Defense

[fluoxetine]

Every year we have a great to elite defense that, like every defense, will get torched by a team that can execute great ball movement and hit their threes.

Every year there are a few games where the opposing offense executes extremely well and the defense gets beat badly.

Every year the usual suspects then go on to whine endlessly about “perimeter defense” while praising the exact same defense when the opponent bricks.

 

[Degaz-RU]

All true, but our defense WAS noticeably more aggressive and had better rotations in the 2nd half. In the first half, OSU was getting so many open looks. Not so in the 2nd half.

 

[fluoxetine]

All true, but our defense WAS noticeably more aggressive and had better rotations in the 2nd half. In the first half, OSU was getting so many open looks. Not so in the 2nd half.

I agree that we played better defense in the 2nd half, but not by anywhere close to enough to fully explain the difference in Ohio State’s scoring output.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

I’ll bite

The defense in the first half was very very slow in rotating …and it started witb ball screens thsr got guys getting a step and the ball rotated a LOT faster than the rotation…and there weee a lot of wide open three in rhythm

As we settled down …it stsrted with getting up on rhe defender much further than the basket , with a much better force (wolf was really good at this ) out high ….and the rotation to help C when needed , was there in time to contest for forxe them to putt the ball on the deck

Forcing them to start their offense much further from the basket changed a lot of things

Defensive adjustment

 

[S_Janowski]

Not sure I get the point of this OP

Better defense helped get us back in the game. We were swarming them and they didn’t have as many wide open looks.

They also cooled off and we had better shot selection on offense ourselves (which helped give us a much better chance at rebounding and controlling the pace of play).

So it was a combination of multiple factors, including much better defense.

 

[fluoxetine]

Not sure I get the point of this OP

Better defense helped get us back in the game. We were swarming them and they didn’t have as many wide open looks.

They also cooled off and we had better shot selection on offense ourselves (which helped give us a much better chance at rebounding and controlling the pace of play).

So it was a combination of multiple factors, including much better defense.

This is all fair.

the point is directed at the set that basically refuse to acknowledge that there exists a part outside the defense’s control. A large part when it comes to three point percentage. Some team could come and go 20/20 from three and that contingent would claim that is entirely the fault of the defense

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The answer is somewhere in between. Probably more closer to what flux is hinting at.

 

[zappaa]

2nd half defensive intensity and commitment was the reason OSU was slowed down Flux.
Looked completely different, Mag and Cliff super active!

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The theoretical question to ask….
What was expected make percentage of OSU looks in half 1?
What was expected make percentage of OSU looks in half 2?

How much of the difference was due to OSU having hot dice in half 1

 

[fluoxetine]

2nd half defensive intensity and commitment was the reason OSU was slowed down Flux
Looked completely different Mag and Cliff super active

Defense was much better in the 2nd half which was a primary factor in reducing their three point attempts from 15 to 9. It was not the primary factor in reducing their 3p% from 60% to 22%

 

[Scarlet Shack]

The theoretical question to ask….
What was expected make percentage of OSU looks in half 1?
What was expected make percentage of OSU looks in half 2?

How much of the difference was due to OSU having hot dice in half 1

I really thought the number of clean looks in the first half was much higher than the second

Hence the big difference in shooting percentage

 

[fluoxetine]

The theoretical question to ask….
What was expected make percentage of OSU looks in half 1?
What was expected make percentage of OSU looks in half 2?

How much of the difference was due to OSU having hot dice in half 1

I don’t know but I would guess the difference is not more than 5%

 

[bac2therac]

Every year we have a great to elite defense that, like every defense, will get torched by a team that can execute great ball movement and hit their threes.

Every year there are a few games where the opposing offense executes extremely well and the defense gets beat badly.

Every year the usual suspects then go on to whine endlessly about “perimeter defense” while praising the exact same defense when the opponent bricks.

okay if you cannot see the difference between our first half and second half i suggest you rewatch the game on what we were doing

there were committments to double teams, Rutgers was forcing OSU to expend more time on the shot clock, they were forcing shots that were now being rushed and forcing other guys besides Battle/Thorton to take them

 

[Scangg]

We played poor defense in the first half but even if all 11 shots were open most teams don't make 9 out of 11 threes. It's not a hard concept

We played much better defense second half but they still had plenty of open 3's that were missed

Importantly we stopped Battle from getting as many looks and shut down Thorton scoring and creating as many open looks

 

[fluoxetine]

okay if you cannot see the difference between our first half and second half i suggest you rewatch the game on what we were doing

there were committments to double teams, Rutgers was forcing OSU to expend more time on the shot clock, they were forcing shots that were now being rushed and forcing other guys besides Battle/Thorton to take them

I can see it but the main impact is to limit the attempts. The affect on actual make percentage is not zero, but also not that large and definitely not close to the ~40% difference that actually occurred

 

[bac2therac]

Ohio state was very comfortable in the first half, they were not very comfortable in the 2nd half

 

[RAC93]

Ohio state was very comfortable in the first half, they were not very comfortable in the 2nd half

Agreed, Thornton kept getting to spots on the court and into the paint where he was comfortable, especially against Noah and JMike, he was like a man playing against kids. AWilliams made things more uncomfortable for him in 2nd half and others picked up the defensive intensity at the same time. Thornton still had his impact in 2nd half, but it was certainly less comfortable for him, Battle also, compared to the 1st half.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I don’t know but I would guess the difference is not more than 5%

I know we did this and had NBA evidence and i preach stats/data over eyeballs……but has to be higher than that.

I know i dont have math on my side

 

[BillyC80]

Ohio state was very comfortable in the first half, they were not very comfortable in the 2nd half

This. I was gonna start a thread on this concept/strategy, because I think it deserves special attention, but I’ll do it here instead.

The first half looked like a shoot-around for OSU. I even commented to my wife, look how at-ease and confident they are shooting the long ball.

Then, a few minutes into the second half, in the game thread I posted that “something is different” and even though we were still down 11 points, I posted that it felt like we were gonna make it a game. And that’s exactly what happened.

As bac said, we made them very uncomfortable in the second half, with Austin playing tough and Mag showing flashes of his old defensive self (did you see how his lateral footwork on a few plays actually beat his man to the spot the guy was trying to dribble to? That is flat out shut-down D).

The double-teams and Cliff and at times Wolf flashing out and back to leave no one uncovered was like a work of defensive art. Later in the half Cliff also showed excellent help-D and had a beautiful block on a guy who got free.

No moral victories but you can say categorically that we stole their lunch money, beat them down and absolutely won the second half. Despite missing open looks we outscored OSU 40-31 in that half. Even their coach, who looked relatively relaxed in the first half, looked like he was in panic mode when we fought to within 1 point at the 3:20 mark.

The elixir for this team is defense, no doubt, but we played like winners in every facet during that second half. Despite digging a 17-point hole in the first half, we just needed one more 3 and one more 2 to go down for us to win it in the end.

 

[RU-ROCS]

All true, but our defense WAS noticeably more aggressive and had better rotations in the 2nd half. In the first half, OSU was getting so many open looks. Not so in the 2nd half.

True. But even shooting totally uncontested shots in an empty gym, Battle and OSU probabably could not have shot at a much higher percentage from three than they did in the first half last night. They were sizzling hot.

 

[richthedentist]

All true, but our defense WAS noticeably more aggressive and had better rotations in the 2nd half. In the first half, OSU was getting so many open looks. Not so in the 2nd half.

It wasn't even rotations we just stayed on our men and we guarded the three; there was no need to sag off our men and leave them wide open!!
Also two adjustments in the second half which should have been made sooner was he brought in Austin Williams to guard Thornton and he put Mag on Battle and look what happened why these adjustments weren't made sooner is beyond me
As an aside Pikell in his postgame said they made some acrobatic 3's in the first half!! No way we just left them wide open

 

[G- RUnit]

Defense was fine 2nd half. Nice adjustments by Pike.
And no team was going to stay that hot.

I think bigger issue which not many are talking about is once again a ridiculously slow start by RU. Why the slow starts all the time? One game we didn’t have a slow start, SHU, we won rather comfortably.

 

[Scangg]

Defense was fine 2nd half. Nice adjustments by Pike.
And no team was going to stay that hot.

I think bigger issue which not many are talking about is once again a ridiculously slow start by RU. Why the slow starts all the time? One game we didn’t have a slow start, SHU, we won rather comfortably.

We had an early lead. It was the 2nd half of the first half that was the disaster

 

[goru7]

It wasn't even rotations we just stayed on our men and we guarded the three; there was no need to sag off our men and leave them wide open!!
Also two adjustments in the second half which should have been made sooner was he brought in Austin Williams to guard Thornton and he put Mag on Battle and look what happened why these adjustments weren't made sooner is beyond me
As an aside Pikell in his postgame said they made some acrobatic 3's in the first half!! No way we just left them wide open

They weren’t made sooner because our guards Noah and Derek were scoring which we desperately needed. Pike thought he could have JMike and his quickness handle Thornton but that did not help. Pike tried Austin and it turned out to be a terrific move . Austin has not exactly been lighting it up offensively and his defense has not been super elite up until that second half. Thornton was more bulk than speed which helped Austin handle him and stay with him and get a block and some forced tougher shots. Give Pike credit not your criticism

 

[G- RUnit]

We had an early lead. It was the 2nd half of the first half that was the disaster

Okay I’ll play. Bad first half’s. Or is it halves?

 

[bethlehemfan]

Agreed, Thornton kept getting to spots on the court and into the paint where he was comfortable, especially against Noah and JMike, he was like a man playing against kids. AWilliams made things more uncomfortable for him in 2nd half and others picked up the defensive intensity at the same time. Thornton still had his impact in 2nd half, but it was certainly less comfortable for him, Battle also, compared to the 1st half.

Williams on the guard played a big role imo. He was able to beat our guards in the first half into the paint under control so when there was help Ohio was able to dish out and swing to the open man. That got cleaned up thanks to better on ball defense to start.

 

[DC8690]

I agree that we played better defense in the 2nd half, but not by anywhere close to enough to fully explain the difference in Ohio State’s scoring output.

I agree, just watch warmups. I would think it would be hard to find a team hit 9-11 from three with no one playing defense.