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GAME 18 ILLINOIS: Wash, rinse, repeat

bac2therac

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I said enjoy it while you can after the Nebraska win. The two game stretch at Illinois and home to Purdue had the potential to be ugly and today's performance was confirmation. Reality is Rutgers does not have enough to win regularly in this leagu. You cannot fix what you do not have. Talent is so limited. Blah blah blah..insert other game recaps. Nothing surprised me today. I did not like that were sort of flatfooted early on and Illinois got an early lead but I felt as the game wore on in the 2nd, RU started to at least compete. To me in these games vs schools that are simply better, the #1 thing I look at is competing and even if the game got out of hand at the end, RU did that. We can dwell on the negatives but sometimes you just have to try and scrape to find small positives in situations like this.

Illinois is a very very good team. Without Shannon perhaps a Sweet 16 team, with Shannon perhaps a Final 4 team. Underwood has done a fantastic job navigting the absence of Shannon. He is such a good coach. Watch out Illinois moves the ball and works hard and just does not settle for one on one shots. Commitment to succeeding offensively. They can take it to the hoop or kick it out and they didnt particularly shoot the 3 well today. So many options. Did anyone expect a win today? If you watched RU this year, you would know in your heart this was not a winnable game and if Shannon played RU still would not have won. Credit Illinois, there is no shame losing this game. Fans can harp on whether Shannon should or should not play but if charges were made against one of our players, its likely most of our fans would be supporting our player playing and cheering them. RU fans and Nj residents do not have some sort of moral chromosone any different than the fans in Illinois.

RU showed me something in that stretch where they went on a 15-4 run and cut the 16 point defecit to 55-51 with 10 minutes to go. It was about a 4 minute plus stretch of play where RU was simply outplaying Illinois and taking advantage of every Illinois mistake. That scarp and claw and never give up trait is admirable by a team that is severely overmatched. Unfortunately like vs Michigan State and Wake Forest, it fell apart from there. If you want to pinpoint the turning point of the game it was Cliff failing to convert 2x at the rim with RU down 56-51. On the following play, it was Shannon juking for a layup on the break which he followed up with another layup on a terrible Mag turnover that put Illinois up 60-51. Effectively the game was over. The Illini completed a punishing 25-8 run as RU would hit just 2fg in 6f minutes. Good effort to the 10 minute point but Underwood got Illinois to respond and have to really give them credit. RU's spirit was broked and lets be honest. Look at the options Illinois has vs Rutgers. Its men vs boys. RU would only make 4 fg the last 10 minutes while being outscored 31-12

We can take some solace that Cliff is back and unlike with some other players up and down play, we know Cliff can play at a high level so this is important. He outplayed Hawkins totally on the offensive end and Hawkins is not a slouch. Cliff needs to get all the kudos and applause he can get. After some dreadful performance and deferring to lesser talented inexperienced players, Cliff said no more. I am the man. He is following through. Another monster performance on the heels of the Nebby breakout. 22 points on 10-19 shooting...unbelieve 19 shots! 9 boards, 5 on the offensive end. Cliff carried the whole team tonight. Unfortunately no one else showed up but that is not Cliffs fault. I fully expect Cliff to keep leading by example going forward. Do not sleep on the significance of Cliff back to becoming an offensive threat which will change how other defensive have to cover RU

In trying to find some other positives. I like that J Mike got back into the rotation after limited minutes vs Nebby. Not perfect but I am not expecting that for a freshmen point guard thrust into a situation he should not be. 24 minutes, only 1-3 fg, 7 points, 3 boards, 0 assists, 2 turnovers. J Mike had the last 5 RU points in the last 4 minutes...all free throws. Not the greatest line but to me its great Pike getting him minutes vs TOP competition to toughen him up so he can learn from his mistakes now. Noah was a plus today with 10 points in 17 minutes on 4-7 fg shooting but continues to be spotty. He will give you some really good stretches but unfortunately too many stretches were he gives you nothing. Griffiths only 8 minutes and its a damn shame that Pike is not giving him the experience especially in a game that was over by the 7 minute mark. Oskar 17 minutes and that he plays that many minute says alot of the talent level right now. He made a 3 but i think fans expectations level need to be more than that. Hyatt disappeared for too long in this game. Predictably padded his stats to double digit scoring when the game was out of reach. No chance to win when he is ghosting so much in the first half. So much for Austin Williams being the consistent savior. 17 minutes of ineffective play, just 0-3 fg and was never in the flow and seemed overmatched in a game like this. Likely will have better matchups but just remember he is only capable of so much. Pike must know his role. Derek Simpson continues to be a bad shooter....3-10 fg today in only 19 minutes and people expecting him to take a leap at consistency after a really good game vs Nebby are mistaken. He is what he is. He will be effective against some teams but simply does not have the hops against the Illinois men. Mag who has been sensational and so consistent offensively for RU had an awful game. Might have been bothered by Illinois size and he never got into any rhythm and with him being the heart of the RU defense its no surprise the RU defense never approached elite level today. Woofolk just 13 minutes, 1-4 fg, only 1 rebound, active in garbage time. Just overmatched in league play. Chol 3 minutes..nuff said.

Onto Purdue at the RAC. RU has had great success vs Purdue in victory and defeat. Cliff has limited Edey as well. I expect RU to compete in front of a raucous RAC crowd. RU will have to have their absolute best shooting night of the season to pull the giant upset. The gap between the two schools is much larger than in the previous 2 seasons even as Purdue remains at the lofty perch at the top of the rankings. I know there were some clinging to some fantasy NCAA run and that they were not giving up on this team but without being Purdue, you can shut the door definitively on any possibility of that. RU currently has 8 losses and all the losses are to NCAA likely or bubble schools. The schedule lessens considerably after Purdue. Remember that. Thats is what Pike needs to be setting goals for in these games because instead of being overwhelmed, RU will have the ability to compete and win games vs the Michigans, Penn States, and Marylands of the world.


Emq4u9zXUAoGNmZ
 
I said enjoy it while you can after the Nebraska win. The two game stretch at Illinois and home to Purdue had the potential to be ugly and today's performance was confirmation. Reality is Rutgers does not have enough to win regularly in this leagu. You cannot fix what you do not have. Talent is so limited. Blah blah blah..insert other game recaps. Nothing surprised me today. I did not like that were sort of flatfooted early on and Illinois got an early lead but I felt as the game wore on in the 2nd, RU started to at least compete. To me in these games vs schools that are simply better, the #1 thing I look at is competing and even if the game got out of hand at the end, RU did that. We can dwell on the negatives but sometimes you just have to try and scrape to find small positives in situations like this.

Illinois is a very very good team. Without Shannon perhaps a Sweet 16 team, with Shannon perhaps a Final 4 team. Underwood has done a fantastic job navigting the absence of Shannon. He is such a good coach. Watch out Illinois moves the ball and works hard and just does not settle for one on one shots. Commitment to succeeding offensively. They can take it to the hoop or kick it out and they didnt particularly shoot the 3 well today. So many options. Did anyone expect a win today? If you watched RU this year, you would know in your heart this was not a winnable game and if Shannon played RU still would not have won. Credit Illinois, there is no shame losing this game. Fans can harp on whether Shannon should or should not play but if charges were made against one of our players, its likely most of our fans would be supporting our player playing and cheering them. RU fans and Nj residents do not have some sort of moral chromosone any different than the fans in Illinois.

RU showed me something in that stretch where they went on a 15-4 run and cut the 16 point defecit to 55-51 with 10 minutes to go. It was about a 4 minute plus stretch of play where RU was simply outplaying Illinois and taking advantage of every Illinois mistake. That scarp and claw and never give up trait is admirable by a team that is severely overmatched. Unfortunately like vs Michigan State and Wake Forest, it fell apart from there. If you want to pinpoint the turning point of the game it was Cliff failing to convert 2x at the rim with RU down 56-51. On the following play, it was Shannon juking for a layup on the break which he followed up with another layup on a terrible Mag turnover that put Illinois up 60-51. Effectively the game was over. The Illini completed a punishing 25-8 run as RU would hit just 2fg in 6f minutes. Good effort to the 10 minute point but Underwood got Illinois to respond and have to really give them credit. RU's spirit was broked and lets be honest. Look at the options Illinois has vs Rutgers. Its men vs boys. RU would only make 4 fg the last 10 minutes while being outscored 31-12

We can take some solace that Cliff is back and unlike with some other players up and down play, we know Cliff can play at a high level so this is important. He outplayed Hawkins totally on the offensive end and Hawkins is not a slouch. Cliff needs to get all the kudos and applause he can get. After some dreadful performance and deferring to lesser talented inexperienced players, Cliff said no more. I am the man. He is following through. Another monster performance on the heels of the Nebby breakout. 22 points on 10-19 shooting...unbelieve 19 shots! 9 boards, 5 on the offensive end. Cliff carried the whole team tonight. Unfortunately no one else showed up but that is not Cliffs fault. I fully expect Cliff to keep leading by example going forward. Do not sleep on the significance of Cliff back to becoming an offensive threat which will change how other defensive have to cover RU

In trying to find some other positives. I like that J Mike got back into the rotation after limited minutes vs Nebby. Not perfect but I am not expecting that for a freshmen point guard thrust into a situation he should not be. 24 minutes, only 1-3 fg, 7 points, 3 boards, 0 assists, 2 turnovers. J Mike had the last 5 RU points in the last 4 minutes...all free throws. Not the greatest line but to me its great Pike getting him minutes vs TOP competition to toughen him up so he can learn from his mistakes now. Noah was a plus today with 10 points in 17 minutes on 4-7 fg shooting but continues to be spotty. He will give you some really good stretches but unfortunately too many stretches were he gives you nothing. Griffiths only 8 minutes and its a damn shame that Pike is not giving him the experience especially in a game that was over by the 7 minute mark. Oskar 17 minutes and that he plays that many minute says alot of the talent level right now. He made a 3 but i think fans expectations level need to be more than that. Hyatt disappeared for too long in this game. Predictably padded his stats to double digit scoring when the game was out of reach. No chance to win when he is ghosting so much in the first half. So much for Austin Williams being the consistent savior. 17 minutes of ineffective play, just 0-3 fg and was never in the flow and seemed overmatched in a game like this. Likely will have better matchups but just remember he is only capable of so much. Pike must know his role. Derek Simpson continues to be a bad shooter....3-10 fg today in only 19 minutes and people expecting him to take a leap at consistency after a really good game vs Nebby are mistaken. He is what he is. He will be effective against some teams but simply does not have the hops against the Illinois men. Mag who has been sensational and so consistent offensively for RU had an awful game. Might have been bothered by Illinois size and he never got into any rhythm and with him being the heart of the RU defense its no surprise the RU defense never approached elite level today. Woofolk just 13 minutes, 1-4 fg, only 1 rebound, active in garbage time. Just overmatched in league play. Chol 3 minutes..nuff said.

Onto Purdue at the RAC. RU has had great success vs Purdue in victory and defeat. Cliff has limited Edey as well. I expect RU to compete in front of a raucous RAC crowd. RU will have to have their absolute best shooting night of the season to pull the giant upset. The gap between the two schools is much larger than in the previous 2 seasons even as Purdue remains at the lofty perch at the top of the rankings. I know there were some clinging to some fantasy NCAA run and that they were not giving up on this team but without being Purdue, you can shut the door definitively on any possibility of that. RU currently has 8 losses and all the losses are to NCAA likely or bubble schools. The schedule lessens considerably after Purdue. Remember that. Thats is what Pike needs to be setting goals for in these games because instead of being overwhelmed, RU will have the ability to compete and win games vs the Michigans, Penn States, and Marylands of the world.


Emq4u9zXUAoGNmZ
Great report Bac. Tragic what we’re doing with Griffiths. We don’t have enough talent, especially offensively. Recruiting classes ranked 103, 99 and 69 the last three years will do that. Hoping for better days ahead.
 
Great game by Cliff and Noah. Looks like Noah finally got his sea legs back. Cliff finally playing free. Need better team rebounding. Especially with all the rotational help on D. Not sweating this one.
 
Illinois is really, really good, but the blowouts are so disheartening. Even in Pike's early years, we were famously battling and hanging in games. These second half 24-5 death stretches are miserable.
 
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Yeah, sadly, this game felt like many others this season. Just overmatched and not a lot of offensive options.
 
Illinois is really, really good, but the blowouts are so disheartening. Even in Pike's early years, we were famously battling and hanging in games. These second half 24-5 death stretches are miserable.


we have enough fight to be down 3 to Wake after being down 18, lead MSU after a bad start, claw back to be down 5 points 30 minutes in but we just do not have the talent to sustain long stretches of top play after that. Cannot fault effort even with the terrible last 5 minutes.
 
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we have enough fight to be down 3 to Wake after being down 18, lead MSU after a bad start, claw back to be down 5 points 30 minutes in but we just do not have the talent to sustain long stretches of top play after that. Cannot fault effort even with the terrible last 5 minutes.
It would be a lot easier if we didn't give up 15 to 30 point leads in every game. Also a talent problem I think.
 
Those count as shots as well.

We don't finish around the rim well

We don't shoot mid range well

We don't shoot the 3 well

It's shooting
It's talent. We don't do any of those things well because we lack talent. We need a significant infusion of (older) talent next year to help Ace and Dylan .
 
How did Pike let Rutgers basketball become a shit show again? One good recruiting year does not make up for several years of awful recruiting. And so here we are again in blowout city. Another lost year.
 
we have enough fight to be down 3 to Wake after being down 18, lead MSU after a bad start, claw back to be down 5 points 30 minutes in but we just do not have the talent to sustain long stretches of top play after that. Cannot fault effort even with the terrible last 5 minutes.
I don’t think it’s an effort and desire issue, I do think to some degree it’s a mentality issue. I think that’s reflected in the way RU starts games and how opposing runs seem to devolve into implosions
 
3 point shooting, 2 point shooting and free throw shooting all ranked in the 300’s nationally. It’s a shock we have 10 wins with those rankings. Yes, the loss of PM and Spencer hurt but this roster lays at Pike’s feet
 
How did Pike let Rutgers basketball become a shit show again? One good recruiting year does not make up for several years of awful recruiting. And so here we are again in blowout city. Another lost year.
Rutgers basketball isn’t a shit show, it’s having a down year. Since Pike took over every Big Ten team has had a year below 80 in KenPom except Michigan (maybe this year) Michigan State and Purdue.

That’s not to say he’s exempt from criticism, but if this is the threshold for shot show at RU Pike’s done a hell of a job
 
You are what your record/stats says you are.The record says Rutgers is woeful on the road.The stats say the defense is allowing too many points .The stats say there are too many long scoring droughts.The stats say Rutgers offensive efficiency is at the bottom of power conference teams.The record says Rutgers has a very small margin for error in order to achieve a winning season.

Fans have a split viewpoint looking forward.We hope the team can keep winning most of the remaining home games.We hope the team can win a road game.We hope the team can win a B1G Ten tournament game.We hope next seasons team with the addition of the five freshmen will win at least two NCAA games.
 
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JMike plays 26 minutes as a point guard and has no assists and it was a good experience because “he doesn’t have to be perfect?”

What????

That’s now two games where he had over 21 minutes and didn’t have an assist. If this is an audition for point guard he clearly is not passing. (Pun intended but true). Shooting not there either but finally hit foul shots.

Think maybe some inherent bias? Or unfairly praising JMike at Simpson’s expense. A neutral observer would certainly think so.

No comment on horrible officiating? A big factor in the game again.

Cliff was great and Hyatt was steady per usual. Mag, as much of a warrior as he is, has has way too many clunkers like this. Hurt us today.

Williams completely disappeared. Missed bunny to start the game and completely disappeared

Thought Simpson had some moments. Foul trouble difficult to get untracked. Five minutes less than JMike and still had some nice assists, three rebounds and a steal. Certainly didn’t go nineteen minutes without an assist. He wasn’t perfect but he doesn’t have to be? Still only a sophomore last time I looked. He took over games last year. Has JMike?

Oskar hit a nice three, had three rebounds and an assist. Nice game for him. Obvious that Gavin is simply just not strong enough.

For all the Fernandes bashers, like SHU, OSU and today, he rose to the occasion and had a nice game against tougher competition.

We play hard and never give up. Pike gets credit for that.

I want Pike to ride every ref for the rest of the year. If we are not going anywhere this year we have to set the tone for next year. We can no longer tolerate getting the short end of the stick and awful biased officiating against RU.
 
You can't win without guards.

Combined stat line today for Simpson/Davis/Fernandes/Williams: 23 pts, 8 rb, 3 ast, 2 stl, 5 tov

Thats a great game for a single shooting guard playing 35 min.... but it took four guys 80 minutes to compile it, along with 11 pfs.
8/24 combined, 1-4 from 3

4 guards combining for 4 three point attempts TOTAL is not how modern basketball is played

5 guards if you add Gavin's 0 3 attempts
 
Illinois is really, really good, but the blowouts are so disheartening. Even in Pike's early years, we were famously battling and hanging in games. These second half 24-5 death stretches are miserable.
I think this is a bit revisionist. Go take a look at the scores from an earlier season. Those teams got blown out. The difference was back then every time we didn’t get blown out it felt like a pleasant surprise.
 
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You can't win without guards.

Combined stat line today for Simpson/Davis/Fernandes/Williams: 23 pts, 8 rb, 3 ast, 2 stl, 5 tov

Thats a great game for a single shooting guard playing 35 min.... but it took four guys 80 minutes to compile it, along with 11 pfs.
Not to simplify things, but guard play is everything when looking at this team.
 
WTF are they doing with Griffiths? Will they just stop playing him and finish off the season that way? I said it over a month ago that this was a lost season. Gavin’s development should be the main priority of a positive takeaway for this season. When he sits all game and talks to Ogbole and Chol, I don’t see how that helps him get better as a player in the Big Ten. I don’t care if he makes mistakes, don’t care if he misses shots. Many others on this team miss shots and make mistakes. WE HAVE NOT BEEN WINNING. We are not likely to win a whole lot the rest of this season. If we were winning and Gavin was awful I would fully understand not playing him. We gave up 86 points today and lost by more than 20. Play Gavin, let him screw up, he will learn and get better based upon mistakes he makes now. JMike is getting tons of time this year, he’s been a nice surprise and will benefit from these minutes this year in the future l. Let’s at least give Gavin more minutes than Oskar and try to get a benefit toward the future with him as well.
 
They dont stink. They rallied and beat a peobable ncaa team vs Nebraska
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut.
They stink.
They have been down 19 to 15 points in every game against good team. I love that they rally back to make them close before losing. Teams that don't stink don't give big leads to the other team in every game.
 
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You can't win without guards.

Combined stat line today for Simpson/Davis/Fernandes/Williams: 23 pts, 8 rb, 3 ast, 2 stl, 5 tov

Thats a great game for a single shooting guard playing 35 min.... but it took four guys 80 minutes to compile it, along with 11 pfs.
This really is the bottom line. Our guards have not played well , shot well , assisted well , played defense well , ran fast breaks well , hit 10 foot shots well , hit a layup on a drive well nor get fouled doing it. Hard to win that way.
 
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Even a blind squirrel finds a nut.
They stink.
They have been down 19 to 15 points in every game against good team. I love that they rally back to make them close before losing. Teams that don't stink don't give big leads to the other team in every game.
Basketball is a game of runs. Sometimes a good team gets blitzed 10-0 or has a 14-4 start where they cannot hit anything. The other team matters. Iowa hitting everything early to take that lead happens, Ohio State hitting 9-11 threes in the first half but coming down to earth second half happens. Wake Forest going on 2 big runs happen because they played really well during those stretches. What has been disappointing is our defensive failures to allow those leads. Now there has been comebacks to get it tied or take a lead , Wake , MSU , or get it to winnable like Nebraska or close like Ohio State. That is basketball. Runs and sustained runs. We just are missing the firepower to sustain runs this year.
 
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Basketball is a game of runs. Sometimes a good team gets blitzed 10-0 or has a 14-4 start where they cannot hit anything. The other team matters. Iowa hitting everything early to take that lead happens, Ohio State hitting 9-11 threes in the first half but coming down to earth second half happens. Wake Forest going on 2 big runs happen because they played really well during those stretches. What has been disappointing is our defensive failures to allow those leads. Now there has been comebacks to get it tied or take a lead , Wake , MSU , or get it to winnable like Nebraska or close like Ohio State. That is basketball. Runs and sustained runs. We just are missing the firepower to sustain runs this year.
I get that runs happen in basketball. However, you can't give up runs every game that leave you down 20 points and expect to win many games. This happens almost every game, often in both halves of the same game.
This team does not have the talent to come back from multiple double digit deficits in the same game.
 
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I get that runs happen in basketball. However, you can't give up runs every game that leave you down 20 points and expect to win many games. This happens almost every game, often in both halves of the same game.
This team does not have the talent to come back from multiple double digit deficits in the same game.
Your last statement is just not true. We were down 12 in both halves against Nebraska and won. I get your general point or frustration with letting other teams get out to huge leads and not sure with our level of defense despite our shitty offensive droughts during games why that happens. Lack of focus , intensity. Frustrating as hell today as Illinois missed a number of their first 10 shots and got offensive rebounds which our guys somehow did not corral and they got 6 ridiculous second chance points. So instead of a tied game we are down 9 . I was absolutely pissed how bad our rebounding was to start the game. Illinois is the one team that we play that dominate the glass and it had to be a huge emphasis in the scouting report and the players failed
 
This really is the bottom line. Our guards have not played well , shot well , assisted well , played defense well , ran fast breaks well , hit 10 foot shots well , hit a layup on a drive well nor get fouled doing it. Hard to win that way.
Our guard D as a whole has been a stregth
 
Poor rebounding doomed RU. 46-32 disparity. Against a team of that caliber… deadly
 
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Even a blind squirrel finds a nut.
They stink.
They have been down 19 to 15 points in every game against good team. I love that they rally back to make them close before losing. Teams that don't stink don't give big leads to the other team in every game.
stink is they wont win any games or win 2 games

in the big ten this team will win at least 5 and as many as 7
 
I think this is a bit revisionist. Go take a look at the scores from an earlier season. Those teams got blown out. The difference was back then every time we didn’t get blown out it felt like a pleasant surprise.
You're right, six losses by 15+ in his first year. Feeling sad and reactive lol
 
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