Hobbs gets it when he talks about Basketball

[bac2therac]

Unfortunately.....this is the reality of major prospects in college football and basketball recruiting.....facilities are the biggest excuse because the kids that are coming to play here, may not ever take advantage of it for the first half of their careers, even if ground was broken in the spring.

The bottom line is that you need to recruit and target kids and then they need to be coached up and it starts with the basics....you can turn up the intensity on fundamentals because a bill gets passed for a recruiting facility. And just because Danny Hurley overplayed his hand and was extremely greedy (you don't need to cycle through 3 full recruiting classes or 7 years to rebuild anything), doesn't mean that is the task at hand.

This is a halfway built program and has pieces that can play....I know it's hard to believe for some, but if Mike Coburn and James Beatty can win 15 games as your starting backcourt, with Gil Biruta at the 5, then I'd like to think even this roster down to 8 players can get to 11 or 12 wins. We are nowhere near that competitive and Monmouth didn't even play well and won yesterday.

Hobbs isn't going to waive a magic wand.....the bill gets passed in a few months and then the funds get allocated and it helps the process move forward for all RU athletics, not just hoops....we have tons of gaps all over the place that only revenue and TV revenue funds and develops....People believe the B1G schools have tons of donors writing checks for everything, well not really true. Revenue from TV and the league starts and ends everything. Just be glad RU is in the league and will launch itself forward in the next 3 to 5 years on the court. One decent hire and RU is off to the races to becoming mediocre and then decent in a couple of years. It doesn't take 7 or 6 or even 5 years....it takes a decent hard working staff 2 to 3 years to get tangible results and a good coach gets results in Year 1 and more reasonable wins in Year 2. Anything less is not realistic, RU at a minimum should be .500 every year.

bingo....Rices first year was not talented at all. In and out Miller and a very good Mitchell but that's it...they fought hard from game 1..meanwhile its year 3 here and Eddie failed with the previous players and with talent similar to Rices first year since the addition of Sanders we have seen mediocre on our best days

too many excuses made and some really absurd suggestions like it takes 10 years...it didn't even take Schiano 10 years

 

[cyrock3]

and your basis for thinking that is what..please explain with facts

Eddie was a successful NBA coach (the highest echelon in basketball). He's going to be a successful college coach.

He has a track record of success.

sorry this is comical and delusion...it does not take 10 years to build a program...stop embarrassing yourself

It takes a long time to bring back a program like ours especially when you don't have the facilities to compete. You need to build a play style, and then you need to incrementally build talent on that. It's going to take 7 years from now for us to make the NCAAs. If we stay on this path, we will make it. If we do not, we won't.

 

[Section114]

What I take from what Hobbs' said: Jordan is excused for poor recruiting and results for now
and will be given a chance to prove himself next season.
The facilities will be used as an excuse for bringing back Eddie and not the money buying out the last two years of Jordan's contract will cost. Which to me is a major reason why Eddie will return next season and be given a chance to show he can make RU MBB into a good program, after inheriting the mess Rice left.
Don't know if he can or not, but think he'll be getting one more year to show he can.

Hobbs is setting up for this.....I believe. We can give EJ 20 more years- he is NOT the right coach for Rutgers- or probably any college team for that matter.

 

[Section114]

Eddie was a successful NBA coach (the highest echelon in basketball). He's going to be a successful college coach.

He has a track record of success. He really wasn't all that successful at the NBA level



It takes a long time to bring back a program like ours especially when you don't have the facilities to compete. You need to build a play style, and then you need to incrementally build talent on that. It's going to take 7 years from now for us to make the NCAAs. If we stay on this path, we will make it. If we do not, we won't.

7 years from NOW? You have to be kidding me. Eddie is a terrible coach...TERRRRRRRRRIBLE!

 

[cyrock3]

7 years from NOW? You have to be kidding me. Eddie is a terrible coach...TERRRRRRRRRIBLE!

Terrible coaches don't make playoff runs in the NBA.

 

[ruman]

Terrible coaches don't make playoff runs in the NBA.

Head coaching record[edit]
NBA[edit]
Legend
Regular season G Games coached W Games won L Games lost W–L % Win-loss %
Post season PG Playoff games PW Playoff wins PL Playoff losses PW–L % Playoff win-loss %
[hide]Team Year G W L W–L% Finish PG PW PL PW–L% Result
Sacramento 1996–97 15 6 9 .400 6th in Pacific — — — — Missed Playoffs
Sacramento 1997–98 82 27 55 .329 5th in Pacific — — — — Missed Playoffs
Washington 2003–04 82 25 57 .305 6th in Atlantic — — — — Missed Playoffs
Washington 2004–05 82 45 37 .549 2nd in Southeast 10 4 6 .400 Lost in Conf. Semifinals
Washington 2005–06 82 42 40 .512 2nd in Southeast 6 2 4 .333 Lost in First Round
Washington 2006–07 82 41 41 .500 2nd in Southeast 4 0 4 .000 Lost in First Round
Washington 2007–08 82 43 39 .524 2nd in Southeast 6 2 4 .333 Lost in First Round
Washington 2008–09 11 1 10 .091 (fired) — — — — —
Philadelphia 2009–10 82 27 55 .329 4th in Atlantic — — — — Missed Playoffs
Career 600 257 343 .428 26 8 18 .308

I'm not sure one playoff series win in 10 seasons qualifies as making runs in the playoffs.

 

[RutgHoops]

Head coaching record[edit]
NBA[edit]
Legend
Regular season G Games coached W Games won L Games lost W–L % Win-loss %
Post season PG Playoff games PW Playoff wins PL Playoff losses PW–L % Playoff win-loss %
[hide]Team Year G W L W–L% Finish PG PW PL PW–L% Result
Sacramento 1996–97 15 6 9 .400 6th in Pacific — — — — Missed Playoffs
Sacramento 1997–98 82 27 55 .329 5th in Pacific — — — — Missed Playoffs
Washington 2003–04 82 25 57 .305 6th in Atlantic — — — — Missed Playoffs
Washington 2004–05 82 45 37 .549 2nd in Southeast 10 4 6 .400 Lost in Conf. Semifinals
Washington 2005–06 82 42 40 .512 2nd in Southeast 6 2 4 .333 Lost in First Round
Washington 2006–07 82 41 41 .500 2nd in Southeast 4 0 4 .000 Lost in First Round
Washington 2007–08 82 43 39 .524 2nd in Southeast 6 2 4 .333 Lost in First Round
Washington 2008–09 11 1 10 .091 (fired) — — — — —
Philadelphia 2009–10 82 27 55 .329 4th in Atlantic — — — — Missed Playoffs
Career 600 257 343 .428 26 8 18 .308

He made the playoffs four times with the Wizards (never had been done before) and his best player was Gilbert Arenas. You don't think that is a good coaching job? Are you serious?

 

[ruman]

He made the playoffs four times with the Wizards (never had been done before) and his best player was Gilbert Arenas. You don't think that is a good coaching job? Are you serious?

.428 winning percentage - one NBA playoff series win - 10 seasons -

He's not Red Auerbach

And my problem is that a 20 year NBA lifer, who hadnt been in college since leaving RU in like 1990, has no business at Rutgers as head coach

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

sorry this is comical and delusion...it does not take 10 years to build a program...stop embarrassing yourself

Correct....in Rutgers case....it takes 25 years.

 

[Caliknight]

Eddie was a mediocre pro coach. The problem is, he is a horrible college coach. What makes you mediocre on the pros doesn't translate to college.

You need to be:

1) Great recruiter -he isn't
2) Have a system that is coached to and recruited to -he doesn't
3) Be very hard working and detail oriented. Can't comment on his work ethic but he is not detail oriented

 

[bac2therac]

Newsflash..this is college not the NBA

 

[RUonBrain]

Choppin Ohio
Seriously

Have you ever met Eddie?
Do you know him personally?

(Same question for anyone else defending him so staunchly)

And hypothetically, if Eddie wins our 2 remaining OOC games and goes 0-fer in B1G, you still want him back next year?

Let's say he then HYPOTHETICALLY has the EXACT same record next season.
You have Eddie back in 2018, no questions asked?

My point - is there ANY scenario, hypothetical as it may be, where you don't want Eddie back on 2016, or 2017, or 2018?

 

[RUJMM78]

You need to have plans for anything to happen...let's keep in mind talk is talk. This talk is no different than talk we have heard before.

All of us basketball fans are or should be from Missouri.

I share your viewpoint because the same discussion has been going on for at least decade with nothing positive occurring.The status quo won't help Rutgers with recruiting ,fund raising or ticket sales.The easy part is to have design renderings but the hard part is to get shovels in the ground.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Choppin Ohio
Seriously

Have you ever met Eddie?
Do you know him personally?

(Same question for anyone else defending him so staunchly)

And hypothetically, if Eddie wins our 2 remaining OOC games and goes 0-fer in B1G, you still want him back next year?

Let's say he then HYPOTHETICALLY has the EXACT same record next season.
You have Eddie back in 2018, no questions asked?

My point - is there ANY scenario, hypothetical as it may be, where you don't want Eddie back on 2016, or 2017, or 2018?

Don't know Jordan at all. My views are based on viewing the state of the Rutgers program from a historical view point, facilities view point and the aftermath of the scandal.

I don't see any coach in America turning around this program that has been sub-.500 for 25 years without a major statement from the athletic department that they are serious about basketball. That means investments that will allow the coach to overcome the many obstacles to success. When you have been down for 25 years....whiz bang facilities are needed to get "more" recruits interested and excited about the prospect of coming to play for Rutgers....that, or bags of money.

Regarding the product on the court....of course I'm not happy, but, I see the problem being more about getting better players (see above). Good players play good defense, good shooters shoot well. If someone shows me evidence or it becomes apparent that Jordan is NOT teaching the right things to his players....he should go. I do not think there is always a direct correlation between teaching and results on the court.......they just appear limited by ability(shooting), athleticism, lateral quickness and natural instincts.

I can't think of one coach in college basketball ever fired when they had talented players to coach and a full roster to use in a game, unless it was related to a scandal of some kind. To think that someone like Danny Hurley or anyone else could come in and start recruiting great players is silly....considering the state of this program.

About Jordan's future, he was a stop gap. At 62, he is not a long term solution. At the end of 5 years when Jordan will be about 65, a transition should be the plan and Jordan will probably retire. If the program has better players and knocking on the door, maybe he gets more time with a assistant coach in waiting type scenario. Or, bring in the next coach as a young guy with lots of local ties.

Hopefully, we will have a completed state of the art practice facility and the next coach will take off from there.....without many recruiting obstacles. The 25 year history will still be an issue.

Sorry for any tyos, I use a MS touch screen tablet.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Newsflash..this is college not the NBA

Might as well hire John Tortorella or Glen Sather to coach Rutgers basketball. I think a CEO of a publicly traded company makes a better college coach than a NBA head coach.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Matt Doherty Keno Davis Russ Pennell Steve Fisher Steve Lavin Trent Johnson

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Might as well hire John Tortorella or Glen Sather to coach Rutgers basketball. I think a CEO of a publicly traded company makes a better college coach than a NBA head coach.

FIG.....who do you think is the greatest defensive coach ever? To me, it's Larry Brown. Who's yours?

To those on the board, if I ever talked to Eddie Jordan, I would say this, " I know Larry Brown, Larry Brown is a friend of mine, Eddie Jordan, you're no Larry Brown".

maybe he can attend one of his coaching clinics....lol

 

[ruman]

Don't know Jordan at all. My views are based on viewing the state of the Rutgers program from a historical view point, facilities view point and the aftermath of the scandal.

About Jordan's future, he was a stop gap. At 62, he is not a long term solution. At the end of 5 years when Jordan will be about 65, a transition should be the plan and Jordan will probably retire
.

That's why you have to move past him as your coach. In year 3 of a 5 year contract, you have to make decisions about a coaches future. Many coaches get extensions after year 3. Jordan will not be getting an extension. Not after this years record. And without an extension, He will never be able to recruit any better than he is doing now.

This is why I hope we look to start over after the season, with Hobbs in charge of the new direction.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

That's why you have to move past him as your coach. In year 3 of a 5 year contract, you have to make decisions about a coaches future. Many coaches get extensions after year 3. Jordan will not be getting an extension. Not after this years record. And without an extension, He will never be able to recruit any better than he is doing now.

This is why I hope we look to start over after the season, with Hobbs in charge of the new direction.

Ruman, I hoped you would at least comment on some of my other points....do you agree with any of them ??

 

[ruman]

Ruman, I hoped you would at least comment on some of my other points....do you agree with any of them ??

The only thing I agree with is that I understand how bad the program was hurt after Mike Rice, and that Eddie Jordan was an Ok choice to be coach for a couple of years to settle things down. But we are past that period. Jordan has no business running Rutgers basketball in 2015. I reject the notion that a different coach (not a big name) would do no better here. And I see so many posts saying that it doesn't matter who's coach. That's not how college basketball works.

My problem is that thinking things will change with EJ as coach is fantasy. And personally I have no interest in waiting another year or two to begin the hard work of turning things around. And that's all we will be doing if we don't change coaches.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

The only thing I agree with is that I understand how bad the program was hurt after Mike Rice, and that Eddie Jordan was an Ok choice to be coach for a couple of years to settle things down. But we are past that period. Jordan has no business running Rutgers basketball in 2015. I reject the notion that a different coach (not a big name) would do no better here. And I see so many posts saying that it doesn't matter who's coach. That's not how college basketball works.

My problem is that thinking things will change with EJ as coach is fantasy. And personally I have no interest in waiting another year or two to begin the hard work of turning things around. And that's all we will be doing if we don't change coaches.

Unless we are Nostradamus and can predict the future, no one knows how things can change, thinking that you so know is the real fantasy. I had high hopes for Mike Rice, but, after one decent recruiting class...... recruiting was Horrible under Rice, worse than it is today. Do you remember the Craig Brown and Vincent Garrett classes? Mike Poole ? He missed on every big recruit he tried to get and this was Pre-Scandal. Lack of facilities ? Do you have selective memory when it comes to recruiting? Not to slam former players, but, I think it's safe to say that he recruited 3 really good players in Mack, Jack and Carter. Biruta was a Fred Hill recruit.

For the 6th time in 20 years we should change coaches looking for that silver bullet? So, when Danny Hurley can't do it, you make change No. 7 ? When do you address the root cause and give a coach a fighting chance and level the playing field in recruiting? Whomever that coach may be?

In terms of Jordan....do you realize he has two of the highest rated recruits in recent memory....Sanders for a freshmen recruit and Freeman for a JUCO recruit ???

 

[RUonBrain]

If Eddie is not the guy, what is the point of keeping him another season?
Seriously. What has he done to earn another year?
And if he is not the long term solution, why WASTE another year?

Sure, new facilities will help the men's basketball coach at RUTGERS recruit at a higher level.

But that will take time to fundraise, start, and complete construction.

Hopefully Hobbs gets all that started sooner than later.

But if we hire a better "coach" (i.e., someone who can "coach 'em up"), we will be ahead of the game once facilities starts to come into play.

And please don't say no one can recruit without better facilities, or a new coach cannot possibly recruit better than JORDAN and his staff.

If you tell me that, then it doesn't matter who is recruiting for us. The recruiting outcome is solely dictated by the state of our facilities.

That is hogwash.

If that were true, we could hire Choppin Ohio to be our next coach. It wouldn't matter because he can do no worse or better than Eddie considering our "facilities."

Do you believe that?

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

If Eddie is not the guy, what is the point of keeping him another season?
Seriously. What has he done to earn another year?
And if he is not the long term solution, why WASTE another year?

Sure, new facilities will help the men's basketball coach at RUTGERS recruit at a higher level.

But that will take time to fundraise, start, and complete construction.

Hopefully Hobbs gets all that started sooner than later.

But if we hire a better "coach" (i.e., someone who can "coach 'em up), we will be ahead of the game once facilities starts to come into play.

And please don't say no one can recruit without better facilities, or a new cosch cannot possible recruit better than JORDAN and his staff.

If you tell me that, than it doesn't matter who is recruiting for us. The recruiting outcome is solely dictated by the state of our facilities.

That is hogwash.
If that is true, we could hire Choppin Ohio to be our next coach. It wouldn't matter because he can do no worse or better than Eddie considering our "facilities."

Do you believe that?

OKAY...in 20 years who has recruited good players ? I added this after you read my last comment


In terms of Jordan....do you realize he has two of the highest rated recruits in recent memory....Sanders for a freshmen recruit and Freeman for a JUCO recruit ???

Show me that Jordan is not teaching the right things, I'll listen. Tell me you know someone at practice that can confirm that Jordan is not teaching fundamentals and defense. The product on the court does not mean things are not being taught......to me, it's more likely that the players are not good enough(YET) to get it done due to their limitations and /or experience.....we'll just have to disagree.

Typically, the best teams have the best players.....so, it goes back to recruiting and time is needed to recruit better players. There are few exceptions in college basketball.

 

[RutgHoops]

Choppin Ohio
Seriously

Have you ever met Eddie?
Do you know him personally?

(Same question for anyone else defending him so staunchly)

And hypothetically, if Eddie wins our 2 remaining OOC games and goes 0-fer in B1G, you still want him back next year?

Let's say he then HYPOTHETICALLY has the EXACT same record next season.
You have Eddie back in 2018, no questions asked?

My point - is there ANY scenario, hypothetical as it may be, where you don't want Eddie back on 2016, or 2017, or 2018?

(IMO) For Rutgers to win we have to have a team largely made up of Upperclassmen who were recruited together, have grown together and went thru the wars together. I see fans all the time lamenting these mid majors who rise up and win games. Well, it should not be surprising that these teams are largely veteran teams made up of Upperclassmen. Monmouth started 1 Senior, 3 Juniors, 1 RsFr. Their bench was 1 Senior, 2 Junior, 1 Soph, 1 Fr. They played 7 Upperclassman. We had two Upperclassman play. It should be no surprise that this veteran group of Monmouth players have never made the NIT and have never finished better than 3rd in their league. When Robinson's class (Juniors) were frosh they went 11-21 in the MAAC. Now they are beating UCLA and Notre Dame.

The last HC to see his first recruiting class graduate was Gary Waters. Hill's first class were Juniors when he got fired. Rice's first class were Sophomores. At some point Rutgers needs to bite the bullet and let an HC stick around for a while.

History is the best predictor of future events. If Eddie is fired 70% of the kids he recruited transfer leaving the cupboard bare. Then a new HC starts, inevitably loses much more than he wins with teams made up of mainly frosh and sophs and then we call for his head. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If/when Jordan is done I think it is best to have an empty cupboard.

Your thesis only works if players like Foreman, Doorson, Diallo, Goode, Williams, Sanders, and Laurent are pieces. I desperately need to see something from someone on this list not named Williams or Sanders. I am not sure what type of players they are going to be, but I am pretty sure they need to be pushed more than they are now.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

In terms of Jordan....do you realize he has two of the highest rated recruits in recent memory....Sanders for a freshmen recruit and Freeman for a JUCO recruit ???

Highest rated recruits in recent memories were Quincy Douby and Hamady. Grades on the exam are more important than grades on a practice test.

 

[bac2therac]

Freeman is gone next year so remove him from any equation of getting above 500 because he wont be a part of it.

so where are the players that will be awesome as seniors because that would be the earliest chance that RU would contend for the NCAA tourney...you are then relying on the class of Laurent, Diallo, Sanders, Goode plus unknown recruits which by the way we have none signed for next year

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Highest rated recruits in recent memories were Quincy Douby and Hamady. Grades on the exam are more important than grades on a practice test.

Not to split hairs, but, I did say "two of" the highest rated. My point was this, even coming off the Rice scandal the staff snagged two of the highest rated recruits in recent memory and that's with the program was at its lowest.

If my memory serves me, the others were:

Corey Chandler.....kicked off team
Mike Rosario......transfer
Gregory Ech.......transfer
Kadeem Jack
Dane Miller
Jerome Seagers......head case and transfer and over-rated

AND, those great Mike Rice recruits, Craig Brown and Vincent Garrett.

Not a long list of great players recruited over 20 years....but, that all changes with next guy, or maybe the next guy after that. That will take us to about. 7 coaches over 25 years.

Invest in facilities and give the coach a level playing field.

 

[Local Shill]

Not to split hairs, but, I did say "two of" the highest rated. My point was this, even coming off the Rice scandal the staff snagged two of the highest rated recruits in recent memory and that's with the program was at its lowest.

If my memory serves me, the others were:

Corey Chandler.....kicked off team
Mike Rosario......transfer
Gregory Ech.......transfer
Kadeem Jack
Dane Miller
Jerome Seagers......head case and transfer and over-rated

AND, those great Mike Rice recruits, Craig Brown and Vincent Garrett.

Not a long list of great players recruited over 20 years....but, that all changes with next guy, or maybe the next guy after that. That will take us to about. 7 coaches over 25 years.

Invest in facilities and give the coach a level playing field.

Craig was Eddie's recruit.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I don't really care what a recruit is rated. i don't care what other offers a person had. I only care what he ultimately does for the program.

We use all that stuff to analyze before a person comes. The maximizing stars is what has us in this mess to begin with.

I do understand and appreciate your argument, but it doesn't resonate with me.

Vince Garrett and Robert Lumpkin I get it and agree. Mike Rice had a 1 hit wonder class. I don't know for sure, but i am guessing his rep killed his recruiting.

 

[78CollegeAve]

Jordan recruiting Sanders and Freeman is the equivalent of Rutgers beating Wisconsin. I'd be more interested in discussing another year if you could point out the 3 or 4 kids who have improved while playing for the staff. Injuries or not, does anyone believe that Williams and Foreman are better as sophs? Is Daniels a more controlled and poised player in Year 2? And Greg Lewis is in his third year with EJ and ... and ...?

If the staff could develop kids and run a coherent system, then maybe building a roster by stealing kids from Marist, UNC-Wilmington and Sacred Heart, taking academic risks and, yes, signing a couple of B1G players every few years could get RU to .500 in the OOC and maybe a few wins in the B1G. But there's plenty of evidence that the staff just can't coach up anyone.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Craig was Eddie's recruit.

Don't think so....Rice recruit...Jordan retained him when he came in late when and had to scramble to fill out the roster decimated by the Rice scandal....that was a 3 short years ago.

 

[RutgHoops]

If/when Jordan is done I think it is best to have an empty cupboard.

Your thesis only works if players like Foreman, Doorson, Diallo, Goode, Williams, Sanders, and Laurent are pieces. I desperately need to see something from someone on this list not named Williams or Sanders. I am not sure what type of players they are going to be, but I am pretty sure they need to be pushed more than they are now.

Disagree on the empty cupboard. We have now done 10 years of "empty cupboard". It stinks. You can't dig out of the hole fast enough at Rutgers, although Rice was close. It takes five years and four full classes (imo) to build a roster at a school that doesn't recruit itself starting with an empty cupboard.

Haven't seen nearly enough to determine who are pieces are who aren't. The Monmouth team that has beaten UCLA and Notre Dame were 11-21 as frosh in the MAAC. Did Justin Robinson looked like a "piece" as a frosh when he shot 37% from the floor while averaging 7 ppg in the MAAC? Hamady averaged 2.7 ppg/2.9rpg as a frosh. Did he look like a "piece" as a frosh? For all his flaws Kadeem was a decent player. He averaged 1.2ppg/1,6rpg as a frosh. Pre injury Diallo was averring 3.8ppg/3.9rpg as an RFr. Doorson averaged 1.5ppg/2.2rpg as a frosh.

Not saying you are wrong. I see where you and others are coming from. My only opinion is it is way too early to draw final conclusions on seven kids who have played between 11 and 40 college games.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Jordan recruiting Sanders and Freeman is the equivalent of Rutgers beating Wisconsin

I have seen these type of posts a few other times. Ridiculous.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

...which is why i want to see it to have confidence. Williams and Sanders are in.

As you know my biggest concern is more effort/passion and less ability.

Maybe i should watch NBA basketball and reset expectations on effort. For some weird reason i watched a bit (5 minutes) of ORL-NYK and was mortified with the effort NYK play. I had to turn it off and put on the NW-Sacred Heart game.

 

[RutgHoops]

Jordan recruiting Sanders and Freeman is the equivalent of Rutgers beating Wisconsin. I'd be more interested in discussing another year if you could point out the 3 or 4 kids who have improved while playing for the staff. Injuries or not, does anyone believe that Williams and Foreman are better as sophs? Is Daniels a more controlled and poised player in Year 2? And Greg Lewis is in his third year with EJ and ... and ...?

I see improvement for sure.

As a frosh Williams averaged 6.3ppg and shot 32% from the floor. As a Soph he is averaging 12ppg and shooting 38.5% from the floor.

As a frosh Foreman averaged 3.8 ppg/2.7rpg and shot 44% from the floor. This season: 8.3ppg/6.9rpg and shooting 47% from the floor.

Bishop's points are up a bit but to me more importantly he has 27 assists and 25 turnovers. Last season he had 47 assists and 71 turnovers.

Lewis I can't explain. Just don't understand it.

Clearly the harder part of our schedule is upcoming and comparing stats thus far to full year stats from last season is a bit disingenuous, but I clearly see improvement from our Sophs and while still frustrating at times I do think Bishop has been better. Surprised others don't see it that way.

 

[RutgHoops]

...which is why i want to see it to have confidence. Williams and Sanders are in.

As you know my biggest concern is more effort/passion and less ability.

Maybe i should watch NBA basketball and reset expectations on effort. For some weird reason i watched a bit (5 minutes) of ORL-NYK and was mortified with the effort NYK play. I had to turn it off and put on the NW-Sacred Heart game.

Foreman plays hard. Really hard. Still not a great or even good finisher, but rarely do I see lack of effort from him. He was flying around against Monmouth and on several occasions was the last guy left as back side help. Think he had two hard fouls at the rim protecting RU guys who got beat. Forget the jump in points, he is grabbing almost 7 rebounds a game. Thats effort (imo).

Regardless of his ranking DJ was an athletic kid who was a project coming out of HS. I have been impressed with his frosh to soph jump. And there is still (imo) a lot of development left for the kid.

 

[MidwestKnights]

sorry this is comical and delusion...it does not take 10 years to build a program...stop embarrassing yourself

It does if you keep cycling through coaches every 3-4 years.

6 coaches in 25 years...think about that.

What does that say to potential coaches along with our state of the art facility from 1976?

Let a great alum like Eddie steward the program while we get our act together.

 

[MidwestKnights]

Don't know Jordan at all. My views are based on viewing the state of the Rutgers program from a historical view point, facilities view point and the aftermath of the scandal.

I don't see any coach in America turning around this program that has been sub-.500 for 25 years without a major statement from the athletic department that they are serious about basketball. That means investments that will allow the coach to overcome the many obstacles to success. When you have been down for 25 years....whiz bang facilities are needed to get "more" recruits interested and excited about the prospect of coming to play for Rutgers....that, or bags of money.

Regarding the product on the court....of course I'm not happy, but, I see the problem being more about getting better players (see above). Good players play good defense, good shooters shoot well. If someone shows me evidence or it becomes apparent that Jordan is NOT teaching the right things to his players....he should go. I do not think there is always a direct correlation between teaching and results on the court.......they just appear limited by ability(shooting), athleticism, lateral quickness and natural instincts.

I can't think of one coach in college basketball ever fired when they had talented players to coach and a full roster to use in a game, unless it was related to a scandal of some kind. To think that someone like Danny Hurley or anyone else could come in and start recruiting great players is silly....considering the state of this program.

About Jordan's future, he was a stop gap. At 62, he is not a long term solution. At the end of 5 years when Jordan will be about 65, a transition should be the plan and Jordan will probably retire. If the program has better players and knocking on the door, maybe he gets more time with a assistant coach in waiting type scenario. Or, bring in the next coach as a young guy with lots of local ties.

Hopefully, we will have a completed state of the art practice facility and the next coach will take off from there.....without many recruiting obstacles. The 25 year history will still be an issue.

Sorry for any tyos, I use a MS touch screen tablet.

This.

This is exactly what I thought the plan for the EJ hire was from the beginning. Eddie provides stability and starts rebuilding the program while RU gets it's ducks in a row.

I don't see any reason to change that for at least another year.

 

[Caliknight]

Don't know Jordan at all. My views are based on viewing the state of the Rutgers program from a historical view point, facilities view point and the aftermath of the scandal.

I don't see any coach in America turning around this program that has been sub-.500 for 25 years without a major statement from the athletic department that they are serious about basketball. That means investments that will allow the coach to overcome the many obstacles to success. When you have been down for 25 years....whiz bang facilities are needed to get "more" recruits interested and excited about the prospect of coming to play for Rutgers....that, or bags of money.

Regarding the product on the court....of course I'm not happy, but, I see the problem being more about getting better players (see above). Good players play good defense, good shooters shoot well. If someone shows me evidence or it becomes apparent that Jordan is NOT teaching the right things to his players....he should go. I do not think there is always a direct correlation between teaching and results on the court.......they just appear limited by ability(shooting), athleticism, lateral quickness and natural instincts.

I can't think of one coach in college basketball ever fired when they had talented players to coach and a full roster to use in a game, unless it was related to a scandal of some kind. To think that someone like Danny Hurley or anyone else could come in and start recruiting great players is silly....considering the state of this program.

About Jordan's future, he was a stop gap. At 62, he is not a long term solution. At the end of 5 years when Jordan will be about 65, a transition should be the plan and Jordan will probably retire. If the program has better players and knocking on the door, maybe he gets more time with a assistant coach in waiting type scenario. Or, bring in the next coach as a young guy with lots of local ties.

Hopefully, we will have a completed state of the art practice facility and the next coach will take off from there.....without many recruiting obstacles. The 25 year history will still be an issue.

Sorry for any tyos, I use a MS touch screen tablet.

Not working on rebounding "because that isn't what I do" is clear evidence not teaching the right things.