by piss poor decision makers and not the teams playing.
NY post front page. CBS,NBC sports. Multiple national podcasts. Barstool minimum 5 blogs.
It’s national.
It's everywhere. I even have women friends on FB who know nothing about sports posting about this...
I fail to see why it would have received any more or less coverage if the teams were reversed. It got a pretty wide amount of coverage, as you’d expect.
Let me get this right… these lady friends of yours know nothing about sports but… they are up on this screw job.?
Some real shady stuff
A thorough investigation by a 3rd party needs to be made into these 3 officials
A thorough investigation by a 3rd party needs to be made into these 3 officials
Perception of Camden and it’s storied basketball history would have made it appear that they were somehow screwed over . Manasquan was screwed but really nothing and nobody in our NJ state athletic Authority will admit the call was totally wrong... should not have been changed and the video of the scoreboard and basket is undeniable recorded fact.
It wasn’t even close
The official that overturned should be banned for life to work high school games.
The other two should be suspended a year
If this huge backlash in the news ( which several claim) is happening maybe they should take that win back and award Manasquan the game IT actually won ? Those 3 clowns should never be allowed into a high school gym in NJ.
Yea, and that’s that many more games that won’t be covered, freshman games getting cancelled because there are no officials, guys moving up to varsity games that aren’t ready for it, etc (plus drive even more away). Who wins in that scenario?
There is a huge officiating shortage right now, and it’s on the verge of a crisis…the way that people perceive (and treat) officials only makes it worse.
