Corey Sanders - Another poor recruiting data point

[RUsojo]

its becoming more and more clear the talent level on this team is not getting better compared to our conference foes. We have continued to miss out on top targets (closed maybe 2 TBD without much competition). The failure to bring back a JR PG and best scorer and defender with limited professional options on a team who is missing exactly what he brings is another glaring signal that recruiting is not nearly good enough.

Now, this is not to say that recruiting will not improve 2020 and beyond. I believed it’s poised to do so and the resources are there to achieve success. But at this point those lauding our recruiting efforts should temper expectations. Pikiell has succeeded in getting guys that fit his style. That’s clear and really all that can he expected of a coach taking over at Rutgers for Eddie Jordan in year 3. But that’s not enough to take the next step and come close to .500.

Unfortunately I think people are ignoring the signs that we may not get that big talent influx we need. The style of basketball we are playing is not attractive to recruits. But here is my question:

What are the signs or what will it take to improve recruiting to middle of the conference? Informed responses only.

 

[S_Janowski]

Failing to see the connection between the “failure” to bring back Sanders and recruiting.

Maybe because there is none?

Sanders personal decision to not return has nothing to do with recruiting.

 

[bac2therac]

Recruiting has certainly improved. It going to hard to land too 50 players until some winning is done first. I am pleased with Pikiell's recruiting and sort of puzzled at this thread. Harper and Mathis are freshmen with high ceilings and we have Mulcahy and Young. Not sure what the OP expects for a program that has been trash for over a decade

 

[RUsojo]

Recruiting has certainly improved. It going to hard to land too 50 players until some winning is done first. I am pleased with Pikiell's recruiting and sort of puzzled at this thread. Harper and Mathis are freshmen with high ceilings and we have Mulcahy and Young. Not sure what the OP expects for a program that has been trash for over a decade

If you read my post I said recruiting is exactly where I expected it to be in year 3 after succeeding Eddie Jordan. Not that good. But there are more signs it won’t improve than it will improve.

A couple follow ups to replies so far:

@bac2therac Aside from star rankings what makes you believe Harper and Mathis have high ceilings? I see some good things from each of them - Harper has great touch, something we’ve sorely needed, and a good stroke and feel for the game. Mathis has good athleticism and I like his aggressive mentality. But my eyes also have me questioning if Harper will ever be able to defend in a man to man offense in this conference. Mathis has no outside game, not a good shooter spotting up and no handle to develop an off the dribble shooting threat. I find it hard to differentiate him from Jonathan Laurent based on tape so far. They can be good players but high ceilings comment is going too far and another example of vastly overstating our talent.

@S_Janowski Every recruit or player commits to a school and he does so because of “personal descions”. So yes it is 100% a recruiting miss.

 

[RocktheRac]

We have our foot in the door as far as recruiting. Now Pike has to get these guys to play well and develop so we can get in the door.

 

[bac2therac]

Relax dude. They've played in 9 games and have certainly progressed. I seriously am questioning your intentions in game 9 to trash recruiting. Obviously Pike will have to land players equal or possibly better than Mathis or Mulcahy. Of course Baker was rated 414 too

 

[S_Janowski]

If you read my post I said recruiting is exactly where I existed it to be in year 3 after succeeding Eddie Jordan. Not that good. But there are more signs it won’t improve than it will improve.

A couple follow ups to replies so far:

@bac2therac Aside from star rankings what makes you believe Harper and Mathis have high ceilings? I see some good things from each of them - Harper has great touch, something we’ve sorely needed, and a good stroke and feel for the game. Mathis has good athleticism and I like his aggressive mentality. But my eyes also have me questioning if Harper will ever be able to defend in a man to man offense in this conference. Mathis has no outside game, not a good shooter spotting up and no handle to develop an off the dribble shooting threat. I find it hard to differentiate him from Jonathan Laurent based on tape so far. They can be good players but high ceilings comment is going too far and another example of vastly overstating our talent.

@S_Janowski Every recruit or player commits to a school and he does so because of “personal descions”. So yes it is 100% a recruiting miss.

Sanders not coming back his senior year and trying to go Pro is not a recruiting miss.

But keep telling yourself that.

You need to come up with better material for your agenda.

 

[sct1111]

If you read my post I said recruiting is exactly where I existed it to be in year 3 after succeeding Eddie Jordan. Not that good. But there are more signs it won’t improve than it will improve.

A couple follow ups to replies so far:

@bac2therac Aside from star rankings what makes you believe Harper and Mathis have high ceilings? I see some good things from each of them - Harper has great touch, something we’ve sorely needed, and a good stroke and feel for the game. Mathis has good athleticism and I like his aggressive mentality. But my eyes also have me questioning if Harper will ever be able to defend in a man to man offense in this conference. Mathis has no outside game, not a good shooter spotting up and no handle to develop an off the dribble shooting threat. I find it hard to differentiate him from Jonathan Laurent based on tape so far. They can be good players but high ceilings comment is going too far and another example of vastly overstating our talent.

@S_Janowski Every recruit or player commits to a school and he does so because of “personal descions”. So yes it is 100% a recruiting miss.

Harper is a 3 and he had a huge wingspan. Get him in the gym and he'll have no problem guarding any big ten 3 in the league.

 

[Russ Wood]

We're one month into the season and some are going to give up on Mathis and Harper getting better over this season and their careers?

Maybe Coach is recruiting system guys like Tony Bennett does. Just a thought.

 

[RUsojo]

We're one month into the season and some are going to give up on Mathis and Harper getting better over this season and their careers?

Maybe Coach is recruiting system guys like Tony Bennett does. Just a thought.

If you notice I never said giving up on them. What’s with you? I said saying they have high ceilings is an exaggeration. Saying their ceiling is contributor would be more appropriate. Either way it’s assumed that in reality you always have to take the wait and see approach.

 

[RUsojo]

Harper is a 3 and he had a huge wingspan. Get him in the gym and he'll have no problem guarding any big ten 3 in the league.

I think Harper being a 3 is the problem. I’m not sure the can guard many 3s in this conference man to man on the perimeter.

 

[RUsojo]

Sanders not coming back his senior year and trying to go Pro is not a recruiting miss.

But keep telling yourself that.

You need to come up with better material for your agenda.

Yes it is bud. It’s a common principle.

 

[higgins3]

Onto your next agenda.

 

[RUsojo]

Relax dude. They've played in 9 games and have certainly progressed. I seriously am questioning your intentions in game 9 to trash recruiting. Obviously Pike will have to land players equal or possibly better than Mathis or Mulcahy. Of course Baker was rated 414 too

Questioning my intentions? LOL. My intention in this instance is to discuss recruiting on a recruiting site and hear why people feel we are on track to improve when I am more skeptical but still am holding out hope. The fact that no one has a great answer is what I think is bothering you and some others.

Maybe Geo being 414 and not having another PG on the roster is the reason we got absolutely cooked by a 5’10” Fordham point guard????

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

Site wide agreement to put RUSojo on ignore? Why give any credence to this drivel?

 

[biazza38]

How many times does it have to be stated, you will have a lot of misses in basketball recruiting. If you go three for ten, you’re doing well. You want to talk misses? Okay fine, we missed on Audre Hyatt to LSU and Massoud to someone else, Let’s talk about hits now. We landed Mulcahy, Mathis, Harper, Shaq Carter, and McConnell. McConnell we landed late in the cycle right after we missed on Strickland. That’s something we never would have been able to do. Mathis we got over Uconn. Harper we scooped up before anyone even noticed him. Just curious, are you going to give Pike any credit for that or just harp on the fact that we lost Hyatt and Massoud. You cannot and will not land every top target you go after, let alone 50%. This bashing of Pike is so freaking stupid. Yes, the rest of the big is bringing in talent. But the gap between our recruiting and the middle of the pack was massive when he got here.
As for the Corey Sanders point, you seriously have no clue what you’re talking about. He was gone regardless. But hey, we have to blame someone, so let’s blame Pike. Matter a fact let’s also give up on all of our freshmen while we are at it to.

 

[RUsojo]

Site wide agreement to put RUSojo on ignore? Why give any credence to this drivel?

Everything I say is well reasoned. Do what you want.

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

Everything I say is well reasoned. Do what you want.

While I’m sure you are a celebrated logician in your personal life, this makes precisely zero freaking sense. Just because it makes sense in your head (and you can use the pretzel logic to fit your clear agenda) doesn’t mean there is any correlation. I completely agree Corey’s skill set is needed on this team. His decision to leave doesn’t inform the state of recruiting at all...if anything, it signals that recruiting was good enough to be able to survive the loss and not look like an Eddie era team against top 15 opponents, 8 games into the freshmans careers. Indeed, we also have done a decent job to offset the loss of our second leading scorer and leading rebounder in DeShawn. That’s not accomplished by lack of quality depth.

 

[RUsojo]

While I’m sure you are a celebrated logician in your personal life, this makes precisely zero freaking sense. Just because it makes sense in your head (and you can use the pretzel logic to fit your clear agenda) doesn’t mean there is any correlation. I completely agree Corey’s skill set is needed on this team. His decision to leave doesn’t inform the state of recruiting at all...if anything, it signals that recruiting was good enough to be able to survive the loss and not look like an Eddie era team against top 15 opponents, 8 games into the freshmans careers. Indeed, we also have done a decent job to offset the loss of our second leading scorer and leading rebounder in DeShawn. That’s not accomplished by lack of quality depth.

His decision to leave doesn’t inform the state of recruiting in and of itself which is why I made clear it’s only another data point that should absolutely be cosidered when reviewing the state of recruiting. If you choose to not believe part of recruiting is retaining players that is your opinion but many experts would disagree with you.

We can continue to look decent (yet never win) against too 15 teams until the end of time but it means nothing if you finish last in conference and lose to really bad teams out of conference at the same time. This is not what I wanted to talk about but now that you’ve brought it up it need to be said. Some are assuming this team is close to a breakthrough because of those efforts against top teams but they are not doing the other things that typically lead up to a team breaking through which is putting away shi*tty teams and winning games against average conference opponents.

 

[RUDead]

its becoming more and more clear the talent level on this team is not getting better compared to our conference foes. We have continued to miss out on top targets (closed maybe 2 TBD without much competition). The failure to bring back a JR PG and best scorer and defender with limited professional options on a team who is missing exactly what he brings is another glaring signal that recruiting is not nearly good enough.

Now, this is not to say that recruiting will not improve 2020 and beyond. I believed it’s poised to do so and the resources are there to achieve success. But at this point those lauding our recruiting efforts should temper expectations. Pikiell has succeeded in getting guys that fit his style. That’s clear and really all that can he expected of a coach taking over at Rutgers for Eddie Jordan in year 3. But that’s not enough to take the next step and come close to .500.

Unfortunately I think people are ignoring the signs that we may not get that big talent influx we need. The style of basketball we are playing is not attractive to recruits. But here is my question:

What are the signs or what will it take to improve recruiting to middle of the conference? Informed responses only.

This post is a total fail. we have a BIG10 freshman class, but they are freshman. Need some time.

 

[RUsojo]

This post is a total fail. we have a BIG10 freshman class, but they are freshman. Need some time.

That remains to be seen. But yes time will tell.

 

[Abro1975]

I unable to find team recruiting rankings on Rivals, on 247 RU recruiting in the Big 10 was:

2018- ranked 10 out of 14
2017- ranked 10 out of 14
2016- ranked 11 out of 14
2015- ranked 9 out of 14
2014 - ranked 10 out of 14

 

[RUsojo]

I unable to find team recruiting rankings on Rivals, on 247 RU recruiting in the Big 10 was:

2018- ranked 10 out of 14
2017- ranked 10 out of 14
2016- ranked 11 out of 14
2015- ranked 9 out of 14
2014 - ranked 10 out of 14

And its worse if you look by average star rating. But again that’s ok provided 2020 makes a jump.

 

[Super tRUper]

Surprise. Another dramatic nonsensical post from a fan of one of the most dramatic self loathing fanbases around.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We don’t pay players.

That has resulted in us losing recruits.

Not much more to say.

 

[RUsojo]

Surprise. Another dramatic nonsensical post from a fan of one of the most dramatic self loathing fanbases around.

“Nonsensical” lol I don’t think you know what that means which is hard to do.

 

[knights1212]

You are saying that Jonathan Laurent is better than Montez Mathis? I think Jonathan was a good player but I believe Montez in the long run will be much better. Jonathan only averaged 3.0 as a soph 2 years ago. as a frosh he averaged 8.1 but much of the season we only had 7 scholarship players and our team was 7-25 We ended the season on a 15 game losing streak. Montez is so much more athletic and is good on defense. Laurent is now in his 4th year of college at Massachusetts. He left RU after his soph year.

 

[80yrdPacheco]

What is this OP talking about. You got a 6’6 PG coming in with unbelievable court vision. Please don’t let that football stinch come over here because everybody who has been really monitoring the team knows what’s up.

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

His decision to leave doesn’t inform the state of recruiting in and of itself which is why I made clear it’s only another data point that should absolutely be cosidered when reviewing the state of recruiting. If you choose to not believe part of recruiting is retaining players that is your opinion but many experts would disagree with you.

We can continue to look decent (yet never win) against too 15 teams until the end of time but it means nothing if you finish last in conference and lose to really bad teams out of conference at the same time. This is not what I wanted to talk about but now that you’ve brought it up it need to be said. Some are assuming this team is close to a breakthrough because of those efforts against top teams but they are not doing the other things that typically lead up to a team breaking through which is putting away shi*tty teams and winning games against average conference opponents.

“Retaining players” ...he retained Corey last year after he tested the waters, he wasn’t coming back. It’s not like he transfered. Ots not Dahntay or Billet or Rosario leaving for better programs. It has nothing to do with the state of our recruiting at all.
We have yet to play an “average conference opponent”...so how can you say this team isn’t winning those games? You are overreacting after a bad loss (that much more established programs have often) to push your oddly vigilient anti-Pike agenda.

 

[RUChow]

its becoming more and more clear the talent level on this team is not getting better compared to our conference foes. We have continued to miss out on top targets (closed maybe 2 TBD without much competition). The failure to bring back a JR PG and best scorer and defender with limited professional options on a team who is missing exactly what he brings is another glaring signal that recruiting is not nearly good enough.

Now, this is not to say that recruiting will not improve 2020 and beyond. I believed it’s poised to do so and the resources are there to achieve success. But at this point those lauding our recruiting efforts should temper expectations. Pikiell has succeeded in getting guys that fit his style. That’s clear and really all that can he expected of a coach taking over at Rutgers for Eddie Jordan in year 3. But that’s not enough to take the next step and come close to .500.

Unfortunately I think people are ignoring the signs that we may not get that big talent influx we need. The style of basketball we are playing is not attractive to recruits. But here is my question:

What are the signs or what will it take to improve recruiting to middle of the conference? Informed responses only.

Really not sure you have a clue. Recruiting has taken a big step forward in the last year and looks like it will continue to do so, but not so that we'll be getting top 25 kids yet. Pike's only in his third year and the program was in the sh(&&er. As far as kids not liking the style of play, that's really off base. Kids, particularly guards, absolutely love the style of play. Read some of their comments.

 

[Super tRUper]

Surprise. Another dramatic nonsensical post from a fan of one of the most dramatic self loathing fanbases around.

“Nonsensical” lol I don’t think you know what that means which is hard to do.

Let me break it down for you.

"Its becoming more and more clear the talent level on this team is not getting better compared to our conference foes." How is this "clear" for you? Was it clear when we went toe to toe against Michigan state and Wisconsin, two conference foes that are top 25 in the country?



"We have continued to miss out on top targets (closed maybe 2 TBD without much competition)." You mean continuously missing out on guys like Montez Mathis, Shaq Carter, Paul Mulcahy, Doucure, Mcconnell and Ron Harper? All of whom had high major offers?


"The failure to bring back a JR PG and best scorer and defender with limited professional options on a team who is missing exactly what he brings is another glaring signal that recruiting is not nearly good enough." How are these two even related? Nonsensical. Besides that, did Sanders make a mistake? Perhaps, you can argue both ways but the man has a kid that he needed to look out for.

"Now, this is not to say that recruiting will not improve 2020 and beyond. I believed it’s poised to do so and the resources are there to achieve success. But at this point those lauding our recruiting efforts should temper expectations." Again, where is your proof that recruiting is going poorly that 2020 needs to improve? And then you contradict yourself by saying we should temper our expectations. Is recruiting going poorly or is it going well but we should temper expectations?


"Pikiell has succeeded in getting guys that fit his style. That’s clear and really all that can he expected of a coach taking over at Rutgers for Eddie Jordan in year 3. But that’s not enough to take the next step and come close to .500." Besides Fordham have you even watched a game? This team is night and day from Jordan, Rice and FHJr. This team has done nothing but improve year after year.

"Unfortunately I think people are ignoring the signs that we may not get that big talent influx we need." May not? Sure. But what in the past would tell you that. Mods and insiders both feel we get our share of recruits.


So yes I think your post is dramatic and nonsensical. Much like the fools who want to fire hobbs

 

[dollarbill]

Onto your next agenda.

And new team. $$$$

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

The OP, this RUsojo guy, continues with the crazy comments.

 

[RutgersMO]

We're one month into the season and some are going to give up on Mathis and Harper getting better over this season and their careers?

Maybe Coach is recruiting system guys like Tony Bennett does. Just a thought.

Never thought Tony was much of a recruiter...but the Best is Yet To Come



MO

 

[Scangg]

its becoming more and more clear the talent level on this team is not getting better compared to our conference foes. We have continued to miss out on top targets (closed maybe 2 TBD without much competition). The failure to bring back a JR PG and best scorer and defender with limited professional options on a team who is missing exactly what he brings is another glaring signal that recruiting is not nearly good enough.

Now, this is not to say that recruiting will not improve 2020 and beyond. I believed it’s poised to do so and the resources are there to achieve success. But at this point those lauding our recruiting efforts should temper expectations. Pikiell has succeeded in getting guys that fit his style. That’s clear and really all that can he expected of a coach taking over at Rutgers for Eddie Jordan in year 3. But that’s not enough to take the next step and come close to .500.

Unfortunately I think people are ignoring the signs that we may not get that big talent influx we need. The style of basketball we are playing is not attractive to recruits. But here is my question:

What are the signs or what will it take to improve recruiting to middle of the conference? Informed responses only.

How about informed original posts only?

Stop embarrassing yourself

 

[RUsojo]

You all can’t be telling me you’ve never heard the expression used that sometimes your first recruiting job after a season is over is to make sure you keep a player who is on the border of leaving early.

I cannot fathom that it’s possible that you are so unaware of some basic college sporting adages.

 

[Super tRUper]

You all can’t be telling me you’ve never heard the expression used that sometimes your first recruiting job after a season is over is to make sure you keep a player who is on the border of leaving early.

I cannot fathom that it’s possible that you are so unaware of some basic college sporting adages.

You do realize Sanders was already contemplating leaving for the draft his sophomore year and he came back, dont you? Doesnt that also contradict you?

Not sure you ever heard the quote better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt....

 

[Scangg]

You all can’t be telling me you’ve never heard the expression used that sometimes your first recruiting job after a season is over is to make sure you keep a player who is on the border of leaving early.

I cannot fathom that it’s possible that you are so unaware of some basic college sporting adages.

Dude. Just stop

 

[RUsojo]

You do realize Sanders was already contemplating leaving for the draft his sophomore year and he came back, dont you? Doesnt that also contradict you?

Not sure you ever heard the quote better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt....

Yes I realize that. That was an example of a good job from Pikiell.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

You all can’t be telling me you’ve never heard the expression used that sometimes your first recruiting job after a season is over is to make sure you keep a player who is on the border of leaving early.

I cannot fathom that it’s possible that you are so unaware of some basic college sporting adages.

[jumpingsmile][jumpingsmile][jumpingsmile][jumpingsmile]. [roll][roll]:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: