Not a whole lot of difference between a junior and senior in terms of the draft. If you've already stayed in college for 3 years, you aren't really part of the same cohort as the guys who are one or two and done.
Basketball Cliff Omoruyi declares for NBA Draft, maintains eligibility
- Thread starter Richie O
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He didn’t get invited to the nba combine. Probably less than 0.1% he gets drafted now. Still think he’s getting drafted and not returning?
I've never thought he was going to get drafted. I also don't think he'll ever play in the NBA.
I hope he returns.
IF his #1 goal is playing in the NBA, that's a long shot, but the odds of it happening only get worse by returning to Rutgers
I think Cliff realizes this now, when he probably didn't before - seeing what it's like to prepare for playing in the NBA is not like daily Rutgers practices going against Wolf and Big Ten games playing against Zach Edey and Zed Key.
That makes it unlikely he'll return - again, I hope he does return.
If you read it properly, I said if he continues on the same growth and development path as Cliff in 3 years, his potential is higher with the skills he has shown that Cliff has yet to show. He's not as far off from freshman Cliff as you think. Woolf has shown that confidence in ball handling in a live game vs Michigan in a B1G tournament game, he can run full sprint with the ball and finish, something Cliff hasn't done once, opposite foul line to rim. It's something the NBA scouts told Cliff he needs to work on from the NBA drills and games he played in G League Elite camp this weekend. Cliff has rarely shown the ability he can bring the ball up the floor without deferring quickly, Why do you think RHJ showed more ball handling his last year, NBA scouts told him the same thing. Woolf showed in the video that natural instinct. TE grabbing the ball, running for a TD ability. Don't dismiss the football skills translate to better basketball potential. There are things Cliff can do that Wolf probably won't either.
Wolf was a 3⭐P5 TE prospect. He is a natural gifted, 2 sport athlete, focused on basketball only 2 years ago, that can run past or over defenders in his highlight reels and has shown better hands than Cliff being a former TE. He is a more fluid big than Cliff, Wolf 6'9 250 to Cliff 6'11 240.
Cliff(fr), 23 GM 6 ST, 343 minutes, 3.8pts, 4.0 reb, 36-57 63.2% FG, 45 PF
87 points, 2 GMs under 10 minutes(8, 9), 16 blks
Woolf(fr), 32 GM 0 ST, 235 minutes, 2.3pts, 1.6 reb, 33-49 67.3% FG, 49 PF
75 points, 14 GMs 5 or less minutes, 6 blks
*9 gms 11-19 min, 50 pts, 34 reb, 5.6pts, 3.8reb*
9 gms 6-9 min, 17 pts, 15 reb,
14 GM 1-5 min, 8 pts, 3 reb
Cliff 4 years of HS basketball only, Woolf, 3 years football, 4 years basketball.
It's a smaller sample size because his mop up appearance drags down his averages. He's not that far off in development, considering Cliff, played behind Myles with more opportunities for longer stretches to develop, than Wolf playing behind Cliff with less opportunities but better numbers when given the minutes Cliff got his freshman year. We can revisit this in a couple years.
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I meant that he won't be back. Not that he'll get drafted. I thought you wrote 99.9% he's back.
My guess is he gets invited to a camp, doesn't make the team and goes to the G League.
I hope this isn't right, I hope he gives up on playing in the NBA and returns to Rutgers with the goals of playing two more years in college and helping the team and his teammates in any way he can (i.e. getting away from shooting 3's and trying to be a low post player).
I don’t think Wolf is a likely NBA prospect BUT it is much easier to correct fouling issues (usually a symptom of increased speed to the college game) than learning wholesale skill sets. Wouldn’t shock me if Wolf looks like a college version of NBA Draymond Green in a year or two - short roll decision maker and physical impact.
One thing you can’t ignore from his Combine play - the comments that his PGs were able to find him. I’ve always been curious if his games with reduced production was due to him rolling at bad angles or the guards not creating good angles for him…maybe with more Simpson and Fernandes running things, he will really pop this year.
I would listen to the people in the know who have said over and over that he is very likely returning.
It seemed like Cliff's lob catches were down significantly this past season.
Was it more RHJ and Geo throwing them than Paul or anyone else? Seems like it must have been.
I hope Simpson and Fernandes find him more but I also think Griffiths will find him and hopefully Cam will more too after playing with him for a season. AND hopefully a whole new offensive design that enables a lot more of that sort of thing.
The margin for error when throwing Cliff a lob pass is HUGE, for some guys it has to be just right or within a small radius, Cliff has a large area where he can catch them and finish.
If cliffs only goal was to make the nba he would have left after his freshman or sophomore year just like the numerous other college players who have done the same. Staying last season did nothing for his stock.
Absent some evidence or strong logic, I'm not a big "you should listen to people in the know" kind of guy.
Sure, but he's already played 3. He only has an extra year because of Covid rules.
If you aren't in the "came out as an underclassman" bucket, staying an extra year isn't really hurting you significantly more than staying for your 3rd year already did... unless your junior year was a truly standout season and you feel you aren't going to put any better performance on film if you return.
It's an educated guess based on a bunch of logic I've shared.
The logic I've seen for him deciding to return is less convincing.
I'm not trying to guess which is the best decision for him in the long run, or which is the best decision for Rutgers
basketball, I'm trying to guess which decision is the most likely one he will make.
It is hurting him from the standpoint he will be 23 next year and the NBA has shown little interest in trying to develop players at raw as him at that age. Unfortunately for Cliff’s pro career he doesn’t have great options. The 6’9” measurement at the combine could be fatal for his NBA ambitions. There are a few smaller center but they have very different skill sets than Cliff. He has a power forward’s size, but also not that skill set. I think his future is probably overseas, but he may not accept that yet. I think he choice at this point is come back or go overseas, and I expect him back. I think he only leaves if he is just determined to start his pro career at whatever league is right for him at this time.
This!
No NIL completely messes up the calculus for someone like Clif.
G-League 2-way Contract: approx $500,000 for 5 months (this is what RHJ signed)
Standard G-League Contract: $40,500 for 5-6 months (potentially up to almost $100k)
Not sure if Clif has a promise of a 2-way contract (teams only get 3 each). They are availalbe for anyone with less than 4 years experience - not just rookies. For example RHJ will likely be trying to sign another one.
I would assume Clif could easily surpass a regular G-League contract with NIL considerations in college.
We have an overseas trip scheduled. The NIL point is moot at this point. He will get paid.
This is the key part. What a player believes or is ready to believe.
The expectations most of these kids have coming out of HS are not realistic
It's tough to stop chasing a dream when that is what has driven you your whole life
They have an overseas trip planned. He will be able to participate in NIL for that trip. Another reason why he most likely returns.
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Even after just a year, it’s clear Wolf won’t be any more of an NBA prospect than Paul is. Not nearly at athletic or skilled enough. Unless you’re 7 feet tall you either need to be a great shooter or ballhandler.
Cliff is plenty athletic enough, but also not skilled enough.
Consider some the best players in the league the last few years: Ivey, Garza, Dickinson, Edey, McGowans, Murray. You think Wolf will have similar production or nba potential?
Cliff is plenty athletic enough, but also not skilled enough.
Consider some the best players in the league the last few years: Ivey, Garza, Dickinson, Edey, McGowans, Murray. You think Wolf will have similar production or nba potential?
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After his freshman year a certain poster thought Eugene Omoruyi wasn’t good enough to play at LA Fitness. He’s now in the nba actually playing minutes. His size is less impressive that Wolf and he was probably more raw. Basketball players can make huge leaps, especially if they can think the game and see the floor (this was evident that Eugene could see passes and react defensively as a freshmen, btw).
This isn’t really true. For someone getting drafted on potential, yeah sure, leave college and take the sure thing. Cliff isn’t a draft candidate for this year though.
Your right that he’d get more pro tailored development in the G league, but that’s true of everyone there and the scouts know it. So by going that route - He’d be starting at ground zero and in a position where he really has to kill it consistently in the G-league to even get a sniff of consideration.
If he returns to school, he has not one, but 2 more years to potentially stand out as a national first team caliber player. If that happens at any point, he still may not get drafted but he’d have a good chance to at least earn a 2 way contract like Ron did and make it into a few NBA games. Plus there’s the NIL factor whereas the G-league pays peanuts.
I'm not sure where to even start after that. Wow.
Cliff has been at Rutgers for 3 years.
What is going to happen in year 4 or 5 that helps him get more NBA-ready that hasn't already happened in the first 3? If anything he got worse (showed less NBA potential) last season.
I hope he stays, I hope he has the wisdom to realize the NBA isn't for him and pursue other goals. Including being awesome at Rutgers and helping the team get deep in the NCAA tournament.
That's what I hope. What I think is that he's been around people (his agent, trainers, other players etc) for a number of weeks now who are telling him that leaving Rutgers now is his best hope (if he has any) of playing in the NBA and that is very influential.
He’s not going to be “more NBA ready”. That’s not it. Think of RHJ. He didn’t get more NBA ready by staying another year, but he had a great year and his starting point stock did improve a bit from the visibility. It’s much easier to stand out in college than it is in the G-league.
What other poster, and who cares ? This is about Wolf. Neither the athleticism or skill is there, and if it neither are there by college they aren’t going to be. Not that he can’t be a VG college player, but the NBA is a different animal.
His ceiling is Andrew Kolbasovsky. No shame in that.
The idea that Cliff couldn't improve on his ballhandling skills, footwork and passing in another college year is fully absurd.
All that is said about him is athletic but "raw". He unequivocally could make himself more possible for a pro career by another year working on those things.
All that is said about him is athletic but "raw". He unequivocally could make himself more possible for a pro career by another year working on those things.
Why would he improve more at Rutgers, where he has already spent 3 years, with this year practicing against Wolf and preparing to play against Big 10 Centers, than he would in the G League where they will specifically work on making him more NBA ready?
Why would he improve?
Because he is without dispute still raw, and relatively new to basketball. Each year he has shown more. He would improve just by basketball exposure, regardless of opponent. That makes one more ready for NBA possibilities.
No matter how often it is posted that playing B10 centers and backups is not the same as developmental league play, that is just DEGREE of competition or possibly improvement.
What about his window? We have all seen players come out too early before they are ready and they cant take advantage of their opportunity because it is NOT the right window for them.
That is Cliff. He needs much more polish to then take his shot. He's not ready now and then the focus is on next year's crop and the potential that can be seen and he may not be revisited. Cliff getting beaten by other centers now does NOT help him. It moves him to the scrapheap and focus is elsewhere. If he works on those above areas cited, he will be ready to then compete against developmental league centers. Another year is best for Cliff.
Because he is without dispute still raw, and relatively new to basketball. Each year he has shown more. He would improve just by basketball exposure, regardless of opponent. That makes one more ready for NBA possibilities.
No matter how often it is posted that playing B10 centers and backups is not the same as developmental league play, that is just DEGREE of competition or possibly improvement.
What about his window? We have all seen players come out too early before they are ready and they cant take advantage of their opportunity because it is NOT the right window for them.
That is Cliff. He needs much more polish to then take his shot. He's not ready now and then the focus is on next year's crop and the potential that can be seen and he may not be revisited. Cliff getting beaten by other centers now does NOT help him. It moves him to the scrapheap and focus is elsewhere. If he works on those above areas cited, he will be ready to then compete against developmental league centers. Another year is best for Cliff.
He will be a year older and he will be expected to have some improvement, for him to improve his NBA value, he has to vastly outperform his expected development, and it is tough to improve as much in college because of the limited time with coaches and in practice vs it being your 24/7 job. And I heard @Richard Schnyderite disagree if this, but he was measured at the combine and his height is an issue. There are a handful of NBA centers smaller than 6’10”, but then you have to bring other skills that the bigger players don’t have to justify getting a shot.
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You missed the point. I didn't ask why would he improve I asked why would he improve more at Rutgers than he would in the G-League? in terms of becoming an NBA player.
You're comparing a tweener 3/4 from the mid 90s, 6'8 210-220, who was a good A10 player but stats, minutes and role were reduced his senior year moving from the A10 to the Big East as the year went on to Freshman Rob Hodgson that became eligible during the year to a 6'9 250lb big, 3⭐ athlete in Football and Basketball, to receive D1 offers to play TE to U of Cincinnati, BC, and Marshall, plays a complete different position in only his 3rd year 100% dedicating his focus on basketball, after his Jr year of HS playing both fb and bb, and 1st real offseason transforming his body to a basketball player. Woolfolk will get exponentially better now that he is playing basketball only.
Best comparison I can think of is Greg Echinique or Wally Judge would be more accurate, but I think Wolf has more upside than both if he can figure it out.
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Poster was kyk1827 (I think I got the numbers right). Who cares? Who was more athletic and skilled *as a freshman* - id say clearly Wolf over Eugene.
Exactly.
Focusing full time on basketball vs. NCAA limits on time with coaches, in practice, also dealing with classes and teachers and homework.
It's crazy people think development is a reason to return.
His NBA draft prospects likely won't change meaningfully.
His pro prospects likely won't change meaningfully.
How much did Caleb returning improve his future?
How much did it worsen his future?
The only reason to return is the "star power" of being a high level college player vs. becoming an adult with a full time job.
We will need to agree to disagree.
He will have more freedom to experiment to develop with less day to day pressure and against lesser competition.
While steel can sharpen steel, it night not be best for remolding or remodeling aspects of his game.
He will have more freedom to experiment to develop with less day to day pressure and against lesser competition.
While steel can sharpen steel, it night not be best for remolding or remodeling aspects of his game.
LOL - after you say "agree to disagree" you stop.
The whole meaning of "agree to disagree" is that you're done arguing.
The heights you see listed for guys in the NBA are with shoes on. Cliff was measured 6’9” without shoes on. Any NBA center you see listed at 6’10 or 6’11 is probably actually 6’9”
