I think it is a good idea. The reason is, it is a team and one player shouldn't be singled out as working the hardest or improving the most.
Coach Ash Chops Frank Burns Award, 2 Others
- Thread starter Knight Shift
- Start date
Are you saying you think how Ash said what he said in the press conference made him come across like idiot posters from PSU and SU? If so, I didn't pick up on that - I liked everything he said in the press conference.
Can you give some examples of what you mean?
Agree with this. This is all faux outrage. Guarantee 95% of this board was not aware of these awards prior to this article. Honor him else where in the form of a statue or memorials amongst the campus.
While I think Frank Burns is the greatest football coach in RU history, I don't think suspending the handing out of the award with his name on it for one spring is that big a deal given the reasoning Coach Ash gave. I mean it's SPRING FOOTBALL. You do realize that less than 20 years ago we had two local sports radio hosts COACHING the spring game, correct? We also had spring games where the current roster played the alumni...and the alumni BEAT them! This was as recently as the Shea Era. People really need to let this one go.
Ash gets it. He sees RU football differently than we do. He sees a fan base that holds a #12 ranked/3rd place finish in the Big East with a victory in the Texas Bowl as some monumental season coming exactly THIRTY years after their last monumental season where they finished undefeated yet ranked #17 in the country. Maybe the guy wants to have a nationally relevant season more than once every 30 years. Let him do things his way. What we were doing before, even under Saint Greg, wasn't exactly lighting the world of college football on fire save for 2006. Again, I will reserve judgement of him as a coach until I see how we play in a real game.
Ash gets it. He sees RU football differently than we do. He sees a fan base that holds a #12 ranked/3rd place finish in the Big East with a victory in the Texas Bowl as some monumental season coming exactly THIRTY years after their last monumental season where they finished undefeated yet ranked #17 in the country. Maybe the guy wants to have a nationally relevant season more than once every 30 years. Let him do things his way. What we were doing before, even under Saint Greg, wasn't exactly lighting the world of college football on fire save for 2006. Again, I will reserve judgement of him as a coach until I see how we play in a real game.
If he eliminates "The Birthplace of College Football", that 's where I draw the line.
Everything else...See ya!
Everything else...See ya!
I'm just wondering would Ash every remove Woody Hayes from OSU awards in the same manner he did here? How would the OSU fans take it? Maybe I'm over analyzing what he said because the meaning of the awards and the people associated with it.
I think that if OSU's football program was where RU's football program is at, then yes, Ash would most definitely do the same things there he's doing here. But OSU has a national championship caliber team with a long tradition of winning. Nobody can argue that they have a culture of winning. So there's no particular reason anybody should be making intrusive changes to the traditions and culture of OSU football.
RU football is unarguably at the basement of the Big Ten East right now. Ash's job depends on his being able to effect a culture change at RU and, eventually, to produce wins. He's going to do what he feels is necessary to do that. Including trashing traditions he feels do nothing to help the program start winning.
You hit the nail on the head. The award was not only about honoring current players but also honoring Frank Burns and two RU players who died playing football for RU. Press conference ignores that aspect and why many are upset. We have very little tradition and for at least twenty years it was a neat way to honor their memories. Part of RU's culture that did not need changing and part that a guy from OSU is probably unaware of what Coach Burns meant to RU.
There is a beginning to every tradition. How short sighted can we be? We cry "no tradition" because we keep replacing the only organic shit we have.
I'm still in with Ash, but I'm a little disappointed in the removal of the awards. The names and the meaning behind them is what got to me. Rutgers needed to change a lot of things, but Burns was a winner and the other two gave their all.
Carino pretty compelling and upset. Lots of upset people on social networks beyond this board.
Ridiculous .
Most of the 20,000 fans who attend the Spring Practice Game have certainly heard of these Awards.
I understand where you're coming from, no doubt this is a very emotional thing for you Doug, but remember he hasn't ruled out bringing them back (even as early as next year...if I'm understanding his reasoning for this) so let's see what happens as things move forward.
Omg so many people. Let's just cancel the season due to a stupid participation trophy.
Not-for-nothing but who the f* cares what Jerry Carino thinks? And, no, there are not "lots" of upset people around the social networks. It's pretty much all the same people, upset, in several different places.
Dunleavy updated his article with the following regarding the elimination of awards during the Schiano tenure, so it seems Ash isn't breaking new ground here:
"Here is a list of some other awards that Rutgers football discontinued during the Schiano era:
George T. Cronin Trophy - Awarded to the varsity football player who has manifested the most improvement and progress. Originated in 1931 and last awarded in 2004.
The Fan-ees - Awarded to the most improved senior player. Originated in 1978 and last awarded in 2004.
The 12th Man Award - For significant contributions to the enhancement of special teams. Originated in 1990 and last awarded in 2002.
Upstream Award - Awarded as a symbol of academic achievement. Originated in 1967 and last awarded in 2003."
"Here is a list of some other awards that Rutgers football discontinued during the Schiano era:
George T. Cronin Trophy - Awarded to the varsity football player who has manifested the most improvement and progress. Originated in 1931 and last awarded in 2004.
The Fan-ees - Awarded to the most improved senior player. Originated in 1978 and last awarded in 2004.
The 12th Man Award - For significant contributions to the enhancement of special teams. Originated in 1990 and last awarded in 2002.
Upstream Award - Awarded as a symbol of academic achievement. Originated in 1967 and last awarded in 2003."
no one even knows who wins these awards...I bet you most here complaining dont know these awards even existed before today...with all respect to Doug because obviously its important to him
I posted this on the other board. I'm sure no one will care but the people being alienated are some who are giving major donations to Rutgers sports because they are in the "older" fan category and I don't think we can afford to alienate them:
I agree that Ash may not be ready to give spring awards and he is within his rights to say no to this year or even to future years for that matter. But to "dismiss" awards that honor people who are part of a rich tradition is not right - he needed to acknowledge that he may bring them back or may change them up, not just dismiss them for the sake of change. If he starts tampering with other traditions I think it will start to rub people the wrong way. In fact, he's been pretty dismissive of Rutgers tradition and history, which is something that Schiano did NOT do - he was very careful in making sure he honored the good parts of Rutgers football that preceded him. Ash seems to have a rather cavalier attitude about traditions and is substituting Ohio State stuff - we are NOT Ohio State. You can cite our poor performance but our history is actually quite rich and full of some amazing people - from Paul Robeson, Billy Austin, Frank Burns, Brian Leonard and I could go on and on. This statement from Ash shows a level of arrogance or insensitivity that doesn't sit right - I'm all for changing things to make us a better team but there is place for honoring history.
"There are a lot of changes that have gone on here. There are a lot of things that have been traditional here at Rutgers. It’s a new era. I’m going to do things the way that I think they need to be done and the way that I want them to be done. I’ve said this several times to people: If it’s the same way that business has been done in the past and that’s the way that I want to do it, great. If it’s different, it’s different. I could apologize for it, but I’m not."
I agree that Ash may not be ready to give spring awards and he is within his rights to say no to this year or even to future years for that matter. But to "dismiss" awards that honor people who are part of a rich tradition is not right - he needed to acknowledge that he may bring them back or may change them up, not just dismiss them for the sake of change. If he starts tampering with other traditions I think it will start to rub people the wrong way. In fact, he's been pretty dismissive of Rutgers tradition and history, which is something that Schiano did NOT do - he was very careful in making sure he honored the good parts of Rutgers football that preceded him. Ash seems to have a rather cavalier attitude about traditions and is substituting Ohio State stuff - we are NOT Ohio State. You can cite our poor performance but our history is actually quite rich and full of some amazing people - from Paul Robeson, Billy Austin, Frank Burns, Brian Leonard and I could go on and on. This statement from Ash shows a level of arrogance or insensitivity that doesn't sit right - I'm all for changing things to make us a better team but there is place for honoring history.
"There are a lot of changes that have gone on here. There are a lot of things that have been traditional here at Rutgers. It’s a new era. I’m going to do things the way that I think they need to be done and the way that I want them to be done. I’ve said this several times to people: If it’s the same way that business has been done in the past and that’s the way that I want to do it, great. If it’s different, it’s different. I could apologize for it, but I’m not."
Give the guy a break. He's not used to giving awards to kids who weren't 5-star, top 10 recruits coming out of HS.
I understand it from ash's point of view in the sense that he thinks that Rutgers football needs a way bigger overhaul than many of our own fans realize .. Of course he has that vision, this guy just came here from stops at 3 major programs. He knows what the next level looks like and he is trying to create it. I hope he succeeds, because winning is awesome.
But tradition and some other aspects of college football are what make it different, and ultimately special. Every era in a programs history is important. But each one should show respect to the ones prior while also creating their own story.
Ash trying to get rid of the chop is a slight against schiano.
We need to be proud of our history no matter how good or bad. I personally like that we started the game, then sucked, then will go on to one day win a national championship. It will happen some day, and it's going to be nuts
But tradition and some other aspects of college football are what make it different, and ultimately special. Every era in a programs history is important. But each one should show respect to the ones prior while also creating their own story.
Ash trying to get rid of the chop is a slight against schiano.
We need to be proud of our history no matter how good or bad. I personally like that we started the game, then sucked, then will go on to one day win a national championship. It will happen some day, and it's going to be nuts
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Hope Ash reconsiders or finds a way to honor Frank Burns.
It's one thing to try and change a program into the image you think it should project, but that can be done by keeping some of the old traditions or honoring those who are part of RU FB's history
in another way.
Frank R Burns is still highly respected by those who follow RU FB and know its history.
Burns deserves a place in Ash's program, just like the Birth of College Football must be a part of RU FB's past, present and future .
There is a way to honor some who are part of RU FB's past if Ash wants to
So I hope Chris Ash finds a way to make Frank Burns part of the present RU FB program.
It's one thing to try and change a program into the image you think it should project, but that can be done by keeping some of the old traditions or honoring those who are part of RU FB's history
in another way.
Frank R Burns is still highly respected by those who follow RU FB and know its history.
Burns deserves a place in Ash's program, just like the Birth of College Football must be a part of RU FB's past, present and future .
There is a way to honor some who are part of RU FB's past if Ash wants to
So I hope Chris Ash finds a way to make Frank Burns part of the present RU FB program.
Coach Ash just made the name Frank Burns 10times more important in ru football history. Funny how things work
Yes, on that day, when they hear them announced. You know how important tradition is to me, however, ask 90% of those people, in October, the names and reasons for each award, and they won't know. Now, I'm not saying they don't have meaning, et al, but again let's see what happens. His words make it very clear that this could only be a "for now" scenario.
Heh-heh... 1895 photo with the big ass megaphone! Well done, and a "Bow-wow-wow Rutgers!" to you sir!
Those awards were WAY OLDER than the ones that Ash got rid of which started in the 1990's.
Thank you for that list.
lol don't even start. Come on knight shift, we really need to forget Flood for a while.
I'm having trouble getting worked up over any of this. I might not have axed (oh wait, can't use that term anymore, lol) the Burns/Mills awards, but it's not enough for me to complain about. And the chop is clearly a mantra from the previous two regimes and have no issue "chopping" that one. Now, if he penalizes players for "chopping" during a game, that would be going too far. Hey, maybe he'll institute the Greg Schiano "It's a Process" award.
I understand what you're saying. One day, RU wins a national championship, then we can be proud of what we've overcome.
However, I don't think I can agree that people should be proud of their history no matter how good or bad. Why should anybody be proud of the bad aspects of their history?
the bad history is what leads to certain actions that will ultimately result in better results.
I just see no benefit in hiding from it, or pretending it didnt exist. We were bad, then we got good (better than some of our own fans even realize), and now we have to take the next step up.
I don't mind our history because I know why it happened. I know why we weren't the top team for NJ players and fans. We were playing minor league ball when other northeast programs had their greatest successes. When college football blew up on TV, they were there and we weren't yet. We got serious about football about 20 years too late. If that wasn't the case, we wouldnt be having this conversation and we'd probably have some nicer silverware in the trophy case and some bigger, better facilities already.
Us being bad got us Greg Schiano - and he was awesome for the program. Kyle Flood being bad got us Chris Ash, and hopefully he will be awesome for the program.
I honestly don't understand the outrage. It isn't like he said Burns and the others were garbage and hated their names attached to anything. He decided not to award these "trophies" this year because no one deserves them. Who knows, they could come back next year. But Burns is still an important part of the history of this team. Everyone just needs something to be offended over
There's not really a significant amount of outrage.
- Doug received the Award and is obviously close to it and it effects him negatively (rightly so)
- G-Unit likely has an agenda and if you look at his posting history likely did not want Ash here and badmouthed him in the past and is looking to find / perpetuate the negative or fault in further things that Ash does
- Sparse others are likely older fans who have a better link to Burns and want his memory to continue forward as part of tradition
I understand and agree with all that. We should not pretend the history didn't exist. And I too don't mind the history. But that's all a far cry from being proud of what we've done badly. We should acknowledge it, but then work to correct it.
You make a statement that is a total lie. Schiano was rather "Caviler" in his in abandoning older traditions more then Ash maybe because Schiano stripped the older traditions before Ash even got here. There was few or none who noticed or cared. ( I did notice and I did care back in the start of Schiano's era. But I sucked up knowing how each and every coach must put HIS identify on the team.)
All posters understand YOU are not going loss your job over 12 Saturdays in the fall.
Coach Ash and his family and staff will live or die based on what 18-22 year olds do over ~42 hours in the fall.
Talk about no job security. This is his livelihood.
Hey Schiano worked out OK, let Ash have his chance
Ash Like Schiano: R here to change the culture of mediocrity, live with it Expect some ruffled feathers look below;
Rutgers football discontinued by Schiano:
George T. Cronin Trophy - Originated in 1931 and last awarded in 2004. <started By J. Wilder Tasker
The Fan-ees - Originated in 1978 and last awarded in 2004. < started by Frank Burns
The 12th Man Award - Originated in 1990 and last awarded in 2002. < stared by Doug Graber
Upstream Award - . Originated in 1967 and last awarded in 2003." < started by John Bateman
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