Let's just get it out of the way with Schiano
- Thread starter yesrutgers01
- Start date
So that's one way of looking at it but my reaction is that Schiano is the Lazy answer and choice...
It's so easy to say "Well he did it here before so he can do it again!" without looking at all the facts around him. It's even lazier that fans have virtually given up hoping to find the next rising star for a guy that most believe tops out as a 6-7 win coach for us. It's infuriating!
There is a rising coach who I have not shut up about for the last 3 months that just left a job where he was being paid $375k a year. He won the FCS national championship in 2016, has recruiting ties to the region, is 80-24 as a HC and has proven he can rebuild programs.... NO ONE will ever convince me we couldn't have gotten him. There is no possible way that a coach making $375k would turn down $1.8 million from a P5 job if offered. So stop being lazy in your coaching searches. Go out and find the up and comer with HC experience and recruiting ties to the region. Not the washed up guy who is barely hanging on to his coordinator job in the EXACT same role that our current HC was hired from who has been a total failure.
Your condition is not uncommon.
Many amateur golfers I know think that the next set of golf clubs will perform far better than the last set and bring them to the promised golf land.
Or they think that those vintage Ping irons from the old days will bring the magic back.
Newer is generally better in many areas of life imo.
One way a coach would turn down tripling or more his current salary would be if he felt he wouldn't be given the financial support to succeed at the program offering him far more than he is making at the present.
Knowing making the wrong choice might jepordise his future as a head coach at the program offereing him the HC spot and if/when better positions open up in the future.
Rutgers might be a P-5 Conference school , but isn't looked at as a desirable spot with the type of support it gets from theRU administration and/or open checkbooks by its boosters.
I'm all for getting a better candidate, but I feel it will be hard to do the way RU FB is supported, the salary it will offer to HC and give for his staff.
Heck I'm sure Schiano wouldn't want to take what RU offers, but he might just be desperate enough to being a HC again to take it if other offers don't come his way.
I truly hope a quality candidate will be willing to work for less make RU into a successful program . But from seeing the last two hiresand not hearing about quality canidates being intervied , I wonder if RU only has the type that aren't in demand at other programs looking for HCs.
I know Ash was set to interview at Syracuse, but was that interview leading to a hire or just because he was one of the candidates Syracuse wanted to talk to, but not offer until talked to others.
Can't say one way or another, but he did take the RU position.
Who were his competitors for the position that Hobbs interviewed ?
To answer the first part of your question the candidate of my choosing just accepted the HC position at East Carolina who has gone 9-27 the last three years and does not have nearly the financial potential of Rutgers.
I'm telling ya'll I have identified the candidate, looked at the possible scenarios of risk/reward and there is no better realistic option for Rutgers football right now than Mike Houston. The guy was going to take the Charlotte Job only to turn it down and take the East Carolina job two days later because he has openly talked about his aspirations to move up.
I'm sorry but you are never going to convince me that a guy who literally just took the ECU job less than a week ago would not have accepted the Rutgers job if given the chance. One year from now when we finally give up on Ash, he has to be the choice. There is no one better for RU right now
metaphors shouldn't bother us, remember experience counts at times and new toys might not be as good as an old reliable one.
I remember before Greg left, there were some who wanted him gone and a new HC hired.
They got their wish and the new toy proved to be worse than the old one complained about.
Got rid of that Flood toy and some think the new toy (Ash) that replaced that Flood sucks more and reminds them of the one (Shea) considered the worst toy in RU FB history .
Greg might not be the best candidate, but he might be the only decent one willing to gamble his future by taking the RU position at what RU would offer after paying Ash off.
That said: I doubt Schiano would want to come back knowing Barchi doesn't support the football program the way it needs if it is to be considered a top B1G program.
I also think the best candidates for the job will not consider Rutgers until it makes a financial commitment to make RU FB into a program that can compete with the best and be a constant top 25 team
I see your point, but I feel with the way Rutgers seems to want to cut its funding of the football program : Schools like ECU might offer a better opportunity for advancement , while Rutgers proves to be a coaching graveyard again.
I doubt I'll convince you to see things my way and can't see me changing my mind, but I will say you made an excellent case , even if I don't think the way you do about who would take the RU HC job.
Honest question. If Greg came back, lets say after next season so his first season would be 2020; what do you think his record would be in 2023?
7-5
The very first thing that has to happen is a viable QB who can actually run the offense and make plays or we’ll go 2-10 forever
See where we disconnect is our vision of what the rutgers job represents. I have been adimant that I believe we are a stepping stone job, similar to Vandy and James Franklin. That said it will take a coach righting the ship in order to move up. There isn't a better platform in the country than the Big 10 East in terms of showcasing talent. People pay attention to the Big 10. I promise you a coach who understands that he has the chance to show off that he can make Rutgers competitive with PSU, OSU, etc on the field will have Blue chip schools or even NFL teams salivating to hire him... You know, kinda like Greg Schiano did when he was here...
That's hard to tell.
If he learned from his past mistakes like he said in an article put out a few years ago, he might have a 10 win record.
That is if Rutgers was putting in the money to keep the facilities competitive and paying for a top notched staff.
I think the only way Greg would have a program we all complemented is if he hired a very good OC and gave him free reign over all aspects of the offense.
Meaning Greg couldn't be as much as a micro-manager that he was first go-round and stick to controlling discipline and the way he wants the RU D run
If Schiano didn't learn from his mistakes , by 2023 I would have learned from my mistake of thinking he could build a winning program.
Somewhere in between , if the RU administration wasn't financing the football program properly , Schiano would be having 6-6 to 8-4 seasons and that would get old quickly because everyone would expect better from him (rightfully so) and not give him the slack a new face would get with the same type of record
I don't think Greg would accept the RU HC position unless he felt he had more financial support for the program than what Barchi intends to give now and I'm not talking about his salary.
Greg would take the job if he couldn't get another HC position, but would take a DC position somewhere else if he felt he wouldn't get the support needed to make RU FB competitive against the best of the B1G.
Failure here would end any chance of landing a HC position outside of a HS program for him.
You can count on him bringing a list of things he felt Rutgers needs to do and expect them to be taken care of before he accepted the job, if RU offered it to him
He did the same when he was first hired and that helped make Rutgers leave joke status and enter a respected one.
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He definitely said that
And he definitely did exactly that
The problem was the next guy just didn’t get the players. Plain and simple. Everything was left for the next guy to keep it going AND he got the gift of getting rid of confrence uncertainty that hung over Greg’s last couple of years ...and not only got over that uncertainty ...got the gift of gift of being invited in the big ten
Everything was left here for flood to get it done ...and at least sustain what Greg left...and he didn’t...
I just don’t see a scenario where we couldn’t find a guy that has been successful at a lower level. We are still a big ten job and are the next to to step for those guys that would look at us as a stepping stone job. We are an excellent opportunity for guys, should think of RU as such. There will be guys interested.
That’s fair, I can’t guarantee we would hire the right guy even after findin* him! God, it’s tough being an RU fan.
As I stated in another thread, it works at Temple, four straight coaches leave for P5 jobs because each coach has left a pretty good team behind. Golden is the one who built the program and it took him a while, the other three have benefited from, and built to, his work. The next guy coming in inherits Russo for two years and a team loaded for 2019 that is expected to win 9/10 games. Our situation is completely different and more analogous to Golden's at Temple. The guy coming in has to rebuild the program from the ground up, that is likely to be a 5 year project, the guy coming into Temple can expect to get out in two years and with hardly any heavy lifting. We need a guy who believes Rutgers is his destination job and is willing to put the years in to build a winner, not someone who wants to make a quick hit and move up to his "dream job."
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A
anon_ivydyf0amkzay
Guest
Our hiring history proves a lot… And much of it not good at all… It’s pretty staggering actually
What you and the other people don’t realize is that it’s all about getting players. Recruiting is a zero sum game. We’re either getting the players to win, or our competitors are. Kids a majority of the time are going to choose their best offer. That is, unless you have an equalizer. For 11 years, Schiano was our equalizer, and for 11 years, he recruited as well as you could at Rutgers. Virtually every year we were beating out better programs for recruits. We didn’t get everybody, but we got enough. The reason is that Schiano knows how to market to these players. I’m not waiting for a lower level coach to come in and figure it out.
Think about it rationally.
Why would a recruit choose Rutgers with a lower level coach over OSU, Michigan, PSU, and ND?
They have tradition, bigger stadiums, a better product, bigger fan bases, and better facilities. That’s a hell of a lot to overcome. Yet for 11 years Schiano did it. That’s why he’d be worth every penny we paid him.
Because they don’t believe his body of work here was very good.
Despite the fact in the midst of his tenure he turned down Michigan, Miami and got an NFL job out of his miracle run here.
disagree. First of all the whole "dream job" thing doesn't exist outside of places like ND OR for alumni. We don't have either. Second, you don't need to win 10 games here or anywhere to Parlay it in to a much better job. Using your examples:
Al Golden: came into a disaster of a program went 1-11, 4-8, 9-4, 8-4. Nothing spectacular but showed improvement and MOST importantly the ability to recruit to a dumpster fire. In return he gets Miami job.
He's followed by Addazzio
Addazzio: Didn't really light it on fire: 9-4 followed by 4-7 and bounces for BC
Rhule rolls in and after the prior 4-7 has an excuse he needs a rebuild.
Goes: 2-10 year one
respectful 6-6 followed by great back to back 10 win season. Again, proving he can recruit and he's gone to Baylor.
Collins comes in an and goes an underwhelming 7-6 and 8-4 and he's gone.
In summary, I think temple coaches are getting jobs more on recruiting than actual winning. Rhule is only guy to win more than 9 games and when you look at their overall careers:
Al Golden 59-59
Addazzio 38-38
Rhule: 35-40
collins: 15-10
So, 4 guys with a total career HC record of 500
If a Guy were to come to RU and go 6-6 followed by 2 8 win years he's have his pick of jobs.
Doesn’t that analogy make us a stepping stone, even though you’re already coaching at the highest level?
Would a 52 year old Schiano with baggage be looking for another job?
Wouldn’t we truly be his last stop?
This is horse crap. he didn't get players over those schools. If you are being objective, most of his "big gets" star wise turned out to be busts. Outside of Davis and Britt, which 4 stars with legit offers really panned out? who did we beat our for Britt? Illinois?
He was a good recruiter, an above average developer of talent but he couldn't out recruit Pitt. We were usually 3-4 in conference each year in rankings. Let's not make believe otherwise.
As I said last week, almost every job is the country is a stepping stone. We recently learned FSU is a stepping Stone.
No it isn’t horseshit. Zuttah and Hamilton were 4 and 5 stars that panned out that chose Rutgers over more established programs. There were a bunch of 3 stars that did as well, like Brian Leonard. We may not have had Pitts recruiting rankings, but we had better players, which is why we beat their ass. From 2005-2011, Schiano was 5-2 vs Pitt.
I’m saying recruits now aren’t going to choose him, it’s not a comment on his first run here. If he hadn’t left, I’d be ecstatic to still have him. All of the “cred” he built here is gone though. All kids now see is a guy Ohio State fans are calling for to be fired not long after seeing Tenn fans revolt over the idea of hiring him. It’s two different times. I just think he’d be no more of a sure thing then a successful lower level head coach. Take him over almost any coordinator who hasn’t done it before though. He’d be a stopgap at this point, not a final answer.
How’s that?
Frost isn’t going anywhere, neither is the guy at Northwestern.
We aspire to be Iowa, where’s their coach going, where’s Michigan States coach going?
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This whole recruiting conversation begins and ends with the fact that RutgersAl claimed that Les Miles wouldn't be able to recruit on reputation, but for some bizarre reason, Greg Schiano would.
When you guys are done debating with Baghdad Bob, here, we could probably have some decent conversations.
When you guys are done debating with Baghdad Bob, here, we could probably have some decent conversations.
At this point if we don’t get that wonder coach from FCS or the Memphis coach... stop gap might be our best option
True, just not something I can be bothered thinking about a year in advance. Hell, I haven’t started thinking about my wife’s birthday yet and that’s in three days.
Schianos reputation was established by what he did here... important!
Les Miles is compelling when he speaks, I don’t doubt he could have recruited here so I agree with you.
Where we differ is I think GS could step right in and recruit well also.
Better than me, I can’t remember who I had lunch with yesterday, but I can tell you the cast of Leave it to Beaver
Schiano would do a great job recruiting the offensive players that would give us the kind of stale, low output offenses we had when he was around (and which we still suffer with) and which are even more obsolete today. Too many points scares him.
Our best offense ever was in 2007, so once Again, youre spouting a load of nonsense. Ray Rice had 2K yards, Teel threw for >3K yards, and Rutgers had 2 1K receivers, but dont let the facts get in the way.
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