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Eddie Needs to Step Down...

rutgerstruefan,

I accept your apology.
Let's just say we agree to disagree.
We are both fans and donors but we see things differently.
The infrastructure will come in due time.
For now the only way to inject some excitement to stimulate the fanbase and stop the bleeding is to finally make the right hire.
We may not win right away but at least there will be some hope for the near future.
I agree with many here on this board.
I believe Danny Hurley is the best choice but Bobby will also make an excellent coach.
Bobby may also be more accessible.
We need new direction now.
The fanbase has been beaten down.
If I was Julie, I would be working both ends.
For the good of the program get Eddie to step aside and push hard to get one of the Hurley brothers here.
I guarantee season ticket subscriptions will increase as will donor support.
Let's get it done!
 
Even when we had our NIT teams a few years back, we were still getting hammered on the road. We were often down by double digits plus during the first half. So it is not surprising to me that a team with such a lack of talent ends up in the same boat.

I don't remember a time during the last 2 decades when we were usually competitive on the road for conference games. We got to the NIT because the RAC turned into a pit that other teams hated to play in. We only occasionally had a good game on the road.

If someone remembers differently, please share the specifics with me.
 
As I said on the RT, Jordan is clearly not the answer, but he's not the problem either. Firing him will just bring on more of the same because, as has been well chronicled here, RU has its head so far up its a@@ when it comes to building and investing in the basketball program. Years of neglect have put us in this position. RU's incredible stupidity not to invest NOW in facilities with the cost of borrowing at historical lows and with a substantial stream of Big10 revenue guaranteed to come in a few years -- will just dig the hole further. The notion recently confirmed by our AD that RU will not invest its own money in basketball until 5 years from now exemplifies the idiotic thinking of those at the top. If any business were run this way, they'd have gone bankrupt years ago. It is both pathetic and incredibly aggravating to those of us who have supported the program for MANY years!
 
Well, maybe the key moment will be when Barchi steps down in 2017.
We get a President who can see the B1G money around the corner and takes the steps to get change started then and not wait til 2021.
 
Originally posted by RU-ROCS:
As I said on the RT, Jordan is clearly not the answer, but he's not the problem either.
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I don't know how you can say he's CLEARLY not the answer.

After Mike Rice beat UF in his 2nd year (a game I am proud to say I attended) I think most of us thought he was clearly the answer . Well guess what!!

one year is not enough to say he is or isn't the answer. Sorry but we need to be patient as sucky as that is.

I'm not convinced he's the answer either but you can't say he isn't right now .
 
Originally posted by PatrickRU92:

Every loss is his fault. Every win (too few) is to his credit. He's the head coach. Thats the way it should be.

Now if you'd like to know why we are getting blown out more now at the end of the year I'll give you 2 reasons--valid or not.

1) We have essentially zero depth. Our main players, who are not as good as our opponents players in the 1st place, have put in tons of minutes with no respite
2) Losing breeds losing. Look at yesterday's game thread. A few people said they turned it off once we got down by "x" points or something to that effect. Thats because they knew (rightly so ) that we simply do not have the ability to score enough points to come back from a large deficit. If they knew that, and you know that, and I know that, don't you think the team knows that too? They are getting beat down both physically AND mentally.

Just like you don't extend EJ after winning Wisconsin and nearly beating MD, you don't fire him after a losing streak in what is functionally his first full year as coach (I'm sorry but to me last year is a 100% complete wash---my opinion, and if you don't share it thats OK)

The board needs to stop overreacting. The program is ill and is NOT going to be fixed this season when we have little to compete with and we are going to likely be thin next year as well. The idea that we are going to fight hard and play in your face killer defense and look sharp when we are outmanned on a daily basis is a fallacy that needs to stop. I'm still waiting to see a 10 win team that plays like their hair is on fire.

If EJ has lost the team, then its on him. But he isn't getting fired or stepping down so forget that notion.

Suck it up, accept that we are a bad team and do a few native-indian dances to get rid of the evil spirits that live in the RAC locker room for next year and hope that the guys who didn't play this year and the ones coming next year are better than advertised.
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I've tried but all I seem to be conjuring is snow.

As to the rest of your post, I generally agree with it. I don't know what EJ will or won't be but I know coaches usually get 4 years to demonstrate something. My remedy this year has been to keep an arm's length distance following the team to avoid the frustration. I watch bits and pieces of games here and there and if it looks ugly that's it for me. It has helped my mental state with regards to RU sports immeasurably.

For those that can't do that and have stronger stomachs than me, I feel for your pain and I salute your loyalty.
 
Losses to St.Peters and St.Francis at home and a near loss to Monmouth are a far more relevant indicator as to the lack of talent and how far this program needs to improve before it would have any relevance in college basketball.Right now the team is just going through the motions and can't wait for the season to end.Nobody wants to be identified with a losing team and most importantly recruits are at the head of the list.
 
Originally posted by PatrickRU92:
Originally posted by RU-ROCS:
As I said on the RT, Jordan is clearly not the answer, but he's not the problem either.
Click to expand...
I don't know how you can say he's CLEARLY not the answer.

After Mike Rice beat UF in his 2nd year (a game I am proud to say I attended) I think most of us thought he was clearly the answer . Well guess what!!

one year is not enough to say he is or isn't the answer. Sorry but we need to be patient as sucky as that is.

I'm not convinced he's the answer either but you can't say he isn't right now .
Click to expand...
Next year is year 3 - by then you can make conclusions. I think to me its very obvious where this is heading. The problem I think with some is that Eddie holds a place in Rutgers history (and rightfully so). But if you where a real outsider, I think you would feel the chances of a guy like EJ turning things around here are nil.

On a another post, Aggs brought up Isiah Thomas as a bad hire with FIU. Now when that name comes up, Knicks fan real in horror. And in no way would I ever equate EJ and Isiah as people. But as a hire into college basketball in the past 5 to 10 years, I think the comparison is fair. As an outsider, it was clear from day 1 that Isiah Thomas had no business being on the sidelines of a college basketball game. He was the wrong kind of leader for a team like FIU, even though he was a Hall of Famer who played for Bobby Knight. It was just an awful fit, and I think everyone not tied into FIU knew that it was doomed to fail. Funny that after 3 years and about 25 wins, FIU went out and hired Richard Pitino, who righted the ship immediately.

I'm pretty comfortable in saying that I see very little chance that EJ is going to turn it around here. I take no pleasure in saying it. I just think similar to Isiah, he is just not a fit to lead a downtrodden college program in this day and age. With all the problems that Rutgers has, and they are massive, we did ourselves no favor by hiring someone thats such a bad fit for our situation. I also believe that the idea of giving EJ 3 to 5 years more before we consider making a change is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You could have given Craig Littelpage and Terry Shea another 20 years each, and neither of them would have won a damn thing.

Assuming nothing changes, I'll be back here in October hoping Ryan Johnson and Justin Goode are going to lead us to the promise land. Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong on this.

The one wild card to this whole thing for me is if Corey Sander is a program changing player. Its asking a lot, but I think its Eddies only way of turning this. And if the questionable academics makes him ineligible next year, I will personally have all time epic meltdown.


This post was edited on 2/20 6:41 PM by ruman

This post was edited on 2/20 6:42 PM by ruman
 
maybe Ruman the starters like mack are tired because let's face it the bench is horrible. When Mack goes to the bench I wonder who will score. Sorry just saw Patrick's post, agree with him. Team is tired and they are not good.
This post was edited on 2/20 6:39 PM by shields
 
By the way...first order of business. Complete overhaul of the strength and conditioning program. For over a decade out players get stronger but do not have conditioning. Period. I have not consistently seen a program with players gasping for air over so many years as our program
 
Originally posted by RU-JMM78:

Losses to St.Peters and St.Francis at home and a near loss to Monmouth are a far more relevant indicator as to the lack of talent and how far this program needs to improve before it would have any relevance in college basketball.Right now the team is just going through the motions and can't wait for the season to end.Nobody wants to be identified with a losing team and most importantly recruits are at the head of the list.
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but those losses also speak to a lack of effort
 
Another thing to consider is I guarantee there will be a load of negative recruiting going on. From what I have heard it goes on all the time.
 
I do not know if EJ is the right guy or not..... but even the greats took 3 to 4 yrs. to turn programs around, i.e. duke, UConn, etc....

We hired him, proper or not, you have to give him a chance to change this program around.... and one or two yrs. is not going to even get it started, esp. in EJ hire.... He is actually only in his 1 yr. when he came in to replace Rice, he had less than nothing. the next yr. was not really his....

give the man a real chance.... you have to be patient..... if after his fourth yr. you do not see any progress, then you can talk.... Remember Nova---they had a great first yr. class with their new coach, but it took two additional yrs. to get them headed to the promised land..

Would be coaches are on this board, but the reason they are on this board and not coaching is they really do not have any idea as to what is going on...

EJ hope you make it, but as far as I am concerned you have two additional years.
 
Johnny Dawkins took over Stanford program that has been good in last 20 years. Took him 5 years to get into NCAA.
 
Originally posted by RUCONN:
Originally posted by RU-JMM78:

Losses to St.Peters and St.Francis at home and a near loss to Monmouth are a far more relevant indicator as to the lack of talent and how far this program needs to improve before it would have any relevance in college basketball.Right now the team is just going through the motions and can't wait for the season to end.Nobody wants to be identified with a losing team and most importantly recruits are at the head of the list.
Click to expand...
but those losses also speak to a lack of effort
Click to expand...
Then the Wisconsin and Vanderbilt and Clemsons wins should speak of superior effort.

Every team wins games it shoudln't win, and loses ones they shouldn't lose. With rare exceptions.

Bad teams will lose more of those.
 
Originally posted by derleider:
If RU is willing to spend money on a real coach (and by that I mean going out and offering above the league average and seeing who steps up to take it), then RU should seriously consider trying to get Eddie to step down.

But I doubt we are, so Eddie stepping down, and being replaced by some other low cost option is probably just adding more years until we get to the point where we are willing to pay for a real coach.
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Agreed. EJ stepping down and then RU replacing him with another bargain basement coach (e.g. Tim Cluess) is not going to accomplish anything. RU has tried this process practically every 4-5 years since the late 90s. It doesn't work unless you have an institutional commitment to support the program. Also, no quality coaching candidate is going to come here unless facility upgrades are guaranteed. RU has been kicking the can down the road regarding basketball facility upgrades for awhile.
 
Danny Hurley is the only person that can fix Rutgers problem. He can coach, recruit and understand today's game.
 
Originally posted by Ray6232010:
Danny Hurley is the only person that can fix Rutgers problem. He can coach, recruit and understand today's game.
Click to expand...
Maybe not the only guy but certainly a terrific fit for the reasons you mentioned. But if they couldn't land him in 2013 ...


Rutgers could be a in a position where it's coming off back-to-back last place finishes in the B1G while Hurley and Rhode Island could be tournament bound during the same years. Danny and his agent can ask for the moon at that point.
This post was edited on 2/21 3:26 PM by Aggs
 
I think most on this board agree.
We are not going to fire Eddie as we cannot afford to buyout his contract.
But if, and that is a big if, we can get Danny or Bobby Hurley here next season, Eddie stepping aside would be the right thing to do.
 
Why would Eddie Jordan give up $4 million bucks. It might be "the right thing to do". But you are silly to think he does this on his own. Unless of course he leaves because he hates what he's doing. He will not do this for humanitarian reasons.

This post was edited on 2/21 4:07 PM by ruman
 
I think some here put too much faith in the Hurleys. They are still an unknown quantity IMO. They've shown good things but nothing definitive yet and would be a gamble like other mid major coaches out there.

It reminds me of Kliff Kingsbury in his first year and quite a few on the football board were going crazy over him when he was 7-0 and then suddenly he lost a bunch of games in a row and now in his 2nd year below .500 and everyone has gone quiet about him. Same for Golden/Turner Gill/Edsall to varying degrees.

They have a good trajectory with their careers but some of you guys talk like they're slam dunks. They're not. EJ's not likely going anywhere for 2 years at least and I wouldn't be so quick to get rid of him need we be reminded of the next great coach FHJ. If EJ works out then great and if he doesn't then we'll move on and look at the candidates available at that time.

On another note. I haven't paid much attention to CBB lately outside of RU and even that is at arm's length but I was watching College Game Day this morning and there was a segment where the hosts were bidding at auction for various teams for their final 4. Utah came up and I was surprised. I was like wow, have they brought it back to the Majerus days. Did a quick look up and saw they were ranked 9 and I was like nice job, who's the coach. It was a Nets assistant Larry Krystowiak. He was head coach for Milwaukee prior to that for a little more than a season and he was lousy. He had a couple NCAA years at Montana prior but his NBA stint was bad. Over 4 years it looks likes he's steadily improved them to what they are now, so you never know. It's why while I'm not saying EJ is the answer but I'm not willing to write him off this early in his tenure either.
 
Admittedly it is getting easier every day to second guess the EJ hire given that he looks like a fish out of water most of the times. Obviously we expected results given that we gave him $6.25MM over five years which was a pretty good bump for a guy whose previous job at a second row coach for the Lakes paid $400K. There a plenty of guys out there who would take this job truly believing that they can turn this around. Question is whether we would finally try the home run route or just go with an up and comer.

BTW Nice win by Gary Waters with Cleveland State last night. I believe his team is in first place in his conference.
 
Of course the biggest mistake is chasing the elite recruits who will leave us at the altar
As a result we will have to scramble for recruits like in 2015
 
Isn't that on the head coach. To know who to recruit and who not to?

Yes it's the coaches responsibility.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
34 and 30 point losses to two unranked bubble teams making it 5 straight non competitive games...4 by more than 20

No question ru isn't talented but iowa and indy are not 30 points better...thats just excuse making
 
Bac

Not so sure.about that

Name any coach you want. They aren't winning 5 confrence games with out current roster
 
Originally posted by Scarlet Shack:
Bac

Not so sure.about that

Name any coach you want. They aren't winning 5 confrence games with out current roster
Click to expand...
There is enough raw talent...the question is it possible for anyone to connect with certain players.
 
We don't have a roster that can win 5 games next year, either. I hate being negative but let's be real. Tell me the starting 5 that can win 5 conference games? The bench is deeper but we're so young and not ready physically to matchup with 75% of the Big 10.

Eddie talked about baby steps, but we just lost a game by 30 points for the second time in a row. Does Jagan Mosely want to give us a chance? How about any recruit who has interest from Temple, VCU, Wichita State, Syraucse, Nova, Xavier, Pitt, Miami, Providence, and on and on.

Do 2016 recruits want to know how hard it is to win in the B1G at Rutgers? Because that's what the message was in the press conference.

I'm not sure many NJ kids want to get beat down every night like Myles Mack, god bless his warrior soul, but the only way Eddie is going to survive is winning with lesser recruits.

GIlbert Arenas and Antwan Jamison are not walking through that door.
 
Originally posted by Scarlet Shack:
Bac

Not so sure.about that

Name any coach you want. They aren't winning 5 confrence games with out current roster
Click to expand...
COMPLETELY disagree. you give this exact roster to a big time coach and we are a .500 conference team
 
Reading your post Aggs, I could not agree more. But you also make the case for changing the coach this or next year. Here is the biggest problem with Eddie and recruiting. Eddie's best chance to hit a home run recruiting was last year and this one. Selling kids to come play for an NBA coac with lots of playing time available was the angle. I don't see how he recruits as well moving forward, given how poorly HIS teams have performed. I have said it many times. Rutgers is a lousy job that doesn't support the sport. But we have compounded our inherent problem by hiring a coach that is not suited for this situation.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by ruman:
Reading your post Aggs, I could not agree more. But you also make the case for changing the coach this or next year. Here is the biggest problem with Eddie and recruiting. Eddie's best chance to hit a home run recruiting was last year and this one. Selling kids to come play for an NBA coac with lots of playing time available was the angle. I don't see how he recruits as well moving forward, given how poorly HIS teams have performed. I have said it many times. Rutgers is a lousy job that doesn't support the sport. But we have compounded our inherent problem by hiring a coach that is not suited for this situation.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Click to expand...
We're stuck in the middle. We won't beat out the elite schools or even middle-tier schools until we make the tournament. Kids will rather go to the ACC or Temple and Xavier than Rutgers. At least they have a shot at the tournament.

So if you can't beat out Kentucky/Duke, and you can't beat out the next tier of schools who recruit the area, then you need a coach who can identity and "coach up" unknown or overlooked prospects.

Then when you have some type of buzz and atmosphere surround the program you have a chance to outrecruit some schools like Temple, Xavier and Providence.

I know a guy like Tom Crean got his arse kicked during his first few seasons but they were coming off a scandal. Indiana has cashed Big 10 checks before our players were born so they have inherit advantages as a program/franchise.

You look at Oregon State, the entire team transfers when they fired Craig Robinson, but they have 17 wins with the former Montana coach.

Northwestern's coach was hired in 2013 and they have 14 wins and a 3-game winning streak with mostly underclassman.


Rutgers needs it's "Money Ball" strategy.

California has the mot talent because it's the biggest state. The genius of Randy Bennett was he probably realized he was 10th or worst on most California kids list so he got a bunch of Australian kids at St. Mary's (CA) and they won a bunch of games. Now they probably expanded their recruiting base because of the tournament appearances and with a guy like Dellavadova in the NBA.

My guess is in the past, New Jersey and New York coaches sent us players who were mid major but they wanted another player who made it to the Big East/Big 10 because it looks good on their resume. Never mind what happens once they have to play against future lottery picks, once they make it to high major their job is done.
This post was edited on 2/22 9:39 PM by Aggs
 
Originally posted by RUCONN:
Originally posted by Scarlet Shack:
Bac

Not so sure.about that

Name any coach you want. They aren't winning 5 confrence games with out current roster
Click to expand...
COMPLETELY disagree. you give this exact roster to a big time coach and we are a .500 conference team
Click to expand...
.500 conference team?? I just don't see it. All the best coaching in the world won't put the ball in the hoop.
 
No way that a big time coach wins this roster. But a big time coach would never have this roster. Never!
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
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