If we had Cliff...

[NewJerseyHawk]

Long winded as usual
Would Cliff be a massive upgrade over Big O ?
Yes - end of story

Irrelevant because this isn't football. RU shot 81% at the rim (18-22) last night....a dunk or layup by Harper is the same as a dunk by Cliff.

I will repeat again the facts, Cliff wanted the most money.......the estimated amount of money to account for Hayes, Acuff, Derkack and Martini costs less than Cliffs price tag, which is estimated to be north of 1M.....

Do we also miss Simpson, Mag, Gavin Griffiths and Wolf too?? Would you rather have their replacements with Lathan Sommerville OR bring them all back with Cliff??....

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

Irrelevant because this isn't football. RU shot 81% at the rim (18-22) last night....a dunk or layup by Harper is the same as a dunk by Cliff.

I will repeat again the facts, Cliff wanted the most money.......the estimated amount of money to account for Hayes, Acuff, Derkack and Martini costs less than Cliffs price tag, which is estimated to be north of 1M.....

Do we also miss Simpson, Mag, Gavin Griffiths and Wolf too?? Would you rather have their replacements with Lathan Sommerville OR bring them all back with Cliff??....

If the price tag is too expensive, I get that
Would rather have the 4 you listed vs. Cilff, as that shortens our rotation from 10 to 7 (or 6 if O doesn't return, which I assume he would) and with an injury or 2 in the grueling B1G, that'd be problematic

But to say we don't miss him is absurd to say the least

 

[DC8690]

We sucked last year

My response was to the post "All you need to look at is the rebound stat line to determine Cliffs absence", which you replied
"This ^^^^

Rebounding is a major concern right now."

Cliff was on our team last year. He was out rebounded quite a lot. So tell me how the rebound stat line last night would be any better with Cliff. He was out rebounded in 12 of the Big 10 games last year v their big man.

 

[Scangg]

How did Cliff do against Krikke, Ware,Reese, Crowl and of course Edey last year? In the 8 games v Iowa, Indiana Purdue, MD and WI games last year he was outscored by 101 and out rebounded by 33.

These types of stats could be even worse this year

To expound on this from last nite, Guards/Wings were 16-19 84.2% at the rim, Dylan 7-8, PJ 2-2, JWill 4-4, Derkack 3-4, Acuff 0-1. Bigs 2-3 66.7%, ZBo 1-1, Latham 1-1, Ogbole 0-1.
18-22 81.8% at the rim

The St John's game was tougher because Ogbole played 21 minutes, mostly in the lane

Alabama w/Cliff(1st game), 24-32 75% at the rim.
Bigs 9-9, G/W 15-23 65.2%

How many threads have been started the last 2-3 years because players aren't hitting their layups or bunnies? All good teams hit over 70% around the rim, 81.8% game 1. It's amazing how easy layups become when there isn't that extra defender in the lane defended a one dimensional big.

We have better players and better finishers this year. Blaming Cliff for other players not being able to finish is lazy

People really think Dylan wouldn't be able to finish if Cliff was here? Come on stop it. These players are just better

Is Cliff killing Alabama's offense? If he was this huge offense killer he wouldn't have been one of the most desirable 5's in the portal making 7 figures going to a top 5 team in the country

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

If the price tag is too expensive, I get that
Would rather have the 4 you listed vs. Cilff, as that shortens our rotation from 10 to 7 (or 6 if O doesn't return, which I assume he would) and with an injury or 2 in the grueling B1G, that'd be problematic

But to say we don't miss him is absurd to say the least

We don't miss him....we are a better and more balanced roster.

 

[T2Kplus20]

Wrong wrong wrong.. ..

The price was too expensive and he does not fit the style of play for this roster.

I will ask fans to learn the game and ask yourself....

How did Dylan Harper, Jeremiah Williams score yesterday.....by getting out in transition and driving into the paint, by beating their defender.....

If Cliff is on the court, where is he likely to be standing on offense.....

A) 25 feet from the basket ready to shoot 3s, set screens and roll to the basket to shoot 10 footers....??

B) 5 feet from the basket on either block, looking for a pass to try and score??

If the answer is either A OR B, both are negatives for the entire roster or other 4 players....

If it's A, the defender guarding Cliff, if he is 25 feet from the basket, setting a screen to help the guard, the defensive player guarding Cliff, does NOT have to leave the paint. ....because even if Dylan or JWill get past the defender that Cliff sets the pick for, Dylan has to then shoot quickly a 3 OR drive into the paint where the player guarding Cliff is waiting for him.

if its B and if Dylan Harper beats his defender, can he score at the rim, when Cliffs defender just leaves Cliff and tries to block his shot or alter it?? It makes it significantly tougher to have Dylan score, JWill score off the dribble, if they have to drive into the paint and beat their defender AND score over a 6'9 to 6'11 defender.

You also are asking the guard to drive into traffic and score OR make a crisp pass to Cliff to catch and score....Cliff can catch lobs and dunks, but does not have crisp hands where he's fluid around the basket to score.....if he did, he would already be in the NBA.

I don't know how many times it has been explained, this is a new or more updated/modern way of basketball called "5-Out" and Lathan Sommerville is the preferred style of B1G, to play a 5-Out offense. He is simply a better offensive player as a freshman, than Cliff as a 4th or 5th year senior.

Is Cliff a better rebounder and shot blocker than Lathan Sommerville?? Yes, but with every possession on offense with Ogbole, who is a worse version of Cliff when he was a freshman, none of our guards can drive and score or drive and kick, with a traditional center in the paint clogging driving lanes.....there is no drive and kick for a 3 pointer, unless the driver can actually drive and score.....and you cannot drive and score if Cliff is on the court, with his defender in the paint.....so the players guarding the shooters, don't have to worry about the driver actually scoring.

We are trained to complain about things, but they have to make sense.....Cliff with this roster does not help others on offense, become better offensive players.

Great insights. Appreciate the post.

 

[RutgersDom]

I think you forget he led the nation in dunks one year and we have a few players that can actually get in to the paint.

Forgetting offense...he is the missing key on defense.

Sommerville reminds me a lot of Zed Key from OSU. Talented on offense and has all the moves, but the size is going to be an issue. Especially trying to play as a freshman in B1G

Agree Summerville will be a positive on O and good enough on D. I do worry about him tiring towards the end as most freshman do

 

[DC8690]

These types of stats could be even worse this year

Maybe they will be worse, who knows, but I keep hearing how we are going to miss Cliff's defense. Besides blocks, Cliff was an average at best defender. He was not a juggernaut. Was he better than Lathan is now? Perhaps, but Lathan's offense right now is way better than I have ever seen from Cliff.

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

We don't miss him....we are a better and more balanced roster.

View embedded media

We got smoked on the boards vs. the Johnnies
Last night we did well against a MAC team

Like i said, if it means having the 4 guys we got instead, then I'll take that
But if cliff was there for the taking and we didn't jump on that (assuming we had the $), that's disappointing

 

[PiscatawayMike]

Quick question: are @JayDogSmooth and @jaydogsmooth1 the same person?

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

Quick question: are @JayDogSmooth and @jaydogsmooth1 the same person?

Yes
One is phone name and one laptop

Got new phone and for some reason name didn't appear when logging in, guess login credentials didn't save so just created a new one

Mike, met you and BEP at the B1G tourney at the Garden w/my pops
Introduced you two by your Screen names, you ask him if he posts, and like a dick he says "yeah my board name is Flemington Joe"

 

[socaldave]

Wrong wrong wrong.. ..

The price was too expensive and he does not fit the style of play for this roster.

I will ask fans to learn the game and ask yourself....

How did Dylan Harper, Jeremiah Williams score yesterday.....by getting out in transition and driving into the paint, by beating their defender.....

If Cliff is on the court, where is he likely to be standing on offense.....

A) 25 feet from the basket ready to shoot 3s, set screens and roll to the basket to shoot 10 footers....??

B) 5 feet from the basket on either block, looking for a pass to try and score??

If the answer is either A OR B, both are negatives for the entire roster or other 4 players....

If it's A, the defender guarding Cliff, if he is 25 feet from the basket, setting a screen to help the guard, the defensive player guarding Cliff, does NOT have to leave the paint. ....because even if Dylan or JWill get past the defender that Cliff sets the pick for, Dylan has to then shoot quickly a 3 OR drive into the paint where the player guarding Cliff is waiting for him.

if its B and if Dylan Harper beats his defender, can he score at the rim, when Cliffs defender just leaves Cliff and tries to block his shot or alter it?? It makes it significantly tougher to have Dylan score, JWill score off the dribble, if they have to drive into the paint and beat their defender AND score over a 6'9 to 6'11 defender.

You also are asking the guard to drive into traffic and score OR make a crisp pass to Cliff to catch and score....Cliff can catch lobs and dunks, but does not have crisp hands where he's fluid around the basket to score.....if he did, he would already be in the NBA.

I don't know how many times it has been explained, this is a new or more updated/modern way of basketball called "5-Out" and Lathan Sommerville is the preferred style of B1G, to play a 5-Out offense. He is simply a better offensive player as a freshman, than Cliff as a 4th or 5th year senior.

Is Cliff a better rebounder and shot blocker than Lathan Sommerville?? Yes, but with every possession on offense with Ogbole, who is a worse version of Cliff when he was a freshman, none of our guards can drive and score or drive and kick, with a traditional center in the paint clogging driving lanes.....there is no drive and kick for a 3 pointer, unless the driver can actually drive and score.....and you cannot drive and score if Cliff is on the court, with his defender in the paint.....so the players guarding the shooters, don't have to worry about the driver actually scoring.

We are trained to complain about things, but they have to make sense.....Cliff with this roster does not help others on offense, become better offensive players.

Thank you for taking the time for saying what I have been saying since Cliff’s last 5 games on the banks!!!
We are a better team without Cliff.
As we develop it will be glaringly obvious
However some on this board will never understand.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

Yes
One is phone name and one laptop

Got new phone and for some reason name didn't appear when logging in, guess login credentials didn't save so just created a new one

Mike, met you and BEP at the B1G tourney at the Garden w/my pops
Introduced you two by your Screen names, you ask him if he posts, and like a dick he says "yeah my board name is Flemington Joe"

Sure, I remember! We've run into each other a few times after games at the RAC, too.

 

[RUPete]

I suspect it was much easier for him to accept a secondary role on an experienced veteran team coming off a Final Four appearance, especially given the money on offer, than to do it for two five star freshman. All of these guys have egos.

Not so much ego with him. Instead, he finally got his opportunity to be paid and be paid well. Had to be frustrating for him last year watching others benefit from NIL while he couldn’t enjoy the same.