Ah - Well maybe that explains the turnovers. Reminds me of when my boys’ travel and club teams try to cute with lots of set plays.
GAME 20 PENN STATE: A Disgrace
- Thread starter bac2therac
- Start date
now they can be changing the names of the plays...but so many new ones last night. You have PSU guard draped all over Derek and Austin and they are trying to get the team in place to run a play called 'Empty"
Well, no? We had a conf adjusted off efficiency of 104.8 last season, 103.0 against Miami, 116.2 against Wake Forest, 80.5 against Seton hall
This year we are at 95.8 in conference, 98 against GTown, 94.4 against Wake Forest, 99 against Mississippi St, 118.2 against Seton Hall.
Are you guys allergic to having some idea what you're talking about before opening your ****ing mouths?
(As yes, by the way, we were already bad at offense last year!)
You can’t help but laugh about the current guard rotation. A Williams is a homeless man’s Montez Mathis. All 4 of them are basically G5 level combo guards at this point (I like Davis alot, but he has to figure out free throws and 3 point shooting). Simpson is the true wildcard. I don’t know where he goes from here. I’d like to think he will be fine with more talent around him but I just don’t trust his jumper.
Hawk literally does not want to even try to understand the concept. I'm pretty sure he is capable of understanding. He just chooses not to
The eye test and basically every metric say this year's team is horrible offensively. There is no point in trying to debate it with him at this point. He's just being stubborn
I actually wanted to see more Williams bc he can drive and use his size and strength to finish at the rim and is the best guard at driving and passing.... but he was a dud and his FT shooting is inexplicably bad. Every team should just foul him whenever Williams is going to the rim
I
Having woken up today and with the sun out , I can say the following. This is was single worst exhibition of Division 1 basketball I have ever seen from a Rutgers team. The players are really really bad at the simple things like layups , finishing drives at the hoop, making open foul shots when no one is guarding them , making wide open 3 point shots , never heard of a give and go , never even thought jumping to get a rebound was a good way to get them, let alone any semblance of a box out. So many fundamentals are putrid and horrendous. Most of these things are taught through middle school and high school and if you are a Division 1 player , you must have known or been taught that before arriving here and showed some capability of doing those things well. But what we witnessed last night you will never believe it.
Coupled that with Pike and his coaching staff ‘s being overwhelmed by the offensive futility ,that they fail to run basic plays it down screens and revert to iso ball which makes things worse with this group. Pike ‘s substitutions ( both predetermined , like the under 16 minute timeout regardless of how the team played together ) or the mindless 3 person sub like it is a hockey line , his horrendous combinations on the floor , have made things worse not better.
It is hard to coach when you have bad players but you have to do something to help these players so they do not give us a result like last night. He has actually made things worse not better. He has failed to establish the identity of this team , which has no leaders , no accountability , and now we have hit rock bottom. Despite Hyatt missing a layup and missing a defensive assignment , benching him for almost the entire second half when the team literally could not score was not on any world the right decision. If 1 or2 threes were hit in the second half it actually might have made a difference despite the despicable play by almost the entire team. Cliff’s frustration was on full display with these pathetic guards.
Every game is different but we ran some nice stuff at Michigan State and got 4 back door layups and those sets disappeared after that . Why?
Penn State pressured full court all game . Why did we not try to actual get it upcourt quickly with a numbers advantage and score more easily instead of allowing our guards to bring up the ball with pressure all game. . Why, no adjustment ?
These are little things Pike can do to help. I know it s hard to help 30% shooting , 1-17 from three and 11-22 from the foul line , and too many missed open layups to count , but these are simple things that must be done. We are at rock bottom now , so the simple fundamental things must be done the rest of the way.
I have been so devastated and gut punched after watching that game last night that it was impossible to post or even look at these boards.
Having woken up today and with the sun out , I can say the following. This is was single worst exhibition of Division 1 basketball I have ever seen from a Rutgers team. The players are really really bad at the simple things like layups , finishing drives at the hoop, making open foul shots when no one is guarding them , making wide open 3 point shots , never heard of a give and go , never even thought jumping to get a rebound was a good way to get them, let alone any semblance of a box out. So many fundamentals are putrid and horrendous. Most of these things are taught through middle school and high school and if you are a Division 1 player , you must have known or been taught that before arriving here and showed some capability of doing those things well. But what we witnessed last night you will never believe it.
Coupled that with Pike and his coaching staff ‘s being overwhelmed by the offensive futility ,that they fail to run basic plays it down screens and revert to iso ball which makes things worse with this group. Pike ‘s substitutions ( both predetermined , like the under 16 minute timeout regardless of how the team played together ) or the mindless 3 person sub like it is a hockey line , his horrendous combinations on the floor , have made things worse not better.
It is hard to coach when you have bad players but you have to do something to help these players so they do not give us a result like last night. He has actually made things worse not better. He has failed to establish the identity of this team , which has no leaders , no accountability , and now we have hit rock bottom. Despite Hyatt missing a layup and missing a defensive assignment , benching him for almost the entire second half when the team literally could not score was not on any world the right decision. If 1 or2 threes were hit in the second half it actually might have made a difference despite the despicable play by almost the entire team. Cliff’s frustration was on full display with these pathetic guards.
Every game is different but we ran some nice stuff at Michigan State and got 4 back door layups and those sets disappeared after that . Why?
Penn State pressured full court all game . Why did we not try to actual get it upcourt quickly with a numbers advantage and score more easily instead of allowing our guards to bring up the ball with pressure all game. . Why, no adjustment ?
These are little things Pike can do to help. I know it s hard to help 30% shooting , 1-17 from three and 11-22 from the foul line , and too many missed open layups to count , but these are simple things that must be done. We are at rock bottom now , so the simple fundamental things must be done the rest of the way.
Not that it matters in the end, because the result is still the same, but does he even have the $ to get players?
I don't think the debate is around whether this team is offensively challenged. It's more around the notion that last years team was somehow better offensively by leaning on narrow stats like shooting pct. , efficiency metrics, etc. rather than the end product that determines games ... like points. At the end of the day whoever scores more points wins, not whoever has the best FG%.
We are even worse in PPG already so even this braindead kind of analysis is now wrong on it's face.
The NCAA could extend the game to 42 minutes and you'd come on here and be like "MORE POINTS PER GAME WE'RE BETTER" that is the level this analysis is on.
Like we are #329 just in simple raw PPG even the guys who think math is voodoo can surely understand how this is bad?
I guess this is proof that people just don't understand the concept
Game 1: 65 points on 60 possessions
Game 2: 66 points on 70 possessions
Which game did we play better offensively?
You keep missing the key assumption in this comparison which is vs P5/6 competition. It's already acknowledged last years team averaged a hair better in all games ... so far. The point made was the stats were padded against the weaker teams on the schedule ... the pounding of the Sacred Hearts, Central Ct and Bucknells of the world.
I'm still hoping that a report breaks today that the entire team had COVID and couldn't taste or smell and simultaneously a Penn State Student Manager filled all of their water bottles with vodka.
That is the best explanation for what we saw.
That is the best explanation for what we saw.
No, I already addressed this (and it's a bad argument to begin with even if you were correct).
lol...there was a guy sitting a few down from me claiming that PSU has a "great" defense....oh well!
They are really good at causing turnovers, but if you manage to hold on to the ball they aren't too good at preventing you from putting it in the hoop and then if you do miss they are really bad at preventing you from getting it back and trying again.
OR
We have 3 point guards, 2 that don't pass because they don't have vision and 1 that chooses to not pass. AND
We have a center who has professional aspirations that is frustrated with the above AND
We have 2 forwards that have been with the program 3 years. One who has been benched the last 2 years at the end of the season for D and is our leading scorer and is now seeing someone who defends worse than him and has shot worse than him take his minutes AND
We have a primary point guard that tries to be a leader but his teammates don't really care for him
Last years stats include an entire season of conference games. This years is more weighted to the cupcakes since we're only half way through conference play. So that actually makes the current year stats worse if anything. I think?
No it makes them better because of vrbvdnebgubrgengubegubbsdfeurbg!
Can I still hope that the above is potentially caused by the vodka in the water bottles?
or toxins from the 4000 towels they gave to those on the 100 level despite telling people the 1st 4000 that showed up with the correct colored shirt got them.
not that the towels had any purpose and were all going to end up in landfill
Sadly mostly all true - except the part about Hyatt’s minutes. I think he probably sat because sadly we needed to play 4 guards just to navigate Penn State’s pressure. We did have 20 turnovers and who they were assigned to really isn’t relevant. Most of them were created by the pressure directly or indirectly. The others were related to busted set plays as we discussed.
I wanted to jump over the guys in front of me, onto the court, at that moment. Unreal. DUNK THE ****ING BALL!!! You're 6'7" WTF are you doing out there??!!!
why Oskar from 8:00 to 4:00 then? I'd love to know the reasoning. I can speculate, but in the end really don't know
Something ain't right. I was standing at the bottom of the staircase, by the locker room, when the team came out for the 2nd and - TO A MAN - they all looked miserable. Then, I BELIEVE (but could be wrong), Hyatt and Mag were "benched' from the time Simpson went down until, for Mag at least, the under-4 TO which came at about 3:30 or so. I believe that neither attempted to go help Derek up off the floor. Add that to the pathetic attempt at drawing a foul and making a layup, instead of dunking the ball (Hyatt), and I think you know why Oskar was in that long. Trust me, I was yelling about it, quite loudly actually when it was quiet, BUT I think there are/were other things going on out there last night.
Oskar I cannot explain. I did not understand that one at all. He’s not better than Hyatt at anything at this point. Hyatt may not be my favorite player, but outside of that missed lay up (and our guards routinely miss those) he didn’t stand out as a problem in this game. One of the 2 threes he attempted was with the shot clock winding down. Another was on an inbounds play. Though contested, I understand him taking it. The guards don’t find him either.
Here is what I said or have been saying since February last year and what you and others have been saying.....we can revisit who is right or not.
RU did not perform well last year down the stretch, because the guards did not perform as well as they did against the cupcakes of the schedule. Already documented 100 times over. My take last year and into the spring portal and summer was RU needs to build around its younger guards, because the veteran guards last year, didn't hold up.
You and others cried and whined that it was Mag and his injury, because it gave you and others an easy excuse to say "that's why RU failed down the stretch, when it was documented, that it wasn't.....
I explained that the guards and depth (Simpson, Davis, Griffiths) needed to be developed so there's someone on the roster with game experience, that would help in 2024-25. You cried that Spencer and Mulcahy are missed and felt that having NO guards with experience left on the roster in 2024-25, is a better solution. You (based on results so far) would be wrong again.....why??
Because now, the guard production is not improved from last year to this year.....which is where I was WRONG......BUT I still believe it was the correct move, because Mulcahy and Spencer are not going to be here in 2024-25 and Davis, Simpson and Griffiths are expected to be.
My expectations for Simpson, Davis, Griffiths and the entire backcourt are higher.....I expected them to play better than what they have so far.....which I own 1000%....
You (and others) on the other hand, now completely IGNORE my main point, that Mag and his injury was the real reason we collapsed. We look today like February and March last year, because the guards are playing like Mulcahy and Spencer did in February and March last year.
What you are missing??? Hello....Mag is playing and is on the court.....soooo, where is the impact....?I.?? What BS excuse do you have today??
You have ZERO to stand on....Mag has gone scoreless in THREE straight games....what makes me believe that couldn't have happened last year, when it is happening NOW??
I had no expectations that Mag is or was some driving force that others want to believe....I don't see anyone saying anything now....wonder why???
The fact remains that the issue last year and this year is the BACKCOURT.....which is what I said last year and is the issue this year.
If Mag was as impactful as YOU wanted to believe, RU could offset a younger backcourt....but that has not happened.
So, I don't know what you are seeing or watching....the PPG is actually slightly better against legitimate opponents this year. YOU and others may value beating Stonehill by 20 and then only scoring 43 vs Seton Hall, 45 vs Michigan at the RAC, as some sort of difference.
I look at "opponents that matter "....& as of today, I was wrong oh our backcourt being better this year, but it is being done to look beyond this year....and you clearly are still in denial about Mag.....
I am still bullish on Simpson, Davis and Griffiths going forward and believe that RU would be no better off burning minutes on Mulcahy and Spencer this year.
Now in February, would you rather go into 2024-25, playing Spencer, Mulcahy 32 minutes a game, now that you see Mag is essentially NOT what you and others made him out to be....
What plan would be in place, by not playing Simpson, Davis and Griffiths now, for 2024-25.....??
Fans complaining about this year, now see that next year and beyond was always the plan. And that meant dedicating minutes to Simpson, JMike and Gavin now. If you can't see that today, not sure you will ever see it.
Interesting take about helping Simpson up. Could certainly be something there. I wasn’t really watching.
The first half of the B1G schedule happened last year
You constantly talk about the cupcakes we crushed. True but it's better to crush them then not. We were incapable of beating teams like that this season bc we are so much worse
Then we started the B1G schedule very strong. We were talking about double bye. We didn't go from crushing cupcakes to sucking. We were very good to start B1G play. The team had no depth. When Mag went down, the depth was exposed and we sucked it up. Paul was banged up all year and depth sucked
This year's team isn't last year's team and Mag is coming off a major injury. It's different can't compare the two situations as if they are equal
I really try reading those novel length posts, but then my eyes roll back so hard into my head that I can't see them anymore.
It's frustrating to play with someone who won't pass and misses almost every shot they take...
Or just maybe to try to get the ball up court quickly by passing to the middle like most teams that beat our press , then the wings and you attack with numbers instead of trying to slowly dribble thru their pressure every time. With points at a premium you did not need all 3 guards in the game , you needs to stop dribbling , passing and attacking the hoop as they were overplaying everything, handoffs , hedging ,. Where were the back door layups to make them pay ? Simple give and go ? Anything. Saw nothing at all with any IQ. Zero.
The thing is that he makes some good points. But then I get to the PPG game thing for the 1,000th time and then my head explodes and then I am dead so the other points are lost on me.
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