Can someone recap the court club meeting?

[BKIn118]

I did move the time frame up 15 minutes to allow Pat to speak at all. I figured that was best rather than not have a chance for our members who attended to see him at all. It wasn't until he got there that I was told why...

Nothing sinister at all

 

[RocktheRac]

Please.... give BK a break.He has done a tremendous job rounding up guests to speak. You guys should get a job on X files.

 

[ScarletLongIsland]

This board is so comical at times. I have never seen people dissect and read so much into every little statement lol

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If Hobbs made a commitment to speak at the Court Club he has to honor it.

If there was a big donor to meet with it should have been done before or after the meeting.

Pat Hobbs just told those at the meeting what he thinks about you.

 

[ScarletLongIsland]

If you have ever seen Johnson in action, you would know what EJ is referring to....he's a key addition here next year...been saying this since day 1

 

[RUskoolie]

Two and three are total horse bleep.

I have heard the same thing Shill. It makes sense...high ranked kid comes to RU because there is lots of PT for him. Comes on a visit and sees 2 guards that are better than him and realizes he won't play early here. He decommitted a few weeks after he visited here. I don't think its a coincidence.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I have heard the same thing Shill. It makes sense...high ranked kid comes to RU because there is lots of PT for him. Comes on a visit and sees 2 guards that are better than him and realizes he won't play early here. He decommitted a few weeks after he visited here. I don't think its a coincidence.

I HIGHLY doubt this is true. What 18 year old kid doesn't think he is better than he really is? For that matter, what 44 year old thinks that way too?

I think it is VERY unlikely Parker looked at Johnson and thought to himself ....wow that guy is better than me.

If any of this is true Nigel Johnson must have improved a TON over the past 10 months. kansas state was 15-17. They had a lot of underclassmen guards. He scored 87 points in 18 conference games.

 

[ru66]

yeah -I heard that and it's no different than what I have said before but it seems there may be many on here that haven't yet done their part, be it $5000 or $200--when people talk about holding back on giving for ANY reason , it's a sad commentary especially from those that constantly clamor for progress

 

[Section114]

If Hobbs made a commitment to speak at the Court Club he has to honor it.

If there was a big donor to meet with it should have been done before or after the meeting.

Pat Hobbs just told those at the meeting what he thinks about you.

If a potential big donor wants to meet, you do so...WHEN AND WHERE they want! Period!

 

[ru66]

and by the way -he did speak didn't he???

 

[bac2therac]

I HIGHLY doubt this is true. What 18 year old kid doesn't think he is better than he really is? For that matter, what 44 year old thinks that way too?

I think it is VERY unlikely Parker looked at Johnson and thought to himself ....wow that guy is better than me.

If any of this is true Nigel Johnson must have improved a TON over the past 10 months. kansas state was 15-17. They had a lot of underclassmen guards. He scored 87 points in 18 conference games.

and only at Rutgers...we must be the only school where kids don't come because we have TOO MUCH talent here...if only the top 10 schools in the country had this problem

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If a potential big donor wants to meet, you do so...WHEN AND WHERE they want! Period!

You tell the person you have a commitment and you will happily meet them before or after. I would hope any potential donor would want Hobbs to keep his commitment.

How do you know there wasn't a big donor in the audience at the Court Club?

 

[Vegas pj]

As this was most likely my final meeting as President of the Court Club..

Wow! As an outsider all I can say is you will be missed. Can't imagine anyone else willing to devote the time and energy to one's alma mater like you have over the years.

 

[Section114]

You tell the person you have a commitment and you will happily meet them before or after. I would hope any potential donor would want Hobbs to keep his commitment.

How do you know there wasn't a big donor in the audience at the Court Club?

You don't know, but he needs to make hard decisions everyday. If he didn't go and it got out he "blew off" a potential big donor he would be crucified. He made the decision he believed was in the overall best interests of RU athletics.

 

[RocktheRac]

You tell the person you have a commitment and you will happily meet them before or after. I would hope any potential donor would want Hobbs to keep his commitment.

How do you know there wasn't a big donor in the audience at the Court Club?

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: nah.... didn't see any in this group.

 

[RU_DIO]

If Hobbs made a commitment to speak at the Court Club he has to honor it.

If there was a big donor to meet with it should have been done before or after the meeting.

Pat Hobbs just told those at the meeting what he thinks about you.

When I bartend, my $100 tippers get most of my attention when they're in. The $5 tippers get good service, but I stop everything for the $100 regular.

Pat Hobbs isn't a fool.

 

[eedouble]

I HIGHLY doubt this is true. What 18 year old kid doesn't think he is better than he really is? For that matter, what 44 year old thinks that way too?

I think it is VERY unlikely Parker looked at Johnson and thought to himself ....wow that guy is better than me.

If any of this is true Nigel Johnson must have improved a TON over the past 10 months. kansas state was 15-17. They had a lot of underclassmen guards. He scored 87 points in 18 conference games.

I have a feeling some of this is EJ's recollection of Nigel on the AAU circuit. In response to a question on Goode and other prospects, EJ himself said that you never know how someone will respond when they move up to another level. No doubt Nigel is a very good player, but he didnt really prove himself at K State, and BIG competition will be even better. I think the more accurate response is that Johnson HAS THE TOOLS to be better than Corey.

 

[Mr_Twister]

I have a feeling some of this is EJ's recollection of Nigel on the AAU circuit. In response to a question on Goode and other prospects, EJ himself said that you never know how someone will respond when they move up to another level. No doubt Nigel is a very good player, but he didnt really prove himself at K State, and BIG competition will be even better. I think the more accurate response is that Johnson HAS THE TOOLS to be better than Corey.

You may want to correct your next to last sentence. Sagarin's conference ratings go like this ... #1 Big 12, #2 Atlantic Coast, #3 PAC 12, #4 Big Ten, #5 Big East, #6 SEC, ...

 

[PiscatawayMike]

Although he couldn't say his name because he hasn't signed his LOI yet, EJ eluded to the fact that Thiam has grown two inches, paraphrasing, Jordan said, "One of the guys we have coming in next year was 6-8 when he was here in September. He's was measured at 6-10 on his last visit."

 

[RUJMM78]

I have heard the same thing Shill. It makes sense...high ranked kid comes to RU because there is lots of PT for him. Comes on a visit and sees 2 guards that are better than him and realizes he won't play early here. He decommitted a few weeks after he visited here. I don't think its a coincidence.

How does that logic work at elite schools like Duke where every player is a high school all American?They clearly aren't afraid of competition.

 

[RU MAN]

Maybe the big time donor is assisting Hobbs in his final decision for the men's AND the women's BB jobs. Hmmmm... :rolleyes:

 

[Local Shill]

How does that logic work at elite schools like Duke where every player is a high school all American?They clearly aren't afraid of competition.

Exactly. I have a hard time believing our guards are better than Tennessee's guards.

 

[Mr Magoo]

Although he couldn't say his name because he hasn't signed his LOI yet, EJ eluded to the fact that Thiam has grown two inches, paraphrasing, Jordan said, "One of the guys we have coming in next year was 6-8 when he was here in September. He's was measured at 6-10 on his last visit."

Hope he stops growing now or we'll never see him here.

 

[jellyman]

I HIGHLY doubt this is true. What 18 year old kid doesn't think he is better than he really is? For that matter, what 44 year old thinks that way too?

I think it is VERY unlikely Parker looked at Johnson and thought to himself ....wow that guy is better than me.

If any of this is true Nigel Johnson must have improved a TON over the past 10 months. kansas state was 15-17. They had a lot of underclassmen guards. He scored 87 points in 18 conference games.

It does not seem likely (possible, but not likely), that an 18-year-old kid would look at a red shirt kid in practice and decide he is never getting playing time.

However, though we do not know for sure about Nigel Johnson, saying he scored 87 points in 18 conference games does not tell the story.

Here are some of the facts that color that simple stat of 87 points in 18 conference games:

1) KSU was a team in complete turmoil in Johnson's Soph season - players getting strange playing time, players suspended at different times, players hurt also (remind you of some team - I do notice the irony).

2) Johnson was getting 15-20 minutes per game early in the season. Then, in late December, his playing time started to rise. And on January 3 he started for the 1st time. Then he got fewer than 10 minutes in each of the next 3 games. Then he got 15-20 minutes in each of the next 2-3 games. Then 4 minutes in the next game.

3) Johnson, as pointed out above, got incredibly inconsistent playing time, throughout the season. In games in which he got 20 minutes of playing time or more, his stats looked like this: 13 games, averaged 26 minutes per game in those 13 games in which he got 20 minutes or more of time, 121 points - 9.3 points per game, 38-84 FG (45%), 14-38 3-point FG (37%), 32-45 FT (71%).

4) In just the last 9 games, of which Johnson started 5, all Big 12 games, Johnson averaged 22.5 minutes per games, 8.2 points per game, 25-54 FG (46%), 8-21 3-point FG (38%), 16-23 FT (70%). In those 9 games, the last 9 games of the year, Johnson scored 74 of his 87 conference points. When given a consistent opportunity, though he did have games where he did little, he also produced more.

Better than Sanders? It does not appear so. Productive and an HUGE improvement over Daniels? Absolutely. Better than Mike Williams? Maybe, maybe not. Is it possible he could jump to a double digit scorer, and provide a much better 3-point threat than what RU currently has? Absolutely. Could he also improve to be even better than that? Sure he could - the leap to a 12-13 ppg scorer from 9 ppg scorer (when he gets 25+ minutes per game) is not THAT great a leap.

 

[RUskoolie]

How does that logic work at elite schools like Duke where every player is a high school all American?They clearly aren't afraid of competition.

All Americans? No. A typical recruit? Yes.

Stop thinking of athletes as robots. They are humans, they have emotion, which includes the capacity to decide there is too much competition for their liking. Think about it...Duke has 1 million things to sell to a hoops player if they can't play as a frosh. Outside of playing time, we don't have much to sell. Would Corey Sanders come here if he saw Corey Sanders and a player better than Corey practicing together last year? It's not far fetched if you guys take off your "Fire EJ at all costs" glasses.

 

[ScarletRunner]

All Americans? No. A typical recruit? Yes.

Stop thinking of athletes as robots. They are humans, they have emotion, which includes the capacity to decide there is too much competition for their liking. Think about it...Duke has 1 million things to sell to a hoops player if they can't play as a frosh. Outside of playing time, we don't have much to sell. Would Corey Sanders come here if he saw Corey Sanders and a player better than Corey practicing together last year? It's not far fetched if you guys take off your "Fire EJ at all costs" glasses.

I don't claim to have any idea as to why Parker bailed... Lord knows there are lots of of reasons for basketball players with options not to sign to play with RU.

But I do think the issue of playing time at RU is different than the playing time issue at Duke or elite schools. Higher-level recruits who would be willing to take a flyer on RU may be very sensitive about playing time; Those same athletes might be OK to spend time in a back-up role on an elite school because of a combination of other factors (coaching, tradition, facilities, etc.).

 

[jtung230]

You tell the person you have a commitment and you will happily meet them before or after. I would hope any potential donor would want Hobbs to keep his commitment.

How do you know there wasn't a big donor in the audience at the Court Club?

I think he knows because he actually gets to see the donation levels from everyone. Big donors probably got a personal call from Hobbs already.

 

[ScarletLongIsland]

4) In just the last 9 games, of which Johnson started 5, all Big 12 games, Johnson averaged 22.5 minutes per games, 8.2 points per game, 25-54 FG (46%), 8-21 3-point FG (38%), 16-23 FT (70%). In those 9 games, the last 9 games of the year, Johnson scored 74 of his 87 conference points. When given a consistent opportunity, though he did have games where he did little, he also produced more.

Great post Jelly. And to add to your point #4, during those last 9 games, he scored 20 against #8 Kansas, 17 against #12 Iowa State, 14 against #21 West Virginia and 10 against #25 Texas.

 

[motel00]

As to Nigel Johnson, while there is certainly reason to be skeptical about statements regarding his great success in practice, in this case we do have a body of work and there is certainly reason to think he will be a big contributor next season.

 

[soundcrib]

How are Corey and Nigel going to co-exist on the court together? Corey needs the ball in his hands so he can work. If one was backing up the other, OK. But it looks like they'll both be on the court at the same time. EJ probably starts Willams also, though I'd have him off the bench, even as a Junior. That's 3 short guys starting on a team that lacks size and shooting.

 

[RUChoppin]

It does not seem likely (possible, but not likely), that an 18-year-old kid would look at a red shirt kid in practice and decide he is never getting playing time.

However, though we do not know for sure about Nigel Johnson, saying he scored 87 points in 18 conference games does not tell the story.

Here are some of the facts that color that simple stat of 87 points in 18 conference games:

1) KSU was a team in complete turmoil in Johnson's Soph season - players getting strange playing time, players suspended at different times, players hurt also (remind you of some team - I do notice the irony).

2) Johnson was getting 15-20 minutes per game early in the season. Then, in late December, his playing time started to rise. And on January 3 he started for the 1st time. Then he got fewer than 10 minutes in each of the next 3 games. Then he got 15-20 minutes in each of the next 2-3 games. Then 4 minutes in the next game.

3) Johnson, as pointed out above, got incredibly inconsistent playing time, throughout the season. In games in which he got 20 minutes of playing time or more, his stats looked like this: 13 games, averaged 26 minutes per game in those 13 games in which he got 20 minutes or more of time, 121 points - 9.3 points per game, 38-84 FG (45%), 14-38 3-point FG (37%), 32-45 FT (71%).

4) In just the last 9 games, of which Johnson started 5, all Big 12 games, Johnson averaged 22.5 minutes per games, 8.2 points per game, 25-54 FG (46%), 8-21 3-point FG (38%), 16-23 FT (70%). In those 9 games, the last 9 games of the year, Johnson scored 74 of his 87 conference points. When given a consistent opportunity, though he did have games where he did little, he also produced more.

Better than Sanders? It does not appear so. Productive and an HUGE improvement over Daniels? Absolutely. Better than Mike Williams? Maybe, maybe not. Is it possible he could jump to a double digit scorer, and provide a much better 3-point threat than what RU currently has? Absolutely. Could he also improve to be even better than that? Sure he could - the leap to a 12-13 ppg scorer from 9 ppg scorer (when he gets 25+ minutes per game) is not THAT great a leap.

Nice breakdown - I hadn't done a game by game deep dive.

- Seems he came in hot and played a lot of minutes the first two games (averaged 24.5 min, 16 ppg)... then had a bad game (25 min, 0-5, 0-4 3P, 2pts... against Long Beach State?) and saw his time cut back.
- Took a look at the kenpom rankings of the teams last year, and those last 9 games where he played very well were against the teeth of the conference including 7 games against teams ranked 26th or better.

Interesting thing about the kenpom ratings. Kansas State played a group of top teams (13 games against teams in the Top 26), then a group of middle pack teams (10 games ranked 39-89), and a group of weaker teams (9 games ranked 142-339). Nigel actually performed the best against the best competition.

Against the Top group (kenpom 2-26): 18.3 min, 6.5 pts, (29-61) 47.5% FG, (10-23) 43.5% 3P, 2.1 RB, 1 ast, 0.6 stl, 0.8 TO
Against the Mid group (kenpom 39-89): 17.4 min, 3.0 pts, (7-31) 22.6% FG, (2-16) 12.5% 3P, 1.7 RB, 0.8 ast, 0.8 stl, 1.1 TO
Against the Low group (kenpom 142-339): 17.8 min, 5.7 pts, (15-26) 41.2% FG, (8-20) 40.0% 3P, 0.4 RB, 2.3 ast, 1.6 stl, 0.8 TO

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

As to Nigel Johnson, while there is certainly reason to be skeptical about statements regarding his great success in practice, in this case we do have a body of work and there is certainly reason to think he will be a big contributor next season.

No doubt...the fact that he was in the mix and received playing time and actually had big games against good opponents tells us something.

I don't think there is a doubt he will be a 20+ MPG guy for us and probably will be a double digit scorer. the 2 major questions....will he defend and can he shoot. Given his minutes and the raw 3 point shooting data we have, albeit low sample size, i am a skeptic.

 

[RU85inFla]

Exactly. I have a hard time believing our guards are better than Tennessee's guards.

You don't get it. He knew he was gonna ride the pine at both places so he chose the place that had air conditioning.

 

[goru7]

I HIGHLY doubt this is true. What 18 year old kid doesn't think he is better than he really is? For that matter, what 44 year old thinks that way too?

I think it is VERY unlikely Parker looked at Johnson and thought to himself ....wow that guy is better than me.

If any of this is true Nigel Johnson must have improved a TON over the past 10 months. kansas state was 15-17. They had a lot of underclassmen guards. He scored 87 points in 18 conference games.

See Greene, the problem with your thought process and the idiotic posts of Shill, is that you do not believe anyone gets better as they get older. At most of the top programs that have 4 year guys, like Wisconsin, Wichita State, to just name a few, improvement from frosh, to sophomore, to junior, to senior increases a little more every year. Look at Frank Kaminsky's progress. Why do you you think the mid majors that have junior ans senior laden teams make a run or are dangerous in the tournament.?
The skepticism of you and the other usual posters gets old. Multiple people have told you about Nigel and you refuse to believe it. Fine! You are a wait until we see first guy. But don't discredit the kid or doubt he got better over the last year just to be another negative post. The news he has gotten better and is real good should be positive news, since we have not had multi level good guards since Carter and Mack's freshman year when they happen to beat Uconn and Florida , with Bradley Beal. I like positive news and see real hope with Corey, Nigel, and Deshawn and a supporting cast next year. I do not want to blow it up and start all over.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Green, man, I don't know what else to say to you my friend, but you're having a brutally (wrong) week on the boards LOL! Maybe take a weekend off (as I do from time-to-time, it's healthy and you get a different outlook, sometimes, by doing so...).

Anyway, you are SO WRONG re: Hobbs' decision about skating the CC meeting early, to meet with a B1G $$$ donor, it's not even funny. There is NO question that he made the correct decision here and, bottom line, he DID show up, even if for an abbreviated period. How many times have there been expected speakers in the past - both Court Club an TD Club - who completely blew off their scheduled appearance??

Com'on man.

 

[jellyman]

No doubt...the fact that he was in the mix and received playing time and actually had big games against good opponents tells us something.

I don't think there is a doubt he will be a 20+ MPG guy for us and probably will be a double digit scorer. the 2 major questions....will he defend and can he shoot. Given his minutes and the raw 3 point shooting data we have, albeit low sample size, i am a skeptic.

I have no idea about the defense.

He did shoot 34% overall from 3-point range as a Sophomore, but 37%-38% the last 9 games of the season, for whatever that is worth. Just having an additional 35% 3-point shooter is an improvement over what RU has had this year. Grier is shooting 36% from 3 this season, true enough. But since the Indiana game he has shot just 10-37 from 3-point range (27%) - that is over a span of the last 12 games ... after the Indiana game he had been shooting 15-32 from 3-point range on the season. Overall, in Big Ten play, Grier is shooting 28% from 3 ... worse than Mike Williams, who is shooting 31% from 3 in Big Ten play.

To other posters: Johnson is NOT a PG. He is a shooting guard. I do not see him backing up Sanders. Williams probably backs up at both the PG and 2G slot. I think one of the Freshman verbals also plays some PG (at 6'5"). I would not expect RU to start a 3G line-up. Johnson or Williams start opposite Sanders, with the "loser" being the 1st guard off the bench - and still getting 20" minutes a game. I would expect Laurent to start at WF and Freeman at PF. Doorson and Diallo battle it out for the starting C slot. Foreman is the back-up PF and a 3rd Center when needed. The current verballed Freshmen (3) vie for playing time at the Wing positions: Guard and Forward.

Other stats: In Big Ten play Sanders has a 1.7 to 1 Assist to Turnover ratio. Not bad, though not elite ... but for a Freshman who has lost many assists because his teammates miss open shots or cannot finish well, not too bad. He would be over 2 to 1 ratio easily if his teammates could finish or hit open shots.

 

[Loyal-Son]

BK, thanks for all you have done for RU basketball.

You are the most connected to the program of any posters on this site.

IMO Most fans want to hear your opinions. I wish you would share more. I personally appreciate your positive comments on guys like Lewis, and I think our players and coaches need to have the good things shared with the public. I would hope most fans accept the constant nastiness of a few as being the posters' problems.

 

[bac2therac]

As to Nigel Johnson, while there is certainly reason to be skeptical about statements regarding his great success in practice, in this case we do have a body of work and there is certainly reason to think he will be a big contributor next season.

I don't doubt he will be an upgrade over what we have now...Williams but I am questioning that he improves us leaps and bounds. Will he provide defense? What about the team chemistry with Sanders? I just don't buy kool aid when a player is talked up like the savior and second coming before hes even played. I heard nonsense about Foreman and Goode being the best shooter on the team before the season began. It seems like its the wild eyed optimists putting the most expectations on him

 

[RUChoppin]

It's sounding like our depth chart is going to look something like this:

PG: Sanders, Williams, Dailey
SG: Johnson, Williams, Dailey, Goode
WF: Laurent, Thiam, Tripp
PF: Freeman, Foreman
C: Doorson, Diallo, Foreman

And really, it'll probably be more like Sanders, Johnson, Laurent, Freeman, Doorson... with Williams first off the bench, and Diallo/Foreman mixing in as Freeman/Doorson pick up fouls. And there's still one TBD body.

 

[goru7]

It's sounding like our depth chart is going to look something like this:

PG: Sanders, Williams, Dailey
SG: Johnson, Williams, Dailey, Goode
WF: Laurent, Thiam, Tripp
PF: Freeman, Foreman
C: Doorson, Diallo, Foreman

And really, it'll probably be more like Sanders, Johnson, Laurent, Freeman, Doorson... with Williams first off the bench, and Diallo/Foreman mixing in as Freeman/Doorson pick up fouls. And there's still one TBD body.

Looks like a roster that can compete in the Big 10! Freeman is the key, since he is the only big that can score with his moves on the block. Not expecting Shaquille to score much but if he can hold onto a few of Corey's lasers , maybe he gives you a few baskets per game. Right now the other teams do not need to defend the low post. DJ even when he gets the ball and drives it is not from the block but from the foul line, the wings or the elbow.