GAME 10 Seton Hall: Working on a puzzle

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

I hate this argument. Those players were all capable. So Sanders didn't pass to Mike Williams on the perimeter because he would miss the 3? Corey kept feeding Geo when he had a good game?

Using your argument....who does Geo have to give the ball to? Geo can't pass to himself. Issa still won't shoot. Ron Harper has the same 3 pt % as Freeman. Williams (right now) is better offensively than Mathis. The "surrounding cast" Baker has, at best, is as good as Sanders. Definitely not better.

peter kiss is not a good defender but he can knock down open threes. he's shooting 36% from 3. Add in Geo getting better looks and this is a bubble team. My argument isn't geo vs corey, my point is the team this year is SUBSTANTIALLY better with corey. I haven't even really mentioned the fact that he'd make us soooo much better defensively. He probably locks down Powell and Ponds and that freshman on fordham.

IMO if corey was still here we're probably 7-3/8-2 right now.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

So your argument is that he would pass when penetrating this year because he would have Kiss instead of Mike Williams. The last 3 years it was a known by everyone that.....
1. Sanders was not a 3 point option
2. He would drive to his right, AND
3. He would always try to finish and rarely ever passed when penetrating

Sanders was a good defender and we really miss him as a defensive rebounder. Offensively it just didn't work.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

So your argument is that he would pass when penetrating this year because he would have Kiss instead of Mike Williams. The last 3 years it was a known by everyone that.....
1. Sanders was not a 3 point option
2. He would drive to his right, AND
3. He would always try to finish and rarely ever passed when penetrating

Sanders was a good defender and we really miss him as a defensive rebounder. Offensively it just didn't work.

It's not like Mike Williams parked himself behind the 3 point arc waiting to catch and shoot like Kiss. Mike Williams adjusted his game accordingly and crashed the boards on drives instead of waiting for the kick and he was really effective at it. It's just an insane argument imo to not recognize how much better this team would be with corey. I think we all agree Jerry Carino is probably the best bball beat writer in the state and watches more college basketball in one season than most of us watch in 5 years. He talks to players, coaches, etc. He knows basketball and knows he miss corey dearly.

1) wasn't a great 3 point shooter but hit some here and there.
2) does it matter whether he drove left or right? Dude finished and was hands down one of the best finishers at the rim in the entire big ten.
3) If he has the easy bucket, why dish? If he doesn't have an easy bucket he could simply dish to an improved Geo or a legit 3 point option in Kiss now.

 

[Degaz-RU]

I have to agree with kyk that this year's team would be much better with Corey as its point guard. I'm not even sure how anybody could argue to the contrary. It's pretty clear that Baker would be a much better SG and wouldn't have to shoulder the load, and that would reduce the number of minutes McConnell and Mathis would have needed to see early on. Kiss would still be there as the 6th man, instead of having to rely on the freshmen, who were very shaky in the early part of the schedule.

Might this have slowed the growth of the freshmen? Perhaps, but we would be better right now, and Corey's presence would have allowed the freshmen to mature in the incubator instead of being thrown into the fire playing against SJU, MSU and Wisky in the early going. Corey being here would have bumped down some freshmen minutes in favor of a 4th year senior guard playing 30 mpg, a guy coming off some really good games late in his junior year.

How could we NOT have been better in that case?

 

[RU-ROCS]

I was there, their fan base is very blahhh. They never got loud for a single hall defensive possession even after big 3’s, dunks, etc. They have a pretty weak fan base. Our fanbase isnt as rabid as the 80’s and 90’s but the RAC comes alive during possessions after big plays, not nearly the same at the rock. Pretty disappointed. Thought itd be a more raucous atmosphere.

Keep in mind were talking about a fanbase who largely didnt travel to nyc last week to see them play Kentucky and a team that struggled selling tix vs louisville to the point the players had to publicly challenge and beg fans to come

A curtained off Rock - as much as I really like that arena for pro hockey - will never create the noise of even a 2/3's filled RAC. Just a fact.

 

[RU-ROCS]

Few thoughts from me (just finished watching the game, unbelievable to go this whole time and no one told me score).....

1. Down 17 very happy of the way we came back
2. We are so better offensively with more balance...Baker and Eugene are bordering on selfish now....Pike needs to fix

On that score, I loved that Pike yanked Eugene in the second half when he started to pull a Freeman and become a black hole on offense. I think it worked, as Eugene did a much better job down the stretch of letting the game come to him.

 

[RUsojo]

Heres my post game thoughts.

-Shooting as bad as we did and still only losing by 6 is miraculous. There were huge stretches where we couldnt hit the ocean if we were in a boat.

- We still havent found a second scoring option who can create their own shot. I dont think we will find that this year. Harper is such a smart player and has extremely high bball iq but his shots just wont fall right now. I expect that to eventually change and maybe it even takes until 2019-2020 but it will eventually happen imo.

- Mathis is really coming into his own. Hes getting better and better on the defensive end every game, he plays with an attitude and a snarl unlike the rest of our team and he’s getting more confident in going to the rim. Hes gotta work on his finishing ability but im excited about him. I think next year he takes a huge leap forward. Also the tech called on him was bullshit.

- Kiss remains frustating. Hes so hot so cold but with scoring really lacking you gotta play him. Hes a real liability on the defensive end against decent guards but he also puts the ball in the hoop which we need desperately so you gotta live with the good and the bad.

- Issa has minimal basketball iq and I really have no idea what to do with him anymore. He’s just of zero threat on offense and despite his length, he was giving powell space to shoot 3’s over him, GOTTA be up in his jersey. He also gets off balance way to easy on strp backs. He cant transfer because no ones gonna take a 2 for 1 and its not like he can grad transfer. Imo his minutes should be cut to <10 mins a game and mathis should be taking those minutes.

- Our bigs have to be more assertive and develop a dog mentality. Our bigs are just too content with soft layups. They need to get physical and go up with authority and use their size to their advantage.

- Caleb deserves to play a few extra minutes and i’d like to see us try caleb at pg and geo at sg to see how it works. Caleb is gaining confidence and hes a pretty good defender. it’ll also allow geo to play off the ball.

FWIW I asked in ask the experts a while ago why Geo and McConnel aren’t ever are the floor together and recommended they should be. I believe Richie said he does not expect Pike to do it.

I see what you see

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

FWIW I asked in ask the experts a while ago why Geo and McConnel aren’t ever are the floor together and recommended they should be. I believe Richie said he does not expect Pike to do it.

I see what you see

Kiss, Mathis and Issa are all better options right now. Maybe I am alone here, but I don't have any confidence in McConnell as a ball handler right now.

I do want Baker playing no more than 32 minutes. Not sure who I want playing those other 8 minutes. There is a fine line between trying to win games and developing Caleb. Right now I am a nervous wreck when he is in the game.

 

[RUsojo]

Kiss, Mathis and Issa are all better options right now. Maybe I am alone here, but I don't have any confidence in McConnell as a ball handler right now.

I do want Baker playing no more than 32 minutes. Not sure who I want playing those other 8 minutes. There is a fine line between trying to win games and developing Caleb. Right now I am a nervous wreck when he is in the game.

I agree. His handle does not look as good as I thought it would coming in - just goes to show how much info fans with normal access really have when it comes to analyzing out of state prospects before you can see them in a practice. According to Pike he can shoot, can’t give you worse D than Kiss, and has the length to contest at multiple positions.

Is McConnel Baker Mathis that much of a liability compared to Baker Mathis Kiss? McConnel Baker Issa worse than Baker Kiss Issa? There are obviously other combinations.

Now I’m not saying this experiment would work but I’m just surprised we haven’t seen it considering Pike is willing to put him on the floor and wants to give Geo a break and play the 2 some. Anyway I’m hoping we eventually see it even if for just a short stretch.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Pike knows best. I just observe what I see in games in a very small sample size of minutes.

Having said that I like all your combinations better on December 17th without any regard for developing individual players. I also can't conclude that McConnell isnt more of a defensive liability than Kiss

 

[RUsojo]

Pike knows best. I just observe what I see in games in a very small sample size of minutes.

Having said that I like all your combinations better on December 17th without any regard for developing individual players. I also can't conclude that McConnell isnt more of a defensive liability than Kiss

Fair enough. But If Pike is willing to give him minutes I can’t imagine he feels he’s a defensive liability to the point where he can’t give what Kiss gives. Add in the fact that he started to mix in zone and his length would surely allow up to defend in that set up. But as you said this is all guess work. I think we may see Pike tinker sooner than we think as some of the current combinations IMO are not quite right.