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COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

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Yes, most of those countries did a lot of things better, but not Japan, really - they're #1 intervention was wearing masks. You asked a question that has no single answer. In a perfect world, we'd have everyone practicing social distancing, obviating the need for masks, but reality is there are many situations where people can't keep 6 feet or more apart (mass transit, restaurants/bars, events, very crowded city streets, etc.), so in those situations, masks are effective, as I've shown multiple times with links - do you expect me to post the links every time?

The POTUS doesn't wear a mask because he's an idiot, who won't follow the guidance of his own experts and on the beach it shouldn't be hard to keep 6 feet away from others, whereas that's much harder on the boardwalk. And in case you forget, plenty of public-facing workers (outside of hospitals) didn't have the right PPE, especially early on when transmission was greatest - but all you need to do is look at the antibody data from NYC health care workers, who had significantly lower levels of infection than the general public (12% vs. 20%), largely because they wore masks and washed hands religiously, because they certainly couldn't keep 6 feet from their patients. I had that link open, so I'll include it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisett...9-compared-to-public-cuomo-says/#4239c6a96619
#s we found a better balance in our discussions and it's better for everyone who reads this board that we don't return to those days. However it was a simple yes or no answer. The problem is that the use of masks is arbitrary outdoors. Not based on science at all. And you have to agree the science outdoors is lacking.
Social distancing is the key. It saved admission to hospitals. And as far as heath care workers it was very high in the beginning but they made changes and only certain people are admitted. In Philly they stopped sending suspected people to the Emergency ward. They now have special units to handle it. The amount of people that work on them is less than 25% from March and early April.
The only people I know who caught the virus with symptoms is doctors and hospital staff and their families. 3 where I work. Some day there will be enough data to prove you and me right or wrong. Today isn't that day.
We have people using an ad to sell masks as proof. Silly, don't you agree?
And yes the leader of this country is an idiot. And I'm a life long Republican. Ronald Regan would have done this differently. Getting both side of the aisle to bond together.
BTW I switched away from punk rock midway tonight and went BB King
 
elets talk masks because it looks like that argument of wearing them is in serious dispute...and IMO its more of a control thing, an appearance thing to keep people aware...just my opinion but given what is being said of late including Fauci

wearing masks outside is ridiculous IMO
WHO stated mask should only be worn if you have symptoms of Covid19.
 
So the WHO is to be believed now? Because it's now convenient? They weren't believable before, as many of you argued... now those same people are using the WHO as the believable authority? Kinda funny, huh?
I'm guessing you are a Trumper
 
#s we found a better balance in our discussions and it's better for everyone who reads this board that we don't return to those days. However it was a simple yes or no answer. The problem is that the use of masks is arbitrary outdoors. Not based on science at all. And you have to agree the science outdoors is lacking.
Social distancing is the key. It saved admission to hospitals. And as far as heath care workers it was very high in the beginning but they made changes and only certain people are admitted. In Philly they stopped sending suspected people to the Emergency ward. They now have special units to handle it. The amount of people that work on them is less than 25% from March and early April.
The only people I know who caught the virus with symptoms is doctors and hospital staff and their families. 3 where I work. Some day there will be enough data to prove you and me right or wrong. Today isn't that day.
We have people using an ad to sell masks as proof. Silly, don't you agree?
And yes the leader of this country is an idiot. And I'm a life long Republican. Ronald Regan would have done this differently. Getting both side of the aisle to bond together.
BTW I switched away from punk rock midway tonight and went BB King
That site was not an ad for selling masks. It is a company that sells air filters so they are experienced with HEPA filtration, improving air quality, testing filtration equipment, etc.

Smart Air is a social enterprise and certified B-Corp that that promotes cost-effective, data-backed air filters as a solution to indoor particulate air pollution. Smart Air provides open-source data and hosts educational workshops across Asia to teach people how to protect themselves from the harms of poor air quality.​

They created an open source page for sharing Coronavirus info on DIY masks, cleaning masks, etc. Since they are in the business of air filtration they have provided a service in testing masks including DIY designs and materials.

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/category/coronavirus/
 
That site was not an ad for selling masks. It is a company that sells air filters so they are experienced with HEPA filtration, improving air quality, testing filtration equipment, etc.

Smart Air is a social enterprise and certified B-Corp that that promotes cost-effective, data-backed air filters as a solution to indoor particulate air pollution. Smart Air provides open-source data and hosts educational workshops across Asia to teach people how to protect themselves from the harms of poor air quality.​

They created an open source page for sharing Coronavirus info on DIY masks, cleaning masks, etc. Since they are in the business of air filtration they have provided a service in testing masks including DIY designs and materials.

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/category/coronavirus/
Dude it says "buy" on the front page! Upper right hand corner. It's an ad to buy masks.
There is zero science in that ad.
 
Dude it says "buy" on the front page! Upper right hand corner. It's an ad to buy masks.
There is zero science in that ad.
They do not sell masks. If you took the time to read their articles on their blog you would see there is most definitely science involved in their testing of masks and materials to help people for free. You can read can't you?
 
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That site was not an ad for selling masks. It is a company that sells air filters so they are experienced with HEPA filtration, improving air quality, testing filtration equipment, etc.

Smart Air is a social enterprise and certified B-Corp that that promotes cost-effective, data-backed air filters as a solution to indoor particulate air pollution. Smart Air provides open-source data and hosts educational workshops across Asia to teach people how to protect themselves from the harms of poor air quality.​

They created an open source page for sharing Coronavirus info on DIY masks, cleaning masks, etc. Since they are in the business of air filtration they have provided a service in testing masks including DIY designs and materials.

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/category/coronavirus/
In other words it's an ad.
 
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Where is it in serious dispute? Control thing, huh?

If you’re in groups of people outside, probably makes sense to wear one.


Saw one neighbor of mine get in his car put only his back window down had a mask and gloves on and drive away. Must have been headed to a contamination dump and as far as the back window open I guess to keep the virus from getting directly on him in the front lol.

I also saw a guy walking yesterday which was hot who looked like the invisible man complete with goggles. He was so wrapped up it was ridiculous but he is one of the sheep being led.
 
I've already posted one link above about the filtering properties of various materials that was done by a company that tests N95 masks using the same machine used for qualit control of those masks. Here a couple more links with regards to testing various materials filtering properties. One from Wake Forest Baptist Health (testing done by Manufacturing Development Center of WF Institute of Regenerative Medicine) which was a summary article of their results and one from the American Chemical Society with a whole detailed run down of their study and I copied the sections on their observations and conclusions.

From the article:

What the test team found was that the masks’ effectiveness varied widely. The best homemade masks achieved 79% filtration as compared to surgical masks (62% to 65%) and N95 masks (97%). But other homemade masks tested performed significantly worse, sometimes demonstrating as little as 1% filtration, Segal said.

The best-performing design was constructed of two layers of high-quality, heavyweight “quilter’s cotton” with a thread count of 180 or more, and those with especially tight weave and thicker thread such as batiks. A double-layer mask with a simple cotton outer layer and an inner layer of flannel also performed well, he said.

The inferior performers consisted of single-layer masks or double-layer designs of lower quality, lightweight cotton.

“As important as this information is for hospitals, it is also important for people who want to make masks for their own use,” Segal said. “We don’t want people to think that just any piece of cloth is good enough and have a false sense of security.”

https://newsroom.wakehealth.edu/New...oth-Used-in-Homemade-Masks-Makes-a-Difference

The American Chemical Society study: (gory details in the link but here's some summary)

We highlight a few observations from our studies for cloth mask design:
Fabric with tight weaves and low porosity, such as those found in cotton sheets with high thread count, are preferable. For instance, a 600 TPI cotton performed better than an 80 TPI cotton. Fabrics that are porous should be avoided.

Materials such as natural silk, a chiffon weave (we tested a 90% polyester–10% Spandex fabric), and flannel (we tested a 65% cotton–35% polyester blend) can likely provide good electrostatic filtering of particles. We found that four layers of silk (as maybe the case for a wrapped scarf) provided good protection across the 10 nm to 6 μm range of particulates.

Combining layers to form hybrid masks, leveraging mechanical and electrostatic filtering may be an effective approach. This could include high thread count cotton combined with two layers of natural silk or chiffon, for instance. A quilt consisting of two layers of cotton sandwiching a cotton−polyester batting also worked well. In all of these cases, the filtration efficiency was >80% for <300 nm and >90% for >300 nm sized particles.

The filtration properties noted in (i) through (iii) pertain to the intrinsic properties of the mask material and do not take into account the effect of air leaks that arise due to improper “fit” of a mask on the user’s face. It is critically important that cloth mask designs also take into account the quality of this “fit” to minimize leakage of air between the mask and the contours of the face, while still allowing the exhaled air to be vented effectively. Such leakage can significantly reduce mask effectiveness and are a reason why properly worn N95 masks and masks with elastomeric fittings work so well.

In conclusion, we have measured the filtration efficiencies of various commonly available fabrics for use as cloth masks in filtering particles in the significant (for aerosol-based virus transmission) size range of ∼10 nm to ∼6 μm and have presented filtration efficiency data as a function of aerosol particle size. We find that cotton, natural silk, and chiffon can provide good protection, typically above 50% in the entire 10 nm to 6.0 μm range, provided they have a tight weave. Higher threads per inch cotton with tighter weaves resulted in better filtration efficiencies. For instance, a 600 TPI cotton sheet can provide average filtration efficiencies of 79 ± 23% (in the 10 nm to 300 nm range) and 98.4 ± 0.2% (in the 300 nm to 6 μm range). A cotton quilt with batting provides 96 ± 2% (10 nm to 300 nm) and 96.1 ± 0.3% (300 nm to 6 μm). Likely the highly tangled fibrous nature of the batting aids in the superior performance at small particle sizes. Materials such as silk and chiffon are particularly effective (considering their sheerness) at excluding particles in the nanoscale regime (<∼100 nm), likely due to electrostatic effects that result in charge transfer with nanoscale aerosol particles. A four-layer silk (used, for instance, as a scarf) was surprisingly effective with an average efficiency of >85% across the 10 nm −6 μm particle size range. As a result, we found that hybrid combinations of cloths such as high threads-per-inch cotton along with silk, chiffon, or flannel can provide broad filtration coverage across both the nanoscale (<300 nm) and micron scale
(300 nm to 6 μm) range, likely due to the combined effects of electrostatic and physical filtering. Finally, it is important to note that openings and gaps (such as those between the mask edge and the facial contours) can degrade the performance. Our findings indicate that leakages around the mask area can degrade efficiencies by ∼50% or more, pointing out the importance of “fit”. Opportunities for future studies include cloth mask design for better “fit” and the role of factors such as humidity (arising from exhalation) and the role of repeated use and washing of cloth masks. In summary, we find that the use of cloth masks can potentially provide significant protection against the transmission of particles in the aerosol size range.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252
 
Seems at least one person at that Lake of the Ozarks Memorial Day pool party tested positive and visited multiple bars.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/us/ozarks-missouri-party-coronavirus/index.html

Also some more news at that Missouri Great Clips salon where 2 workers tested positive and worked for about a week each potentially exposing over 100 clients. Reportedly everyone was wearing masks and so far the first 42 clients tested were negative for the virus.

https://www.kmbc.com/article/first-...ield-greene-county-health-department/32712652
 
Interesting commentary out of Norway on re-evaluating what they did in response to CV19.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article...9a-115nkAcy92Yv4kx0mTeeSaJBcneMj0EYuxXJj0dD7w

This raises an awkward question: was lockdown necessary? What did it achieve that could not have been achieved by voluntary social distancing? Camilla Stoltenberg, director of Norway’s public health agency, has given an interview where she is candid about the implications of this discovery. ‘Our assessment now, and I find that there is a broad consensus in relation to the reopening, was that one could probably achieve the same effect – and avoid part of the unfortunate repercussions – by not closing. But, instead, staying open with precautions to stop the spread.’ This is important to admit, she says, because if the infection levels rise again – or a second wave hits in the winter – you need to be brutally honest about whether lockdown proved effective.​
 
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Not exactly. Just pointing out how those bashing the WHO before for not being trustworthy are now using the WHO as a primary source to support their argument now.
Just like pointing out how those hailing the WHO before for being trustworthy are now saying the WHO shouldn't be a primary source to support an argument now.

Hmm.....
 
I also saw a guy walking yesterday which was hot who looked like the invisible man complete with goggles. He was so wrapped up it was ridiculous but he is one of the sheep being led.
Sounds like this guy was heading to the Hillsborough SR!
:)
 
The WHO doctor said if someone is healthy they don’t have to wear a mask. That is obvious. The issue is how do you know for certain that you are healthy? You can have the disease and not know it. That’s the biggest issue with this thing. So it is just common curtesy, for now, to wear a mask if you can’t social distance. I don’t understand why this is even an issue or a big deal. Just do it. Don’t be an ahole
 
The WHO doctor said if someone is healthy they don’t have to wear a mask. That is obvious. The issue is how do you know for certain that you are healthy? You can have the disease and not know it. That’s the biggest issue with this thing. So it is just common curtesy, for now, to wear a mask if you can’t social distance. I don’t understand why this is even an issue or a big deal. Just do it. Don’t be an ahole
Most people are not doing it, this ship has sailed. Also, when the doc says "healthy" I believe he means comorbidities.
 
One experts take on the WHO mask guidelines:

The answer may come down to practicality, according to Dr. William Schaffner, medical director of the National Foundation for Infectious Diseases.

At this point in the United States' outbreak, nearly everyone can find a mask or make one, Schaffner explained, which may not be true in every country around the world, especially countries with fewer resources than the U.S.

Advising universal mask wearing in a place where it's impossible to adhere to that guidance could hurt the WHO's reputation in those countries, he explained.

Another possible risk in places where masks aren't universally available is the potential for health care workers to be unable to get them, leaving them unprotected while caring for sick patients. Earlier in the U.S. outbreak, when masks were scarcer, Surgeon General Jerome Adams told everyday Americans to stop buying masks for this very reason.

"A lot of public heath is how can we take the theory and the science and bring it down the the average person," Schaffner said. "Public health has to be practical. Otherwise it doesn't work."

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/cdc-offer-conflicting-advice-masks-expert-tells-us/story?id=70958380
 
from a WHO doctor herself....IF YOU ARE HEALTHY YOU SHOULD NOT BE WEARING A MASK

bac you're a lot smarter than this, first off, what exactly is it that is being controlled when you wear a mask? Second, it's already established that there are plenty of asymptomatic folks who can infect people. WHO saying only when you are around sick people should you wear a mask is down right stupid. 3) You don't need a clinical study to determine what is common sense. Wearing a mask is common sense to stop the spread of the disease.

Just like I think democrats are wrong on the HCQ issue, Republicans really need to use some common sense on the mask issue.

People really need to remove their politics hat when it comes to covid19. I am right leaning when it comes to politics. But come on man. Apply common sense.
 
Not sure why everyone is trying to argue this point with the trolls who are more interested in pushing their agenda.

We all know they are not necessary in outdoor open spaces where you can maintain sufficient distance with others. In a concert or stadium setting where I may encounter strangers with less than 2-3 feet of distance between us, I would wear one.

Masks work. We all know they do.
 
Seems at least one person at that Lake of the Ozarks Memorial Day pool party tested positive and visited multiple bars.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/us/ozarks-missouri-party-coronavirus/index.html

Also some more news at that Missouri Great Clips salon where 2 workers tested positive and worked for about a week each potentially exposing over 100 clients. Reportedly everyone was wearing masks and so far the first 42 clients tested were negative for the virus.

https://www.kmbc.com/article/first-...ield-greene-county-health-department/32712652

The Salon experiment is a good one. If everyone is negative it really shows with proper precautions you can limit the spread and businesses like that should be able to open.
 
The Salon experiment is a good one. If everyone is negative it really shows with proper precautions you can limit the spread and businesses like that should be able to open.
That's kind of why I've followed that story a little. If the reports are true that the workers and clients were all wearing masks seeing how many come out of that positive could be an observation on the usefulness masks.

Mind you a client could test positive and got infected somewhere else too so it's hard to draw a substantive conclusion with just a few one offs but seeing whether or not a cluster forms from that salon would make for an interesting observation imo.
 
That's kind of why I've followed that story a little. If the reports are true that the workers and clients were all wearing masks seeing how many come out of that positive could be an observation on the usefulness masks.

Mind you a client could test positive and got infected somewhere else too so it's hard to draw a substantive conclusion with just a few one offs but seeing whether or not a cluster forms from that salon would make for an interesting observation imo.

Agree. The variables aren't all known. Also ........

Successful Infection = Exposure to Virus x Time
 
Agree. The variables aren't all known. Also ........

Successful Infection = Exposure to Virus x Time
Yes and in a salon there's a decent chance the time element could be reached because you're probably there anywhere from 20min to a hour depending on what's being done and also if there's a wait but I don't know if salons have cut out the waiting room element now. So then the exposure element is unknown and it'll be interesting to see how much the mask wearing of both carrier and the exposed reduce potential infections.

There was also this article posted in one of these threads by another poster about the subways in Japan and coming out of a state of emergency and so far they haven't traced any clusters back to the subway. Most people are quiet and wearing masks. They found cluster from other places like gyms/bars etc..

From the article:

Not surprisingly, they found that most clusters originated in gyms, pubs, live music venues, karaoke rooms, and similar establishments where people gather, eat and drink, chat, sing, and work out or dance, rubbing shoulders for relatively extended periods of time. They also concluded that most of the primary cases that touched off large clusters were either asymptomatic or had very mild symptoms. “It is impossible to stop the emergence of clusters just by testing many people,” Oshitani says. This led them to urge people to avoid what they dubbed the “three Cs”—closed spaces, crowds, and close-contact settings in which people are talking face-to-face. It sounds simple. But, “This has been the most important component of the strategy,” Oshitani says.

(Reassuringly, they did not trace any clusters to Japan’s notoriously packed commuter trains. Oshitani says riders are usually alone and not talking to other passengers. And lately, they are all wearing masks. “An infected individual can infect others in such an environment, but it must be rare,” he says. He says Japan would have seen large outbreaks traced to trains if airborne transmission of the virus was possible.)

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/japan-ends-its-covid-19-state-emergency
 
Yes and in a salon there's a decent chance the time element could be reached because you're probably there anywhere from 20min to a hour depending on what's being done and also if there's a wait but I don't know if salons have cut out the waiting room element now. So then the exposure element is unknown and it'll be interesting to see how much the mask wearing of both carrier and the exposed reduce potential infections.

There was also this article posted in one of these threads by another poster about the subways in Japan and coming out of a state of emergency and so far they haven't traced any clusters back to the subway. Most people are quiet and wearing masks. They found cluster from other places like gyms/bars etc..

From the article:

Not surprisingly, they found that most clusters originated in gyms, pubs, live music venues, karaoke rooms, and similar establishments where people gather, eat and drink, chat, sing, and work out or dance, rubbing shoulders for relatively extended periods of time. They also concluded that most of the primary cases that touched off large clusters were either asymptomatic or had very mild symptoms. “It is impossible to stop the emergence of clusters just by testing many people,” Oshitani says. This led them to urge people to avoid what they dubbed the “three Cs”—closed spaces, crowds, and close-contact settings in which people are talking face-to-face. It sounds simple. But, “This has been the most important component of the strategy,” Oshitani says.

(Reassuringly, they did not trace any clusters to Japan’s notoriously packed commuter trains. Oshitani says riders are usually alone and not talking to other passengers. And lately, they are all wearing masks. “An infected individual can infect others in such an environment, but it must be rare,” he says. He says Japan would have seen large outbreaks traced to trains if airborne transmission of the virus was possible.)

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/japan-ends-its-covid-19-state-emergency
We will never reach that level of compliance and personal responsibility here.
 
bac you're a lot smarter than this, first off, what exactly is it that is being controlled when you wear a mask? Second, it's already established that there are plenty of asymptomatic folks who can infect people. WHO saying only when you are around sick people should you wear a mask is down right stupid. 3) You don't need a clinical study to determine what is common sense. Wearing a mask is common sense to stop the spread of the disease.

Just like I think democrats are wrong on the HCQ issue, Republicans really need to use some common sense on the mask issue.

People really need to remove their politics hat when it comes to covid19. I am right leaning when it comes to politics. But come on man. Apply common sense.


this is a doctor saying it not me

we also have various Fauci statements at odds with each other

it is my opinion its a control thing
 
Not exactly. Just pointing out how those bashing the WHO before for not being trustworthy are now using the WHO as a primary source to support their argument now.
and the opposite would also be true, yes? that those who trusted the WHO before are not suggesting they are not trustworthy.. right?
 
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so what kind of spikes are big cities going to see from the riots. certainly no social distancing going on
Will be very curious to see. If there are no spikes, there is no more story to tell about keeping businesses closed (unless they push the outside only argument).
 
Sad that this thread is being taken over by the issue of wearing masks outside.

Not every situation is the same with regard to wearing masks outside.

Walking in my neighborhood, nobody is wearing a mask. People walk to the right and generally acknowledge each other with a wave or a nod. Walking on the five mile old train line that runs from Albany to our town, again, nobody is wearing a mask. If you meet someone and start talking, we do it at a safe distance.

Wearing a mask in a car.............ridiculous.

However, if we go to get coffee a one of the food trucks and we are in a line, then we wear a mask. If I have to talk to someone outside and I can't keep six feet apart, then wear the mask.

One size does not fit all.
 
bac you're a lot smarter than this, first off, what exactly is it that is being controlled when you wear a mask? Second, it's already established that there are plenty of asymptomatic folks who can infect people. WHO saying only when you are around sick people should you wear a mask is down right stupid. 3) You don't need a clinical study to determine what is common sense. Wearing a mask is common sense to stop the spread of the disease.

Just like I think democrats are wrong on the HCQ issue, Republicans really need to use some common sense on the mask issue.

People really need to remove their politics hat when it comes to covid19. I am right leaning when it comes to politics. But come on man. Apply common sense.
He can be, but he's being hyper-political here and not scientific and neither issue is a political one at heart. Scientifically, there's zero doubt that masks significantly reduce transmission, although they're not 100% effective (but we only need about 50-75% effective to greatly reduce spread) and scientifically, there's zero doubt that HCQ is not effective in hospitalized patients - the jury is still out on its use as a prophylactic or on mildly ill patients. You will find very, very few scientists who disagree with any of that. The fact that some of it has become political is secondary.
 
Certainly not without unified political leadership - they have that on mask wearing in the countries that are 95+% wearing masks - we don't.
Each time I am out and about in a store I see that a good percentage of customers either have their mask around their neck or their nose is out. Sad to see people cannot comply with such a simple concept.
 
Each time I am out and about in a store I see that a good percentage of customers either have their mask around their neck or their nose is out. Sad to see people cannot comply with such a simple concept.

This. And they are the first to complain that things are not opening fast enough. Their inconsiderate selfish actions will only further the delay the recovery time period for all.
 
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