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Name Current Coaches Getting Us To Sweet 16 W/O New Facilities

HeavenUniv.

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Sep 21, 2004
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For those who think we can Rutgers to a decent level (say at least Sweet 16 three times in 5 years) while continuing to play in an Indiana high school-size gym and NO practice facility,please name current NCAA coaches who you think can accomplish this without cheating. (And he can't be named Mike Krzyzewski)
 
It isn't just facilities, it is support staff, travel budget, recruiting budget, all woefully behind.

The list of coaches who can win as is:

1) No one
2) See 1
 
The number of current coaches that could have a team in the Sweet 16 3 out of 5 years is less than 8-10 total in the country.....there are 350+ programs and each and every year a 10-11 or 12 seed makes the Sweet Sixteen, essentially eliminating probably 2 of those teams a year, that would be expected to make it.

If you said once in 5 years, that would be an accomplishment for most programs......making the dance is still assumed to be a foregone conclusion, but there are a host of 20 schools today working for probably 6 available spots.

The facilities are not a valid excuse to be under .500 8-9 years in a row.....I know we need the facilities, but you probably need them to get "over the hump", where you are perhaps 18-11 every year and need that facility to land one difference maker every 3 to 4 years in recruiting. Most programs are at this level fighting for a bid and most are not living or dying on facilities....it's literally one possession each half that makes a difference in certain teams getting there or not.

I am looking for small steps out of the valley we are in now and thought we had momentum a couple of years ago, but it short circuited....
 
A young energetic coach who succeeds at a mid major level who believes they are so good at what they do that they can win despite our program's warts. Someone who is dying for the opportunity to compete at a higher level.

We are paying close to or over $1,000,000, we play in one of the top conferences in America, and anyone that succeeds here can use us this as a stepping stone to a prestigious opportunity in college or NBA.
 
why sweet 16 - how about .500 first.

I'll start with the Hurley brother, but I have 10 different names if you want them
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
A young energetic coach who succeeds at a mid major level who believes they are so good at what they do that they can win despite our program's warts. Someone who is dying for the opportunity to compete at a higher level.

We are paying close to or over $1,000,000, we play in one of the top conferences in America, and anyone that succeeds here can use us this as a stepping stone to a prestigious opportunity in college or NBA.
----------------
Couldnt have said it better - Eddie will make aroun 1.2 mil next year
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Hawk,
I will tweak it a bit--in a five year period, two Sweet 16, one to the round of 32, one we lose in the opening round, and one we don't make any post-season tournament. I can't go any lower than that--we are the State University of New Jersey, not Southeastern Oregon Tech. I don't think that is asking too much--we have had too many years of all our sports programs setting a pathetically low bar.
 
Sounds like Ben Howland isn't going to be as choosy this year. Also thinks the SI article portrayed an inaccurate picture of him and he's eager to explain his philosophies. Regrets not taking some jobs he was offered last year and will be much more willing this time around.

Next season, though, he intends to participate.

"It doesn't matter where," he says. "I'll go anywhere. I'll come back here to this house and Santa Barbara someday. This will always be here for me. But I'm fired up to get back to coaching. I think I'm ready to do my best job."

IIRC he built Pitt into a good program without a bunch of stars. Built up a hard nose bruising team. Sounds like he's changed philosophy though and wants to push tempo. We're not letting EJ go but I think Howland is someone who could do it with lesser facilities. Was the Petersen Events Center partially a result of some of Howland's success or was that going to get built anyway no matter what?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2015/02/21/college-basketball-former-ucla-coach-ben-howland/23569565/

This post was edited on 2/23 3:01 PM by rutgersguy1
 
why are we even talking sweet 16? I would sign in blood for a first round NCAA blowout loss right now and there are definitely coaches who could do that even with the lowly LBAC
 
With our budget it isn't going to happen.

Maybe a Bruce pearl would help but he signed on already.

You need a guy who can either:
- catch lightning in a bottle with underrated players (mid-major type of young guy)
- lure the big time recruits to Rutgers (established coaching name)

Eddie was an established NBA coach and he has struggled. Isiah Thomas struggled at FIU. If we tried to poach the top assistant from Pitino, Donovan, Calipari, etc... they would ask for more money then we are able to pay. They would probably want $2+ mil a year.

Eddie is our perfect guy to hold the program over until we get B10 money coming in or until we can renovate the arena / get a practice facility.
 
Damn right now I would take someone that got the RAC back to the energy level we had under Waters. Maybe with a little better recruiting and a little more winning.
 
Two coaches in Ohio with significant recruiting connections in the Midwest -- the coaches at Dayton and Xavier -- could turn around Rutgers. There are lots of players in the Midwest who would give their left nut to play in the Big Ten. Even for Rutgers and their facilities shortcomings. Of course it would take a king's ransom to hire them. I'd take either one of them before the Hurley's. We have a generation of data that recruiting the local turf is a pipe dream. We need a new paradigm.
 
Someone asked this question once...on the list were:

-Bannon
-Fred Hill
-Rice
-Waters
 
Heck, if we made the NIT Sweet 16 we'd be...

party0023.r191677.gif
 
What ever happened to the coach who is looking for a challenge? How tough is it to be successful at Kentucky? Just about Everybody wins there. Same with Louisville, UNC, Georgetown, Villanova, etc.

We need a guy who's going to say:

"Screw it, I'm going to show the Basketball World how good I am. I'm going to win at RUTGERS. I'm going to take on the toughest job in Major College BB. I don't care about the money, 'cause when I'm done at Rutgers, every program in the country will be banging on my door. I'll be able to write my own ticket. They'll know that if I can make it there, I can make it anywhere."

Whose got the confidence? whose got the balls?
 
Originally posted by HeavenUniv.:

For those who think we can Rutgers to a decent level (say at least Sweet 16 three times in 5 years) while continuing to play in an Indiana high school-size gym and NO practice facility,please name current NCAA coaches who you think can accomplish this without cheating. (And he can't be named Mike Krzyzewski)
I'd worry about getting to .500 in the Big Ten before I'd worry about being a top 5 or 10 program nationally (and that's what you'd be if you are in the Sweet 16 that often).

And no, it's not that hard even with bad facilities. Facilities definitely help, but a good coach could win in spite of bad ones. Especially at a school surrounded by as much talent as Rutgers. You don't need the 4/5 star players. Just well coached 3 star players will get you there.
 
Heaven, your thoughts on what makes a "decent" team are preposterous as is the entire OP.

I get it, we are all tired of the abysmal performances and frustrated. I have watched from my seats in 118 for 21 years. I sat there and endured last night's putrid effort (well, 35 minutes of it anyways). But if you are going to post at least think a little.

Your original idea of 3 sweet 16 in 5 years is ludicrous. The idea is so silly I actually sat down and looked at the last 5 years (I should probably just forget this and turn on the TV) and 12 teams made the sweet 16 3 times. Pretty high bar for decent. So lets look at how many teams made the sweet 16 just 2 times; 20. Yep, still a pretty high bar. In fact, only 44 teams made the sweet 16 even once over the last 5 years. Perhaps still too high a bar for "decent".

I think a more reasonable criterion for decent, and one much more relevant to our current dismal situation, would be to be on the bubble for an at large bid 2 or 3 times in your 5 year window. Given my definition I think you could easily name 40 coaches that could very likely get us to decent with our current facilities. To be fair, the vast majority and perhaps all of them would not come to Rutgers with what we are willing to pay.

We are going to have to take a little risk with our coaching hires as we always have. Belonging to a top tier conference should take a little risk out of the hire; coaches should be somewhat drawn to the top conference. However, I don't think the B1G is materially more attractive to a coach than is the old Big East before it fell apart so not much has changed there. While we eventually will have B1G money which will go a long way to paying for better coaching, that money is still a long way off.

So is Eddie the right guy? My heart wants him to be; who could write a better story than the star player returning almost 40 years later to lead a program out of the ashes? Unfortunately after two years my brain tells me it is highly unlikely Eddie is going to get it done. To me a good coach is one that gets a team to perform at a level better than the sum of individual players/talents and I think Eddie's teams fail this test miserably playing well below their individual talent sum (as low as that might be). I think we all are willing to give him a pass on last year's team, but this year's team's failure is impossible to ignore.

Originally posted by HeavenUniv.:

Hawk,
I will tweak it a bit--in a five year period, two Sweet 16, one to the round of 32, one we lose in the opening round, and one we don't make any post-season tournament. I can't go any lower than that--we are the State University of New Jersey, not Southeastern Oregon Tech. I don't think that is asking too much--we have had too many years of all our sports programs setting a pathetically low bar.
 
See linked recent article about my adopted second favorite team, FGCU here in southwest Florida, who made the Sweet 16 not too long ago. Currently coached by West Orange, NJ native Joe Dooley, who has masterfully pulled together his roster. The article mentions ... "FGCU received unprecendented attention when its basketball team made the NCAA Sweet 16". FGCU did not exist the last time Rutgers made it to the Sweet 16. FGCU's facilities are modest.

FGCU carves its niches
 
Heaven is setting up a straw man here.

I'm not going to take it, and I'm going to make a different argument.

How about a coach who can get us to .500 ball?

I got one: Tim Cluess at Iona.
 
Originally posted by Mr_Twister:

See linked recent article about my adopted second favorite team, FGCU here in southwest Florida, who made the Sweet 16 not too long ago. Currently coached by West Orange, NJ native Joe Dooley, who has masterfully pulled together his roster. The article mentions ... "FGCU received unprecendented attention when its basketball team made the NCAA Sweet 16". FGCU did not exist the last time Rutgers made it to the Sweet 16. FGCU's facilities are modest.
Dooley, who wasn't a college head coach for almost 15 years prior since he was fired by ECU back in 1999, obviously benefited greatly from the work FGCU Head Coach Andy Enfield did during his Sweet 16 run...as all of his Top 3 scorers this year are Seniors that Enfield recruited.



This post was edited on 2/24 10:07 AM by Knight_Light
 
Originally posted by cyrock3:
Heaven is setting up a straw man here.

I'm not going to take it, and I'm going to make a different argument.

How about a coach who can get us to .500 ball?

I got one: Tim Cluess at Iona.
I knew a little about him but read a handful of articles and Q&As with him from the last couple of years and I think he is an interesting mid major coach to keep an eye on. I mentioned a little about him in the run/gun offense thread. He talks about all the things we mention here about team, working hard, not giving up, etc..as keys to why his teams have been good.

His career and philosophy just seem analogous to one of those spread guys from football. Always pushing the ball up the court and lightning speed. His career path reminds me of them too like an Art Briles/Brian Kelly who has been successful on multiple levels. He was a successful high school coach, D2 and now Iona with a winning percentage in the .700 - .800 range.

He seems quite down to earth and grateful and I don't see him as a coach making demands on facilities or what not and probably feels he can win with whatever he has. He got the Iona job just on a whim sort of. He was coaching CW Post and his wife told him send a resume in and he didn't think in a million years he'd get picked but the Iona AD happened to pick his resume and interviewed him, liked him and hired him. Picked up his philosophies from his high school coach Frank Morris, the same place where Pitino/Donovan learned it. His offense would definitely be frenetic and fun to watch, not sure the defense would be so good though.

EJ isn't going anywhere but this guy along with Archie Miller are guys in the mid major ranks who I think could turn out to be good if they step up. I'm not as sold on the Hurleys yet like many other here. Maybe in time but not now.

For those interested here are some articles from the past few years on Cluess.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/5471383/iona-gaels-take-conventional-route-hiring-tim-cluess

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/iona-basketball-coach-tim-cluess-grateful-position-gaels-article-1.1015107

http://nypost.com/2013/03/17/serbys-sunday-qa-with-tim-cluess/
This post was edited on 2/24 11:28 AM by rutgersguy1
 
JesusMosesEd Jordan if we drop down to the Greater Middlesex Conference
The funny part about dreams of getting to a Sweet 16 is that, once we do, fans will complain about ticket price increases and having to donate more to keep their seats.

Vicious cycle being a Rutgers fan.
 
Originally posted by billhobo:
JesusMosesEd Jordan if we drop down to the Greater Middlesex Conference
The funny part about dreams of getting to a Sweet 16 is that, once we do, fans will complain about ticket price increases and having to donate more to keep their seats.

Vicious cycle being a Rutgers fan.
and watch the HC become next coach at Syracuse, Duke, LA Lakers or next CEO of Apple
 
Originally posted by Knight_Light:



Originally posted by Mr_Twister:

See linked recent article about my adopted second favorite team, FGCU here in southwest Florida, who made the Sweet 16 not too long ago. Currently coached by West Orange, NJ native Joe Dooley, who has masterfully pulled together his roster. The article mentions ... "FGCU received unprecendented attention when its basketball team made the NCAA Sweet 16". FGCU did not exist the last time Rutgers made it to the Sweet 16. FGCU's facilities are modest.
Dooley, who wasn't a college head coach for almost 15 years prior since he was fired by ECU back in 1999, obviously benefited greatly from the work FGCU Head Coach Andy Enfield did during his Sweet 16 run...as all of his Top 3 scorers this year are Seniors that Enfield recruited.





This post was edited on 2/24 10:07 AM by Knight_Light
I'm ready to trade our roster for FGCU's. Look at the freshman and sophmores (see link) (Dooley's players). Long and athletic. Look at the length of the players on the roster. And a mature team with transfers mixed in who had to sit for a year. Recruited players from Indiana, Chicago, St. Louis, Miami, Jacksonville. Rutgers should be so lucky. And the stuff about Dooley not being a head coach for 15 years -- 10 of those years were as an assistant at Kansas! Not a bad gig.

This post was edited on 2/24 11:32 AM by Mr_Twister

FGCU's roster
 
Originally posted by Mr_Twister:
Originally posted by Knight_Light:

Dooley, who wasn't a college head coach for almost 15 years prior since he was fired by ECU back in 1999, obviously benefited greatly from the work FGCU Head Coach Andy Enfield did during his Sweet 16 run...as all of his Top 3 scorers this year are Seniors that Enfield recruited.


This post was edited on 2/24 10:07 AM by Knight_Light
I'm ready to trade our roster for FGCU's. Look at the freshman and sophmores (see link) (Dooley's players). Long and athletic. Look at the length of the players on the roster. And a mature team with transfers mixed in who had to sit for a year. And the stuff about Dooley not being a head coach for 15 years -- 10 of those years were as an assistant at Kansas! Not a bad gig.
He's a name I've thought about too and it's the 10 years with Bill Self that is more interesting to me than the Kansas thing. The previous stint at ECU wouldn't bother me as much as did he improve after those 10 years under Self? Just like the Hurleys, I'd like to see him do it longer to see if that time with Self made him better and if he can keep doing it with his own guys.
 
Originally posted by rutgersguy1:



Originally posted by Mr_Twister:


Originally posted by Knight_Light:

Dooley, who wasn't a college head coach for almost 15 years prior since he was fired by ECU back in 1999, obviously benefited greatly from the work FGCU Head Coach Andy Enfield did during his Sweet 16 run...as all of his Top 3 scorers this year are Seniors that Enfield recruited.




This post was edited on 2/24 10:07 AM by Knight_Light
I'm ready to trade our roster for FGCU's. Look at the freshman and sophmores (see link) (Dooley's players). Long and athletic. Look at the length of the players on the roster. And a mature team with transfers mixed in who had to sit for a year. And the stuff about Dooley not being a head coach for 15 years -- 10 of those years were as an assistant at Kansas! Not a bad gig.
He's a name I've thought about too and it's the 10 years with Bill Self that is more interesting to me than the Kansas thing. The previous stint at ECU wouldn't bother me as much as did he improve after those 10 years under Self? Just like the Hurleys, I'd like to see him do it longer to see if that time with Self made him better and if he can keep doing it with his own guys.


Originally posted by rutgersguy1:



Originally posted by Mr_Twister:


Originally posted by Knight_Light:

Dooley, who wasn't a college head coach for almost 15 years prior since he was fired by ECU back in 1999, obviously benefited greatly from the work FGCU Head Coach Andy Enfield did during his Sweet 16 run...as all of his Top 3 scorers this year are Seniors that Enfield recruited.




This post was edited on 2/24 10:07 AM by Knight_Light
I'm ready to trade our roster for FGCU's. Look at the freshman and sophmores (see link) (Dooley's players). Long and athletic. Look at the length of the players on the roster. And a mature team with transfers mixed in who had to sit for a year. And the stuff about Dooley not being a head coach for 15 years -- 10 of those years were as an assistant at Kansas! Not a bad gig.
He's a name I've thought about too and it's the 10 years with Bill Self that is more interesting to me than the Kansas thing. The previous stint at ECU wouldn't bother me as much as did he improve after those 10 years under Self? Just like the Hurleys, I'd like to see him do it longer to see if that time with Self made him better and if he can keep doing it with his own guys.
BTW, I am not pushing Dooley for the Rutgers position. What I am trying to say is that Rutgers needs to drastically redraw their model for success. The facilities angle is nice but not primary. Drop the "recruit locally" nonsense. Get long and athletic players from the midwest and/or wherever. There are plenty of non-NBA caliber athletes (high school players and college transfers and offspring of NBA players) choosing schools like FGCU and Dayton and Xavier and VCU and Northern Iowa and Providence and Colorado State who would look good in a Rutgers uniform, who would love to compete in the Big Ten, who can shoot and dribble and rebound and dunk and play above the rim and compete, and who would stay four years. We are picking the wrong recruiting battles. Please drop any semblance of the recruit locally mentality and getting NBA-caliber and one-and-done types. It is absolutely a waste of time. Even if we get them, they always bolt for greener pastures.
This post was edited on 2/24 2:18 PM by Mr_Twister
 
Originally posted by Mr_Twister:

BTW, I am not pushing Dooley for the Rutgers position. What I am trying to say is that Rutgers needs to drastically redraw their model for success. The facilities angle is nice but not primary. Drop the "recruit locally" nonsense. Get long and athletic players from the midwest and/or wherever. There are plenty of non-NBA caliber athletes (high school players and college transfers and offspring of NBA players) choosing schools like FGCU and Dayton and Xavier and VCU and Northern Iowa and Providence and Colorado State who would look good in a Rutgers uniform, who would love to compete in the Big Ten, who can shoot and dribble and rebound and compete, and who would stay four years. We are picking the wrong recruiting battles. Please drop any semblance of the recruit locally mentality and getting NBA-caliber and one-and-done types. It is absolutely a waste of time. Even if we get them, they always bolt for greener pastures.
I agree with you on that and others have said the same here. I feel that way both in football and basketball. I'm always about the coaching and finding players that work well in whatever particular system a coach may employ.

I'm not pushing any candidates either. I'm a little less knowledgeable about basketball coaches but just like in football I like to see who the candidates out there are in any given year and check out their qualities regardless of whether we have a search or not.
 
But the reality is this: after 24 years without an NCAA tournament appearance, after the Bannon, Hill and Rice failures and/or embarrassments, Rutgers is not a more attractive destination than Xavier, Providence, Colorado State (for more than one reason!) and Dayton.

I agree we should stop recruiting the elite four-star, borderline five-stars because history suggests it rarely works out for us, and the key is identifying the right talent early before the Temple's and Xavier's.

But as long as Ed Cooley is at Providence, Shaka Smart at VCU, Ben Jacobsen at Northern Iowa, Chris Mack at Xavier, Archie Miller at Dayton, etc, we cannot rely on beating out these schools, in my opinion.

We really have to go even deeper than that. It's not impossible to beat the schools listed above, just as hard as beating out any other Power 5 conference tournament team.


Dooley's doing a good job but the Atlantic Sun might be one of the bottom five conferences. Still doing a good job. Recruited Rayjon Tucker out of North Carolina which was a steal.
This post was edited on 2/24 3:03 PM by Aggs
 
And just to follow up about Rutgers vs. Providence, Xavier, Temple, VCU, etc ...

Moravian Prep wing Ricky Council just committed to Providence. We visited him in October but never offered. Not sure it was the right fit considering he's similar to Ryan Johnson.

Life Center Academy Malik Ellison wing scorer - considering Minnesota, California, Temple, Maryland, Rhode Island, Penn State, Rutgers and Seton Hall.

Minnesota and their NYC lead assistant have recruited Ellison a long time. I would put us near the bottom if I was making Las Vegas Odds - as much as I hate to admit it.

Dusan Kovacevic - skilled European big playing in North Carolina. Considering Davidson, East Carolina (with new facilities on the way!), Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Charlotte, and many others. Where to do we fit on a list like this?

Some of it's out of our hands. Again it's going to be on the staff to squeeze every bit of talent from our guys.
 
Originally posted by Aggs:
But the reality is this: after 24 years without an NCAA tournament appearance, after the Bannon, Hill and Rice failures and/or embarrassments, Rutgers is not a more attractive destination than Xavier, Providence, Colorado State (for more than one reason!) and Dayton.

I agree we should stop recruiting the elite four-star, borderline five-stars because history suggests it rarely works out for us, and the key is identifying the right talent early before the Temple's and Xavier's.

But as long as Ed Cooley is at Providence, Shaka Smart at VCU, Ben Jacobsen at Northern Iowa, Chris Mack at Xavier, Archie Miller at Dayton, etc, we cannot rely on beating out these schools, in my opinion.

We really have to go even deeper than that. It's not impossible to beat the schools listed above, just as hard as beating out any other Power 5 conference tournament team.
For some mid majors I'd agree, it would be tough for us to out recruit them. For others, I don't think it's so difficult despite our pathetic history. It is still a big conference and we offer more exposure. The BE has a Fox contract so they get on tv including broadcast tv but the other mid majors not so much. We still get on the ESPN networks or the BTN for almost all our games. If we had any pulse, the possibility of more ESPN and even a CBS game would be there but even without that pulse the exposure is there as opposed to some of these mid majors.

On top of which, just like in football there are only so many spots and so much playing time to go around. There are also transfers, jucos and international players to try and get. Is it an easy task? No, but I don't think it's impossible. I still believe it's about the coach having a system, recruiting to that system and having the pieces fit together well and having the players play as a team. So if you look at it from that perspective, to me players are out there. It's up to the coach to make it all fit together.

This post was edited on 2/24 4:48 PM by rutgersguy1
 
I agree with your line sentence.

We need to see a system developed by Year 3. Right now it's not a system or it's just not being executed which goes to coaching.
 
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