Situationally - yes. I'm not that high on Oscar coming in for Cliff to spell at the 5 such as last night.
Griffiths
- Thread starter zmon61
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Situationally - yes. I'm not that high on Oscar coming in for Cliff to spell at the 5 such as last night.
Usually. I thought the team moved the ball better last night than they had in a long time.
You have better use of your time than responding to me. Offense taken
Having Hyatt in over Gavin is not a great edge as you seem to imply. Hyatt has been streaky from 3 , has disappeared in some of our losses , never jumps for rebounds , so he gets a lot less of them creating offensive outbacks. Subbing Gavin for Hyatt is not a considerable downgrade. Gavin has shown he is doing more but he can do even more than he is showing if he stops thinking he is only a 3 point specialist.
Your obsession with Oskar is kinda ridiculous. How has he done on our losses ? Has he rebounded? Has his man not beaten him for a basket or a rebound. Granted he has been better than anything he has shown for his prior 3 years but it is borderline limited. Unless he is hitting 2 or 3 threes to prevent our droughts , I do not see how impactful he is . Playing him for Cliff yesterday was cringe worthy. Reed could have abused him and hopefully you are not saying he would have handled Payne or Garcia from Minnesota or any of the scoring forwards in theBig 10? He would not. Yes, he gets an A for effort but he gets a D for results. So yes I am subbing Gavin for Oskar almost all the time now.
Austin doesn’t even play the same position nor does he have the same skill set as Gavin , so Austin’s time would come at the expense of Jeremiah , Derek , JMike and Noah.
i agree...definitely wasnt referring to last night as the main culprit
the assist #s were great (which obviously helps when you're shooting 50+%)
Okay so here's how I look at the 2 and PT this season:
Woolf - looked better LAST year IMHO. Don't know if it was the weight loss, or what, but the guy can't rebound, can't battle, can't hold onto the ball, doesn't go after loose balls and looks generally lost out there, which he did not last year. Unfortunately I don't believe that there is a future for Woolf at this level of college hoops. TBH, based on his lack of aggressiveness on the court, not sure if he could be of us on the football field either. He should be "out" of the rotation.
GG - YES, he has struggled this year we all know this, it's undeniable. I just think you went too far saying a "very, very bad" season. Frosh often do struggle and I think, learning how to play D, learning how to battle, this was all very, very new to him and it affected his shooting game once the B1G season began. No doubt. The difference? He picked it up on D becoming much more aggressive out top as well as positioning in the lane. His O is going to come. There is NO doubt about that in my mind. I think - with another 2 years in the weight room - he is going to be "the guy" we expected in his 3rd and 4th seasons. I also believe, as I mentioned earlier, that if he were in Iowa's offense, THIS SEASON, he'd be averaging 10 PPG or so. Anyway, YES, I believe he should still be "in the rotation." I'm just wondering if last night was a "one off" type of thing, or maybe even that ankle he twisted a little on Sunday, at game's end, was the issue? I guess we'll know more next game. Remember....RHJ struggled as such his frosh season.
*** funny re: wife, lol!!!
Goru
Hyatt over Gavin is an edge
Austin is in the gavin pool for minutes
Oskar has played much better Than Gavin
I know what Oskar is as a player
The point that no one wants to touch. Why are players not passing to Gavin? Anyone who dismisses team morale playing Gavin isnt being realistic.
In the work place no one likes when a co worker gets promoted for the wrong reasons
Hyatt over Gavin is an edge
Austin is in the gavin pool for minutes
Oskar has played much better Than Gavin
I know what Oskar is as a player
The point that no one wants to touch. Why are players not passing to Gavin? Anyone who dismisses team morale playing Gavin isnt being realistic.
In the work place no one likes when a co worker gets promoted for the wrong reasons
Hyatt has been one of our three best players this season and Gavin has been by far the worst to play significant minutes.
Oskar has played "much better". Really? Honestly, I think you are the only one who believes that. "much better" puhleaze
once again with this morale bullsh#t. you have ZERO basis for this. We have not heard the slightest hint of any issue. you keep pulling this completely out of your ass.
the whole basis for this is your theory that he doesn't get passed to. first of all, I am not even sure THAT is even true. as others have pointed out that this team generally isnt great at getting the ball to ANY open plater. as others have also pointed out, the staff doesnt do a great job of setting up plays to get open looks for shooters. I think this is just more confirmation bias on your part. youre looking for it. you notice every time Gavin is momentarily open and assume his teammates are purposely not getting him the ball. I bet if you paid attention youd notice other players (Hyatt, Oscar) open in the same way and their teammates dont find them. Lastly, EVEN IF IT IS TRUE that his teammates dont feed him at times that STILL doesnt imply a "morale issue". maybe they smartly realize that getting him the ball in that moment isnt the best thing for that play. YOU are inserting an agenda "morale issue", again, based on NOTHING.
posters like you are so annoying - one trick ponies that just hammer on some random agenda. refuse to accept anything that refutes their theory and pull stuff out of their ass/ twist things to support it.
Hyatt has been a disappointment this year not as much as Gavin but I just was expecting a few more breakout games maybe a few 3-4 games where he hits 3-4 threes and scores 20 points. His rebounding has been atrocious as he doesn’t even jump and now the last 5 games he is right under the basket trying to box out when the ball is 5 feet in front of the rim and the other team has an easy offensive rebound or put back. His defense is serviceable but I would not write home about it. His drives although he has scored in the last couple of games were cringeworthy sure to be a turnover or a terrible shot attempt. I was expecting so much more of our senior who waited his turn behind Ron and now was named a captain and in my eyes falls short every game. AJ Stores from Wisconsin has made a huge difference from the wing. Hyatt has not given us that needed wing player. Now Gavin can do what Andre does , shoot corner threes , hopefully drive more although not enough ,, can improve his handle , his rebounding is no different than Andre’s , so I see Gavin as an equal replacement for Hyatt. Hyatt is only averaging 10.9 points a game. He has come up small in a number of games and has never become the alpha we all hoped.
I do not see what you are seeing with Gavin being frozen out. When Gavin was just standing in the corner and chunking threes and clanking one after another , I as a teammate would not throw him the ball either. He has to move , cut harder , get off the 3 point line and earn the right to get the ball. Our guards are selfish a lot and some of the worst passers and look to score first instead of pass and think in their minds they have a better chance of scoring than Gavin does. Gavin has to prove them wrong by becoming a complete player and not just a 3 point specialist.
Your use of the term best is laughable. What is he best at ? Rebounding ? Dribbling ? Driving ? Shooting ? Scoring 10.9 points a game on a team that struggles to score is not the best of anything but a stat you pull out looking for a leader in a bad sack of players who cannot shoot or score.
You could look at their player efficiency ratings. Gavin has a 5.8. Guys like Fernandes, Mag, and Davis come in at 11, 11.5, and 10.4 respectively. Palms? 11.4. I'd say that's much better. True Shooting %'s? Gavin 39.6% Palm 57.5% Much Better. Somehow Palm's rebounding % is better too, and he's awful at attacking the glass.
I think Gavin has improved throughout the season, but Palm has played MUCH BETTER than him overall.
I do think I've seen signs of Gavin having been frozen out at times, but agree also that he has been pretty poor at moving without the ball until recently.
Prior to the return of J. Williams he was basically the only offensive threat on the floor.
I appreciate your attempt at inserting stats but we are talking a kid averaging 3 pts a game, 33% from 3 (which is supposed to be his thing) and it’s not like Oskar is super valuable in other aspects like d or ball-handling, so it’s just ridiculous to say that Oscar is “much better” than anyone and deserving of more minutes m. I like the kid… but come on. Let’s be real here .
You must be kidding. We had 1 threat before JWill and that was Cliff and our guards tried everything in their power not to pass him the ball or not to set him up properly. Have you seen a difference with how Jeremiah has set up Cliff making him once again our main and only legitimate offensive threat . Our guards , primarily Derek and JMike , but also Noah , did very little to throw fear into opposing game plans. Hyatt was not circled on any of their pregame prep
Oskar is shooting 33% from 3 and 45% overall on only59 overall attempts. So he is 16-26 from 2 point range so 61.5% which skews the number since I guarantee 15 of the 16 were dunks or uncontested layups .
Gavin on much more volume is shooting 32% overall on 53/166 and 25.6 % from 3 on 21/82 , so 38% from 2 . So the volume is not close to do a proper comparison. Clearly , Gavin has totally underachieved any expectations , probably including his own , by shooting 21/82 from 3.
Gavin has 2 rebounds a game to Oskar’s 1.6 and Gavin has 10 blocks to 2 for Oskar so cannot say either has played great defense or rebounded well.
So much better is all relative as it hasn’t made a difference in winning games
Cliff wasn't a threat precisely because we had no one passing him the ball.
Disclaimer 1: I did not read this whole thread.
Disclaimer 2: I've already had my first drink.
How are people still defending GG and asking for more playing time? He has contributed nothing all season. I hope that next year he shoots 40% from 3 and averages 18 a game. But it's not happening this year. He is not currently a B1G level player.
Disclaimer 2: I've already had my first drink.
How are people still defending GG and asking for more playing time? He has contributed nothing all season. I hope that next year he shoots 40% from 3 and averages 18 a game. But it's not happening this year. He is not currently a B1G level player.
Still a threat on scouting reports . Hyatt never was throughout his career and this year where you would expect it and still not a threat in any scouting reports.
Hyatt is having his best season but he's still Hyatt. The problem is he should be a bench rotational player but he's in a bigger role he isn't good enough for
The disconnect between fans and the coaches with Oskar is that the coaches trust him. Oskar is consistently making the right reads on defense and in rotations. He understands the concepts and does what he's supposed to do and is where he's supposed to be. Oskar might not be the biggest strongest faster player but he grew into being a tough player who is willing to put his body on the line and the coaches see and respect it. Being an excellent teammate also helps
The disconnect between fans and the coaches with Oskar is that the coaches trust him. Oskar is consistently making the right reads on defense and in rotations. He understands the concepts and does what he's supposed to do and is where he's supposed to be. Oskar might not be the biggest strongest faster player but he grew into being a tough player who is willing to put his body on the line and the coaches see and respect it. Being an excellent teammate also helps
I hear you, but Hyatt was our best scorer. Again, that’s more a statement about the team which was ~#300 on offense than it is about Hyatt, but it’s still true.
I’m sorry but I can’t buy this argument that it’s a given gavin would be a stud at Iowa or anywhere else. He’s proven nothing at the collegiate level. You can’t assume he would be a success everywhere else based on what he did in high school.
Yea I mentioned it in a couple threads. The most interesting part about it was that he even had Oskar in when Reed was in. It's not like Reed is a smaller undersized 5 that Oskar can more easily match up with
Watch the games, not the box score. Pike has Gavin running the baseline from corner to corner, and on the rare occasions he gets passes, wtf can he do ? If not open for an immediate jumper there’s nothing he can do. D easily shades so he can’t drive with the baseline and sideline boxing him in. Maybe Kobe Bryant could have been good in that restricted corner space, just maybe. But probably not.
This usage along with Cliff camping out down low is to give the guards ample room to drive and shoot. Unbeknownst to most of you, this movement and spacing is by design to maximize ball-dominant guard ‘beat your man’ offense.
It’s the offense and the guards that minimize production from GG, Mag and Hyatt.
GG is very talented but de-emphasized here so far. He’d be a lot more impactful on teams that share the ball and have guards who create good looks for others.
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I can "assume" whatever I'd like. It's an opinion. You don't agree, fine, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'd be wrong. He's averaging 5 PPG in 16.5 minutes on a team that doesn't know how to run an offense. RHJ, for example, averaged 7.8 in 22 minutes as a frosh. My guess is that, well-oiled offense like Iowa's, which is designed to get the ball into shooter's hands outside the arc, he would average 10 PPG in 16-20 minutes. I don't think that's crazy but you don't have to agree. All good.
I watch the games. I agree with you to some extent, but he still doesn’t need to pull the trigger immediately if he gets the ball. He’s taken a lot of contested shots.
Gavin has taken a ton of poor shots. That cannot be debated. I think it's partially due to Pike being such a player's coach that he tells him to just keep shooting and be aggressive and the shots will fall. I think Gavin took it too literally. His shot selection seems to be improving though. He's making strides. The off season will be huge obviously and Dylan and Ace will lead to so many more open looks next year
Flu—That is true. He does take contested shots, bad shots actually. As you know, I thoroughly dislike bad shots, especially from high volume missers like DSelfish.
Yet I will adapt the Rodney Dangerfield joke, if not bad shots he’d get no shots at all. Since he rarely gets passed to, I can understand him taking a bad shot here and there, trying too hard. Expectations through the roof and he wants to meet them.
The point is, the offense is designed for our guards to beat defenders in open space and that means GG is essentially told to stay out of the way..
GG is an afterthought. He’d produce in a real team offense. Stats don’t tell the story.
Yet I will adapt the Rodney Dangerfield joke, if not bad shots he’d get no shots at all. Since he rarely gets passed to, I can understand him taking a bad shot here and there, trying too hard. Expectations through the roof and he wants to meet them.
The point is, the offense is designed for our guards to beat defenders in open space and that means GG is essentially told to stay out of the way..
GG is an afterthought. He’d produce in a real team offense. Stats don’t tell the story.
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I definitely agree with this. I think Pike still believes in Gavin’s ability.
I myself didn't say anything about deserving more minutes, just that to this point, he's been better (maybe more valuable is right word) than Gavin.
Pike probably still believes in Souf Mensah. His greatest strength and greatest weakness. He loves his players and his players love him bc of it
All true. Gavin has played alot more minutes as well, so I'd expect his per games #'s to be higher.
I think the dumb stat I brought up a week or so ago, points + rebounds+assists+steals+blocks minus missed fg, missed ft, and turnovers is a fun indicator. Oskar has a higher score here than Gavin despite playing so much less.
Let's just say Oskar has more than served his intended role, while Gavin hasn't, at least most people.
