GAME 9 OHIO STATE: Pick Up the Pieces
- Thread starter bac2therac
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Agree on the single bonus. Ended up not mattering since Caleb hit the first, but was a bad move. Before the play even happened I said only foul if 3 seconds.
Or will this season be the opposite of last season and we are like the 25th best team and manage to miss the ****ing tournament somehow.
thats my take. Not totally sure what to make of Ohio State. I dont think they are that good and they will be better later in the year. Still I thought the way the game went showed some moxy from this team. Three games on road, 3 losses but we are certainly getting closer to breaking through
We need to take care of business against the sisters of the poor this year, last year we had two big egoes that were not always mentally there
i hate to say it.....1st thing that went thru my mind......we made the tournament last year because Ron made a half court shot. will we miss because a half court shot was hit on us.
My confidence level for this team is growing.....but
Last year our season was defined by 10 or so possessions.
My fear is what if we are on the wrong side of all these games. Miss the tournament so far because of missed layups and a blown ref call.
bart has us .4 games under bubble right now.
After Purdue, assuming we are 1-2 we have 5 essentially pick em games.
Maryland -1.4
Iowa -1.4
at NW -1.4
OSU -3.1
at MSU +.7
wasnt impressed at all with OSU. we were very comfortable in our half court offense and i dont like their guards.
Indiana (I think) is much better
I think OSU isnt that good defensively. One big negative was the early turnovers. Cut them out and we win tonight. Cliff has to play a 40 minute game..right now he is only showing up for one half after generally brutal first halfs...is it 3 games now
Would love to blow OSU out at the RAC
Paul needs to be back in the starting lineup. I was really surprised he wasn't tonight. Caleb came off the bench first game then back to starting. Thought we would see the same with Paul, especially on the road
G- RUnit makes all good points. I was all ready to write a summary of so many good things that we did on the road even starting up 11-5 but then lapsed defense allowing them to take an 11 point lead and Cliff having a horrendous half but still close the half on a 9-0 run to be only down 31-29 at half. We then proceeded to show all of us that we were the better team , ran some great offensive sets, Cliff came alive and our defense finally took away Key and the balance of the game turned in our favor.
But before I go on about so many positive things tonight , this was just an incredible screw job by the refs. How in the world can they miss 3 glaring errors at the end. After watching all the replays and frames it is very clear that:
1) When Caleb is shooting the second foul shot at 5.0 on the clock , it clearly does not start for at least 1 second if not longer on the Miss . The last shot would never have gotten counted or been attempted in time. ;
2) Clearly Thornton being forced by Caleb steps on the white line and it is clearly a turnover at 2- 2.5 seconds and we get ball back and win ;
3) Finally , the Rule is clear and the guy cannot be allowed to touch that ball after being out of bounds and the refs botched the Rule and should have given us the ball with a second on the clock.
3 screw ups in 5 seconds. Almost unimaginable and gut wrenching to any Rutgers fan and of course the players and the coaches. We could have been 2-0 in first place and in a really good place to challenge for the BiG 10 title. I am sick.
Now I love Pike more than any poster but I was suprised by his strategy. I know the analytics people say it is a 50/50 tossup whether to foul up 3 with that much time , 7.7 on the clock. But , but , but. He didn’t trust his elite defense that really locked up Ohio State in that second half and but for 2-3 lucky shots at the end of the shot clock , he was defending them really well and I would have trusted them and if they hit a desperation heave then you go Overtime. Geo actually said in a tweet or post that Pike normally does not foul in that situation but he did in this situation. Now clearly Mag was told to foul but he clearly botched the execution as I am sure he was told to let more time go off the clock as he fouled with 5.8 on the clock less than 2 seconds ( although clock operator was shaky down the stretch ) . Now no criticism of inbound to Caleb instead of Cam as Caleb was shooting 100% from the line 9-9 and he made the first. Remember Thornton missed one to give us the 1 point lead before Paul was fouled and he was shooting like 90% as well. I said it right away watching not as a second guess , that I did not like the strategy and Pike will get some blame to not play it out but if the refs do not f—- it up and miss 3 blatant errors in the last 5 seconds , Pike’s way would have worked but I did not like it at the time.
A lot more to say about all the players but I am so devastated by this loss( but the players I am sure will bounce back ) that will have to do it in another post. This loss just sucks as bad as any ( Weiscamp’s ridiculous 3 was bad but was home ) because it was on the road and would have gotten us to 2-0 . Such a lost opportunity.
But before I go on about so many positive things tonight , this was just an incredible screw job by the refs. How in the world can they miss 3 glaring errors at the end. After watching all the replays and frames it is very clear that:
1) When Caleb is shooting the second foul shot at 5.0 on the clock , it clearly does not start for at least 1 second if not longer on the Miss . The last shot would never have gotten counted or been attempted in time. ;
2) Clearly Thornton being forced by Caleb steps on the white line and it is clearly a turnover at 2- 2.5 seconds and we get ball back and win ;
3) Finally , the Rule is clear and the guy cannot be allowed to touch that ball after being out of bounds and the refs botched the Rule and should have given us the ball with a second on the clock.
3 screw ups in 5 seconds. Almost unimaginable and gut wrenching to any Rutgers fan and of course the players and the coaches. We could have been 2-0 in first place and in a really good place to challenge for the BiG 10 title. I am sick.
Now I love Pike more than any poster but I was suprised by his strategy. I know the analytics people say it is a 50/50 tossup whether to foul up 3 with that much time , 7.7 on the clock. But , but , but. He didn’t trust his elite defense that really locked up Ohio State in that second half and but for 2-3 lucky shots at the end of the shot clock , he was defending them really well and I would have trusted them and if they hit a desperation heave then you go Overtime. Geo actually said in a tweet or post that Pike normally does not foul in that situation but he did in this situation. Now clearly Mag was told to foul but he clearly botched the execution as I am sure he was told to let more time go off the clock as he fouled with 5.8 on the clock less than 2 seconds ( although clock operator was shaky down the stretch ) . Now no criticism of inbound to Caleb instead of Cam as Caleb was shooting 100% from the line 9-9 and he made the first. Remember Thornton missed one to give us the 1 point lead before Paul was fouled and he was shooting like 90% as well. I said it right away watching not as a second guess , that I did not like the strategy and Pike will get some blame to not play it out but if the refs do not f—- it up and miss 3 blatant errors in the last 5 seconds , Pike’s way would have worked but I did not like it at the time.
A lot more to say about all the players but I am so devastated by this loss( but the players I am sure will bounce back ) that will have to do it in another post. This loss just sucks as bad as any ( Weiscamp’s ridiculous 3 was bad but was home ) because it was on the road and would have gotten us to 2-0 . Such a lost opportunity.
good point, I think Pike thought he can get by and give confidence to Cam but at this point why. Now the question is does which of the 3, goes to the bench, does Cam still start over Hyatt and Mag. I say yes
Yes, it's been described as 50/50, but usually they are
(1) assuming proper execution
(2) assuming you get 2 FTs on the other end instead of 1-in-1
If we did this when WE were in double bonus and they were in single, it would make sense to me.
If we did this when we were both in double bonus I wouldn't like it but I could live with it
Doing it when they are in double and we are in single seems really bad to me.
I say bring back the same 3 refs for that game and let the RAC have its way with 'em too.
Not sure.. committing a foul trying to get the rebound would also be a disaster.
I don't think I have ever seen a bigger blown call on a blatant rule violation to decide outcome of a game in sports. Particularly because this a rule, not judgment call, and he was no where near inbounds.
im also thinking that Pike didnt plan to foul if Caleb missed. which further would perplex me because why do it the first place
Last play wasn't poorly defended at all. Caleb was awesome forcing the OSU guard out-of-bounds without fouling and the shot itself was an illegal play. Refs f'd-up both.
certainly, when you KNOW they have to shoot the three....just play smart and tough defense....don't foul, but have the team play to stop a three
I hate nobody lined up for the rebound. You tell them do not try to force anything or go over the back but you take some time off the clock not allowing them to grab the board uncontested and get momentum going up the court
And Crean was spot on with his comments. Put extra pressure on Caleb on the FT and for what? Nothing I hated more than shooting technical FTs with no one on the line. Surprised we didn’t send a memo to OSU to pull their guys too. 🤦♂️
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the refs have wiggle room on what happened at the end....they can say that the eventual shooter went out of bounds unintentionally and came back in, this is legal...
it may not be true, but it is the excuse after the fact
now, if the previous dribbler walked, or stepped out of bounds, there we have a legit complaint.
yeah although I think Hyatt was better than Mag tonight, if we could just take the best qualities from both we would have a really solid starting 4. I just think we will be on an endless up and down with these two.
I think it is asking a lot for the player to keep track of time remaining to give the foul....
better if the coach said wait for me to yell foul, if that was possible.
Hey Z-man!
well, we know he fouled too soon....my point is, the player can't keep track of how much time left if he is guarding a guy like his life is depending upon it..... if he could have waited till the ball crosses mid court, maybe another second, or two goes by....but then you never know if the guy is going to pull up and shoot even a deep one, once over mid court
its tough......sometimes I would rather play a good game and lose by 10 at the end...... this one hurts
Another great recap Bac.
The team needs to forget it(easier said than done) with Seton Hall on Sunday. The crowd will be electric, but it would have even been up another couple of notches if we had won tonight. I am sure that the plane ride home was probably as quiet as it possibly could have been.
Best of Luck,
Groz
The team needs to forget it(easier said than done) with Seton Hall on Sunday. The crowd will be electric, but it would have even been up another couple of notches if we had won tonight. I am sure that the plane ride home was probably as quiet as it possibly could have been.
Best of Luck,
Groz
Too many turnovers and too many offensive fouls. That crap drives me nuts.
The immediate foul by Mag at the end is a low IQ play. The team can't afford sloppy play.
Cam played well and Hyatt was under control.
The immediate foul by Mag at the end is a low IQ play. The team can't afford sloppy play.
Cam played well and Hyatt was under control.
I think Mag was told foul as soon as he crosses midcourt to avoid any chance of his man trying to draw a foul in the act of shooting
I HATED the foul with 5.8 seconds left. Just can’t defend it. It’s way too much time. If you don’t have confidence that your players aren’t going to foul someone in the act of shooting then you just have to play it out rather than have them foul before any time runs off the clock. These are college kids.
Spencer was open right away on the inbounds but Paul hesitated and threw it to Caleb instead. I have faith in Caleb at the line in the clutch generally but we were also still in the 1:1. So we could’ve easily come away with nothing also and simply lost on a 2 pointer or by fouling someone. Caleb certainly could’ve been called for a foul and given them a chance to tie at the line at the end but by that time the refs were obviously not going to call anything because they’re cowards and are afraid to call ANYTHING at the end of games generally.
One major positive coming out of this though was the return of Spencer. He looked very comfortable and efficient offensively which we are going to need. This team is challenged offensively but a confident Spencer can make a huge difference. Still want us to look to get him open deep looks. And for him to look for them too and not defer so much. We all love Caleb but I’d much rather have Cam shooting threes than Caleb.
Hopefully this will be a positive shock to the system for the team and not become a mental thing with road games where everyone is waiting for the wheels to fall off.
Spencer was open right away on the inbounds but Paul hesitated and threw it to Caleb instead. I have faith in Caleb at the line in the clutch generally but we were also still in the 1:1. So we could’ve easily come away with nothing also and simply lost on a 2 pointer or by fouling someone. Caleb certainly could’ve been called for a foul and given them a chance to tie at the line at the end but by that time the refs were obviously not going to call anything because they’re cowards and are afraid to call ANYTHING at the end of games generally.
One major positive coming out of this though was the return of Spencer. He looked very comfortable and efficient offensively which we are going to need. This team is challenged offensively but a confident Spencer can make a huge difference. Still want us to look to get him open deep looks. And for him to look for them too and not defer so much. We all love Caleb but I’d much rather have Cam shooting threes than Caleb.
Hopefully this will be a positive shock to the system for the team and not become a mental thing with road games where everyone is waiting for the wheels to fall off.
In a weird way I’m more content than I was at the end because I can more legitimately redirect my anger for the loss on the refs rather than being disgusted with simply blowing another late lead on the road through 100% of our doing. The fact that the world knows we are good enough to win and got screwed helps. Just wish Baker Mayfield didn’t happen and steal some of the headlines.
Curious--what is the wiggle room re: unintentional out-of-bounds violation?
first off, I think we got screwed, not defending the call
the wiggle room is part b.....even though that the eventual shooter was way out of bounds, both feet well out, if they determine his momentum carried him out, he could come back in and get the ball..... if you read part b as it is, its pretty clear
again, I don't believe it was a momentum thing, but the refs can now say that was it.....very unfair to us
Refs would be b.s.'ing then, which wouldn't be surprising re: cya. Clearly him drifting out-of-bounds had nothing to do with momentum--he wasn't running to or diving for the ball, he lost track of where he was on the floor, assuming it wasn't by design.
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you must be right....I have not seen a replay from an angle that would show his movement properly....the live shot was not that conclusive....
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