Michigans game is...

[higgins3]

The league is very young.

Iowa, minus Jok, will be better than this year
Minnesota everyone is back
PSU everyone is back
Maryland losses only Dodd if Trimble stays
OSU only loses 1
Purdue replaces Swanigan with Haas
Indiana has a ton of talent minus Bryant

Only Michigan Illinois and Wisconsin are senior laden.

You can say they will be better, but they lose their leading scorer. We have witnessed how important scoring is.

PSU will be sweet.

Dodd and Trimble are huge pieces. Your star point guard?Very hard to replace.He is contemplating first and second round money right now.

Indiana is not a phenomenal team. They chuck, a lot. Their best player is on the sidelines, Crean, and that is a huge problem.

Haas is a good player, but he has weaknesses. They play different positions.

Haas will not replace 18 points and 13 rebounds. He is a 15 point, and 8 rebound at BEST. Still, very good. But nowhere near what Swangan gives.

As said, 7/14 teams lose their leading, or second best scorer. That is going to be hard to replace. If we loss Sanders, it would be big. But I do not think it happens.

 

[bac2therac]

these schools are bringing or have guys that will just slip into those roles..thats what you are missing here...talent is ready there...RU is not adding much at all to its lineup

 

[bac2therac]

Not saying we can't get to 9-12 spots,
but it shouldn't be expected.

Not to get too ahead, but 2018-19 is shaping up to be very strong for a lot of B1G schools.

Scarily good

I think its conceivable we could get out of the basement, maybe 11th at best...6-12/7-11 absolute best but we could easily be 3-15 as well

 

[bac2therac]

This was what year?When your key scorers leave, it is not easy to replace and say "Next year the team will be a ton better"

Next year should be the year the program can make a jump to 9-12 spots. Not everyone elses. Why is next year the year for everyone else, who is losing their key cogs, but not for Rutgers Basketball?

9? good luck....you have not addressed that RU has the 14th rated recruiting class in the Big 10...the school that some considered 13th Illinois has the 11th best recruiting class in the nation and tops in the Big 10 plus they still have some guys returning. So who are we moving up over....lets see the schools that we could pass are Nebraska, Illinois, Ohio State, Iowa, Michigan, Penn State. Well PSU and Iowa are very young this year, not to hard to imagine that they are on the way up not down. OSU is a very young team, I will be $ RU does not finish ahead of them next year. Michigan loses two players but DJ Wilson is going to be a stud for them next year and Beilien always does more with less....so perhaps Nebraska, I am not aware of who they have coming in next year, they were able to knock off some good teams this year. Illinois may have a new coach come in and has underacheived, freshmen will take time to adjust...I would say these are the two teams RU could pass that could get us to the 11 spot...9? I cannot see any scenerio

 

[RUJMM78]

these schools are bringing or have guys that will just slip into those roles..thats what you are missing here...talent is ready there...RU is not adding much at all to its lineup

There is a segment of the fan base that believes the talent disparity as well as the won/loss record are minor distractions which will be overcome with the same players and a additional year of experience.I say wishful thinking hasn't worked in the past and the only way out of the abyss is higher tier recruiting which prior head coaches have failed to achieve.Pikiell must break the cycle now or the lack of relevance will continue.

 

[bac2therac]

There is a segment of the fan base that believes the talent disparity as well as the won/loss record are minor distractions which will be overcome with the same players and a additional year of experience.I say wishful thinking hasn't worked in the past and the only way out of the abyss is higher tier recruiting which prior head coaches have failed to achieve.Pikiell must break the cycle now or the lack of relevance will continue.

RU will be picked last when next season writers and coaches poll comes out. Sure RU can do better but I caution fans expecting it..and expecting it because we have played some competitive games, competitive games are good for this program but ultimately its about wins and losses, all schools are playing competitive games, winning is alot harder to do and breaking the cycle of the basement..ask Pat Chambers about that in his 6th year and he may finish 7-11 with the best class in the Big 10 from last year.

 

[higgins3]

9? good luck....you have not addressed that RU has the 14th rated recruiting class in the Big 10...the school that some considered 13th Illinois has the 11th best recruiting class in the nation and tops in the Big 10 plus they still have some guys returning. So who are we moving up over....lets see the schools that we could pass are Nebraska, Illinois, Ohio State, Iowa, Michigan, Penn State. Well PSU and Iowa are very young this year, not to hard to imagine that they are on the way up not down. OSU is a very young team, I will be $ RU does not finish ahead of them next year. Michigan loses two players but DJ Wilson is going to be a stud for them next year and Beilien always does more with less....so perhaps Nebraska, I am not aware of who they have coming in next year, they were able to knock off some good teams this year. Illinois may have a new coach come in and has underacheived, freshmen will take time to adjust...I would say these are the two teams RU could pass that could get us to the 11 spot...9? I cannot see any scenerio

You have not addressed that Rutgers can be the team that improves as well, as they have this year. Michigan, the team we almost beat nights back.

As mentioned, 7/14 lose their best scorers. You just go back to our recruiting is the last, and the team is the team. It is unlikely that those recruiting classes all start and produce to beat teams.

4 games lost by less than 6 points,2 games less than 10.

Look at the teams for 9-14. Overall, and conference. It is very competitive.

If Rutgers was to move up, next year is absolutely the year. Depending on the people that come and go.

 

[higgins3]

RU will be picked last when next season writers and coaches poll comes out. Sure RU can do better but I caution fans expecting it..and expecting it because we have played some competitive games, competitive games are good for this program but ultimately its about wins and losses, all schools are playing competitive games, winning is alot harder to do and breaking the cycle of the basement..ask Pat Chambers about that in his 6th year and he may finish 7-11 with the best class in the Big 10 from last year.

I am not expecting that much, but will not outrule that it is possible. It is not crazy to think they can jump spots.

A lot of people are not happy with Pat Chambers, and haven't been for the past couple of years.

A lot of people also said the programs first 12 games would be 6-7 wins.

I am not buying hype, but I am not selling possibility either.

 

[RUJMM78]

You have not addressed that Rutgers can be the team that improves as well, as they have this year. Michigan, the team we almost beat nights back.

As mentioned, 7/14 lose their best scorers. You just go back to our recruiting is the last, and the team is the team. It is unlikely that those recruiting classes all start and produce to beat teams.

4 games lost by less than 6 points,2 games less than 10.

Look at the teams for 9-14. Overall, and conference. It is very competitive.

If Rutgers was to move up, next year is absolutely the year. Depending on the people that come and go.

Rutgers under Pikiell has improved in defense and rebounding which has made games more competitive.The problem moving forward with basically the same squad is the lack of shooters to get 6-8 additional points per game which is the difference between winning and losing.

 

[bac2therac]

again...you are not paying attention to recruiting classes...what RU is bringing in next year is 14th...other schools are bringing in greater to supplement the already greater talent they have. RU is losing Gettys...where is the replacement? I think we know what we have with our guards, we are not going to suddenly get some incredible leap of shooting accuracy...we know what we get from Freeman. The play of Thiam and Eugene has been spotty..these are the two that have the potential for the most growth next year.

Pitino's team won 8 games last year...alot of close losses...BUT he brought in a top 25 recruiting class...does RU have won coming in? Minnesota had a base level of talent greater than ours and added to it. That turnaround is nothing short of amazing actually..you almost never see it.

I think you get too caught in see a bunch of close losses and leads blown late, if you go back to Rice's 2nd year, you would see it as well. RU has 5 wins in their last 54 Big 10 conference games....thats 5-49.....so I would just suggest keeping any goals to maybe 6-12 at this point which is a very reasonable goal for this team next year.....16-15/6-12 or maybe even 17-14

 

[higgins3]

Rutgers under Pikiell has improved in defense and rebounding which has made games more competitive.The problem moving forward with basically the same squad is the lack of shooters to get 6-8 additional points per game which is the difference between winning and losing.

We have far from seen the best Corey Sanders. We have seen what Nigel Johnson could potentially bring consistently.

We have seen the ceiling of Mike Williams, which he has pushed through the roof for the past three seasons. Every year a new addition. Biggest change under Pikiell.

We have not seen the ceiling of Freeman. Still adding facets to offensive game, and has shown if players give space, he can hit a 3.

The ceiling of Thiam is immense, and you can bet Pikiell is excited about it.

There is no reason to think the current team cannot improve. The fan base cannot believe it because the conditioning.

This year- shooting has not been great. It does not mean it cannot improve. We have just been conditioned to thinking that improvement is impossible for this program. We have already been proven wrong.

 

[higgins3]

again...you are not paying attention to recruiting classes...what RU is bringing in next year is 14th...other schools are bringing in greater to supplement the already greater talent they have. RU is losing Gettys...where is the replacement? I think we know what we have with our guards, we are not going to suddenly get some incredible leap of shooting accuracy...we know what we get from Freeman. The play of Thiam and Eugene has been spotty..these are the two that have the potential for the most growth next year.

Pitino's team won 8 games last year...alot of close losses...BUT he brought in a top 25 recruiting class...does RU have won coming in? Minnesota had a base level of talent greater than ours and added to it. That turnaround is nothing short of amazing actually..you almost never see it.

I think you get too caught in see a bunch of close losses and leads blown late, if you go back to Rice's 2nd year, you would see it as well. RU has 5 wins in their last 54 Big 10 conference games....thats 5-49.....so I would just suggest keeping any goals to maybe 6-12 at this point which is a very reasonable goal for this team next year.....16-15/6-12 or maybe even 17-14

Recruiting classes do not take make up the starting five for a team. They are first year players. Sure, down the line it has to pick up, but I am talking next year.

 

[higgins3]

again...you are not paying attention to recruiting classes...what RU is bringing in next year is 14th...other schools are bringing in greater to supplement the already greater talent they have. RU is losing Gettys...where is the replacement? I think we know what we have with our guards, we are not going to suddenly get some incredible leap of shooting accuracy...we know what we get from Freeman. The play of Thiam and Eugene has been spotty..these are the two that have the potential for the most growth next year.

Pitino's team won 8 games last year...alot of close losses...BUT he brought in a top 25 recruiting class...does RU have won coming in? Minnesota had a base level of talent greater than ours and added to it. That turnaround is nothing short of amazing actually..you almost never see it.

I think you get too caught in see a bunch of close losses and leads blown late, if you go back to Rice's 2nd year, you would see it as well. RU has 5 wins in their last 54 Big 10 conference games....thats 5-49.....so I would just suggest keeping any goals to maybe 6-12 at this point which is a very reasonable goal for this team next year.....16-15/6-12 or maybe even 17-14

Gettys replacement is the very same that Gettys was, a grad transfer. I think Pikiell finds another one. Gettys is a 7 and 5 player. They are out there. Not convinced on Shaq with him having another surgery. If he wasn't, I could see him being 5 and 6 next year with those minutes.

 

[bac2therac]

Gettys replacement is the very same that Gettys was, a grad transfer. I think Pikiell finds another one. Gettys is a 7 and 5 player. They are out there. Not convinced on Shaq with him having another surgery. If he wasn't, I could see him being 5 and 6 next year with those minutes.

they do not grow on trees...RU was very fortunate to get Gettys

 

[higgins3]

I would make dollar dog type of bet that Rutgers wins 17 games next year if the main players stay. This y

they do not grow on trees...RU was very fortunate to get Gettys

They saw potential in Gettys. He was never receiving a ton of offers. He was a 5 and 5 guy at UNCW.

Then they developed him. And gave him more minutes.

They are out there. And if they do not get him, kid will be developed. I understand people are getting recruited to these schools and our class is the worst ranked, but watch. If they get a grad transfer, or just one transfer, and people stay, Rutgers will be a 16-17 win school. Which will be a lot of improvement.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Iowa losses their best scorer but will be better

 

[winfield102]

Higgins,

I hope you're right. History says you won't be.

Our offense is TERRIBLE (not talking about the scheme). The team has to take another leap forward in being smart when on offense. Limit unforced TO's (lazy passes, moving screens, etc) and take bether quality shots (easier said then done). For example, when Freeman puts the ball on the floor and tries to go towards the rim, the points per possession has to be extremely low.

How much more can Pike get out of these guys? I think we will be the worst shooting team again in the b1g (2's, 3's, ft's) and towards the bottom in the nation. Pike has to figure out some way for the guys to get better looks. I'm not sure if that's feasible though.

 

[higgins3]

Higgins,

I hope you're right. History says you won't be.

Our offense is TERRIBLE (not talking about the scheme). The team has to take another leap forward in being smart when on offense. Limit unforced TO's (lazy passes, moving screens, etc) and take bether quality shots (easier said then done). For example, when Freeman puts the ball on the floor and tries to go towards the rim, the points per possession has to be extremely low.

How much more can Pike get out of these guys? I think we will be the worst shooting team again in the b1g (2's, 3's, ft's) and towards the bottom in the nation. Pike has to figure out some way for the guys to get better looks. I'm not sure if that's feasible though.

I am not living in the past, because the present is showing a different narrative. You are spot on with what you mentioned. Which is your best point, there is a lot of improvement to be made. It still cannot be understated that the majority of the teams are starting with a lot to fix next year, regardless of their incoming class. Points do not grow on trees, we know that.

 

[bac2therac]

I disagree that the majority of teams are starting off with alot to fix. The league is going to be so much better and more experienced next year. This was its down year

 

[higgins3]

I disagree that the majority of teams are starting off with alot to fix. The league is going to be so much better and more experienced next year. This was its down year

I see that. To think you can replace leading scorers right off the bat though is not feasible. We have already stated and have come to different viewpoints. Well see how it plays out.

 

[BigLou]

All about the 3 point shot and it seems almost all of their players can hit it. It's actually incredible that we could have won a game like this without having good 3 point shooters. The reason we played with Michigan was gritty defense and that's what excites me about our future. Defense wins championships and we have the ability to cause turnovers, scrap for rebounds and play with intensity. I'm not saying Michigan doesn't play good defense because their half court defense is intense. But once we get a little faster, set better perimeter screens and recruit some shooters, we are going to compete for a Big 10 title and personally, I don't think it's a long term dream. I think it's a 3-4 year reality. People always talk about a rebuild and in football; we have a real challenge just to get to competitive. We are now competitive in hoops in year one with a major coaching upgrade.

You have to hit the 3 point shot And make the FTs to win these games and I have no doubt that our players are going to be in the physical shape to play the defense needed to win. Add some shooters and this is going to be fun as hell.

The 3 point shot was not why we lost to Michigan - at least it wasn't the primary reason. We were 6 for 16 for 37% and they were 10-31 for 32%. We were 1 Sanders 3 short of tying the game in the last few seconds.
We were hurt on the boards where for much of the game we were minus 10, tough at the end were minus 7. Many of their offensive boards were off of long rebounds on missed 3 point shots.
It now seems to me that we have to win every statistical category in order to win a game. We seem to come up short, usually in foul shooting of FG % and no matter how well we rebound, play D or handle the ball, we lose. This game we have the same FG % and shoot a better FT % (though fewer shots) but lose on the boards.
I do agree that we need shooters, especially from 3. every team in the B10 has them and Michigan had several. Our lack of a drop dead shooter is killing us.

 

[winfield102]

Without taking a hard look at each of the teams, I think all of them have other players that are capable scorers that will offset the loss of a leading scorer. We might be the team that is closest to being a 1 man show on offense.

Fair or not, Sanders has to take a another GIANT leap with his game next year. No more leaving his feet without even thinking about who he's going to pass to (does this 2-4 time a game). Needs to improve ft %, improve spot up 3's, drive to left, drive deeper on the right side and dish. If he can become more efficient, i think we have a shot at 6-9 wins in conference.

Next year I want to see us continue to consistently play tightly contested games and get 5 b1g wins.

 

[Pritz99]

OK, let's play devil's advocate. I wanna be the "glass half-empty" guy.

We lost a number of close games, some against good teams. How many of those teams got up for the game? How many just figured to skate through? Didn't wake up till the end.

Isn't there supposed to be honeymoon, a generation of excitement for the program? With recruiting it hasn't apparently been there. With a "stellar" staff on the recruiting trail. I think I heard someone say they were better recruiters than Vitale/Valvano. I'll give 'em a break on the last class (his first), but the last ranked B1G class in 2017? I wonder what Gio/Mansah is ranked overall. And what do the recruiting whizzes have in store for '18? A 3* (?) project who may give us 4pt and 7 RB a game. This is going to catapult into the heavens of NCAA bids and B1G championships? I know the jury's still out and there are visits and some positive vibe from some desired recruits, but I'm desperate for concrete results.

And as good a coach as Pike is (and I really do think he is), if '18 class doesn't get a lot better he won't see 2019 at Rutgers. You'll see a big name coach (and maybe AD) with the $$$ influx from the B1G.

 

[dpwhite]

And as good a coach as Pike is (and I really do think he is), if '18 class doesn't get a lot better he won't see 2019 at Rutgers. You'll see a big name coach (and maybe AD) with the $$$ influx from the B1G.

That is definitely playing Devil's Advocate. Wow.

 

[Pritz99]

I'm hoping it doesn't happen, but imagine only moderate improvement next year...say 4, 5 B1g wins and a disappointing recruiting class...the howling will be strong. It'll take a stellar year on the court and a couple of big names in the '19 class to keep his job.

 

[dpwhite]

I'm hoping it doesn't happen, but imagine only moderate improvement next year...say 4, 5 B1g wins and a disappointing recruiting class...the howling will be strong. It'll take a stellar year on the court and a couple of big names in the '19 class to keep his job.

I doubt it. Hobbs has to be patient and he knows it. He was patient with Kevin Willard before he moved on from that SHU interim job. Pikiell will get 5 years barring scandal.

 

[LotusAggressor]

people talk about Corey Sanders but virtually every team has a Corey Sanders or more than one of them....the issue is the other schools have more talent around their star players and RU is trying to catch up. RU has two wins for a reason, close or not

Virtually every team has a Corey Sanders that can actually shoot the ball.

 

[bac2therac]

I'm hoping it doesn't happen, but imagine only moderate improvement next year...say 4, 5 B1g wins and a disappointing recruiting class...the howling will be strong. It'll take a stellar year on the court and a couple of big names in the '19 class to keep his job.

winning 5 conference games is most certainly improvement whether it is to you or not....even 4 games...the team has won 2 games and probably finishes with 2 conference wins...there will not be any outrage and shouting against Pike in year 2..this is not Fred Hill

 

[RUonBrain]

I'm hoping it doesn't happen, but imagine only moderate improvement next year...say 4, 5 B1g wins and a disappointing recruiting class...the howling will be strong. It'll take a stellar year on the court and a couple of big names in the '19 class to keep his job.

Devil's advocate?

More like the Devil himself.

 

[Pritz99]

Gee, brain, a little harsh?

 

[RUonBrain]

Gee, brain, a little harsh?

Yeah, you're right.

I just hate to see anyone talking about negative "what if" scenarios where the fans wind up calling for Pike's head when the fan hasn't even been on the job for 12 months.

Negative vibes like that is no bueno and bad joo-joo.

 

[LotusAggressor]

Other than @MSU and @Purdue, rutgers is about 2-3 baskets or a couple free throws in each game from being in the top 4 in the Big Ten standings THIS year. 3-4 years from now? Heck yea we can compete for the B1G. We always match up well against Wisconsin and Maryland too, who should be the top dogs for a while. Not saying that it's positive odds of it happening, but there are odds.

Rutgers is nowhere near matching up well with Maryland or Wisconsin.

 

[knights1212]

Pritz, There is no way that Coach will be in trouble after only 2 years on the job. Why would anyone even bring such a thought like this up? This year is his only full year recruiting season. The time he was hired last year almost every good recruit was gone. Coach Pikiell has a 5 year contract and he will get at least that number of years. We are lucky to have him as our coach. I am quite certain he will get things done but we must be patient.

 

[RUsince52]

We'll get better when we recruit kids that are basketball players and not kids that just play basketball. A couple quality kids can make a huge difference, but probably not next year.

 

[SJScarlet]

Rutgers is nowhere near matching up well with Maryland or Wisconsin.

We'll see if this sounds smart after tomorrow night, and given we already led Wisconsin by 9 with 3:00 to go on a (barely) neutral court.

 

[Pritz99]

Hey, I've already stated I think Pike's a very good coach. Didn't say they would fire him after year 2. What I said was if year 2 shows little improvement (4 B1G wins -- for me this is not a large improvement) and the next recruiting class (2018) doesn't include some major players (instead of just projects) that the grumbling will start. That would leave the year 3 team with even less talent than this years' squad has. How do you think that will go over with the faithful.

Believe me, I want Pike to be successful, and I think he can be. It's just not the slam dunk so many expect it to be. And RU fans have never been accused of being patient, no matter how much they preach it.

 

[blockm2]

Making a serious run at a Big Ten title is honestly a 5+ year proposition. Do teams make big improvements from one season to the next at times? Of course. They also usually have some luck on their side when that happens and that usually doesn't sustain going forward. This is perhaps the most down the top of the Big Ten conference has been in 10+ years. Probably won't be a single team finish in the AP Top 10 for the first time in a long time. It's unlikely that continues. Teams will get better. Generally to contend seriously for the Big Ten title you have to be a top 10 or 15 team nationally, and occasionally top 5 teams don't even win it.

Making the NCAA tournament, however, is a much more realistic 3-4 year goal. Probably requires bringing in a couple top 25-ish recruiting classes in a row and some good coaching, but that is doable. Have a few kids overachieve their rankings and good things can happen. Then you can worry about building on that and recruiting higher end talent needed to compete for the top of the league.

RU won 1 conference game last year and has 2 so far this year. It's not about making the tourney next season because that sets up for disappointment. It's about improvement. Maybe 5-7 wins next season in conference play and then maybe 7-9 the season after that. At that point you are getting in the realm of NCAA bubble land and there is no reason Rutgers can't have a successful hoops program that regularly makes the NCAA tournament. You are in a powerful conference and will have plenty of money rolling in from it and are surrounded by a ton of HS talent. The Big Ten is also due for some major coaching shake up the next few years as guys like Izzo, Matta, and Beilein retire and probably Groce and Crean (and maybe some others like Chambers) get fired.

 

[LotusAggressor]

We'll see if this sounds smart after tomorrow night, and given we already led Wisconsin by 9 with 3:00 to go on a (barely) neutral court.

I stand corrected. Maryland only won by 20. Imagine what the score would have been if RU didn't match up so well with them.

 

[SJScarlet]

I stand corrected. Maryland only won by 20. Imagine what the score would have been if RU didn't match up so well with them.

How very mature of you to bump the thread! Please understand, you were essentially making a prediction, all I did was state facts of what had happened in past games, and say let's wait and see about this one. I was not predicting anything, merely pointing out that your post was stupid, and it remains stupid.

 

[LotusAggressor]

How very mature of you to bump the thread! Please understand, you were essentially making a prediction, all I did was state facts of what had happened in past games, and say let's wait and see about this one. I was not predicting anything, merely pointing out that your post was stupid, and it remains stupid.

I'd say that pointing out that Rutgers matches up well with a team that ran them out of their own gym is stupid.