Griffiths

[Scangg]

I don’t think that’s what they are saying. Gavin wasn’t going to be starting. He never does, right? Nothing new.

When the game started Pike saw immediately that In this game, J William’s could have his way beating Michigan’s players off the dribble. Once this was established - it freed up opportunities to find Cliff under the basket either for assisted dunks or in position to take a few dribbles and make a play at the basket with limited contest. The stat book assist numbers really underscore J William’s impact on Cliff’s success in this game. But nevermind that - Pike knew an easy path to a W was A) an offensive focus of - 1) J Will iso threat option 1. 2) When Michigan over compensates to prevent J Williams penetration - exploit it by finding Cliff open. And B) otherwise go with our best defensive line up / ball handlers to prevent turnovers. To break open the game - the last thing he wanted was a 3 point shooter like Gavin trying to find his stroke instead of sticking to blueprint A1 and 2. I imagine that was BAC’s point and nothing more by our strategy.

When J Williams picked up his second foul, Pike chose to try and run with Noah, Austin and Oskar and slow things down to ride out the half - our 3 best statistical shooters. He was forced to put Derek back in at one point because we couldn’t handle Michigan’s pressure without J Will (Davis and Noah are shakier ball handlers than J Will and Derek).

Perhaps Pike could’ve gone with Gavin instead of Oskar at that point but Cliff was out and it was already a small line up. Oskar is a bigger (physically) body. We also weren’t looking for quick shots at that point to get Gavin’s motor going. Pike wanted to preserve the lead. It didn’t work out that way as Michigan went on a 10-0 run but that’s probably what he was thinking.

Williams only had 2 assists so strange comment that the stat book assist numbers underscored his impact

1 and 2 typically require 3... a 3 point shooter to spread the court and prevent defenses from collapsing around 1 and 2

Pike went to the deep bench skipping over Gavin and we gave up a 10 point run. That pretty much says it wasn't the right move unless you think it would have been 15 if Gavin played

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Williams only had 2 assists so strange comment that the stat book assist numbers underscored his impact

1 and 2 typically require 3... a 3 point shooter to spread the court and prevent defenses from collapsing around 1 and 2

Pike went to the deep bench skipping over Gavin and we gave up a 10 point run. That pretty much says it wasn't the right move unless you think it would have been 15 if Gavin played

It’s not a strange comment. Watch the game again. Those plays where Cliff was wide open to drive a few dribbles for a lay up. Why do you think he was so open? They were over compensating for J Williams - because they had to. He could literally drive all day one on one on everyone on Michigan’s roster. I’m saying those buckets aren’t recorded as assists for Jeremiah but his presence on the court made them possible.

I’ll add - Davis was able to penetrate and do some of what Jeremiah could do too in this game. But he couldn’t handle the press so Pike had to take him out. Without Davis or J William’s out there Cliff doesn’t get those looks.

 

[RedTeam1994]

No - in this instant that’s not what he said. He commented that it’s a weird game to complain about Gavin (but really you could fill in the blank and say any player) not getting enough PT. His only point was that when you win by 30, the substitution patterns were clearly successful on that given day.

I think your comment immediately above (responding to scang) about why Gavin didn’t play in the first half was very insightful and likely accurate

But don’t impart your insightful analysis onto FIG .. lol

He’s not nearly as nuanced. His comment was simply more of the same anti-Gavin drivel

 

[Scangg]

It’s not a strange comment. Watch the game again. Those plays where Cliff was wide open to drive a few dribbles for a lay up. Why do you think he was so open? They were over compensating for J Williams - because they had to. He could literally drive all day one on one on everyone on Michigan’s roster. I’m saying those buckets aren’t recorded as assists for Jeremiah but his presence on the court made them possible.

I’ll add - Davis was able to penetrate and do some of what Jeremiah could do too in this game. But he couldn’t handle the press so Pike had to take him out. Without Davis or J William’s out there Cliff doesn’t get those looks.

Maybe you meant to say that those buckets weren't recorded as assists but you said the opposite

"The stat book assist numbers really underscore J William’s impact on Cliff’s success in this game."

 

[RUTrack94]

Some times things just click. Team played very well and had one of those games. Hopefully a few more this year.

 

[zappaa]

From a purely fanatic perspective in the heat of the moment and game.
I greatly dislike the ball in GG’s hands.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I think your comment immediately above (responding to scang) about why Gavin didn’t play in the first half was very insightful and likely accurate

But don’t impart your insightful analysis onto FIG .. lol

He’s not nearly as nuanced. His comment was simply more of the same anti-Gavin drivel

Let me make two thing absolutely clear......
I am rooting as much as anyone to see Gavin succeed.
I also badly want to see us win basketball games.

Let me ask a question....
Do people think playing Gavin 15 minutes (and taking 5 minutes away from Hyatt, AWill and Oskar) improves our chances of winning?
If the answer is no....am I wrong to say let's not play Gavin?

 

[SirScarlet]

Griffiths made one 3 pointer but again his teammates aren't passing him the ball when he is open for shots.

We don't do a great job passing to ANYONE who is wide open for a shot

 

[fluoxetine]

Until Gavin learns to play in the flow of the game he’s not going to be good. His shot selection is awful. On the bright side, that (and his high school evaluations) makes me think his bad shooting percentages aren’t necessarily indicative of his actual shooting ability. On the downside, he’s still doing it and we’re almost to the end of the season.

Also, I don’t know jack shit about basketball from an actual playing the game perspective, and he was so far out of position on one play last night on defense that even I noticed it mid play. It resulted in a Michigan three. I am sure the kid has talent and I would love for him to succeed but he does not get infinite time to get his shit together just because of a high recruiting ranking.

 

[SirScarlet]

Let me make two thing absolutely clear......
I am rooting as much as anyone to see Gavin succeed.
I also badly want to see us win basketball games.

Let me ask a question....
Do people think playing Gavin 15 minutes (and taking 5 minutes away from Hyatt, AWill and Oskar) improves our chances of winning?
If the answer is no....am I wrong to say let's not play Gavin?

I don't have an issue with the question you're posing. At the highest level of course you want to play the guys the minutes that lead you to a victory.

Where I think Pike has fallen down a bit this year - IMHO - is he has gotten some of his concoctions wrong. For example I am in the fan club of playing the hot hand. Too many times this year Pike will sub out a player who is the only hot player on the court. I guess you can do that when you have plug and play snipers on the bench but that is not our team. And I think it has cost us some games.

So I am not getting into the middle of this Gavin debate... I am making more of a general comment. And I think if Pike is being honest he will admit that he has not gotten the most out of his rotations this year. To be fair this has also been a really hard team to sort out given the late departures, the new Talent, and just the general (lack of) Talent on the full roster

 

[Scangg]

Let me make two thing absolutely clear......
I am rooting as much as anyone to see Gavin succeed.
I also badly want to see us win basketball games.

Let me ask a question....
Do people think playing Gavin 15 minutes (and taking 5 minutes away from Hyatt, AWill and Oskar) improves our chances of winning?
If the answer is no....am I wrong to say let's not play Gavin?

Wrong argument to make in a blowout from opening tip

 

[RedTeam1994]

Let me make two thing absolutely clear......
I am rooting as much as anyone to see Gavin succeed.
I also badly want to see us win basketball games.

Let me ask a question....
Do people think playing Gavin 15 minutes (and taking 5 minutes away from Hyatt, AWill and Oskar) improves our chances of winning?
If the answer is no....am I wrong to say let's not play Gavin?

It’s a bad /poorly written question.

Do you mean give Gavin 15 total minutes or 15 more minutes?

Giving him 15 more minutes is absurd. No one is suggesting that

Giving him 15 total ? When he averages a little below that now?!?

Sure.

Is AWill really crushing it? Take a minute or two away from AWill? Easy decision

Oskar? Senior. Very limited player. He’s hardly crushing it. Plays admirably when called upon . But come on. Take a minute or two from him? Absolutely

Hyatt? Also gone next year. And he’s been pretty inconsistent lately. So take a minute or so from him.

So if Gavin is averaging 12 minutes now- take a minute from each of them.

Easy question

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Wrong argument to make in a blowout from opening tip

1. It is 4:59 AM. Why are you awake.
2. Pike managed the game exactly the way i have been asking. Gavin played when the game was in hand

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

It’s a bad /poorly written question.

Do you mean give Gavin 15 total minutes or 15 more minutes?

Giving him 15 more minutes is absurd. No one is suggesting that

Giving him 15 total ? When he averages a little below that now?!?

Sure.

Is AWill really crushing it? Take a minute or two away from AWill? Easy decision

Oskar? Senior. Very limited player. He’s hardly crushing it. Plays admirably when called upon . But come on. Take a minute or two from him? Absolutely

Hyatt? Also gone next year. So take a minute or so from him.

So if Gavin is averaging 12 minutes now- take a minute from each of them.

Easy question

This is where we disagree. It is OK.

dont underestimate the importance of those 14 offensive and defensive possessions.

Everyone and their mother has been asking for Pike to reduce people in rotation………accept when it is Gavin out of the rotation.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Maybe you meant to say that those buckets weren't recorded as assists but you said the opposite

"The stat book assist numbers really underscore J William’s impact on Cliff’s success in this game."

Fair enough - typo. I will modify to understate. That’s what I meant.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The focus should be more on the defensive side and not what counting stats are being put up.

No doubt that Gavin has improved a ton on defense and he has been defensive rebounding. He still is bad on defense, just less bad.

 

[RedTeam1994]

This is where we disagree. It is OK.

dont underestimate the importance of those 14 offensive and defensive possessions.

Everyone and their mother has been asking for Pike to reduce people in rotation………accept when it is Gavin out of the rotation.

You say “youre rooting for Gavin like the rest us” but you seem to want him to get no minutes . Otherwise your comments make no sense.

The kid is getting like what 12-15 minutes a game? I don’t think there are too many people on here saying he should be getting more. I dont. I am sure there are a few but I think the overall opinion is to keep giving him those minutes.

You seem to think even those minutes is stealing minutes from the likes of AWill, Hyatt and Oskar. Puhleaze.

If pike was putting Gavin in instead of JWill or Cliff I’d agree

But Gavin getting a few more minutes at the expense of a minute or two each from AWill, Hyatt and Oscar (to maintain the 12-15 minutes) he’s getting.

No brainer.

 

[Scangg]

1. It is 4:59 AM. Why are you awake.
2. Pike managed the game exactly the way i have been asking. Gavin played when the game was in hand

1. I've been suffering from insomnia the last two weeks and tonight is looking like an all nighter sadly

2. We had a 20 point lead in the first half and Michigan looked pathetic. If the bar is 20 points and half way through the second then he's not playing the rest of the season

 

[Scangg]

Fair enough - typo. I will modify to understate. That’s what I meant.

I agree with that

 

[scarlet4life]

Gavin has absolutely struggled for long stretches this year, but last night would have been a good game to give him some extra minutes, especially after he made a 3. Would help with a little confidence boost maybe. That being said, I totally understand why Noah didn't pass to him and shot instead. He was feeling it, and he is fighting for more minutes for himself.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

This is where we disagree. It is OK.

dont underestimate the importance of those 14 offensive and defensive possessions.

Everyone and their mother has been asking for Pike to reduce people in rotation………accept when it is Gavin out of the rotation.

I don’t disagree with your general point - but for the avoidance of doubt - your not suggesting that in this particular game, his “reduced” minutes relative to his season average mattered at all in terms of the game outcome - correct?

More specifically - taking out the garbage time minutes - figure there were maybe 6-8 later first half minutes he didn’t get that he normally (in prior games) would have played where Pike played Oskar in his place. Your not suggesting that this particular game would have gone differently if Gavin got those minutes instead - right?

 

[Yeah Baby]

this is a bizarre thread to focus on GG as the reason we blew out a shit team that plays no defense

we won tonight because of Pike strategy and gameprep

the team was executing it so well for most of the first half that no change was needed

Amazing what happens when we hit our first 7 shots and play great D on top of it. Dumb to focus on Gavin in this thread. Dumb to focus on any player in any thread in a negative way. We have a lot of great fans but many really stupid fans. Really stupid.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I am only going to change the dynamic of the thread away from Gavin and just replace the name with Hyatt and instead of talking about this year, we can rewind the timeframe to last season. It appears to be the same things we read about Hyatt last year, it's just transferred over to Gavin with some posters this year.

Down the stretch last season when Hyatt struggled, we saw the same ridiculous stuff about how Oskar has passed Hyatt in the rotation or whatever flavor of the day was mentioned....it was how supposedly bad Hyatt was on defense etc.....now that same narrative is being passed onto Gavin.

Anyone who is fair, would acknowledge that Gavin has actually improved a LOT on defense from 3 months ago until today. At the same time, he is not going to be a plus defender, so we have to temper expectations about what to expect out of Gavin on defense.....the same way I tried to explain that Hyatt would never be a plus defender. They need to improve and I'd like to think Hyatt has improved on defense from last year to this year. Why can't we continue to see that from Griffiths??

All I know is at worse, Gavin can play the Aundre Hyatt role next year, as a somewhat different look we provide opponents and he knocks down some shots and grabs a few rebounds.

The team got going in transition and found Cliff for points, something that didn't happen foe a lot of OOC play. That is JWill being a better option at guard and making plays. The faster we play, the more consistent and effective Cliff becomes.

I see the same thing with Gavin Griffiths....he is not going to excel in half court, grind it out basketball.....but RU is still trending next year, towards looking like Wisconsin and Michigan at the RAC in February 2024, than what we looked like in November 2023. The faster we play and the fewer mistakes Gavin makes on defense, the more minutes he can play.......fewer mistakes on defense, more passes on offense, better shot selection and taking shots in transition. All items that will be upgraded this offseason.

I'd like to think RU is a bubble team with JWill playing all of January and I think Gavin would be more effective with more JWill than not. As we move into 2024-25, I don't see any real reason to doubt Gavin gets more locked in on assignments on defense and he'll grow into a Hyatt role. There's a lot to look at that's getting better beyond the shooting percentages or how many close-outs are a step slower than they should be.

 

[RUInsanity]

Until Gavin learns to play in the flow of the game he’s not going to be good. His shot selection is awful. On the bright side, that (and his high school evaluations) makes me think his bad shooting percentages aren’t necessarily indicative of his actual shooting ability. On the downside, he’s still doing it and we’re almost to the end of the season.

Also, I don’t know jack shit about basketball from an actual playing the game perspective, and he was so far out of position on one play last night on defense that even I noticed it mid play. It resulted in a Michigan three. I am sure the kid has talent and I would love for him to succeed but he does not get infinite time to get his shit together just because of a high recruiting ranking.

To me it was more nuanced and a bit more difficult to tell if he was out of position. I could be wrong on timing but if i recall correctly it was at a point in the game where he and Palm were the "bigs" on the floor spelling Cliff. Gavin was the only one in the post on D. His man slipped out to a corner 3 position and Gavin did not rotate quickly enough out to guard him - so in that sense it did appear to be all on Gavin. What we don't know is that if someone else did not rotate appropriately into the post to allow Gavin to leave quickly enough to get to his man. The point is that zone rotations are dynamic and dependent. If Gavin rotated out and left the post unmanned - then he might also be at fault for an easy inside basket.

 

[Scangg]

I am only going to change the dynamic of the thread away from Gavin and just replace the name with Hyatt and instead of talking about this year, we can rewind the timeframe to last season. It appears to be the same things we read about Hyatt last year, it's just transferred over to Gavin with some posters this year.

Down the stretch last season when Hyatt struggled, we saw the same ridiculous stuff about how Oskar has passed Hyatt in the rotation or whatever flavor of the day was mentioned....it was how supposedly bad Hyatt was on defense etc.....now that same narrative is being passed onto Gavin.

Anyone who is fair, would acknowledge that Gavin has actually improved a LOT on defense from 3 months ago until today. At the same time, he is not going to be a plus defender, so we have to temper expectations about what to expect out of Gavin on defense.....the same way I tried to explain that Hyatt would never be a plus defender. They need to improve and I'd like to think Hyatt has improved on defense from last year to this year. Why can't we continue to see that from Griffiths??

All I know is at worse, Gavin can play the Aundre Hyatt role next year, as a somewhat different look we provide opponents and he knocks down some shots and grabs a few rebounds.

The team got going in transition and found Cliff for points, something that didn't happen foe a lot of OOC play. That is JWill being a better option at guard and making plays. The faster we play, the more consistent and effective Cliff becomes.

I see the same thing with Gavin Griffiths....he is not going to excel in half court, grind it out basketball.....but RU is still trending next year, towards looking like Wisconsin and Michigan at the RAC in February 2024, than what we looked like in November 2023. The faster we play and the fewer mistakes Gavin makes on defense, the more minutes he can play.......fewer mistakes on defense, more passes on offense, better shot selection and taking shots in transition. All items that will be upgraded this offseason.

I'd like to think RU is a bubble team with JWill playing all of January and I think Gavin would be more effective with more JWill than not. As we move into 2024-25, I don't see any real reason to doubt Gavin gets more locked in on assignments on defense and he'll grow into a Hyatt role. There's a lot to look at that's getting better beyond the shooting percentages or how many close-outs are a step slower than they should be.

Agree with some of the Gavin stuff regarding faster play, but comparing a freshman this year in Gavin to a 4th year Hyatt last year is a different situation for sure

Oskar did play significantly more minutes than Hyatt in multiple games down the stretch. Hyatt had some single digit minute games and that was without Mag eating up the minutes at the 4

 

[PhillyRU]

Just purely an observation, but it doesn’t seem like Gavin’s shooting splits are that bad when he gets comfortable, in-rhythm threes which, well duh, but most people don’t take contested threes.

His shot selection blows and I don’t envy Pike trying to navigate something more seemingly mental than physical. Also he’s really lazy executing the half-court sets we do run.

 

[fluoxetine]

To me it was more nuanced and a bit more difficult to tell if he was out of position. I could be wrong on timing but if i recall correctly it was at a point in the game where he and Palm were the "bigs" on the floor spelling Cliff. Gavin was the only one in the post on D. His man slipped out to a corner 3 position and Gavin did not rotate quickly enough out to guard him - so in that sense it did appear to be all on Gavin. What we don't know is that if someone else did not rotate appropriately into the post to allow Gavin to leave quickly enough to get to his man. The point is that zone rotations are dynamic and dependent. If Gavin rotated out and left the post unmanned - then he might also be at fault for an easy inside basket.

Yeah you might be right.

 

[bac2therac]

This is where we disagree. It is OK.

dont underestimate the importance of those 14 offensive and defensive possessions.

Everyone and their mother has been asking for Pike to reduce people in rotation………accept when it is Gavin out of the rotation.

you are the one that keeps using the players are tired argument, now you want guys like Hyatt who isnt very good when placed in a starring role to see more time. which argument do you want to use now

Gavin played 11 minutes yesterday all in the 2nd half...what was the issue with that.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Stop it

Austin and oskae and hyatt arent playing over 25 and they can absorb minutes

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I don’t disagree with your general point - but for the avoidance of doubt - your not suggesting that in this particular game, his “reduced” minutes relative to his season average mattered at all in terms of the game outcome - correct?

More specifically - taking out the garbage time minutes - figure there were maybe 6-8 later first half minutes he didn’t get that he normally (in prior games) would have played where Pike played Oskar in his place. Your not suggesting that this particular game would have gone differently if Gavin got those minutes instead - right?

No

 

[AreYouNUTS]

He certainly hasnt helped

There is a part of me that wonders what would have happened if pike hadnt force fed gavin minutes

OMFG ….stop.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Anyone that doesnt agree or see the following isnt being honest with themselves

1. Gavin has been real bad this year
2. Certain multiple teammates are not passing to him
3. It isnt good for morale to give him minutes over others as he hasnt earned them

I think you have a very, VERY clear anti-Gavin Griffiths bias.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

OMFG ….stop.

I think you have a very, VERY clear anti-Gavin Griffiths bias.

Not at all.

I have a bias for all players and winning.

I am for Gavin
I am for Austin
I am for Oskar
I am for Woolfolk

what did Pike do last night? Finally (at least for last night) remove Gavin from the rotation. Few weeks ago he removed Woolfolk from the rotation.

I questioned a month ago how playing Gavin when he wasnt ready woyldnt help his development. Fast forward to today most of his teammates arent passing him the ball. Is he in a better spot right now because he has been playing 6-18 minutes? The team certainly is t in a better spot

Pike has said many times he plays the best and is fair to the rest……

 

[brad1218]

Green has an anti high recruit stance. He wants all lower rated guys who are more defensive than offensive players. That's his strategy. It's that simple. I would say that the reason you give Gavin the minutes is because we were never going anywhere this season. My goal now is to go to the final four. We will NEVER go there with Green's strategy. We could go there with guys like Gavin if you can develop them. A team of;

Williams
Harper
Ace
Gavin
Omoruyi
Sommerville

and two or three more talented guys whether they are on the roster now and develop or transfers in can literally win it all. We without the four and five star guys though we will never ever win it all.

 

[kcg88]

Green has an anti high recruit stance. He wants all lower rated guys who are more defensive than offensive players. That's his strategy. It's that simple. I would say that the reason you give Gavin the minutes is because we were never going anywhere this season. My goal now is to go to the final four. We will NEVER go there with Green's strategy. We could go there with guys like Gavin if you can develop them. A team of;

Williams
Harper
Ace
Gavin
Omoruyi
Sommerville

and two or three more talented guys whether they are on the roster now and develop or transfers in can literally win it all. We without the four and five star guys though we will never ever win it all.

FIG has a pro-winning basketball player stance.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Not at all.

I have a bias for all players and winning.

I am for Gavin
I am for Austin
I am for Oskar
I am for Woolfolk

what did Pike do last night? Finally (at least for last night) remove Gavin from the rotation. Few weeks ago he removed Woolfolk from the rotation.

I questioned a month ago how playing Gavin when he wasnt ready woyldnt help his development. Fast forward to today most of his teammates arent passing him the ball. Is he in a better spot right now because he has been playing 6-18 minutes? The team certainly is t in a better spot

Pike has said many times he plays the best and is fair to the rest……

***Have you actually WATCHED us on offense this year? We might be the WORST passing team in the nation or, at the very least, this level of play (in terms of when to pass, when not to pass, and the passes themselves). Stop it.

Put Gavin - THIS YEAR - in Iowa's offense and tell me he's still struggling? BE HONEST.

*** that was a rhetorical question...no need to respond

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I don’t disagree with your general point - but for the avoidance of doubt - your not suggesting that in this particular game, his “reduced” minutes relative to his season average mattered at all in terms of the game outcome - correct?

More specifically - taking out the garbage time minutes - figure there were maybe 6-8 later first half minutes he didn’t get that he normally (in prior games) would have played where Pike played Oskar in his place. Your not suggesting that this particular game would have gone differently if Gavin got those minutes instead - right?

More questioing the season

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

***Have you actually WATCHED us on offense this year? We might be the WORST passing team in the nation or, at the very least, this level of play (in terms of when to pass, when not to pass, and the passes themselves). Stop it.

Put Gavin - THIS YEAR - in Iowa's offense and tell me he's still struggling? BE HONEST.

*** that was a rhetorical question...no need to respond

We are talking about 2023-24
We are talking about Rutgers
I agree with you

BTW. Do you think Woolfolk should be in rotation?
Are you anti Woolfolk?

Now my wife is bordering on Anti Gavin. She is incredulous whenever he comes in to the game.

 

[kcg88]

It was obvious at the Princeton game that Gavin was not ready for this level. It wasn't that he was having a bad game, it's that he was constantly out of position, not in the flow of the game, not moving fluidly at D1 speed. Things have gotten a little better in that regard but there's a reason I was willing to put my nuts on the table regarding my take on him after just one game.

If he's going to turn into a good player it's going to happen in the offseason, not from playing 20 minutes a game this year. I don't really have much of a problem with getting him in and exposing him to Big Ten play but that's mostly because I don't think the alternatives were that much better.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

We are talking about 2023-24
We are talking about Rutgers
I agree with you

BTW. Do you think Woolfolk should be in rotation?
Are you anti Woolfolk?

Now my wife is bordering on Anti Gavin. She is incredulous whenever he comes in to the game.

I think they’re completely different scenarios to be honest and I’ll respond in full, shortly, Just about to meet a client at this minute.