Loyola
- Thread starter Mr Magoo
- Start date
You angry dude? Your post is kinda dumb ... If they were in a Power 5 ...they're not. I'll say it s l o w l y for you. If they didn't win their league tourney they would have been NIT bound, and at 21-5 in the MVC no one would have predicted this current run. And as far "that's the way it works" you're wrong. Unless they win the whole tournament they WON'T be ranked in the top 4. Your tournament finish is not your final rank.
I agree about the big man. For a beefy guy he has quick feet and agility. And he's excellent around the basketball with a highbasketball IQ. It's a pleasure to watch the offense --most shots are either in the paint or outside for threes and they make their shots. Smooth execution--just a very well coached team....
It's the drive to the basket that is unbelievable. It's usually not easy thru traffic, but they make it look that way because they can finish with either hand. Plus all those guys seem really quick. Fun to watch.
Except that everything I said was correct.
2010 NCAA Final Coaches/AP Poll - Butler #2
2011 NCAA Final Coaches/AP Poll - Butler #2
2013 NCAA Final Cosches/AP Poll - Wichita State #4
Also, not sure where you are getting 21-5 fro’ as Loyola-Chicago entered the tournament at 28-5.
As Loyola-Chicago has proved against P5 teams, they could clearly compete at a high enough level to garner an at-large selection in a P5 conference.
Doubling down on wrong I see. A final poll determines final ranking not the tournament results. Want to triple down?
21-5 regular season (won 4 MVC tourney games to win the tournament AND GET THE AUTOMATIC MVC BID). My point is they might not have received that bid if they didn't win the tournament. Just the way it is for mid-majors, and sorry I don't buy they would be 21-5 in a P5 regular season...over a full season they lack the size and depth/bench.
You don’t make any sense. Those teams were ranked in the Final Coaches/AP poll as I stated. The exception to this was VCU finished 6th in the same poll in 2011 after their Final Four appearance.
Loyola-Chicago wouldn’t have had to finish 21-5 in a P5 league to make the NCAA Tournament. They’ve proven that they would have been good enough to gain an at-large bid if they were in a P5.
Ive been reading your posts in this thread and you are making a poor argument, almost arguing about Loyola for no reason.
It's entirely not crucial to his point but I'm still kinda amused that 28-4=21 (by the way, they won 3 games so they were 25-5 in the reg season)
If you drop this year's Loyola in the B1G I could easily see them performing very similarly to Nebraska. Nebraska went 13-5 whereas Loyola went 15-3 in the MVC. If they had the same OOC (let's add a possible loss in the B1G-ACC) they would be something like 22-8 (maybe 22-9 or 23-9 after the conf tournament) with a dearth of quality wins, which would put them on the bubble, so I think there are valid points on both sides of this argument.
If you drop this year's Loyola in the B1G I could easily see them performing very similarly to Nebraska. Nebraska went 13-5 whereas Loyola went 15-3 in the MVC. If they had the same OOC (let's add a possible loss in the B1G-ACC) they would be something like 22-8 (maybe 22-9 or 23-9 after the conf tournament) with a dearth of quality wins, which would put them on the bubble, so I think there are valid points on both sides of this argument.
I mention the regular season record for a reason. Teams often catch lightening in a bottle at tournament time (heck on a lesser scale Rutgers did as well this year and over achieved in the BIG tournament). It looks like that is what is happen ending here with Loyola, otherwise everyone overlooked a top 4 team for the entire season (how did that happen?). And I'm certainly not anti-Loyola as Bac implies (in an earlier post on this thread I said if not for UM's BIG ties I would be all in with Loyola).
I do however believe that the occasional "special" teams from lesser conferences likely would not have the chance to make these runs if they were in P5 conferences. For a simple reason, they couldn't sustain the over-achievement against better teams for an entire season. They are smaller and have less depth in nearly all cases. THIS IS ALSO TRUE in most cases in football (if the UCF's or Boise States played a power 5 schedule all year against bigger, faster, deeper, and better coached opponents then they face in their own conference odds would be high that they drop at least one of the undeniably tougher games). In the Loyola example they pretty much had to win the MVC to be in, and I believe they would not win any of the Power 5 conferences. So if they WERE P5 this year they would have AT BEST an on-the-bubble record. We will never know, but to say they would perform the same in a P5 conference is stretching it. MOST opponents would be a HUGE step up from their current schedule ... allowing for the Pitts, Depauls and RU.
Lastly, a final poll determines final rank. If Loyola s crushed they won't be #4. Part of me hopes they are #1, I root for UM for BIG pride ONLY.
This is really kind of disingenuous for both basketball and football. If Loyola was in a power 5 conference, they'd be recruiting for a power 5 conference as would be UCF. Yes, as the teams are currently constructed, your argument holds. Put those teams in a power 5 conference and they would constructed completely differently.
just like everything, people always overact, jump to conclusions and like most RU games, make assumptions based on 5 minutes of the game -- or they overplay the latest flavor--I enjoy Loyola but if they get blown out many opinions will change--it's the reverse of "the sky is falling routine"
That's sort of true but not exactly the whole story. First I think these runs by Loyola/UCF are great but we're just looking at one team for one season or one hot tourney run and measuring that against a more rigorous P5 schedule. The teams/schools are what they are at this moment and that's all we look at. It's just the current snapshot for comparison purposes.
But to your point about they would have greater facilities, better recruiting etc.. if they were in a P5 sure but it's all relative. Many programs have been in the P5 with all the comes with it and never sniff any real success, us included unfortunately, so just being in the P5 and being constructed differently doesn't guarantee anything really. It's a relative argument because many other programs would have much more money status regardless.
While everything isn't peachy at the lower level and they would all welcome the boatload of money the P5 would offer, there are benefits to being a bigger fish in a small pond than a little fish in the ocean.
Let's just enjoy the Loyola story, all the Sister Jean hoopla, etc. When they advanced to the Elite 8, they showed Sister Jean being wheeled onto the floor, where she was hugged by each member of the team in turn. Then when they advanced to the Final Four, there she was in her Final Four shirt and they gave her a piece of the net. What a great story! She is still sharp, great smile, and she wants it as much as the team does. We don't need to think about how they would fare against Power 5 teams as a steady diet--fatigue and injuries would take their toll, but so what? UMBC and Loyola. Two great stories against the backdrop of the dirty coaches and programs exposed in the FBI probe. College basketball needed those stories. Don't overthink it. If the coach goes to a higher program and we don't hear from them for a couple of decades, it is not as though it didn't happen.
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The crazy thing is how they are doing their damage, yes Richardson went nuts from 3 in the Elite 8, but they are dominating by scoring inside. A lot of these mid-majors make it as far as their shooting takes them, for LUC its been getting the ball to the basket
They showed they can play with P5 programs, no reason to believe this team wouldn't be an at large team in a P5 conference.
I do think Michigan is a tough match up for them. P5 athleticism with top-notch coaching and a unique system is going to be tough for them to overcome.
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