Darrel Hazel
- Thread starter vkj91
- Start date
Again with this. First, it's not just me who "loves" the MAC take a look at where some of the greatest coaches have stopped a long the way. Second, I am realistic as to our budget. Let's make believe we raise 2.5 -3 million for a coach. That's solid P5 money but not enough to get a guy to leave his current job to come here. That leaves you with guys who have either been fired, are about to be fired, or know their situation is deteriorating. Since you obviously know better why don't you give me the names of guys we can afford who aren't from the MAC.
John O. clearly stated in one of his posts that the money is there. So this "we're broke, we're broke!" thing is false. We can hire a P5 coach.
I only agree because Schiano would have figured out how to hold L'Ville. But I also think he may have given away a different game that year so who knows.
Keep in mind- 2012 was a great D and they actually played like a great D...the offense was going to suck no matter who coached them.
IMO Arkansas is the game we lose that season if Schiano was the coach. The team looked very relaxed and carefree during the game, I believe it had something to do with their pretty solid offensive production that day.
I also think Schiano beats Pitt on the road that year and Louisville at home. I'll say he loses to Kent State still just for his yearly WTF game to be fair.
That puts us at 10-2 on the season headed to a BCS bowl game to play Florida and mop the floor with them to put us at 11-2 on the year.
John O said the money is there so that we can pay a coach a typical P5 salary. That is a lot different than hiring a P5 coach. If you think we are going to hire a current coach away from another program I'd love to see who you think is leaving their current gig for this one. I can think of just one or two who might be desirable choices for Rutgers. the fact is not many P5 coaches leave their job willingly to go to another P5 school. I believe there are less than 10 instances who are current head coaches right now.
Otherwise you're looking at P5 coordinators or head coaches in the MAC, C-USA, AAC and Mountain West.
What about a Charlie Strong if things dont work out at Texas (which is entirely possible). Or maybe a Lane Kiffin type guy, big big big big name is what Rutgers football needs. Not some bum from the MAC that's known as an up and comer.
Charlie Strong has to get fired before he'd be available to us. If he were available then I would think he makes sense and is at least worth a conversation - but he's not available and so becomes a wish more than an option worth discussing.
Kiffin has had 1 good year as a head coach and has soooo much baggage. For instance, the rumors that he either slept with Saban's daughter or a booster's wife are actually believable...which is why they're so funny.
I would love to have a big name come in and get a real "WOW" reaction (for the right reasons) from public and fans and recruits. But I don't see many of those burning up Hermann's phone lines if/when there is a vacancy. But to me, more important than a big name is to get a good coach. A coach who can get us more wins on the field because of his ability to coach. If that guy comes from the MAC then I am all for it. I just want a real football coach, preferably one with head coaching experience and one who has expertise on one side of the ball.
Kiffin has had 1 good year as a head coach and has soooo much baggage. For instance, the rumors that he either slept with Saban's daughter or a booster's wife are actually believable...which is why they're so funny.
I would love to have a big name come in and get a real "WOW" reaction (for the right reasons) from public and fans and recruits. But I don't see many of those burning up Hermann's phone lines if/when there is a vacancy. But to me, more important than a big name is to get a good coach. A coach who can get us more wins on the field because of his ability to coach. If that guy comes from the MAC then I am all for it. I just want a real football coach, preferably one with head coaching experience and one who has expertise on one side of the ball.
I just have absolutely no interest in MAC coaches. Seems like there's a new big team/big coaching name every single year, the league just changes every season. There's not enough consistency to pinpoint a coach and say he's the one.
P5 is a whole different level. Getting someone that knows how the ins and outs of a P5 program is important
It is difficult to find a good coach in the MAC. there are no sure things and that is true everywhere. No matter where you look there are going to be question marks and uncertainty.
If you are looking for P5 experience and you want someone that knows the ins and outs of P5 programs then you are likely hiring a P5 coordinator who likely does not have head coaching experience. So there is going to be some kind of trade off. Some coordinators are just good coordinators. Like I said earlier, there just aren't that many P5 coaches who are going to be leaving their current job to coach Rutgers - at least, not a lot of desirable options. The only other choice is to hope to get lucky and a good coach gets fired from current gig and becomes available (like the Strong example). And even then you have questions as to why they're getting fired.
If you are looking for P5 experience and you want someone that knows the ins and outs of P5 programs then you are likely hiring a P5 coordinator who likely does not have head coaching experience. So there is going to be some kind of trade off. Some coordinators are just good coordinators. Like I said earlier, there just aren't that many P5 coaches who are going to be leaving their current job to coach Rutgers - at least, not a lot of desirable options. The only other choice is to hope to get lucky and a good coach gets fired from current gig and becomes available (like the Strong example). And even then you have questions as to why they're getting fired.
Why is it so hard for you get that when John says the money is there he isn't talking 4 million a year. Last season 7 P5 teams had coaching changes. Only 2 of them hired coaches from other P5 schools
Wisconsin hired Chryst away from Pitt. Wisconsin isn't only a better job it's the guys hometown.
Nebraska hired Riley away from Oregon State. Not only is Nebraska a better job but it's not like RIley was lighting the world on fire. His career record at OSU was 93-80 and he was trending down. here are his records since 2010....
5-7
3-9
9-4
7-6
5-7
He has also only had one winning conference record in that time.
If strong gets fired he is guaranteed another 15-20 million he isn't running to us for a job. Still waiting for a realistic name.
Strong is a realistic name, a very realistic name. You're just in love with MAC coaches for some odd reason.
And Lane Kiffin, yet another realistic name.
Not to mention Schiano, also realistic.
If and it's a big if Strong gets fired and JH can get him to come here for what we can afford. I will chip in to build a statue of her.
Kiffin has been fired from every job he has ever had and leaves a mess in his wake. He banga coeds and his wife didn't even go with him to Alabama.
Schiano from everything weve been told wants no part of coming back here. But I'll give you him...so maybe 1.
Kiffin is not an option. For any number of reasons, he would never be considered.
Saying you don't believe strong will get fired is one thing, and that's fair. I happen to think he will because people really don't like him at Texas. If he were to get fired, IMO Julie would at least be able to get a sit down with him, which makes it a realistic name.
You know they've actually changed ADs a few times too so I don't remember who hired who. However, the current Illinois AD was at Cincy before and he hired Cincy's current basketball coach Mick Cronin. Anyway, he's under fire too for this whole Beckman player injury thing. I don't know what his status is though, if he'll survive it or not.
Pete Lembo isn't a name I'm enthused about. I've seen his record before and it's eh for me too. He did decent at Lehigh but if you see the coach before him did much better so he didn't turn anything around. At Ball State more eh to me for the most part. You know those blue/yellow/gold lines on wiki signifying division/conference/national titles. I like see a lot those lines but Lembo doesn't have many and I can't say I'm too impressed. I haven't looked at their offensive/defensive rankings either. It doesn't mean he isn't good but it's just not something I could say much about. I haven't looked at Ball States rankings. There's no MAC coach I'm enamored by but I'd take Babers over him.
Matt Campbell is a name I think isn't too bad and he's actually been there for a bit too. His record seems good. But Beckman failed when he moved up and the coach before Beckman, Tom Anstutz had a good 5 seasons to start before he fizzled his last 3. So I kinda want to like Campbell but I want to see more results. He's just starting his 4th year there and I'd want to see more division titles or even conference titles. I like him more than some other names I've seen tossed around though.
As to Kiffin no thanks. He recruited well at USC and had great recruiting classes but wasn't good. As a recruiter ok, as a HC no way. His reactions on the sidelines make me wonder if he's matured any. Like I said with regards to Schiano changing or whomever, most people are who they are personality wise after a certain age. There might a little evolution but by and large you stay the same and in times of stress you generally would go back to your "original" character anyway. It's just human nature IMO. So no thanks to Kiffin for me
Strong is fine, if he gets fired, but I wouldn't assume that even if Texas has tons of money. I'd really need him to put a good spread OC in place though. He's had problems choosing OCs both at Louisville and Texas. Still haven't seem him perform without Bridgewater either.
Matt Campbell is a name I think isn't too bad and he's actually been there for a bit too. His record seems good. But Beckman failed when he moved up and the coach before Beckman, Tom Anstutz had a good 5 seasons to start before he fizzled his last 3. So I kinda want to like Campbell but I want to see more results. He's just starting his 4th year there and I'd want to see more division titles or even conference titles. I like him more than some other names I've seen tossed around though.
As to Kiffin no thanks. He recruited well at USC and had great recruiting classes but wasn't good. As a recruiter ok, as a HC no way. His reactions on the sidelines make me wonder if he's matured any. Like I said with regards to Schiano changing or whomever, most people are who they are personality wise after a certain age. There might a little evolution but by and large you stay the same and in times of stress you generally would go back to your "original" character anyway. It's just human nature IMO. So no thanks to Kiffin for me
Strong is fine, if he gets fired, but I wouldn't assume that even if Texas has tons of money. I'd really need him to put a good spread OC in place though. He's had problems choosing OCs both at Louisville and Texas. Still haven't seem him perform without Bridgewater either.
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Did a quick lookup of Lembo and Campbell's rankings HCs and coordinator.
Lembo is still eh for me but some good years. I like Campbell a little more after looking these stats up though.
,
Lembo's total offense (68,27,20,95) and scoring offense (72,34,16,73)/total defense (119,103,78,89) and scoring defense (103,92,47,70). A couple good offensive years but the rest eh.
Campbell's 2 years as OC total offense (74,10) and scoring offense(54,8)
Campbell as HC total offense (31,40,15) and scoring offense (44,40,18)/total defense(110,88,73) and scoring defense(67,74,86)
So Campbell does put out some decent to good offenses, defense could use some improvement.
Lembo is still eh for me but some good years. I like Campbell a little more after looking these stats up though.
,
Lembo's total offense (68,27,20,95) and scoring offense (72,34,16,73)/total defense (119,103,78,89) and scoring defense (103,92,47,70). A couple good offensive years but the rest eh.
Campbell's 2 years as OC total offense (74,10) and scoring offense(54,8)
Campbell as HC total offense (31,40,15) and scoring offense (44,40,18)/total defense(110,88,73) and scoring defense(67,74,86)
So Campbell does put out some decent to good offenses, defense could use some improvement.
First, I want to commend you for the amount of research you put Into your posts about candidates. I don't consider myself a super analytical guy but I watch tons of college games. Most of my opinions are based on film, interviews, and talking to HS coaches. One thing I always try to take into account is assistant budget. It's great to say someone's offense was ranked x, y, or z but as we've learned all staffs aren't created equal. For example, although I love Herman, I'm pretty sure Houston is spending more on assistants than a majority if AAC schools. Shouldn't we expect the results to be better? I guess this is just another reason so many coaches fail when they make the jump.
Boosters are powerful everywhere. Hell Greg Brown is poor by real booster standards and he has tons of influence. Any AD worth his/her salt is going to evaluate the situation and make the best decision they can. Texas isn't hiring Stoneybrooks AD. Guy is coming in with an agenda and if he's smart Strong gets one more year so he can survey the scene. Only other scenario I see playing out is Texas takes an AD from a power school and he simply brings the guy he already has in place.
Thanks but it's not really too much work. A lot of the stuff you can find in the ncaa stats archive pages and just switch the year and teams. Some stuff I go to ESPN. It's fun to talk about but if it was too much effort I wouldn't bother. I do want to have as full a picture as possible though if I'm going to talk about it.
Assistants is something to take into account but as I've said before most of your competition is in your conference and I'd generally think budgets within the conference are similar for the most part. I know Fuente just got upped to 1.4M and Herman makes 1.3. I don't know the budgets of the staffs, I do know Fuente just lost his DC to Mizzou. He was making about 370K at Memphis, The new guy makes less now. Todd Orlando I think is the highest paid non P5 assistant but he makes 500K so is that huge difference? Eh maybe, but I don't think earth shattering. Can't comment on the rest of the staff but even if it's better it's no guarantee. Hoke's staff was very high priced too along with so many others, what did that get him?
Point is I think it's up to the HC to make up whatever difference (which I don't think should be too much) might be between teams within your conference. If he can't do it there, what can we expect when we need the same kind of thing competing against the Michigans/OSUs of the world.
I also watch a lot of games but there's no way possible to watch so many and know everything about every mid major coach and all the smaller teams out there. So going to the rankings is a way to find out what these guys have done and it's a dispassionate measure. High school coaches sound good but after what they've given us with Rice/FHJ/Flood I'd take anything they say with a mountain of salt.
You know another point about Fuente is this will be his 2nd qb in Paxton Lynch that he's developed into a solid one. Andy Dalton was the qb at TCU when he was there. For you recruiting guys, I read both were 2 star rated.
Also did a quick lookup on Baber's rankings in his 1 year there so far at BG
Babers 2014 total offense (44) scoring offense (58) and total defense(122) scoring defense (109)
Through 3 games this year the offensive numbers have improved but the defensive numbers are still just as bad.
As a point of comparison in Clawson's last 2 years at BG.
Clawson 2012/2013 total offense (91,30) scoring offense (92,29) total defense (7,10) scoring defense (10,5)
So it looks like the offense is about the same as Clawson's last year. It does look like a jump in the offense might happen this year though but that's only based off 3 games. The defense though has just fallen off a cliff, a very high one. From top 10 defenses all the way back too the 100s. That's a huge drop in performance. I like high powered offenses but you need some semblance of a defense. I actually expect weak defense with these spreads of today but it can't that bad. Something in the 50-60s is adequate for me but 100s is unacceptable.
Also did a quick lookup on Baber's rankings in his 1 year there so far at BG
Babers 2014 total offense (44) scoring offense (58) and total defense(122) scoring defense (109)
Through 3 games this year the offensive numbers have improved but the defensive numbers are still just as bad.
As a point of comparison in Clawson's last 2 years at BG.
Clawson 2012/2013 total offense (91,30) scoring offense (92,29) total defense (7,10) scoring defense (10,5)
So it looks like the offense is about the same as Clawson's last year. It does look like a jump in the offense might happen this year though but that's only based off 3 games. The defense though has just fallen off a cliff, a very high one. From top 10 defenses all the way back too the 100s. That's a huge drop in performance. I like high powered offenses but you need some semblance of a defense. I actually expect weak defense with these spreads of today but it can't that bad. Something in the 50-60s is adequate for me but 100s is unacceptable.
His D numbers are a bit skewed by giving up 110 points to Wisconsin and Indiana. Last season.
Looks like Babers hired a new DC for this year so he must have recognized they weren't getting the job done on that side of the ball. Even though it does look like it was the same DC that was there under Clawson previously.
Speaking of Clawson...thoughts? If you were to put together a list of current, desirable, gettable P5 coaches I think he'd be on there (for me anyway).
Speaking of Clawson...thoughts? If you were to put together a list of current, desirable, gettable P5 coaches I think he'd be on there (for me anyway).
What is this year 2 for him at Wake? I know some HS coaches that really like him I'm not sure what his buyout is.
Strong needs to prove something beyond winning with Teddy Bridgewater. If you can't win bigger than he is Texas and you can't recruit at Texas, well...
Kiffen. He is a joke. Decent coordinator, horrible head coach. He is viewed at USC like Flood is here. Pass without consideration.
Kiffen. He is a joke. Decent coordinator, horrible head coach. He is viewed at USC like Flood is here. Pass without consideration.
Yeah, year 2 at Wake. Year 1 he was just dealing with the mess that was left behind by Grobe. They won only 3 games: Gardner -Webb, Army and a 6-3 OT thriller against Va Tech. I've read some stuff about him and I think he has the potential to be good.
I didn't look but ok. But this year's defensive numbers through 3 games aren't any better. The rankings are still in the 100s on defense. And also that's a huge drop to be skewed just from 2 games. There are 12 games in a season. Top 10 defense Clawson's last 2 years with Elko as DC to basically bottom of the barrel. Wisconsin I'll say ok and while Indiana is a good offense, I think you have to do better.
This year you have to reserve a little judgement on his D. He's a MAC team that has gone to Tenn and to Maryland and then hosted one of best offenses in the county in Memphis. So they, theoretically, should be getting run up on. We'll see how his defenses play in the MAC to get an idea of how they stack up relative to their peers.
It's still early this year I agree. Memphis' offense is ranked in the top 10 for both total/scoring but I really haven't mentioned because it is early and I'd like to see how the season plays out. Yes it is early to evaluate BG's defense so far this year but in combination with last year which was a full year and noting the huge drop off from Clawson's last 2 years would concern me.
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