I agree. I'm not even sure his game translates to Europe. Maybe an Asian country where he can just dominate physically...Kofi Cockburn is playing in Ja pan.
Cliff 50%
- Thread starter ScooterSports
- Start date
Did he spend his time in the offseason shooting threes instead of working on his feet and that 5 ft hook?
He needs to put that thing all the way down fingers through the net.
He can and will be amazing. Bring in Roy Hinson to work with him
Since we are all experts here.. I'll add my 2 cents.
Cliff needs to know what his advantage is and use it. It is quickness and coordination. Speed is how he gets his dunks when he beats his man to the rim and gets an alley-opp or entry pass on the move.
Set up further out.. cross into the lane with speed and he'll leave the defender behind and get right to the rim. Go AROUND him. He stops too short and the guy is right in his face and Cliff has to reach over him. I think Cliff has simply reached over too many players to this point in his life and it has worked for him.
We'll all agree that he needs to put the three away.. they don't even try to defend it. And if it doesn't result in their big coming out.. why do it? That said.. I think he needs to shoot that starting at NBA range and step into the shot. When he goes right to the line he cannot flow into the shot. He just stands there.. it is all arms.. I would think he'd benefit from using his whole body... so, step into the shot.
AND CLIFF.. please.. (and this goes for so many others on our team too).. PENETRATE AND DISH.
Cliff needs to get some assists. Make the help D worry about leaving their man.
ALL THAT SAID.. we are not going to beat a team that hot from 3 and that determined to take 3s. Michigan State penetrated and then passed to the three shooters because they knew we'd collapse on them.
We need to STOP PENETRATION... and as for Cliff's part of this... don't commit to go get a help-block.. make it look like you might.. keep your feet.. you are so quick off your feet you need not raise up until the shooter does. Same goes for Mag.. how often is Mag way in the air swinging wildy near a shooter with the shooter going up as Mag comes down?
Cliff needs to know what his advantage is and use it. It is quickness and coordination. Speed is how he gets his dunks when he beats his man to the rim and gets an alley-opp or entry pass on the move.
Set up further out.. cross into the lane with speed and he'll leave the defender behind and get right to the rim. Go AROUND him. He stops too short and the guy is right in his face and Cliff has to reach over him. I think Cliff has simply reached over too many players to this point in his life and it has worked for him.
We'll all agree that he needs to put the three away.. they don't even try to defend it. And if it doesn't result in their big coming out.. why do it? That said.. I think he needs to shoot that starting at NBA range and step into the shot. When he goes right to the line he cannot flow into the shot. He just stands there.. it is all arms.. I would think he'd benefit from using his whole body... so, step into the shot.
AND CLIFF.. please.. (and this goes for so many others on our team too).. PENETRATE AND DISH.
Cliff needs to get some assists. Make the help D worry about leaving their man.
ALL THAT SAID.. we are not going to beat a team that hot from 3 and that determined to take 3s. Michigan State penetrated and then passed to the three shooters because they knew we'd collapse on them.
We need to STOP PENETRATION... and as for Cliff's part of this... don't commit to go get a help-block.. make it look like you might.. keep your feet.. you are so quick off your feet you need not raise up until the shooter does. Same goes for Mag.. how often is Mag way in the air swinging wildy near a shooter with the shooter going up as Mag comes down?
Cliff.. and Caleb for that matter.. it is like they decide what the move is and don't keep track of the defender at all. So many unforced errors on passes too.. so strange a game.
Agree with Cliff going around people using athleticism not through them, but if you think Cliff should be penetrating and dishing you're living in a dream world. That's a recipe for disaster. He doesn't have that skill set
Yep. And Cliff is still learning how to play the game. Only started at age 14. His upside is still there
how many of you played in the NBA? This is like when all the msg board experts say Pach isn’t a NFL back because his running style is unnatural. Not many NBA players can do Cliff’s 1st dunk in the game. He makes this team. W/o him, we don’t make the NIT.
No one is claiming that he is not a key cog in our wheel and that hes not a freak athlete. BUT being a freak athlete does not equal a translation into the NBA. PERIOD.
Ok he is a great dunker. He is 39% from the field in big 10 play. He has no post moves with his back to the basket, his hands arent good, he cant really dribble, and he cant shoot well beyond dunking it or with a point blank layup - RIGHT NOW.
He can develop all these things but not by going to the NBA next year.
Cliff simply needs to play better fundamental basketball. At a very basic level he is not squaring up to the basket when he shoots. He jumps and tries to twist in the air and shoot at the same time. He is not that skilled yet. So as people have suggested his foot work needs to improve. And he needs to have a plan when he makes a move that ends with him being squared up to the basket. If he simply made this change his shot percentage would go up dramatically.
And believe me he’s not the only player on the team who should be focused on this.
And believe me he’s not the only player on the team who should be focused on this.
I would love to get him back next year and hope NIL will help. But the NBA game is very different than college. There is no spacing in college for bigs to dribble. He is not a post player. He is a face up player.
I agree to an extent but you still need strong fundamentals to play in the NBA and he just lacks many of them.
Didn’t he pick up the game late? His learning curve is steep. From his frosh to now is night and day. Hope he comes back for one more
While Cliff did drive across the lane late and dish.. his form of this would be getting an entry pass in the lane and then dishing. I would have thought that would be the obvious take given how many times MSU bigs did just that.
Right on the money. And if he squared from mid-range and hit more he'd have more room for that big move to the rim and hit more of them. And, yes, that applies to almost everyone who took a shot last night. So many times the guys took a well-defended shot from weird positions. And others stood around watching. They should learn a lot from what MSU did to them. They defended well.. but better ball movement beat them.
He can't play center in NBA.
Until he can show a mid range shot, he won't make it in NBA.
NBA centers will eat him for lunch...just like the B1G centers are doing so far
The point is that without the dunks his shooting percentage goes way down because he has no other game.
I read an interview with him where he said he spent the whole off season working on his mid range and 3 pt shot. He didnt work on his post game or defense and it shows.
How is he a face up player with no jump shot or handle.
The freshman from MSU that ate him alive tonight is what we need him to be, that kid is going to be a stud. Legit post moves, rebounds the ball and plays defense.
I was just talking to Newell138 working on your post game is a full time lifelong occupation, especially if you’re a post player
Especially if you didn’t start playing till you were 14. Do you think Kevin McCalle spent his summers shooting 3 pointers!?
If Cliff had any of these:
- a good midrange game,
- a decent 3 point shot
- the ability to face up on the perimeter, drive and finish or set up teammates
- an efficient low post-game, both for scoring and setting up others
Maybe, but he won't play at the next level. Cliff has a realistic shot to do that
He still has no post moves and has absolutely no touch around the basket and very often he forces the ball up taking those hook shots from more than 10 feet out
Unfortunately maybe fortunate for us there's no way he ever plays in the NBA
That guy is the type of player Cliff struggles with - bad matchup for Cliff.
That guy has been giving up athleticism his whole life so he knows how to use position, leverage and footwork fundamentals to gain an advantage and finish vs athleticism and length.
He is Cliff's kryptonite
Sorry his overall basketball IQ is very very poor unfortunately both on offense and defense
He's been making much better passes out of the post. Definitely showing improvement there.
He also can’t guard anyone who is good.
Who cares about the next level? The only thing I care about is his play at this level, and it has not been up to par.
Kid has incredible potential he is a great kid and I know he will be the best he can
The positive is looking like he will be back next year
In order for him to get around the defender he has to be more athletic, which he is, but also needs to combine that with the ability to handle the ball, which is suspect.
Yeah, 35th in the country in blocks with 1.95 per game. Do you think MSU guy can hedge against the high screen like Cliff and recover? On the post man to man D, I think he is doing what the coaches tell him. They don’t want him in foul trouble. They are asking him to be less aggressive on MTM D.
Every decent center he has played against this year has abused him. I like Cliff, but his defense against other centers this year has been poor.
He holds the ball like it’s a tennis ball. are You saying he can’t catch passes?
