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GAME 8 WAKE FOREST: About lipsticks and pigs

bac2therac

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Jul 30, 2001
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This team was a mess during the Princeton game and now 8 games into the season it remains quite a messy situation. Perhaps in some ways even moreso with more questions than answers. Laid out alot of frustration after the last game recap and I will keep things relative short tonight. RU was taken the woodshed tonight by a good not great Wake Forest. Almost an identical score to the Illinois loss and some similarities with a poor start, fools gold comeback and another embarrassing extended scoring drought turning the game into a laugher.

Cannot overthink this. We know the issues. Poor rebounding, poor defense, poor offense, poor energy out of the game, turnovers, etc. Are they fixable or is this an is what it is situation. Look at our roster. Its mainly made up of 7th and 8th men at most schools. Our top recruited freshman is struggling to get acclimated to the game and being judged on being a savior for a wretched offense. Our returning center has regressed to the point of stone hands and collecting 4 rebounds while taking 4 shots become a liability on the floor on both ends. Our much hyped sophomore guard has shown very little to indicate he is a difference maker. Our leader scorer is a guy with a streaky shot and a streaky level of interest on the court. Our 5th year portal point guard has been incredibly erratic. The Rutgers coaching staff has thrown darts onto the court with respect to their rotation. I will give them credit for trying somethiing new tonight by starting Gavin to jump start the offense but the same and even worse end result

Is this even fixable?IO This is the worst combo of offense/defense under Pike's tenure. 18-3 run to start the game and then giving up a hellish 18-0 run in the 2nd half both 6 minute type droughts that we saw even against the cupcakes RU faced earlier in the season. I did not find much solace that RU rallied a bit and got the game to 6 at half. RU pulled to 50-48 before being blown out of the building. RU was all out to do that. Every shot was a struggle for them. They gave up rebounds by the bunches to Wake forced to defend 2, 3, 4 shot attempts. Wake went cold for a stretch there. RU was hanging in but it was only a matter of time. RU was housed on the boards tonight 42-30 and Wake took advantage with 21 second chance points.

There are so many problems on this team. Not one stands out. Its all of them but the biggest may be this roster just simply does not have what it takes to compete for post season. A bunch of complimentary players who have shown very little consistency. Its not just consistency from game to game. Its within the game. Take Fernandes for example who had some very good minutes when RU pulled to within 2. However he also was responsible for every turnovers and ended up with 5 for the game on woeful 4-13 fg shooting and 1-6 from 3. Hyatt and Wolf probably were the best players in the first half. Hyatt was 3-4 fg from 3..probably fools gold but then he didnt take a shot for half the 2nd half and went 0-3 . Wolf didnt even get much minutes in the 2nd half. Cliff was non existant in the first half but most of the season rebounds in the 2nd. Tonight was a total awol zero...4 boards, 4 points does not cut it. Williams played so well vs Illinois but was awful all night long tonight. Derek ghosts during the game. Davis isnt ready and cannot make free throws. Gavin was a mess today but is not allowed to play through his mistakes so how can he get better. Palm might have had the most complete game and that is a damning indictment. Do not be fooled by Chol making a couple of baskets.

Its a scary roster folks. This team needed a Cam Spencer, a healthy Mag and probably Paul Mulcahy too. Alot of unfortunate events went down and it magnified some of the recruiting misses and chances (J Williams) that Pikiell took. Just a bad set of circumstances. So here we are. Is it too early to write this team off. Pike did it in other years because he had a better rosters with players that possessed something. There are no Geos or Rons or Yeboahs here to save this season. The team has a whole can get better, will they get better is the question. Perhaps as we get deeper in the year and mathmatically it looks like this team cannot make post season, Pike might be able to settle into a lineup that will have an eye to the future. For now I expect the same kind of tinkering we have been seeing which relies on inconsistent game to game performances where you cannot get 3 players or even 2 on the same page in a given night. Pike has no idea what player will show up and who he can count. Asked many times on this board, who is the go to guy. There still remains no answer and this team still has zero identity after 8 games. More problematic is that there is absolutely not one shred of leadership or communication going on right now. Its a mess for sure.

Seton Hall is winnable to me but only if this team can find some sort of toughness which has been absent. Abused is a common word the last two games and it could happen in Newark if this team does not start to show some energy to begin these games. Getting down early is only magnifiying the myriad of issues facing the program now. So to me this is looking more like a lost season. Yet the news today was incredible. Its going to keep the wolves at bay this season. Dylan is coming. Ace is coming. Forget about what you see this season because its a brand new ball game next year. It's just a matter of getting there with some dignity.


3mqjjj.jpg
 
I think this team has Nebraska vibes. There’s something to work with, but it’s sloppy. The only things I’m disappointed about are Simpson not progressing and Griffiths has been shaky considering his hype. Otherwise, it is what it is. Why would a mediocre team with Hyatt and palm glued to the bench get better with them getting serious run?
 
Well said, bac. A surprisingly sanguine recap, almost as if you’re resigned to our fate.

These two games were carbon copies, and they reminded me of the Jordan Era where we would fall behind big in the early going, fight back with a fools gold spurt, and then lose steam and get blown out of the building.

I for one don’t see a turnaround this year. The problems you pointed out are fundamental, and it’s hard to overcome basic issues like Cliff’s now-4-year inability to provide consistent offense; the utter lack of rebounding which is partly a function of our small guard rotation and partly just the lack of killer instinct; a soft defense which is a function of small, weak players and a lack of toughness; and most of all a lack of skilled offensive players who can hit shots with consistency.

Can we improve? I guess, but it’s going to depend on several things coming together, including Mag returning to the lineup and being effective; Gavin finding his sea legs to provide some consistent offense; Cliff finding the form he has shown at times throughout his career; Pike getting this team to rebound; and the small guards providing some scoring punch.

It’s a tall order, and I’m not putting any money on it happening.
 
This team was a mess during the Princeton game and now 8 games into the season it remains quite a messy situation. Perhaps in some ways even moreso with more questions than answers. Laid out alot of frustration after the last game recap and I will keep things relative short tonight. RU was taken the woodshed tonight by a good not great Wake Forest. Almost an identical score to the Illinois loss and some similarities with a poor start, fools gold comeback and another embarrassing extended scoring drought turning the game into a laugher.

Cannot overthink this. We know the issues. Poor rebounding, poor defense, poor offense, poor energy out of the game, turnovers, etc. Are they fixable or is this an is what it is situation. Look at our roster. Its mainly made up of 7th and 8th men at most schools. Our top recruited freshman is struggling to get acclimated to the game and being judged on being a savior for a wretched offense. Our returning center has regressed to the point of stone hands and collecting 4 rebounds while taking 4 shots become a liability on the floor on both ends. Our much hyped sophomore guard has shown very little to indicate he is a difference maker. Our leader scorer is a guy with a streaky shot and a streaky level of interest on the court. Our 5th year portal point guard has been incredibly erratic. The Rutgers coaching staff has thrown darts onto the court with respect to their rotation. I will give them credit for trying somethiing new tonight by starting Gavin to jump start the offense but the same and even worse end result

Is this even fixable?IO This is the worst combo of offense/defense under Pike's tenure. 18-3 run to start the game and then giving up a hellish 18-0 run in the 2nd half both 6 minute type droughts that we saw even against the cupcakes RU faced earlier in the season. I did not find much solace that RU rallied a bit and got the game to 6 at half. RU pulled to 50-48 before being blown out of the building. RU was all out to do that. Every shot was a struggle for them. They gave up rebounds by the bunches to Wake forced to defend 2, 3, 4 shot attempts. Wake went cold for a stretch there. RU was hanging in but it was only a matter of time. RU was housed on the boards tonight 42-30 and Wake took advantage with 21 second chance points.

There are so many problems on this team. Not one stands out. Its all of them but the biggest may be this roster just simply does not have what it takes to compete for post season. A bunch of complimentary players who have shown very little consistency. Its not just consistency from game to game. Its within the game. Take Fernandes for example who had some very good minutes when RU pulled to within 2. However he also was responsible for every turnovers and ended up with 5 for the game on woeful 4-13 fg shooting and 1-6 from 3. Hyatt and Wolf probably were the best players in the first half. Hyatt was 3-4 fg from 3..probably fools gold but then he didnt take a shot for half the 2nd half and went 0-3 . Wolf didnt even get much minutes in the 2nd half. Cliff was non existant in the first half but most of the season rebounds in the 2nd. Tonight was a total awol zero...4 boards, 4 points does not cut it. Williams played so well vs Illinois but was awful all night long tonight. Derek ghosts during the game. Davis isnt ready and cannot make free throws. Gavin was a mess today but is not allowed to play through his mistakes so how can he get better. Palm might have had the most complete game and that is a damning indictment. Do not be fooled by Chol making a couple of baskets.

Its a scary roster folks. This team needed a Cam Spencer, a healthy Mag and probably Paul Mulcahy too. Alot of unfortunate events went down and it magnified some of the recruiting misses and chances (J Williams) that Pikiell took. Just a bad set of circumstances. So here we are. Is it too early to write this team off. Pike did it in other years because he had a better rosters with players that possessed something. There are no Geos or Rons or Yeboahs here to save this season. The team has a whole can get better, will they get better is the question. Perhaps as we get deeper in the year and mathmatically it looks like this team cannot make post season, Pike might be able to settle into a lineup that will have an eye to the future. For now I expect the same kind of tinkering we have been seeing which relies on inconsistent game to game performances where you cannot get 3 players or even 2 on the same page in a given night. Pike has no idea what player will show up and who he can count. Asked many times on this board, who is the go to guy. There still remains no answer and this team still has zero identity after 8 games. More problematic is that there is absolutely not one shred of leadership or communication going on right now. Its a mess for sure.

Seton Hall is winnable to me but only if this team can find some sort of toughness which has been absent. Abused is a common word the last two games and it could happen in Newark if this team does not start to show some energy to begin these games. Getting down early is only magnifiying the myriad of issues facing the program now. So to me this is looking more like a lost season. Yet the news today was incredible. Its going to keep the wolves at bay this season. Dylan is coming. Ace is coming. Forget about what you see this season because its a brand new ball game next year. It's just a matter of getting there with some dignity.


3mqjjj.jpg
Spot on. Agree with everything except the Seton Hall game is winnable. I expect more of the same Saturday…if not worse. Shaheen outcoached Pike last year and I expect this could get ugly.
 
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Cam blindsided us, so whatever. The real killer was Mulcahy doing the will he/won't he thing for three months. If we knew for sure on March 25 that he was gone we could've done better in the portal than Noah Fernandes. The guard play on this team just isn't anywhere near where it needs to be, and one of our supposed leaders in Cliff appears to be mailing it in instead of trying to raise them up.
 
Perfectly summarized, Bac. The biggest issue to me isn’t the lack of talent, though that’s clear as day, it’s the lack of guts, the lack of pride. These guys just wilt. And that’s shocking for a Pikiell team. The 2016/2017 team would wipe the floor with this team. That team at least fought every night, put forth real effort. If you’re going to go down, go down swinging. These guys make one run — which is only necessary because of putrid starts — and then they go back to lackluster, sloppy play. At least show me you care by your focus, even if the execution isn’t there.
 
No go to guy whatsoever. Derek is equally disappointing as Cliff. Can’t kill the staff bc they surely had Paul and Cam penciled in as playing 30 min per game. Derek and Noah complimenting the backcourt, but alas, that is not the case,
 
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Cam blindsided us, so whatever. The real killer was Mulcahy doing the will he/won't he thing for three months. If we knew for sure on March 25 that he was gone we could've done better in the portal than Noah Fernandes. The guard play on this team just isn't anywhere near where it needs to be, and one of our supposed leaders in Cliff appears to be mailing it in instead of trying to raise them up.
Are you privy to everything that happened between when the season ended and when Cam left?

If not, how can you say he blindsided us.

If you worked if a company and that company decided to pay someone new that does what you do double what you make and then another company offered you a lot more I think you would leave.

I am betting if we paid Cam what UCONN offereds hed probably still be here.
 
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The team flaws are known and not likely corrected with the current roster.This team will struggle to score 60 points because there are too many long scoring droughts.Yes, there are too many complementary type players and a absence of go to scorers.The harsh reality is that future wins will be dependent on opponents playing down to Rutgers level of mediocrity.Fans are already talking about next season because the outlook for wins this season look bleak.
 
Are you privy to everything that happened between when the season ended and when Cam left?

If not, how can you say he blindsided us.

If you worked if a company and that company decided to pay someone new that does what you do double what you make and then another company offered you a lot more I think you would leave.

I am betting if we paid Cam what UCONN offereds hed probably still be here.
Cam didn't give us a chance to match. That's been reported
 
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Are you privy to everything that happened between when the season ended and when Cam left?

If not, how can you say he blindsided us.

If you worked if a company and that company decided to pay someone new that does what you do double what you make and then another company offered you a lot more I think you would leave.

I am betting if we paid Cam what UCONN offereds hed probably still be here.
I’m not sure about that. UConn is so much better for him both this year, and for his professional aspirations.
 
Yea I think we knew after watching the scrimmage and the Princeton game that something (or things) was wrong and this could be a frustrating season. Not sure if I banked on THIS frustrating…or disappointing. I hope something happens to inject some spark into these guys otherwise its not even going to be fun to watch the rest of the year. I was banking on enjoying some fun Rutgers basketball this year in anticipation of next year. Not wanting to just flush this whole season and have to wait all the way until next fall to see quality play.
 
Are you privy to everything that happened between when the season ended and when Cam left?

If not, how can you say he blindsided us.

If you worked if a company and that company decided to pay someone new that does what you do double what you make and then another company offered you a lot more I think you would leave.

I am betting if we paid Cam what UCONN offereds hed probably still be here.
Wasn't he at an event repping Rutgers gear like a week before he was in the portal? The number of guys who entered the portal as late as Cam did being so small is pretty telling.
 
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BAC--I love your finishing line --"it's ....getting there with some dignity." Exactly. Our frontline is just painfully weak. At times when Pike had Palmquist, Woolfolk and Hyatt are out there we were just awful. No rebounding , poor boxing out and little to no offense. People forget that Woolfolk got maybe 7-8 minutes last year and Palmquist virtually none and now they're expected to significantly contribute . No way ...
 
Looks like you might be able to use your Illinois post game post for a bunch of games this year. It will free up some time.

I'll wait another 5-6 games to see how things shake out. Let's see if Pike can figure out a way to right the ship.
 
Are you privy to everything that happened between when the season ended and when Cam left?

If not, how can you say he blindsided us.

If you worked if a company and that company decided to pay someone new that does what you do double what you make and then another company offered you a lot more I think you would leave.

I am betting if we paid Cam what UCONN offereds hed probably still be here.
We had him doing appearances for us during the off-season. Yes he blindsided us.

I also don’t think us matching UConn would have even mattered. He joined a team that looks like it’ll be a 1 or 2 seed looking to make a deep tournament run at UConn. Regardless of what money we could have offered him he wasn’t getting that chance here this year.

Don’t blame him for making that choice but I blame the hell out of him for waiting until almost June to make it.
 
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Are you privy to everything that happened between when the season ended and when Cam left?

If not, how can you say he blindsided us.

If you worked if a company and that company decided to pay someone new that does what you do double what you make and then another company offered you a lot more I think you would leave.

I am betting if we paid Cam what UCONN offereds hed probably still be here.
Pike may not have had a great pulse on his players...not just Cam but what the **** with Mag...to have an injured player all of sudden say he wants to leave and now we are paying for it in more ways than one because he isnt even playing
 
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Pike may not have had a great pulse on his players...not just Cam but what the **** with Mag...to have an injured player all of sudden say he wants to leave and now we are paying for it in more ways than one because he isnt even playing
Certainly seems like he was caught off guard by a lot of these departures. Maybe that’s the price you pay for following a 5 star recruit around the globe for most of the off-season. Can’t say I’ll be upset about it once he gets here next season though.
 
Pike may not have had a great pulse on his players...not just Cam but what the **** with Mag...to have an injured player all of sudden say he wants to leave and now we are paying for it in more ways than one because he isnt even playing
Did i miss something?
 
- Team is made up of fringe starters and bench players.

- You can combat the above somewhat with tenacious defense however when you can't rebound - it doesn't matter.

- We lost Cam / Caleb and Paul and neither has been replaced with players of near equal value.

- Cliff is an absolute mess. He has never taken the quantum leap we expected nor has come anywhere near reaching his "potential".

- Team lacks toughness.

- Team lacks a leader.

- Team lacks a "go to" guy.

- Noah has also been very disappointing.

- Everyone's performance is always hot and cold.

- Pike preaches defense however a team needs to also score. The coaches need to put the players in good positions to score which is rare.

- The poor performances to start a game are a head scratcher and to change things up - I would try starting J Mike and Chol - as at least both play with energy.

- On Mag, I don't know what to think. Maybe red shirt him at this point and hope he returns next year.
 
Pike may not have had a great pulse on his players...not just Cam but what the **** with Mag...to have an injured player all of sudden say he wants to leave and now we are paying for it in more ways than one because he isnt even playing
It's a good point but with College being "free agency" - it's tough waters to navigate.

I'm concerned about Griffiths.

Not about his poor stats to date etc - but does he want to endure this throughout the whole season with Pike not playing him much and not putting him in position to get touches etc.

As i stated in my prior post, it's fine for Pike to preach defense but we also need to score- and it's incumbent upon the HC and his staff to put his players in position to score - which is not a common sight as of late.
 
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- Team is made up of fringe starters and bench players.

- You can combat the above somewhat with tenacious defense however when you can't rebound - it doesn't matter.

- We lost Cam / Caleb and Paul and neither has been replaced with players of near equal value.

- Cliff is an absolute mess. He has never taken the quantum leap we expected nor has come anywhere near reaching his "potential".

- Team lacks toughness.

- Team lacks a leader.

- Team lacks a "go to" guy.

- Noah has also been very disappointing.

- Everyone's performance is always hot and cold.

- Pike preaches defense however a team needs to also score. The coaches need to put the players in good positions to score which is rare.

- The poor performances to start a game are a head scratcher and to change things up - I would try starting J Mike and Chol - as at least both play with energy.

- On Mag, I don't know what to think. Maybe red shirt him at this point and hope he returns next year.
I loved your post, but i should rescind. Agree with everythung 100%….until Chol.

Seriously?!?
 
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It's a good point but with College being "free agency" - it's tough waters to navigate.

I'm concerned about Griffiths.

Not about his poor stats to date etc - but does he want to endure this throughout the whole season with Pike not playing him much and not putting him in position to get touches etc.

As i stated in my prior post, it's fine for Pike to preach defense but we also need to score- and it's incumbent upon the HC and his staff to put his players in position to score - which is not a common sight as of late.
Yes the staff and guards are failing getting good looks for Gavin and Cliff.

I think it is obvious, or should be obvious, he is really lost. We desperately need to win games. Our season is on the line and we need to play to win.
 
I loved your post, but i should rescind. Agree with everythung 100%….until Chol.

Seriously?!?
Why not at this point? Team is lacking length, shooting, and rebounding... maybe he shows something? Wouldn't mind Pike experimenting with some sort of bigger lineup at this point with the guard play in the toilet and getting destroyed on the boards
 
I think this team has Nebraska vibes. There’s something to work with, but it’s sloppy. The only things I’m disappointed about are Simpson not progressing and Griffiths has been shaky considering his hype. Otherwise, it is what it is. Why would a mediocre team with Hyatt and palm glued to the bench get better with them getting serious run?
Yup exactly what I thought.. we look like Nebraska with a bunch of weird parts that don’t work together.
 
Why not at this point? Team is lacking length, shooting, and rebounding... maybe he shows something? Wouldn't mind Pike experimenting with some sort of bigger lineup at this point with the guard play in the toilet and getting destroyed on the boards
He nailed that 3 and i saw Glen Rice and then he went to play D and after 2 passes he had absolutely no idea where his man was and went to guard a random player.

The only way he is a possible play is a zone D. Throw gavin oskar chol out there and see what happens. That is just giving up.

We might be there.

Dont let Chol dog sit.
 
I loved your post, but i should rescind. Agree with everythung 100%….until Chol.

Seriously?!?
It's called shaking things up !

We can't rebound to save our lives and maybe just maybe Chol's height can help to rebound loose balls.

How many points vs Illinois and Wake did we give up on 2nd chances...a ton !

You tell Chol to focus in on the boards and not to hoist 3 pointers galore and see whether he can deliver.

Everyone cringed last year when Oskar was thrown to the wolves - and guess what - he had his moments and held his own !

Don't know why you think it's outlandish to srart / play Chol given what you have seen in the past 3 games - which I include the St Peters game as well.
 
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Gavin and Derek need some mass. Particularly Derek. The team is just too small. If we aren't getting boards, we can't have much of a running game. Losing Caleb's D (not his O) and Mulcahy's excellent rebounding ability for a guard with his big guard height absolutely killing us. Throw in no Cam, no Mag, and Cliff's complete lack of offensive development, this just won't be a year we compete for anything. I don't even think Mag is going to play, frankly.
 
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We had him doing appearances for us during the off-season. Yes he blindsided us.

I also don’t think us matching UConn would have even mattered. He joined a team that looks like it’ll be a 1 or 2 seed looking to make a deep tournament run at UConn. Regardless of what money we could have offered him he wasn’t getting that chance here this year.

Don’t blame him for making that choice but I blame the hell out of him for waiting until almost June to make it.
Cam was the beneficiary of a game of musical chairs. The music stopped (the portal closed) and a bunch of high major teams were sitting there in desperate need of a shooting guard. Cam’s value exploded, and if we are objective, he is in a much better situation for himself. It sucks for us, but that was the benefit grad transfers were given until this year.
 
I got an idea to shake things up.
Just let Jeremiah Willams play.

Just march him out on the court. Lol.
Then tell the NCAA that his eligibility issues are fake news. Problem solved.
 
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