THIS!!!! Every time I see him shoot I can’t help but think “wtf does this staff do.” It’s not rocket science and it’s something the casual fan can notice a mile away. There’s no reason for him to STILL be shooting like this.Coaches can't shoot for players but coaches can show Derek Simpson film of himself shooting a three pointer and help him understand that if he's off balance with his feet the shot is going to be off balance. Like... what is this? It's a wide open three pointer, what are you doing with your feet my dude? Splaying them out and then landing like THAT? And you think that shot has a prayer?
If the staff is doing this and Simpson isn't working on it, then yeah, that's on him.
GAME 20 PENN STATE: A Disgrace
- Thread starter bac2therac
- Start date
I think Hawk’s take that this offense is better than last year’s is beyond ridiculous. But the atrocious offense is a personnel issue not an x and o coaching issue. You could nit pick a few substitution issue here or there that could provide marginal improvement but the bottomline is we are (collectively as a team) historically bad at putting the ball in the basket. Only 5 D1 teams in the entire country miss a higher percentage of their shots.
I don’t understand how some are not grasping exactly how bad 38.7% from the field is as a team. Our 7 WIN 2015-16 TEAM put the ball in the basket 41.8% of the time! Think about that for a minute….
Lots of bad last night.
2 things that should have been adjusted during the game by coach and weren’t:
1. Every time the point guard came over mid court, they double teamed. Meaning someone was open, but we never took advantage of that.
2. Every time Cliff got the ball he was immediately double or triple teamed and many times resulted in turnover. Yet we keep forcing it in with no adjustments.
And as pointed out, we go up 6-7 points and essentially replace the whole team on the floor. PSU takes advantage and never looks back.
2 things that should have been adjusted during the game by coach and weren’t:
1. Every time the point guard came over mid court, they double teamed. Meaning someone was open, but we never took advantage of that.
2. Every time Cliff got the ball he was immediately double or triple teamed and many times resulted in turnover. Yet we keep forcing it in with no adjustments.
And as pointed out, we go up 6-7 points and essentially replace the whole team on the floor. PSU takes advantage and never looks back.
Maybe when Pike said it was an 80 point team he meant per 100 possessions.
Yes - absolutely. To be fair - if you even just swappped Miller for J-Mike on last year’s roster I think we make the tournament. We desperately needed a role playing thrasher. I missed Tez last year and believe Davis could’ve filled that role well. It’s not that the guys we have can’t contribute as complements to others (it’s what you said - were missing the guys to complement). Being an 18 mpg thrasher spark plug is different from being relied on as a frosh to run the offense as PG.
Can you give this up already please? It’s just plain wrong and you must know it at this point. Forget comparison to last year’s NIT team, this might be the worst offensive team in RU history. As I just pointed out - our rock bottom 7 win team (2015-16) put the ball in the basket an astounding 3.1% more of the time.
And by the way, the meaningless metric you’ve been pointing to no longer even supports the current team as their average ppg output is now down to 66.8. The 15-16 team averaged 67.7 ppg. The 22-23 team averaged 67.9 ppg.
Every team aggressively collapses on Cliff because they don’t fear our shooters. If we made them pay for that with any consistency we’d be a far more effective offense.
Quite a few people around me yelled "set your feet!" on that one. Like what are we doing here?? How is that a shot with half the shot clock left.Coaches can't shoot for players but coaches can show Derek Simpson film of himself shooting a three pointer and help him understand that if he's off balance with his feet the shot is going to be off balance. Like... what is this? It's a wide open three pointer, what are you doing with your feet my dude? Splaying them out and then landing like THAT? And you think that shot has a prayer?
If the staff is doing this and Simpson isn't working on it, then yeah, that's on him.
It's a perfectly good shot to take, just... not like that. Everyone says we don't run offense but here out of a horns set Mag had the ball at the top of the key and made a good dribble handoff for Simpson, who did an decent job of coming off it. He could've gotten a little closer but overall not bad. And he's open and has time and shoots like that. I'll take that ten times out of ten over Simpson isoball, but that can't be the shooting form.
His posts get more absurd by the minute. There are 362 Div1 teams. Here's where we rank in a few important offensive categories this season (last season in brackets for comparison)
PPG: 296 (231)
FT%: 341 (247)
EFG%: 357 (299)
3P%: 345 (285)
Off Eff: 326 (189)
You know it's bad when @BKIn118 is racing for the exits with 3 minutes left.
Also Cliff struggles to find the open person and make pass out of the double. Again lack of development is very noticeable particularly when it come to Cliff. You think the former Roselle Catholic coach who is now running a program down here in Monmouth County will think twice before send Pike another big?
Hawk was comparing PPG vs power 5/6 competition. His point was last years team's feasted more off the weaker teams than this years squad.
Whatever his point is, it’s ****ing wrong, because the offensive output is historically bad.
I missed the game and have not watched the highlights yet, and don't want to. But I just watched the Hyatt miss on youtube.
O
M
G
honestly, it had to get that bad. We have seen so many missed layups from this team that it had to get this bad maybe so that it gets better.
I swear, was there some Pedro Cerrano voodoo put on the team last night?
I know - I just can’t anymore. Your right the advanced stats are actually even worse than the straight up FG% I’ve been pointing to try and dumb it down (just the straight up percentage of time we put the ball in the basket). We rank 355th in that.
Caleb was supposedly a huge liability on offense and yet the math says he’d upgrade our offensive efficiency significantly with his output from last year. That says a lot.
Just saying, I don't expect an off-balance 3 with 13 seconds left. I think we are saying the same thing haha
Pike cleans his plate on D. I think he leaves a little on the table on the offensive end. It is 95% (or so) personnel for sure.
You coach HS hoops....
1. wouldn't you have a few plays where you can start the 5 high and set a back screen to either get Cliff the ball in motion towards the basket OR make it easier for him to establish low post position?
2. do you call set plays to your team on EVERY offensive possession? Do your kids have 20+ plays? I am the 1st guy for structure, but shouldn't most of what we do flows more from concepts than actual set plays sent from the bench every possession.
All I know is the simple math right now says last year’s team averaged over a point more per game over a full season compared to the current team’s average which reflects less than half a season’s worth of BIG games (a larger percentage cupcake games). It’s a useless metric, but even if you want to look at it, it does not support an argument of this year’s team being better at offense. This team is in the running for worst ever offensive team at RU. Sorry but his argument is just trash.
he should go feed his turtle......he is a good poster and always welcome here
Right, even if you look at something like e.g. Massey Ratings which is purely a per game based rating system we are #194 on offense this year vs #145 last year. It's absolutely the wrong way to look at it (I like Massey Ratings but it's a general sports rating system not basketball specific) and somehow Hawk doesn't understand the concept of possessions OR the concept of not having had the same level of competition so far this year (due to being only <50% through the B1G schedule).
He's either doing some kind of bit or is just unimaginably unimformed for someone who claims to be some kind of basketball expert.
He's either doing some kind of bit or is just unimaginably unimformed for someone who claims to be some kind of basketball expert.
Exactly - and we were in the game until the last couple of minutes which tells you how bad Penn State was too. They were bad and we were atrocious!
We are averaging 68.1 possessions per game
Last year we averaged 65.8 possessions per game
Last year the average D1 team averaged 1.041 per possession
This year the average team is averaging 1.051 per possession
So if we are averaging only 1 less PPG marry that with 2.3 more possessions and a game where teams are scoring about a point more per game.
If you want to try and do apples to apples.
closer to 4 points per game we are under last year
Last year we averaged 65.8 possessions per game
Last year the average D1 team averaged 1.041 per possession
This year the average team is averaging 1.051 per possession
So if we are averaging only 1 less PPG marry that with 2.3 more possessions and a game where teams are scoring about a point more per game.
If you want to try and do apples to apples.
closer to 4 points per game we are under last year
We are way worse and it’s evident by using you eyes. But yes the stats make it obvious even for people who can’t see it live.
11/22 on FTs
1/17 from Deep.
17/50 on FGs.
20 Turnovers!!!
20 ****ing Turnovers.
My son’s rec league is coached by a dad and most of the kids are terrible. I’d wager they shoot better. Unless Pike was out there chucking up bricks and passing to the opponent, he doesn’t deserve all of the blame for this.
I don’t know. I’m sure your right. There are things we could do to make modest improvements. But at the end of the day, Pike focuses on D every year and the offense under him historically (while not great) normally isnt this bad.
The reality is - 1) we have no reliable outside shooters. 2) our guards aren’t very good at executing feeds in to Cliff. I’m sure Pike has tried many things but it’s hard to blame on coaching when we saw Paul, Geo and Caleb feed him in the post for years. 3) Hyatt is very streak - he is our high scorer.
Of course there is a chemistry and a talent issue going on. The backcourt is where I see it most JMike and Simpson with only one who is a facilitator somewhat. It isn’t Derek… Derek could be similar to Baker but he does not shoot well enough… simple facts are: free throws…outside shooting from within 12-15’ … 3 pt shooting… off and on rebounding… and being bullied is all related… who has Pike designated the leader of the offense? Anyone know the answer to that?
On this team? Too many set plays in the halfcourt sets would be problematic for a number of reasons. At the top of the list is youth. You can’t ask frosh and sophomores to memorize so many plays while there are adjusting to the speed of the game. Recipe for disaster. Another, perhaps even more important reason, is we don’t have type of guards who can adjust when a play doesn’t go as planned. Several of our turnovers yesterday were a result of the D reading a back door or other scheme and picking off a pass from one of the guards.
With the guys we have - simplying is the only realistic option. It also results in higher usage for Simpson and Davis because they lack the natural distribution skills to find Cliff and Hyatt.
Where I think there could be room for real improvement on design plays is IMO on the inbounds plays. Even with our abysmal shooting, we should be able to find Cliff and Hyatt more than we do. And certainly we shouldn’t struggle as much to get the ball in period. If anything has been disappointing on the x and o front in my view it’s been that.
Almost every possession last night they were yelling out or writing on white board set plays. One was even called Penn St.
Sometimes I wonder if we’d be better off playing with only 4 players instead of Noah.
Looked more like a reminder whom not to pass it to.
Maybe they were just reminding them who the opponent was. Problem is our players thought that was who they were supposed to pass the ball to.
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