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coaches are fired because of their performances, that's simple to understand

bac...your motive has been obvious for a long time. You are one that said Jordan should have be let go after year 2 and that the good news is, and I quote, "Danny Hurley may still be available". You have been on a tirade for a long time. My guess is you would have blasted any coach not named Hurley.

Yes, coaches are fired due to the performance of the team, but, you have to interject a sense of reality and that is why I like Hobbs. His first statement regarding basketball was very telling and gives you a sense of what he thinks is the core problem with Rutgers Basketball. " For men's basketball, in particular, the lack of a practice facility is an albatross on the recruiting trail" He understands that the first issue regarding on court performance is getting better players...he pinpointed facilities as a big problem. Get better players and the product on the court improves. That's been my position from day 1 and it was never change.

I mentioned in another thread, Rutgers Basketball is like Yahoo. Keep bringing in new CEO's every 3-4 years without addressing the core problems and hoping for a miracle.
 
When you make a bad hire, not correcting the mistake is even worse.
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Taken from a 2010 article prior to hiring Mike Rice.

"I think it’s important that it’s someone young on the way up, that they not fall victim to just hiring a name," Hurley said, repeating recent advice he gave to Seton Hall (Hobbs), which hired Iona’s Kevin Willard. "If Seton Hall needs work, then Rutgers needs even more work. If you get an older guy now, it’s a lot of work, being out there and being active in the recruiting game."

The obvious question is: who? Perhaps former Nets’ coach Lawrence Frank could enter the mix, with sources at Rutgers confirming interest from their side. Frank didn’t return a phone call, and like Van Gundy, could be done with the college game despite having begun his career at Indiana.

According to another source familiar with the athletic department, fired 76ers coach Eddie Jordan reached out to Rutgers to express his interest. But Jordan hasn’t had to recruit a player in more than 20 years, and even though he played on Rutgers’ 1976 Final Four team and was on the same Wenzel staff as Van Gundy, would his name even resonate with today’s players?

"I’m 62, that’s why I know Eddie," Hurley said. "High school kids are not historians."

"I have nothing but the highest regard for Eddie as a guy and what he accomplished as a pro coach, but I’d be surprised if he’s interested," Van Gundy said. "It’s a totally different game."
 
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Will your comments get Danny Hurley hired? He had his chance and understood this was a 7 year build.
Interesting thread. As I read, I have to admit that I don't really see it the way you do, Ohio, but I do think you hit on a very good point here.

I also think Danny Hurley is a very good basketball coach and could succeed at Rutgers. I feel very confident in that (however much I might not want to see that). But Danny did say this; he called it a seven-year rebuild, and maybe it is. In fact, the hill might be even steeper to climb now than when he said this a few seasons ago.

So, if you (bac, and whomever else) support someone like Danny Hurley for this job, but he still maintains it is a seven-year rebuild, do you still want him and support that idea? I'm not sure where I'd go with it. I mean, a guy can come and say, "we'll have this turned around by year three," and that obviously sounds more appealing. But do you believe that enough to roll the dice? Or do you simply accept the bleak (but maybe realistic) scenario presented by Hurley and start the clock ticking toward year seven ... which is a long time away? The lure there is that he does have the credibility to make me believe that even if it takes that long, he could get it done. I actually think he could do it in five, but I get that he wants the extra security.

I'm just curious what Hurley proponents think...
 
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The damn problem is we have such a fracked up injury situation it is darn near impossible to determine where this team would be otherwise...going in the right direct (perhaps SLOWLY) but going in the right direction?

There are some things that make ME feel like it wouldn't have mattered. Need a jump up not a slow crawl upwards. Just like the FB team. Losing is one thing. Looking clueless is another.

Frustration of just another wasted year and waiting.
 
Interesting thread. As I read, I have to admit that I don't really see it the way you do, Ohio, but I do think you hit on a very good point here.

I also think Danny Hurley is a very good basketball coach and could succeed at Rutgers. I feel very confident in that (however much I might not want to see that). But Danny did say this; he called it a seven-year rebuild, and maybe it is. In fact, the hill might be even steeper to climb now than when he said this a few seasons ago.

So, if you (bac, and whomever else) support someone like Danny Hurley for this job, but he still maintains it is a seven-year rebuild, do you still want him and support that idea? I'm not sure where I'd go with it. I mean, a guy can come and say, "we'll have this turned around by year three," and that obviously sounds more appealing. But do you believe that enough to roll the dice? Or do you simply accept the bleak (but maybe realistic) scenario presented by Hurley and start the clock ticking toward year seven ... which is a long time away? The lure there is that he does have the credibility to make me believe that even if it takes that long, he could get it done. I actually think he could do it in five, but I get that he wants the extra security.

I'm just curious what Hurley proponents think...


it doesn't necessarily have to be Hurley. I use him the most as an example because he is easily the most identifiable. Choppin guy is bizarre. There is no allegiance to Hurley, no agenda. Hobbs will and should have others on his list...truth be told its not going to be a big list.

I see Hobbs will have to make a power ala Barchi the same way Hobbs himself was hired. He is going to have to do this quickly and swiftly but taking advice from people who know the lay of the land. Its got to be bold and its got to be a move that goes against what traditionally RU has done ala what they did with football

I am not against a 7 year plan IF this is a whole big vision tied in with facilities where everyone is on board and RU makes it clearly publically that there have been missteps in the past but this time they really are committed and this practice facility plus the new hiring shows that. Evidence of commitment by increasing funding across the board in hoops... increasing head coaching salary, increasing assistant salary, increasing recruiting funding, increasing support staff, paying attention to the concerns of the last existing loyal diehard Rutgers basketball fans. Introducing of a fundraising campaign specifically geared toward the practice facility which will include some other sports. Hobbs will have to make a splash that we truly will fix this. Not just the usual words but action...IF IF IF all this stuff is done in one big package where you start to also do greater outreach to NJ high schools and power brokers to fix this mess...I have no problem with a 7 year deal to a coach that of course would somewhat of a buyout clause in there in case the dumpster fire gets even worse.

What I cant deal with is giving the keys to an older NBA coach that does not have recruiting connections and does not have the energy at 61 to complete a total rebuild as massive as this one is. Again it doesn't have to be Hurley but it needs to be someone with connections somewhere in recruiting who is bright and young and who Hobbs and the fanbase believes can sell a vision
 
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I get what you mean abut Hurley. It could be him, but he is at least emblematic of the profile you're looking for. I agree on that.

I've always thought that in of itself, facilities are far too often used as a crutch or an excuse about why teams cannot compete. I still do, in a way, but my thinking has changed to reflect current realities. I still think a dynamic, energetic coach with credibility can build a program up around outdated or unappealing facilities. A guy can come to Rutgers right now and do that. I believe it. But where I've changed is that I am increasingly doubtful that a school in that position can lure that kind of coach. Not that it can't be done, but it's certainly harder than it used to be, and it's not just a matter of salary anymore. So, to that end, I see why updated basketball facilities are of the essence, especially if you are recruiting against other Big Ten schools with palaces (I know not all are, but many are).

It might also be that the right coach could stir the movement to get those improvements done, applying his dynamism to administrators and legislators as he would high school players. On the football side, I thought Schiano's strength was in directing exactly what needed to be done for Rutgers football to be competitive, and then having Mulcahy go out and do it. My impression was that Mulcahy came to Rutgers to play out the string and collect another state pension, hiring the Gary Darnells of the world, but that he actually got caught up in the dynamism of Greg Schiano and kind of "caught the bug" to really, actually build a winning program there. Such is the effect of a strong, dynamic coach. And I think it applies just as well to basketball.

The way I see it, as it pertains to Rutgers, it's been forever already, and that seven (or maybe less) years will actually slide by rather qucikly, one way or another, so if you're on the right road, they can be seven productive years. It sounds like a long time, but just seven years ago, Villanova made the Final Four. That doesn't seem like that long ago, does it? I think a commitment to productive patience will actually foster patient understanding. But it starts with the idea of accepting that and doing it right, not looking for quick fixes. They don't work, and aren't sustainable.

For the record, and with all due to respect to what Eddie Jordan means to you guys as a Rutgers basketball player, his hire was the first time I ever breathed a sigh of relief when you hired a coach. Bannon, Waters, Hill (!) and Rice all had me worried, but I couldn't imagine bringing in someone with less juice for a pretty big rebuilding job. I can't imagine anyone would've felt he was an appropriate fit for that job if he hadn't played there. And that just wasn't a good enough reason. Above, 1984 mentioned that it's hard to fully analyze where the program is this year because of all the bad injuries this year, and that rings true, but the trend was not good even before that, I don't think.
 
I wonder why bac has a Hurley agenda. Any ideas Choppin?

I don't know. I think he will have to explain it....but, this is what he said and he has not disputed it.

Jordan should have be let go after year 2 and that the good news is, and I quote, "Danny Hurley may still be available".
 
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He says that about everyone that likes Hurley. He's paranoid.

And you can prefer D. Hurley and also like other candidates but realize they would need better assistants or better bench coaches. And refusing to talk about it here does not mean it's off limits everyone else, like in Pat Hobbs office or in every high school gym in NJ.

Everyone sees the program's performance and this site does not exist in its own universe where everything is fine and dandy.
 
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Funny he says I have a Hurley agenda too!

You can be pro-Rutgers and think Jordan's not the right coach without an agenda.

This.

I had this same debate with Ohio last week on the RT...but then gave up

I admire his passion, but just have to agree to disagree on the magnitude of the car wreck that is before us.

I've never come to the conclusion during year 3 of a coaches tenure that he isn't the answer. however, with eddie, I could not be more convinced that he will never get it done. I only hope/pray that Hobbs has a good way to deal with replacing him. because every day with eddie in charge, is a lost day

I get that replacing him isn't easy, but I do believe that we're getting worse as a program each day, not better
 
This.

I had this same debate with Ohio last week on the RT...but then gave up

I admire his passion, but just have to agree to disagree on the magnitude of the car wreck that is before us.

I've never come to the conclusion during year 3 of a coaches tenure that he isn't the answer. however, with eddie, I could not be more convinced that he will never get it done. I only hope/pray that Hobbs has a good way to deal with replacing him. because every day with eddie in charge, is a lost day

I get that replacing him isn't easy, but I do believe that we're getting worse as a program each day, not better

I was a staunch defender of Jordan because I felt he needed time to show he could make RU a winner with the cards he was given when he was hired.
I went along with those who said it would take 7 years for RU to be made into a constant winner that would be expected to go to the NCAA Tourney every year
Original I felt 4 years was long enough but became more agreeable after some pointed out what Eddie had to overcome.
Now I year 3 I'm wondering if Eddie can do it because it seems there's no improvement showing
and doesn't look like that will change

Right now I won't be one of the off with his head crowd, but can see where they're coming from and won't speak out in defense of Eddie as a HC.
My saying give him more time won't mean a thing because of the way RU is playing now and even I question if given more time he'll get it done.
I can only hope he could and that's not the type of defense that would make anyone say he shouldn't be replaced the way Rutgers looks now.
 
Except every post will be deleted and every poster banned if he enforced his new rules.
 
Except every post will be deleted and every poster banned if he enforced his new rules.
[banana]:cool2:[cheers]:boxing::chairshot:
anigif_enhanced-buzz-6721-1371158536-25.gif
 
Except every post will be deleted and every poster banned if he enforced his new rules.

NO....posts would be moved to the following:

** You would have a dedicated thread for everyone dissatisfied with Jordan as coach to vent their frustration.

** You would have a dedicated thread for everyone dissatisfied with recruiting to discuss what needs to be done to improve it.

** You would have a dedicated thread for everyone dissatisfied with player development to discuss how specific players can and should improve.

** Separate Game Threads for comments on specific games.

Posts that overly criticize individual players that are trying their best would be deleted.

Adding a little structure would make this board more enjoyable and bring back those fans that truly want to discuss basketball....the board is now being hijacked by some hardcore regular posters saying the same thing over and over. Guys like Higgins, who I know really loves to discuss Basketball have probably abandoned the board.

So....as I have mentioned multiple times, I am NOT pro-Jordan. He could be gone tomorrow and I would NOT lose any sleep over it. I would support any coach having to deal with the current state of the Rutgers Basketball Program.
 
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NO....posts would be moved to the following:

** You would have a dedicated thread for everyone dissatisfied with Jordan as coach to vent their frustration.

** You would have a dedicated thread for everyone dissatisfied with recruiting to discuss what needs to be done to improve it.

** You would have a dedicated thread for everyone dissatisfied with player development to discuss how specific players can and should improve.

** Separate Game Threads for comments on specific games.

Posts that overly criticize individual players that are trying their best would be deleted.

Adding a little structure would make this board more enjoyable and bring back those fans that truly want to discuss basketball....the board is now being hijacked by some hardcore regular posters saying the same thing over and over. Guys like Higgins, who I know really loves to discuss Basketball have probably abandoned the board.

So....as I have mentioned multiple times, I am NOT pro-Jordan. He could be gone tomorrow and I would NOT lose any sleep over it. I would support any coach having to deal with the current state of the Rutgers Basketball Program.
You are one of the most biased posters on the board (you blindly support EJ). For the same rationale why I shouldn't be a moderator (get rid of EJ ASAP), you shouldn't. Quite honestly, you are pretty crazy.
 
You are one of the most biased posters on the board (you blindly support EJ). For the same rationale why I shouldn't be a moderator (get rid of EJ ASAP), you shouldn't. Quite honestly, you are pretty crazy.

Sure I'm crazy. I believe in crazy things like: better facilities are needed to help recruiting, better recruiting is needed to get better players. Until you have those things I don't believe in harsh criticism of any coach. You think 2 1/2 years is enough time, I don't. We disagree. I'm okay with you and others disagreeing and if I stand alone in my beliefs that's cool. But please don't be arrogant enough to think that you are 100% correct about everything needed to improve the product on the court. Your views are opinions only, the same as mine. You must be a Republican.....lol

If you can tell me how next years team will perform with a full roster...let me know.... I need a few stock picks for my portfolio and I could really use your help.
 
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Without differences of opinions we all would be parrots, agreeing the world is doomed to failure and there's no hope in sight or agree everything is beautiful and not allow a negative thought to contradict that.
Shame someone can't express positive thoughts about RU's MBB future and HC without upsetting some of the other posters here.
Of coarse if you don't want to hear things contrary to your own opinion, those who do so must be put in their place so they know they are wrong.
Anyone who posts their opinion after a win or a loss and don't go into hiding when the team doesn't
prove their point deserves to be heard and respected. Because he/she doesn't act like something isn't happening when it goes against what they've been saying about the team.
At least that's the way I see it :eek:
 
NO....posts would be moved to the following:

** You would have a dedicated thread for everyone dissatisfied with Jordan as coach to vent their frustration.

** You would have a dedicated thread for everyone dissatisfied with recruiting to discuss what needs to be done to improve it.

** You would have a dedicated thread for everyone dissatisfied with player development to discuss how specific players can and should improve.

** Separate Game Threads for comments on specific games.

Posts that overly criticize individual players that are trying their best would be deleted.

Adding a little structure would make this board more enjoyable and bring back those fans that truly want to discuss basketball....the board is now being hijacked by some hardcore regular posters saying the same thing over and over. Guys like Higgins, who I know really loves to discuss Basketball have probably abandoned the board.

So....as I have mentioned multiple times, I am NOT pro-Jordan. He could be gone tomorrow and I would NOT lose any sleep over it. I would support any coach having to deal with the current state of the Rutgers Basketball Program.

There's no way that this, the reaction to it and the cleaning up of the mess it creates won't be entertaining. It'll be like reality TV at its best.
 
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Sure I'm crazy. I believe in crazy things like: better facilities are needed to help recruiting, better recruiting is needed to get better players. Until you have those things I don't believe in harsh criticism of any coach. You think 2 1/2 years is enough time, I don't. We disagree. I'm okay with you and others disagreeing and if I stand alone in my beliefs that's cool. But please don't be arrogant enough to think that you are 100% correct about everything needed to improve the product on the court. Your views are opinions only, the same as mine. You must be a Republican.....lol

If you can tell me how next years team will perform with a full roster...let me know.... I need a few stock picks for my portfolio and I could really use your help.
You really think facilities are the primary reason holding us back from beating Monmouth, any P5 team with a pulse and having any recruits for next year?
 
You really think facilities are the primary reason holding us back from beating Monmouth, any P5 team with a pulse and having any recruits for next year?

I think facilities is a big problem and is preventing us from getting better players (AD Hobbs agrees ) Better players beat Monmouth. Better players are competitive against Maryland. Someone mentioned the 10 open shots missed against Maryland, better players make those shots. I don't understand why my opinion is so crazy on these points....but, you can disagree.

As far as next year recruiting...lets judge that in the Spring. I have no idea who will be signed, do you ??
 
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NO....posts would be moved to the following:

** You would have a dedicated thread for everyone dissatisfied with Jordan as coach to vent their frustration.

** You would have a dedicated thread for everyone dissatisfied with recruiting to discuss what needs to be done to improve it.

** You would have a dedicated thread for everyone dissatisfied with player development to discuss how specific players can and should improve.

** Separate Game Threads for comments on specific games.

Posts that overly criticize individual players that are trying their best would be deleted.

Adding a little structure would make this board more enjoyable and bring back those fans that truly want to discuss basketball....the board is now being hijacked by some hardcore regular posters saying the same thing over and over. Guys like Higgins, who I know really loves to discuss Basketball have probably abandoned the board.

So....as I have mentioned multiple times, I am NOT pro-Jordan. He could be gone tomorrow and I would NOT lose any sleep over it. I would support any coach having to deal with the current state of the Rutgers Basketball Program.


so sounds like something out of socialism or Obamacare
 
I think facilities is a big problem and is preventing us from getting better players (AD Hobbs agrees ) Better players beat Monmouth. Better players are competitive against Maryland. Someone mentioned the 10 open shots missed against Maryland, better players make those shots. I don't understand why my opinion is so crazy on these points....but, you can disagree.

As far as next year recruiting...lets judge that in the Spring. I have no idea who will be signed, do you ??
Do you think Monmouth beat us because they have better facilities, since, they have better players?
 
Do you think Monmouth beat us because they have better facilities, since, they have better players?

please stop...we don't agree. You are like the 5th guy coming over here to do this. Was something sent out for people to go to the basketball board and disagree with Choppin because he has a different opinion about how to improve the basketball program?
 
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I think Choppin just wants to create a safe space for those of us who wish to discuss basketball without vitriol.

Fans like higgins are great and they should not be scared off by some of the other elements on this board.
 
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I think Choppin just wants to create a safe space for those of us who wish to discuss basketball without vitriol.

Fans like higgins are great and they should not be scared off by some of the other elements on this board.

It's a shame that Higgins has been driven off the board. Hopefully, he is just taking a break.
 
please stop...we don't agree. You are like the 5th guy coming over here to do this. Was something sent out for people to go to the basketball board and disagree with Choppin because he has a different opinion about how to improve the basketball program?
What do you mean sent over here? I think I've been posting on these boards well before you showed up.

You want to be a board moderator and I'm asking you questions to see what your views are concerning the program. The problem you seem to have is that you don't like the questions, even though their mostly innocuous. I'm trying to understand your fixation with this practice facility. Getting defensive in regards to simple questions, doesn't strike me as a person with the right temperament to be the arbiter of speech on this board.
 
What do you mean sent over here? I think I've been posting on these boards well before you showed up.

You want to be a board moderator and I'm asking you questions to see what your views are concerning the program. The problem you seem to have is that you don't like the questions, even though their mostly innocuous. I'm trying to understand your fixation with this practice facility. Getting defensive in regards to simple questions, doesn't strike me as a person with the right temperament to be the arbiter of speech on this board.

Newsflash....not trying to be board moderator (even though I would be great...lol).......think about why I started this thread.....I mean really think about it. :boxing:
 
Newsflash....not trying to be board moderator (even though I would be great...lol).......think about why I started this thread.....I mean really think about it. :boxing:
You started this thread because you think your the smartest guy in the room. As this thread progresses, you're increasingly having a harder time accepting that your not.
 
^ instant classic.

You guys think this is bad, you should see his schtick on the CE board.
 
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You started this thread because you think your the smartest guy in the room. As this thread progresses, you're increasingly having a harder time accepting that your not.

Your the smartest......lol

You're the smartest...lol

You are the smartest
 
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