Everyone is complaining about the offense, but ….

[NickRU714]

Sunday was an outlier scoring only 57 as you cited our average of 71. My question to you is truly an answer to the offensive struggles and it is baffling.

I (half) jokingly said weeks ago we needed to lean into Ace/Dylan.
Tell them to take 90% of our shots.
Put them on one side of the floor and everyone stand in the opposite corner.

Nobody but them is allowed to dribble past mid court until 5 seconds left in the shot clock.

 

[darkcheck]

The offense has been the least of the problems as defense has cost us a number of games. What is an interesting question and puzzling as well, what in the world has happened to Dylan and ACE the last 2 games , and 3 games with ACE but that was Maryland where he got sick second half but was not himself before that . Freshman wall? But the passitivity from both and deferral has been confusing and baffling. Lathan and Dylan Grant are giving you contributions from the supporting cast , so getting Dylan and ACE back to form immediately would really help win some games down the stretch.

They expected to walk on the court and make the ncaas. The ncaa tourney is the spotlight of this one year. Regardless of where the blame lies they won’t make it. I think they’ve mailed it in. More than likely the team will finish as losers with a losing record. It’s probably mind blowing to them and they’ve checked out. Their focus is on the nba now. I can’t blame them. They’re just kids. Some may say that immature behavior is unbecoming. Perhaps. I can see the argument both ways. But here we are. The programs in a hole that it may take years, or more, if ever, to dig out of. This year was so depressing.

 

[goru7]

They expected to walk on the court and make the ncaas. The ncaa tourney is the spotlight of this one year. Regardless of where the blame lies they won’t make it. I think they’ve mailed it in. More than likely the team will finish as losers with a losing record. It’s probably mind blowing to them and they’ve checked out. Their focus is on the nba now. I can’t blame them. They’re just kids. Some may say that immature behavior is unbecoming. Perhaps. I can see the argument both ways. But here we are. The programs in a hole that it may take years, or more, if ever, to dig out of. This year was so depressing.

Wow are you dramatic. Against Illinois , who gave it their all and wanted and tried to win that game badly, Dylan and ACE did not mail it in but Dylan showed his tremendous impact.
There has been a little bit of bad luck that happened this year besides the injuries , roster construction failure and the transfer failure .
There have been a number of games lost that our group freshman and upperclassmen did not respond well down the stretch to pull out victories. It was a lot closer to getting over the top than you profess that it is “ disgusting “.
Everyone is bitterly disappointed in what our record presently is but we are not in a hole that we cannot recover from. That was already done years ago.

 

[darkcheck]

Wow are you dramatic. Against Illinois , who gave it their all and wanted and tried to win that game badly, Dylan and ACE did not mail it in but Dylan showed his tremendous impact.
There has been a little bit of bad luck that happened this year besides the injuries , roster construction failure and the transfer failure .
There have been a number of games lost that our group freshman and upperclassmen did not respond well down the stretch to pull out victories. It was a lot closer to getting over the top than you profess that it is “ disgusting “.
Everyone is bitterly disappointed in what our record presently is but we are not in a hole that we cannot recover from. That was already done years ago.

Dude you have to stop putting words in my mouth. I said depressing. Not disgusting.

Wow! Illinois. It was fun to be there for that, but the season is 31 games long. Not one.

It was a lot closer than I think. Lol. Is this horseshoes or hand grenades? Which one? Oh it’s neither and we are what our record is. Worse than last year.

Finally comical you call roster construction and transfer bad luck. They’re an exact part of the reason why the future looks bleak to me. Pike hasn’t proved he can navigate transfers or assemble a team in this NIL era. He’s had exactly two winning B1G seasons. Both were done around four players who were there for both. Geo, RHJ, Caleb and Mulchay. Only Paul was a frosh for either. They occurred with a 10-10 year in the middle. That means they were all multi year players recruited by and groomed in Pikes system. Covid kept Geo around for another year. The problem though is not just transfers. Since we were lucky enough to have that core group Pike hasn’t done well at recruiting, retaining or development. You say we’re not as bad as I say. I say you don’t see the Cliff we’re about to fall off of. Or have already started to fall from.

 

[goru7]

Dude. Get a grip!!!

 

[darkcheck]

Wow are you dramatic. Against Illinois , who gave it their all and wanted and tried to win that game badly, Dylan and ACE did not mail it in but Dylan showed his tremendous impact.
There has been a little bit of bad luck that happened this year besides the injuries , roster construction failure and the transfer failure .
There have been a number of games lost that our group freshman and upperclassmen did not respond well down the stretch to pull out victories. It was a lot closer to getting over the top than you profess that it is “ disgusting “.
Everyone is bitterly disappointed in what our record presently is but we are not in a hole that we cannot recover from. That was already done years ago.

Dude you have to stop putting words in my mouth. I said depressing. Not disgusting.

Wow! Illinois. It was fun to be there for that, but the season is 31 games long. Not one.

It was a lot closer than I think. Lol. Is this horseshoes or hand grenades? Which one? Oh it’s neither and we are what our record is. Worse than last year.

Finally comical you call roster construction and transfer bad luck. They’re an exact part of the reason why the future looks bleak to me. Pike hasn’t proved he can navigate transfers or assemble a team in this NIL era. He’s had exactly two winning B1G seasons. Both were done around four players who were there for both. Geo, RHJ, Caleb and Mulchay. Only Paul was a frosh for either. They occurred with a 10-10 year in the middle. That means they were all multi year players recruited by and groomed in Pikes system. Covid kept Geo around for another year. The problem though is not just transfers. Since we were lucky enough to have that core group Pike hasn’t done well at recruiting, retaining or development. You say we’re not as bad as I say. I say you don’t see the Cliff we’re about to fall off of. Or have already started to fall from.

Dude. Get a grip!!!

stop putting words in my mouth and enjoy your sub mediocre team in silence. If we’re all wrong why do you read the board at all. Just enjoy the team and their performances. Isn’t that enough for you.

 

[fluoxetine]

They’re an exact part of the reason why the future looks bleak to me. Pike hasn’t proved he can navigate transfers or assemble a team in this NIL era.

While this is true, he also hasn’t proven he can’t. I present a couple of points:

(1) this is a new dynamic in a way that almost everything else in coaching is not. Pike is not going to suddenly become the offensive coach of the year or stop doing his rotations in a way that drives a lot of people mad. But those are things he’s been doing for decades. The NIL/transfer thing is new and there’s no reason why a guy who struggled with it the first couple go rounds can’t learn from his mistakes and get better

(2) we haven’t really had a “normal” shot at it yet. The first try we had two important guys leave really late in the process. The second try we had a unique dynamic with Ace and Dylan coming in that is not likely to ever repeat itself

Again, I’m not saying he necessarily gets it done. I’m just saying it’s not as bleak as people convince themselves it is

 

[darkcheck]

While this is true, he also hasn’t proven he can’t. I present a couple of points:

(1) this is a new dynamic in a way that almost everything else in coaching is not. Pike is not going to suddenly become the offensive coach of the year or stop doing his rotations in a way that drives a lot of people mad. But those are things he’s been doing for decades. The NIL/transfer thing is new and there’s no reason why a guy who struggled with it the first couple go rounds can’t learn from his mistakes and get better

(2) we haven’t really had a “normal” shot at it yet. The first try we had two important guys leave really late in the process. The second try we had a unique dynamic with Ace and Dylan coming in that is not likely to ever repeat itself

Again, I’m not saying he necessarily gets it done. I’m just saying it’s not as bleak as people convince themselves it is

Fair as always Fluoxetine, just concerning with his small sample size, especially in this critical year. Also many have already pre-excused him with the we have “zero NIL”. If the mods are to be believed we have lower middle. Should be able to do something with that. So we can’t say he’s failed because of a small sample but we don’t have evidence he’ll succeed. If it was still a recruit, retain and develop I’m 90% sure he’d be able to recover.

 

[fluoxetine]

Fair as always Fluoxetine, just concerning with his small sample size, especially in this critical year. Also many have already pre-excused him with the we have “zero NIL”. If the mods are to be believed we have lower middle. Should be able to do something with that. So we can’t say he’s failed because of a small sample but we don’t have evidence he’ll succeed. If it was still a recruit, retain and develop I’m 90% sure he’d be able to recover.

I still think it's really likely that Ace and Dylan are getting a bunch of Rutgers NIL in addition to the outside sources (otherwise how could be possibly be competitive with Duke/Auburn who were surely going to be throwing in extra NIL?)

If we truly have lower middle NIL it may be the case that we overextended ourselves with how much they got and were left with "zero" (not literally zero I am sure) to fill out the remaining spots.

I don't know if that's true, but it's plausible to me.

 

[zebnatto]

One point on defense: We're extremely vulnerable to this particular attack, and I'm going to assume players are doing as they're coached to: Opponent passes ball to wing or corner. Defender closes out. Offensive player pumps then attacks along baseline. We double or triple- team as player gets near basket. Effectively defending basket or pass "out." However, the ball handler can begin his pass outside the baseline and into the opposite corner where offense's money corner shooter is open for clean 3.

 

[NickRU714]

I still think it's really likely that Ace and Dylan are getting a bunch of Rutgers NIL in addition to the outside sources (otherwise how could be possibly be competitive with Duke/Auburn who were surely going to be throwing in extra NIL?)

If we truly have lower middle NIL it may be the case that we overextended ourselves with how much they got and were left with "zero" (not literally zero I am sure) to fill out the remaining spots.

I don't know if that's true, but it's plausible to me.

I’ve actually believed the “minimal/no Rutgers NIL for Ace/Dylan” (based on no real evidence).

I chalked it up to HC Pike being able to cover the NIL gap with recruiting pitch and get them here.

If it was Duke $1m and Rutgers $0 (old pre-NIL system) - HC Pike isn’t overcoming that.

But Duke $1.5m (outside plus Duke NIL) and Rutgers $1m (mostly outside) - HC Pike can sell that and overcome it.

 

[fluoxetine]

I’ve actually believed the “minimal/no Rutgers NIL for Ace/Dylan” (based on no real evidence).

I chalked it up to HC Pike being able to cover the NIL gap with recruiting pitch and get them here.

If it was Duke $1m and Rutgers $0 (old pre-NIL system) - HC Pike isn’t overcoming that.

But Duke $1.5m (outside plus Duke NIL) and Rutgers $1m (mostly outside) - HC Pike can sell that and overcome it.

Yeah I don't think this is implausible either I've just never actually heard it stated by anything resembling a reliable source.

The sources just say "Ace/Dylan got significant NIL from outside sources" and people jump from that to "they got no NIL from Rutgers" and as far as I can tell that jump occurs with zero evidence.

 

[jakeknight]

This team has been “soft” on the defensive side of ball since Day 1, and it has not markedly improved during the course of the season, early RU simply outscored most of lesser teams on the schedule. Can’t be doing that in the Big, the coaching in the big will find your weaknesses and take things away.

 

[Scangg]

Teams get left out every year.
Indiana State had a better NET just last year and got left out.

Rutgers isn't that special. There isn't a grand conspiracy.
It happens every year.

It literally has never happened before where 99% of bracketologists have had a team in and they didn't make it

 

[Scarlet Shack]

I’ve actually believed the “minimal/no Rutgers NIL for Ace/Dylan” (based on no real evidence).

I chalked it up to HC Pike being able to cover the NIL gap with recruiting pitch and get them here.

If it was Duke $1m and Rutgers $0 (old pre-NIL system) - HC Pike isn’t overcoming that.

But Duke $1.5m (outside plus Duke NIL) and Rutgers $1m (mostly outside) - HC Pike can sell that and overcome it.

Do you really think this is the gap we are facing ???

Hint …based on pieces I’ve put together , it’s a lot more than that

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

This team has been “soft” on the defensive side of ball since Day 1, and it has not markedly improved during the course of the season, early RU simply outscored most of lesser teams on the schedule. Can’t be doing that in the Big, the coaching in the big will find your weaknesses and take things away.

Yup this. It’s great to get a win but last night’s game puts the exclamation point on this statement.

We shot 47.4% from 3 and STILL needed overtime to get the W because our D is simply horrendous game in and out.

 

[RUJMM78]

Yeah I don't think this is implausible either I've just never actually heard it stated by anything resembling a reliable source.

The sources just say "Ace/Dylan got significant NIL from outside sources" and people jump from that to "they got no NIL from Rutgers" and as far as I can tell that jump occurs with zero evidence.

Harper chose Rutgers because of family connections and Bailey knew Rutgers because of Davis and coaching staff contacts.They were going to get NIL wherever they went to college for one year.

 

[RCBeta79]

Grant is the only one with a solid future. Dortch is at best a defense only player. He can be disruptive but his lack of offensive game won't get him many minutes. Sommerville is a tweener who can score some but not much else.

Sommerville is a 4 playing the 5 spot during a lot of games.
Get a legitimate Center, and he will be much better on offense and defense.

 

[fluoxetine]

Harper chose Rutgers because of family connections and Bailey knew Rutgers because of Davis and coaching staff contacts.They were going to get NIL wherever they went to college for one year.

Okay but this is not a counterargument to "they got NIL from Rutgers" and also not evidence against "they got NIL from Rutgers". At best it's a reason why it's possible

 

[seansherm]

It literally has never happened before where 99% of bracketologists have had a team in and they didn't make it

Is 99% of brecketologists a fact, or just a guesstimated #? Have people really gone back to check this?

 

[seansherm]

Sommerville is a 4 playing the 5 spot during a lot of games.
Get a legitimate Center, and he will be much better on offense and defense.

Sommerville is not a 4. Unfortunately, it's questionable if he is a 5 also.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Sommerville is not a 4. Unfortunately, it's questionable if he is a 5 also.

So many of our fans think we need to prioritize keeping him. The problem is, if we don’t prioritize bringing in a rim protector we will be far worse next season. With or without Lathan. And Lathan apparently didn’t even want to come this year if we brought in another BIG so….

 

[seansherm]

So many of our fans think we need to prioritize keeping him. The problem is, if we don’t prioritize bringing in a rim protector we will be far worse next season. With or without Lathan. And Lathan apparently didn’t even want to come this year if we brought in another BIG so….

Most go gaga over the ability to score. I want to keep him too, but I wouldn't spend half of our payroll on him to do it.
I honestly thought EO was playing better than him when he got hurt. It wouldn't surprise me if we go into next year with the EO / Lathan combo at center again. We need multiple guard/wings from the portal, not sure we can realistically get three or more actual players. I'd rather two good over three mediocre.

 

[goru7]

Is 99% of brecketologists a fact, or just a guesstimated #? Have people really gone back to check this?

Yes it is a fact. Just because you didn’t bother to listen to all the angst after Rutgers was snubbed where it was cited repeatedly “ 99% of the Bracketologists on the Matrix had Rutgers in” . And if it was 98 or 97 %, what is your point. ?

 

[seansherm]

Yes it is a fact. Just because you didn’t bother to listen to all the angst after Rutgers was snubbed where it was cited repeatedly “ 99% of the Bracketologists on the Matrix had Rutgers in” . And if it was 98 or 97 %, what is your point. ?

Just wondering, I've seen it repeated a few times. I don't remember what it was and it matters very little if it was 99 or 10%, it was a few years ago and means nothing to anyone not on this board.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

Just wondering, I've seen it repeated a few times. I don't remember what it was and it matters very little if it was 99 or 10%, it was a few years ago and means nothing to anyone not on this board.

It was actually 95% based on what Bac said at the time. 99 or 95 is splitting hairs, the whole bracketology community was dumbfounded by the snub.

 

[NickRU714]

So many of our fans think we need to prioritize keeping him. The problem is, if we don’t prioritize bringing in a rim protector we will be far worse next season. With or without Lathan. And Lathan apparently didn’t even want to come this year if we brought in another BIG so….

If a rim protector is brought in - its likely not to be a bench player.
What's the point then?
You want them on the court and not the bench.

If you can't play both then not sure the future role Lathan will have.
Will he satisfied going back to a bench role?
Even pre-injury it was 1a and 1b with Ogbole.

This would likely be more #1 and #2.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

Most go gaga over the ability to score. I want to keep him too, but I wouldn't spend half of our payroll on him to do it.
I honestly thought EO was playing better than him when he got hurt. It wouldn't surprise me if we go into next year with the EO / Lathan combo at center again. We need multiple guard/wings from the portal, not sure we can realistically get three or more actual players. I'd rather two good over three mediocre.

Latham is a tweener, really a guard in a big’s body due to a late growth spurt. No way he can defend well away from the basket and not a great outside shooter.

Dylan Grant though is the type of 4 lots here have wanted for a long time. Think he’s going to be real good by year 3.

If they get an above the rim big, I could live with Lathan as the other big. Ogbole isn’t an above the rim type unfortunately which is disappointing given his size.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

If a rim protector is brought in - its likely not to be a bench player.
What's the point then?
You want them on the court and not the bench.

If you can't play both then not sure the future role Lathan will have.
Will he satisfied going back to a bench role?
Even pre-injury it was 1a and 1b with Ogbole.

This would likely be more #1 and #2.

Off the bench for scoring would be his role.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Most go gaga over the ability to score. I want to keep him too, but I wouldn't spend half of our payroll on him to do it.
I honestly thought EO was playing better than him when he got hurt. It wouldn't surprise me if we go into next year with the EO / Lathan combo at center again. We need multiple guard/wings from the portal, not sure we can realistically get three or more actual players. I'd rather two good over three mediocre.

If we do that, Pike deserves to be fired. And I’m a Pike fan. We will not have Dylan and Ace so our offensive fire power will drop off significantly by default unless it comes from our D. We will not have a run and gun offense. We don’t even have ur with Ace and Dylan so folks need to erase that from the realm.

The D needs a revamp back to Pike’s roots to compete. Offense created from defense. Rim protection is the nucleus to the blueprint for making that happen. No rim protection will mean a losing record with certainty.

It’s not so much about the cost of keeping Lathan in terms of what we pay him. The bigger variable are the terms. If a precondition from him is we don’t bring in a 5 then Pike is signing his own pink slip by keeping him in my opinion. I don’t care how much he can score. He can’t defend the rim well enough for us to have a good D.

 

[Scangg]

Is 99% of brecketologists a fact, or just a guesstimated #? Have people really gone back to check this?

Yes it is a fact that 99% or maybe 98% and was widely discussed how no team has ever been included on such a high number of bracketology brackets and not made the tournament before

Aka no team has ever been so snubbed so hard in the history of bracketology. Ever

I believe the stat was something like no team has ever been snubbed when they were on something like 90% or more of brackets in bracketology so it wasn't even close in terms of being the biggest snub in the history of bracketology

 

[Shelby65]

If a rim protector is brought in - its likely not to be a bench player.
What's the point then?
You want them on the court and not the bench.

If you can't play both then not sure the future role Lathan will have.
Will he satisfied going back to a bench role?
Even pre-injury it was 1a and 1b with Ogbole.

This would likely be more #1 and #2.

Agree. Not a high major 4 or 5 starter. Can’t imagine he’d get more NIL from a big program so he’s likely to follow Simpson's lead and move down for more PT next year.

 

[Scangg]

With Lathan i think many are forgetting that it usually takes big men a while to develop and he's scoring in the post pretty well for a freshman. He has shown impressive touch scoring from awkward body angles

Also remember Lathan lost a crap ton of weight leading up to the season. This off season he will have a year of S&C to build up the muscle with a lot of fat gone. He could potentially have a breakout sophomore year and be stronger and more explosive which will help defensively

His defense has been bad but he has on occasion shown a willingness to bang inside

He cleary has shown enough talent that we should want him back next season especially since we won't have the money to compete for the good 5's in the portal anyway

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

With Lathan i think many are forgetting that it usually takes big men a while to develop and he's scoring in the post pretty well for a freshman. He has shown impressive touch scoring from awkward body angles

Also remember Lathan lost a crap ton of weight leading up to the season. This off season he will have a year of S&C to build up the muscle with a lot of fat gone. He could potentially have a breakout sophomore year and be stronger and more explosive which will help defensively

His defense has been bad but he has on occasion shown a willingness to bang inside

He cleary has shown enough talent that we should want him back next season especially since we won't have the money to compete for the good 5's in the portal anyway

We have to purchase a 5. The best one we can get for whatever money we have. Pike’s D does not work well without a rim protector and Lathan just isn’t that and won’t ever be that. He’s undersized. Not a rim protector type at all. Even with vastly improved D he would not be that and we’d still have a huge hole to fill.

 

[Scangg]

We have to purchase a 5. The best one we can get for whatever money we have. Pike’s D does not work well without a rim protector and Lathan just isn’t that and won’t ever be that. He’s undersized. Not a rim protector type at all. Even with vastly improved D he would not be that and we’d still have a huge hole to fill.

We won't have money for a top portal 5. It is what it is. I hope we get an athletic defensive rebounder rim protector to pair with Lathan but doubt we can afford anyone who has those skills and any offensive talent. The big men portal prices are crazy

Ogbole can't be relied upon coming off another knee injury. We have no idea if or what he will bring next year

 

[Shelby65]

We have to purchase a 5. The best one we can get for whatever money we have. Pike’s D does not work well without a rim protector and Lathan just isn’t that and won’t ever be that. He’s undersized. Not a rim protector type at all. Even with vastly improved D he would not be that and we’d still have a huge hole to fill.

he's not undersized, he just plays that way. shortest tall player Shelby can remember.

 

[goru7]

Just wondering, I've seen it repeated a few times. I don't remember what it was and it matters very little if it was 99 or 10%, it was a few years ago and means nothing to anyone not on this board.

Obviously it means a lot to all the Pike haters on the board. Rutgers got the Royal screw job that was universally condemned and a year in the NCAA taken away from Pike. You can say whatever you want about it only mattering to people on this board but that would have been 4 straight years of the NCAA tourney and damn right I am counting the Covid year.

Now doesn’t excuse the team that couldn’t shoot straight last year nor the disappointment of this year that has resulted primarily because of repeated defensive breakdowns.
Just setting the record straight for the people that forgot.

 

[seansherm]

Latham is a tweener, really a guard in a big’s body due to a late growth spurt. No way he can defend well away from the basket and not a great outside shooter.

Dylan Grant though is the type of 4 lots here have wanted for a long time. Think he’s going to be real good by year 3.

If they get an above the rim big, I could live with Lathan as the other big. Ogbole isn’t an above the rim type unfortunately which is disappointing given his size.

Yeah, I just think we'll see history repeat itself and not have the funds for a useful big.

 

[seansherm]

Obviously it means a lot to all the Pike haters on the board. Rutgers got the Royal screw job that was universally condemned and a year in the NCAA taken away from Pike. You can say whatever you want about it only mattering to people on this board but that would have been 4 straight years of the NCAA tourney and damn right I am counting the Covid year.

Now doesn’t excuse the team that couldn’t shoot straight last year nor the disappointment of this year that has resulted primarily because of repeated defensive breakdowns.
Just setting the record straight for the people that forgot.

I agree, think Pike gets plus credit for the year, and agree the Covid year should count as a plus for him too. I even give him a slight pass on last year with the two late departures, but his couple year pre A and D recruiting were a negative.
He needs to be back near the bubble next year or I think his seat would start to warm up.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

Yeah, I just think we'll see history repeat itself and not have the funds for a useful big.

I think there are guys out there that can give you like 6 & 8 that can be useful. Doesn’t need to be a top tier guy.