Issa may be a willing defender, but last year didn't show me enough laterally to stay in front of most 2s and 3s.
Doucoure is eligible
- Thread starter Local Shill
- Start date
As the "only" Souf Mensah fan on the board ( lol ) , I am still holding on to my prediction that he starts on day 1.
Just listen to what Pikiell said about it:
“They're good … and they play well together, too,” Pikiell said. “They're kind of all interchangeable a bit, which I like. If Corey gets the rebound, he's the point guard. If Souf gets it, he's the point. They can go to other spots on the floor. And Souf is built like a cornerback. He's 6-foot-2.5, and he's 230 pounds. He's a big guard.”
Just listen to what Pikiell said about it:
“They're good … and they play well together, too,” Pikiell said. “They're kind of all interchangeable a bit, which I like. If Corey gets the rebound, he's the point guard. If Souf gets it, he's the point. They can go to other spots on the floor. And Souf is built like a cornerback. He's 6-foot-2.5, and he's 230 pounds. He's a big guard.”
Where did you read this? I do not know if he starts. I think he will be used to add instant focus, and energy.
I think Souf starts in place of Williams because Williams has been so great coming off the bench and actually seems to thrive on that. Either way, win-win situation. Gotta love it!
Yep, I've thought this same way for a way now......Williams comes off the bench to start the game, but he finishes the game on the floor when you need his toughness and knack for getting rebounds.
I am going to reply to this post, of several on minutes - because it is laid out nicely, and would be easy for me to copy and do my own edits.
Comments 1st, including responding to this, but also other posts commenting on playing time guesses:
1) Barring injury, it is obvious that Sanders, Freeman and Williams will have the most minutes - probably in that order.
2) RU will be a much better team in Thiam has gained enough conditioning - and importantly, enough improved shooting confidence to earn 18 minutes a game, or more.
3) For perspective, I have more confidence in Omoruyi improving enough to have a more important impact than Sa. First, if you look at various team pictures and video, Omoruyi is at least as tall as Freeman - though in many he looks to be at least 1" taller than Freeman, maybe even more. Which is good, since Freeman, though listed at 6'7" is in my opinion more like 6'6". Second, Omoruyi's biggest problem last year was putting the ball in the basket. His rebounding and defense were fine, if not better than fine - and he could cover anyone from the 1 to the 4 position. His basketball IQ seemed VERY high to me, with a lot of good passing decisions, in particular. So ... CAN he improve his ability to put the ball in the basket? I do not know. If he could just make his layups, his inside of 4' shots, and make SOME 10' to 12' jumpers, that would help A LOT. If he could do that I could see him getting plenty of minutes at both the 3 and the 4, and averaging 6-7 points, and 5 rebounds a game, and giving excellent defense.
My minutes - base case:
Sanders (28) Mensah (12)
Williams (18) Baker (20) Sanders (2)
Eugene (12) Thiam (18) Williams (10)
Freeman (28) Eugene (8) Doucore (4)
Sa (18) Johnson (6) Doucore (16)
I took Sanders, Freeman and Williams down a couple minutes per game each, and Baker's minutes down by 4. I edged Mensah's minutes up by 2. I took UP Thiam's minutes by 5 and Omoruyi's by 5.
From a minutes only standpoint:
Sanders - 30
Freeman - 28
Williams - 28
Baker - 20
Doucore - 20
Omoruyi - 20
Thiam - 18
Sa - 18
Mensah - 12
Johnson - 6
If Doorson can play, he takes minutes from Sa and Johnson. Nathan may get a minute or two on average ... maybe.
If Thiam continues to struggle with shooting, his minutes drop, and Baker's go up ... and Sanders' minutes as well.
If Omoruyi does NOT improve his ability to finish within 5'-8' of the basket, his minutes could decline. Baker, Williams, Sanders, Sa and Doucore could all see more minutes as a result of that.
Sanders might get 32, rather than 30 minutes per game ... but if RU sees real depth at the guard position, Sanders might produce more, even with a couple fewer minutes. One reason he got so many minutes last year was because RU did not really have a capable POINT GUARD back-up. On the other hand, I suspect the coahces might like to see Sanders play off the ball more - where he can also be dangerous (maybe not off the ball, but as 2G). My minutes distribution do not show that.
Nice synopsis Jelly.
My only reservation would be that you (and a lot of others) are minimizing Souf's minutes and defensive abilities. I really love the "bravado" thing with him and I really believe it carries him to many more minutes and he has some leadership qualities, we shall see...
You may be correct on Mensah - I really do not know what the coaching staff has planned there, and I have never seen him play at the P5 level.
But where are his minutes going to come from? Who loses minutes? As strong as Williams' effort might be, you just cannot play him too many minutes (or Mensah) at the WF/#3 position ... sure you could get away with some minutes there, but not major minutes, especially against Big Ten teams with their length at the "3" position. So, for Sanders, Mensah, Williams, Baker, there are just so many minutes (80 to be exact - maybe 90 if you stretch a little into the WF slot). With 90 minutes, you KNOW about 30, or more go to Sanders, and 26-28, at least, to Williams. That leaves 32-34 minutes for a combination of Baker and Mensah - and that is if Williams plays as many as 10 minutes per game at WF, meaning RU plays 10+ minutes per game with a 3-guard line-up. And we KNOW RU really needs 3-point shooting ... which Mensah is not really going to provide .. .but Baker MIGHT.
I guess I am glad the coaches get to make those decisions, not me!
Jelly
Very similar to mine above
How well doucoure and baker D it up and handle the rigors of frosh year determines if they play 15 (low side) or 25 (high side)
Very similar to mine above
How well doucoure and baker D it up and handle the rigors of frosh year determines if they play 15 (low side) or 25 (high side)
Somehow I believe Omoruyi will get more than 10 minutes a game. He got more than that last year and he has improved and is much stronger.
Pike and staff are really, really high on Eugene and have been for a while. Even last year, coach would always single out Eugene during press conferences and interviews for doing something positive. I believe he can and will play mostly at the 4 and will be a huge factor in our success this season and beyond.
The thing the coaches have going for them is that they can make changes as the go along. It is hard for us to sit here and allocated time on last year's play and off season assumptions.
This, as someone else posted. SP has been very pleased with Omoruyi's improvement this offseason.
I think all of the prognostications of Baker getting 20+ minutes ignores the fact that we have essentially replaced Nigel Johnson with BOTH Baker and Mensah, and with Mensah having PG skills, speed, and strength/defensive ability, I think people are selling him short in favor of Baker's supposed shooting prowess.
Does anybody know if Baker can play defense and rebound with his wiry frame? If he struggles there, his minutes sink to the 10-15 range, and frankly may even sink there just because Mensah is that good at doing what he was brought in to do (handle and defend). As someone indicated above, there are probably 85-90 minutes (including 5-10 minutes at WF) for our four "guards," about 58-62 of which are going to go to Sanders and Williams, leaving just 23-32 minutes for Baker and Mensah. I would guess that they will evenly split those minutes.
As for Thiam, it seems some people are down on his abilities in general, and doubtful of his ability to improve from freshman to sophomore year. I think it's inevitable that he will improve in all facets of the game, as he clearly has talent but was raw last year, setting the stage for him to improve as a second year player. Moreover, he showed an ability to defend both the 2 and the 3, and so if he's mainly at the 3 this year, he won't have to worry about defending quicker guards, and we know that Pike is going to play guys that play defense and rebound. I stand by my prediction of 20+ minutes for Thiam.
Does anybody know if Baker can play defense and rebound with his wiry frame? If he struggles there, his minutes sink to the 10-15 range, and frankly may even sink there just because Mensah is that good at doing what he was brought in to do (handle and defend). As someone indicated above, there are probably 85-90 minutes (including 5-10 minutes at WF) for our four "guards," about 58-62 of which are going to go to Sanders and Williams, leaving just 23-32 minutes for Baker and Mensah. I would guess that they will evenly split those minutes.
As for Thiam, it seems some people are down on his abilities in general, and doubtful of his ability to improve from freshman to sophomore year. I think it's inevitable that he will improve in all facets of the game, as he clearly has talent but was raw last year, setting the stage for him to improve as a second year player. Moreover, he showed an ability to defend both the 2 and the 3, and so if he's mainly at the 3 this year, he won't have to worry about defending quicker guards, and we know that Pike is going to play guys that play defense and rebound. I stand by my prediction of 20+ minutes for Thiam.
I'm curious......With the exception of the top 2 or 3 guys on the team, has anyone on this board ever come close to predicting Minutes for a roster of 13 players ?
http://www.mccathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2016-17/bios/mensah_souf_9yrv?view=career&pos=sh
Above are his numbers at a community college. i think expectations here need to be tempered.
Below is his schedule.
http://www.mccathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2016-17/schedule
JV teams?
Above are his numbers at a community college. i think expectations here need to be tempered.
Below is his schedule.
http://www.mccathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2016-17/schedule
JV teams?
A lot of people have seen those stats here I believe.
As far as peoples expectations, its whats being said by everyone. The coach has made an indication that he has been impressed with him.
Fans think he will come in for 10-15 minutes, defend, give high effort, and get out in transition. Also, pass to people when they are open.
As for Baker, he can grab a board and although he is not a extremely powerful kid, he has long arms. He is brought on the banks to shoot, handle, and pass well. In HS, he was never a defensive liability. I was impressed with his defense from his HS tape. I do expect him to struggle a little bit against D1 guards, but he will not stand out as a bad defender. He played both guard positions in HS.
Thiam will probably have improved, but the BIG is a powerful league. I am not sure if he has sized up enough to get more than 12 minutes a game. Like you mentioned Degaz, very raw. His best year might be the year after this when he finally fills into his frame.
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I am down to get a group in to make a prediction. The winner gets a free pizza dinner before a game on everyone else in the pool. I can find a spot nearby the stadium. It would be cool to meet some fans, and not just be a name on an online forum.
I'm surprised to see so many saying that Mensah will get so few minutes. He is the only true point guard and was brought in because the staff saw not having one as a huge problem. They need someone that can push the ball, defend, limit turnovers and control the game. At least in the early part of the year he is the guy. He will remain the guy running the point unless he proves that he can't.
I think that he'll be the main constant with so many hybrid players around him. They can go big, small and change tempos with the other guys rotating around with him on the court.
I think that he'll be the main constant with so many hybrid players around him. They can go big, small and change tempos with the other guys rotating around with him on the court.
I tweaked Shack's breakdown slightly, but it is as close to reality in conference play dependent on matchups....I don't think this is anything but an averaging over 18-20 conference games plus Florida State, Seton Hall etc...
The breakdown below is going to take into account my own assumption on what we saw early in the season.....I can only go off of memory, but Sanders played (I think) the entire 2nd half of the first conference win at PSU and while he played all 20 minutes, that's not a recipe for impactful offense or defense....
I think the staff isn't going to worry about minutes, as much as effort on defense, hustle, rebounding, boxing out and doing the little things....in order to be as effective as Mike Williams was in securing so many rebounds, you not only have to be in shape and conditioned, but you have to be fresh legged and not playing too many minutes....
Now if Mensah is prone to turning the ball over and cannot play defense, he can't play consistent minutes....I think Mensah will be a force defensively, which is why I see his minutes going up and a slight reduction of Sanders, Williams and Baker's minutes...
Baker is an automatic contributor, because he can handle the ball and score....he is not the complete offensive/defensive player that Mike Williams is, but Baker/Souf will allow a better offensive flow, which was solely reliant on Sanders to generate offense.....the staff eliminated running (to avoid giving up cheap layups off turnovers) and to give themselves a chance to offensive rebound.
Sanders 26
Freeman 26
Williams 26
Baker 23
Doucoure 22 (can he avoid fouling or foul trouble)
Thiam 22
Onamuryi 16
Sa 14
Johnson 12
Mensah 10
Nathan/Doorson (if healthy) 3
The bottom 6 teams had the following B1G records
Illinois 8-10 (8-11 if you count the B1G tourney games)
Ohio State 7-11 (7-12)
Indiana 7-11 (8-12)
Penn State 6-12 (6-13)
Nebraska 6-12 (6-13 )
Rutgers 3-15 (4-16)
As it stands right now, RU has to make up THREE full games in the league during the regular season, if the 12th and 13th teams won 6 games last year. I am confident RU will be better, but you have to temper expectations if you can safely find 3 more wins....I can say last years "swing games" were below....
Wisconsin at MSG (FT's missed but we played strong defense/NCAA team)
at Ohio State (We led a large portion of that game)
at Iowa (we led a good portion of that game) (NIT team)
at NWestern (battled and almost pulled monster upset/NCAA team)
Michigan at home late in season (Sweet 16 team)
It will take a huge jump offensively AND defensively to make up 3 of those games above.....The good news is we are not looking to make up 15 PPG in these closer losses.....they were one or two possession games.....one more stop and rebound of defense (Doucoure) and one or two more threes made per game (Baker).....
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For a team that will be offensively challenged I can't see our 3 best players on the bench for 35% of the game. If Baker can't put the ball on the floor and create we are going to see teams play suffocating D 30+ feet away from the basket that will stifel (sp?) any half court offense we want to run.
Williams, Thaim, Eugene are not guys that are going to beat you off the dribble. Freeman could beat an opposing 4, but he has shown himself to be VERY turnover prone when doing so.
As a fan I am not a fan of an offense that relies on one guy with the ball in his hands a lot. However, unless Baker can penetrate I just can't see us scoring without the ball in Sanders hands a lot.
In OOC I can see us facing a lot of zone and that changes things. But against tight man to man our offense is going to be Sanders creating for himself and hopefully others.
Williams, Thaim, Eugene are not guys that are going to beat you off the dribble. Freeman could beat an opposing 4, but he has shown himself to be VERY turnover prone when doing so.
As a fan I am not a fan of an offense that relies on one guy with the ball in his hands a lot. However, unless Baker can penetrate I just can't see us scoring without the ball in Sanders hands a lot.
In OOC I can see us facing a lot of zone and that changes things. But against tight man to man our offense is going to be Sanders creating for himself and hopefully others.
Let's see the changes Pikiell installs for the offense and let's see the improvements made by the players before we reach these conclusions about who may or may not struggle on the offensive end.
* Indications are that Freeman improved his shot out to 15 feet, which should help his ability to drive without defenders playing off of him.
* Indications are that Thiam worked on his skill set in terms of driving more towards the basket or getting off some shot range shots.
Your post seems to suggest that the only way to score is beating guys off the dribble. I anticipate seeing a lot more of a motion or uptempo offense this year.
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When would 35% of the best players not be on the floor?As important as dribble drive is, it's not everything. Pikiell is one, if not the best basketball mind the program has had in years. He has never been to the NBA, and that is a great thing.
He customizes his tactics to his players. That is the number 1 thing you want out of a coach. Not the other way around. The team will compete.
Successful half court offense certainly doesn't need dribble penetration. The threat of dribble penetration and the respect of a perimeter shooter that has range beyond the arc does wonder for the efficiency of a half court offense. Without either we are very easy to defend.
Corey is the game changer. He can beat almost anyone off the dribble. I believe, until I see the new faces, our offense goes only as far as Corey takes it. This is coming from someone who is not a Corey sanders fan.
If we are to succeed it has to come from the offensive end. Not much can be squeezed vs. last year on the defensive end. The good news is we were pitiful offensively so there is a lot of room for improvement.
Corey is the game changer. He can beat almost anyone off the dribble. I believe, until I see the new faces, our offense goes only as far as Corey takes it. This is coming from someone who is not a Corey sanders fan.
If we are to succeed it has to come from the offensive end. Not much can be squeezed vs. last year on the defensive end. The good news is we were pitiful offensively so there is a lot of room for improvement.
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