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Goodale; Some thoughts

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RUSpider

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Sep 14, 2017
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This post is neither an endorsement or an indictment of Coach Goodale. Undeniably, there has been a lot of debate as to whether Goodale is the right coach to bring Rutgers to the top level. Of course this debate exists due to the progress of the program under Goodale's leadership.

Goodale is a textbook example of being in the right place at the right time. Today, a coach with Goodale's credentials (when he was hired by Rutgers) would not be considered for an assistant's position much less a head coach job in the Big10. Due to the good fortune of the Winston family moving to Jackson Goodale offered several things to Rutgers. Obviously, the ability to sign Scott Winston was a major factor in Goodale's hiring. Also, at the time Rutger's was not looking to invest in wrestling. Goodale was a public school teacher and did not command or request a large salary. The program struggled for years under Goodale and despite landing its fair share of top talent failed to produce any AA's. It is said that Perrotti's AA saved Goodale's job.

Fast forward - Rutger's joins the Big 10. Donny Pritzlaff is hired. In comes Anthony Ashnault, followed by a top ten class and Nick Suriano. Rutger's is on the rise and it is under Goodale's leadership. Goodale will never have the technical chops of other Big10 coaches but he has lead the program into top ten territory. It appears that Rutger's has formula for success, Goodale as the manager and Pritzlaff as the wrestling guy. Can this formula make Rutgers a perennial top five team?
 
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RUSpider said:
This post is neither an endorsement or an indictment of Coach Goodale. Undeniably, there has been a lot of debate as to whether Goodale is the right coach to bring Rutgers to the top level. Of course this debate exists due to the progress of the program under Goodale's leadership.

Goodale is a textbook example of being in the right place time. Today, a coach with Goodale's credentials (when he was hired by Rutgers) would not be considered for an assistant's position much less a head coach job in the Big10. Due to the good fortune of the Winston family moving to Jackson Goodale offered several things to Rutgers. Obviously, the ability to sign Scott Winston was a major factor in Goodale's hiring. Also, at the time Rutger's was not looking to invest in wrestling. Goodale was a public school teacher and did not command or request a large salary. The program struggled for years under Goodale and despite landing its fair share of top talent failed to produce any AA's. It is said that Perrotti's AA saved Goodale's job.

Fast forward - Rutger's joins the Big 10. Donny Pritzlaff is hired. In comes Anthony Ashnault, followed by a top ten class and Nick Suriano. Rutger's is on the rise and it is under Goodale's leadership. Goodale will never have the technical chop's of other Big10 coaches but he has lead the program into top ten territory. It appears that Rutger's has formula for success, Goodale as the manager and Pritzlaff as the wrestling guy. Can this formula make Rutgers a perennial top five team?
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Good 1st post last week, 2nd post should drop you a few pegs. As Ole Cabbagehead pointed out you are off on a few of your timelines.
Also do you think the Winston family packed up the moving van and ran out of gas in Jackson? Or perhaps they moved to Jackson due to Coach Goodale's success and wanted to be part of the Jackson program?
 
Ole Cabbagehead said:
I guess that is one way to re-write history. Your timeline is a little off in a few places, though.

Also, you say "it is said that Perrotti's AA saved Goodale's job." Who says that? Nobody close to the program.
Click to expand...
ScarletGrapfan said:
Good 1st post last week, 2nd post should drop you a few pegs. As Ole Cabbagehead pointed out you are off on a few of your timelines.
Also do you think the Winston family packed up the moving van and ran out of gas in Jackson? Or perhaps they moved to Jackson due to Coach Goodale's success and wanted to be part of the Jackson program?
Ole Cabbagehead said:
I guess that is one way to re-write history. Your timeline is a little off in a few places, though.

Also, you say "it is said that Perrotti's AA saved Goodale's job." Who says that? Nobody close to the program.
Click to expand...
Perrotti for one. Ask him next time you see him.
Click to expand...
 
Rutgers wrestling "struggled for years under Goodale"


2007-08 (Rutgers) 11-7 .611 5-3 (EIWA) .625

2008-09 (Rutgers) 20-7 .741 7-1 (EIWA)

2009-10 (Rutgers) 19-5-1 .780 6-2 (EIWA)

2010-11 (Rutgers) 21-2 .913 8-1 (EIWA)

2011-12 (Rutgers) 13-8 .619 5-1 (EIWA)

2012-13 (Rutgers) 16-4 .800 6-1 (EIWA)

2013-14 (Rutgers) 11-5 .688 7-2 (EIWA)

2014-15 (Rutgers) 14-7 .667 2-7 (Big Ten)

2015-16 (Rutgers) 16-5 .762 5-4 (Big Ten)

2016-17 (Rutgers) 12-5 .666 6-3 (Big Ten)

Career Record 153-55-1 .735 57-25

EIWA Record (Seven Seasons) 44-11 .800

Big Ten Record (Two Seasons) 13-14 .481


The simple reality is, Winston never achieved AA status despite that fact that many expected him to. So you either blame Goodale for that, or you blame the wrestler. To say Perotti saved Goodale's career is ludicrous. Perotti reaching the levels he did is a feather in Goodale's cap. He wasn't supposed to AA. Nobody expected him to. Instead, he became a two time all-american.

These posts make me angry. You say its not an indictment, and then give Goodale zero credit for basically building the entire program from the ground up. Like that just happened, and he was along for the ride. At what point, in your eyes, is he a college wrestling coach, and not a school teacher? Will another decade of success do it for you?
 
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wngarbarini said:
If you have never been in the room to evaluate Goodale's technical chops, you would not make that statement. Coaching is not magic. You need the top talent and soon you become a genius.
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You seem to be a long time fan. So you must remember Rutgers inability to mat wrestle until Pritzlaff got hired. No turns on top and getting ridden out on bottom.
 
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So you are going to claim Perotti told you he saved Goodale's job? Okay, then its simple for me to respond. There is not a shred of truth to that. Why would you think a wrestler would know about the personnel decisions? That's just a little silly.

Even if you don't like Goodale, look at the state of the athletic department at the time. You really think they were going to go an invest in another wrestling coach in 2014? With Ashnault, a probable 4 time AA and possible NC on roster? A coach who had posted 7 straight winning seasons, and finished second in conference multiple times? With an archaic practice facility in the basement of the college ave gym? Who were they gonna hire? Cael?

I mean really, that comment is just idiotic. The entire AD, with the exception of wrestling was basically in disarray.
 
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Exactly Cabbage. Goodale never has had a losing season as HC, has posted double digit wins in every season as HC, and has a winning record in 2 of the 3 seasons he's coached in the B1G, and will be 3 of 4 after this year.
 
Ole Cabbagehead said:
Rutgers wrestling "struggled for years under Goodale"


2007-08 (Rutgers) 11-7 .611 5-3 (EIWA) .625

2008-09 (Rutgers) 20-7 .741 7-1 (EIWA)

2009-10 (Rutgers) 19-5-1 .780 6-2 (EIWA)

2010-11 (Rutgers) 21-2 .913 8-1 (EIWA)

2011-12 (Rutgers) 13-8 .619 5-1 (EIWA)

2012-13 (Rutgers) 16-4 .800 6-1 (EIWA)

2013-14 (Rutgers) 11-5 .688 7-2 (EIWA)

2014-15 (Rutgers) 14-7 .667 2-7 (Big Ten)

2015-16 (Rutgers) 16-5 .762 5-4 (Big Ten)

2016-17 (Rutgers) 12-5 .666 6-3 (Big Ten)

Career Record 153-55-1 .735 57-25

EIWA Record (Seven Seasons) 44-11 .800

Big Ten Record (Two Seasons) 13-14 .481


The simple reality is, Winston never achieved AA status despite that fact that many expected him to. So you either blame Goodale for that, or you blame the wrestler. To say Perotti saved Goodale's career is ludicrous. Perotti reaching the levels he did is a feather in Goodale's cap. He wasn't supposed to AA. Nobody expected him to. Instead, he became a two time all-american.

These posts make me angry. You say its not an indictment, and then give Goodale zero credit for basically building the entire program from the ground up. Like that just happened, and he was along for the ride. At what point, in your eyes, is he a college wrestling coach, and not a school teacher? Will another decade of success do it for you?
Click to expand...

Finish at NCAA's is a more valid measurement. There is a reason that there is no duals championship.
 
I been around wrestling and New Jersey wrestling long enough to render an opinion. If you disagree, fine. I actually like Scott and have spoken with him several times. He is a good leader for the program. I also think that he has grown into the position. Tellingly, my positive comments about Goodale are ignored.

Regardless, I stand by the veracity of everything that I posted.
 
RUSpider said:
I been around wrestling and New Jersey wrestling long enough to render an opinion. If you disagree, fine. I actually like Scott and have spoken with him several times. He is a good leader for the program. I also think that he has grown into the position. Tellingly, my positive comments about Goodale are ignored.

Regardless, I stand by the veracity of everything that I posted.
Click to expand...
Thought that your post was a reasonable expression of opinion. You should be able to do that without being attacked with venom.
 
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RUSpider said:
Pray enlighten me as to what is speculative, dubious or flat out wrong in my post.
Click to expand...


You were wrong when you said the program struggled under Goodale. The program has been a ray of light at Rutgers, since Goodale was hired. In fact, the program itself has improved nearly every year since he was hired, reaching heights it never before reached, nearly every year, year in year out. You were wrong when you said Ashnault came in after Pritzlaff. You were wrong when you said Perrotti save Goodale's job.

Whether or not Goodale will plateau as a coach is a fair debate. It is no mystery we need to raise more money, and recruit at a higher level to continue climbing into the top ten. What is not fair is raising this debate until we actually have plateaued. It is certainly not a fair debate when the school is coming off its best ever finish at NCAA tournament, with a likelihood of improving upon that finish once again this year.
 
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Ole Cabbagehead said:
You were wrong when you said the program struggled under Goodale. The program has been a ray of light at Rutgers, since Goodale was hired. In fact, the program itself has improved nearly every year since he was hired, reaching heights it never before reached, nearly every year, year in year out. You were wrong when you said Ashnault came in after Pritzlaff. You were wrong when you said Perrotti save Goodale's job.

Whether or not Goodale will plateau as a coach is a fair debate. It is no mystery we need to raise more money, and recruit at a higher level to continue climbing into the top ten. What is not fair is raising this debate until we actually have plateaued. It is certainly not a fair debate when the school is coming off its best ever finish at NCAA tournament, with a likelihood of improving upon that finish once again this year.
Click to expand...

Goodale is solid and the right guy. The only other RU coach I have as much faith in is Pike.

That said, I'm very impressed with Donny also.: we are very fortunate to have him here and he helps bring us up a level. That's a credit to Goodale for getting him here.
 
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Ole Cabbagehead said:
You were wrong when you said the program struggled under Goodale. The program has been a ray of light at Rutgers, since Goodale was hired. In fact, the program itself has improved nearly every year since he was hired, reaching heights it never before reached, nearly every year, year in year out. You were wrong when you said Ashnault came in after Pritzlaff. You were wrong when you said Perrotti save Goodale's job.

Whether or not Goodale will plateau as a coach is a fair debate. It is no mystery we need to raise more money, and recruit at a higher level to continue climbing into the top ten. What is not fair is raising this debate until we actually have plateaued. It is certainly not a fair debate when the school is coming off its best ever finish at NCAA tournament, with a likelihood of improving upon that finish once again this year.
Click to expand...

A few things:
(1) Maybe I am old school but in my opinion the real wrestling starts in March. The goal of any NCAA D1 team is to have AAs and to score points at the NCAAs. This is something Rutgers has struggled with but is improving. I concur that Rutgers has been a quality duals team under Goodale.

(2) Lookin at this years schedule the results maybe reversed. The duals record might not be as strong but Rutgers will have their best NCAA finish ever.

(3) The second paragraph of my initial post was not a timeline. I am aware of when Pritzlaff was hired. That being said my post did state that Pritzlaff and Goodale's skill sets compliment each other.

(4) Lastly, lets agree to disagree about Perotti's AA potentially saving Goodale's job.
 
RUSpider said:
This post is neither an endorsement or an indictment of Coach Goodale. Undeniably, there has been a lot of debate as to whether Goodale is the right coach to bring Rutgers to the top level. Of course this debate exists due to the progress of the program under Goodale's leadership.

Goodale is a textbook example of being in the right place at the right time. Today, a coach with Goodale's credentials (when he was hired by Rutgers) would not be considered for an assistant's position much less a head coach job in the Big10. Due to the good fortune of the Winston family moving to Jackson Goodale offered several things to Rutgers. Obviously, the ability to sign Scott Winston was a major factor in Goodale's hiring. Also, at the time Rutger's was not looking to invest in wrestling. Goodale was a public school teacher and did not command or request a large salary. The program struggled for years under Goodale and despite landing its fair share of top talent failed to produce any AA's. It is said that Perrotti's AA saved Goodale's job.

Fast forward - Rutger's joins the Big 10. Donny Pritzlaff is hired. In comes Anthony Ashnault, followed by a top ten class and Nick Suriano. Rutger's is on the rise and it is under Goodale's leadership. Goodale will never have the technical chops of other Big10 coaches but he has lead the program into top ten territory. It appears that Rutger's has formula for success, Goodale as the manager and Pritzlaff as the wrestling guy. Can this formula make Rutgers a perennial top five team?
Click to expand...

Yes. Rutgers can become a perennial top five wrestling team. Scott Goodale is a great wrestling coach and so is Donny Pritzlaff. Rutgers Wrestling is on the rise. The program just seems to keep getting better under Scott Goodale's leadership.
 
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IMO, Donny Pritzlaff is the best hire of a coach by Rutgers..Period.
He brought credibility to a B10 Staff at a crucial time in the development of the program.
The fact that Scott Goodale brought him shows me he can recruit coaches as well as wrestlers.

Anthony Ashnault was a huge recruit. (Potential 4X All American is an amazing accomplishmen)
Malcom Robinson (Blair Recruit) is huge.
Nic Suriano goes without saying.

Hopefully A. Ashnault can join the SKWC and continue to help RU wrestling grow..

IN the past, just getting an All American was the goal of the program, now the expectations are multiple AA's. That is a very big jump in 10 years.
 
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rudad02 said:
Thought that your post was a reasonable expression of opinion. You should be able to do that without being attacked with venom.
Click to expand...

Reasonable if you believe that Goodale was ever in danger of being fired. He was not. I would like to see you even try to prove this.
 
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Maybe the real wrestling does begin and end in March. But duals are what sell tickets, and Goodale's prioritization of duals made the program a hit on campus, got the alumni involved, and convinced the administration (3 separate administrations) to invest in a program that was on the chopping block when he came aboard. Its a business proposition for a cash strapped school. Goody showed them wrestling could be a revenue sport at Rutgers.

That (and the help of some seriously dedicated alumni) are what got RU out of the Gym and into the RAC (with a sold out lower level, to boot), fully funded for scholarships, and has us about 18 months away from a state of the art practice facility.
 
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RUSpider said:
Pray enlighten me as to what is speculative, dubious or flat out wrong in my post.
Click to expand...
you don't have a good sense of the history of Rutgers' wrestling program or what it takes to be a successful wrestling program at the D1 level.

Rutgers went from where George Mason is now to contending with traditional Big Ten powers. it's a very long process and it takse more than just keeping up with the competition. you have to do more than other programs like Rutgers that are trying to catch up and get to the next level.

almost every statement you made is speculative, ("It is said that Perrotti's AA saved Goodale's job." You are flat out wrong that "The program struggled for years under Goodale." The program constantly and consistently improved under Goodale.

so lets skip all the nonsense you mentioned at the beginning of the OP and get to the actual discussion.

"Can this formula make Rutgers a perennial top five team?"

this has been discussed in other threads but what Rutgers' current formula lacks right now are top notch facilities and a much larger Regional Training Center. that is what all the perennial top 5 teams have AND many of the top 20 programs that are also trying to crack the top 5 (Lehigh, NC State, Nebraska, VTech, etc etc).

those things costs millions of dollars, first to create and then annually to maintain. If Rutgers had the facilities and RTC and funding, could the current coaching staff take them to the next level? IMO it would be pretty silly to assume the people that took them from 50th to now wasn't the right team. but I'm open to hearing other reasonable points of view.
 
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Jaroslav Hasek said:
you don't have a good sense of the history of Rutgers' wrestling program or what it takes to be a successful wrestling program at the D1 level.

Rutgers went from where George Mason is now to contending with traditional Big Ten powers. it's a very long process and it takse more than just keeping up with the competition. you have to do more than other programs like Rutgers that are trying to catch up and get to the next level.

almost every statement you made is speculative, ("It is said that Perrotti's AA saved Goodale's job." You are flat out wrong that "The program struggled for years under Goodale." The program constantly and consistently improved under Goodale.

so lets skip all the nonsense you mentioned at the beginning of the OP and get to the actual discussion.

"Can this formula make Rutgers a perennial top five team?"

this has been discussed in other threads but what Rutgers' current formula lacks right now are top notch facilities and a much larger Regional Training Center. that is what all the perennial top 5 teams have AND many of the top 20 programs that are also trying to crack the top 5 (Lehigh, NC State, Nebraska, VTech, etc etc).

those things costs millions of dollars, first to create and then annually to maintain. If Rutgers had the facilities and RTC and funding, could the current coaching staff take them to the next level? IMO it would be pretty silly to assume the people that took them from 50th to now wasn't the right team. but I'm open to hearing other reasonable points of view.
Click to expand...

Is the joint RU - Princeton RTC still on drawing board, or has shipped sailed?
 
How much do you guys think the Rutger's rise is attributable to joining the Big Ten? I would think it is a pretty big portion of it.
 
I've been following RU Wrestling since 2005, when the highlights of our recruit classes were NJ state place winners (my cousin being 1 of them). You can't deny the fact that the program has endured steady progress forward since Goodale has been hired. I think its a combination of things.
  • Goodale had a good reputation when he was hired and was well known in the NJ Wrestling scene, so he was able to start adding recruiting classes led by NJ state champions, starting in 2008 with Winston's class
  • Billy Ashnault becoming Director of Wrestling Operations
  • Joining the Big Ten
  • Hiring Donny Pritzlaff

Winston was the start of quality commits to RU, showing that you didnt have to leave NJ for a chance to compete against top collegiate wrestlers. Billy Ashnault was a great addition, and I would assume, eventually led to the recruiting of Anthony.

Joining the Big Ten has taken recruiting to another level. Our recruiting classes are now consistently led by multiple state champions and nationally recognized talent.

Coach Goodale, deserves a great deal of recognition for how far the program has come in 10 years. He was the right man for the job in 2007, he took us to the next level and brought in some of the best in NJ wrestling history.

However, I do think that our coaching staff is not on par with other Big Ten programs and it could hold us back in the future. A coaching staff that all have credentials similar to Pritzlaff will attract more of those blue chip recruits. How long will Pritzlaff stick around before a top 25 program makes him an offer he cant refuse? I believe I heard his name come up in the past for the Iowa State and Northwestern positions.
 
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