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Nat'l COY award for anyone getting 5+ wins with this roster

Scarlet Shack

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Feb 4, 2004
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It's the roster guys

Period

Book on ash can't even be started to be written to year four when his first two classes (2017 and 2018) are juniors and Sophs...and still under experienced

Until then it's a total rebuild and it's about recruiting

And recruiting

And recruiting
 
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Absolutely rebuild. From scratch. Next year will be more of the same. Upward trend won't begin until at least year 3. If nothing by year 4, blow it up again.

At least everyone is saving money from no future bowl plans.
 
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

As I noted earlier:

If it was about coaching our 1st string D would have given up 21 points to their 2nd/3rd string O, the last 3 MSU drives, but they didn't. They shut them down cold while MSU was running the same exact plays they had the entire game. We were SO incredibly over-matched, 1st team vs 1st team, it was scary!
 
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I understand all this but what is the reason for the slow starts. Its not all talent what we are seeing. This coaching staff has tons to learn and will need offseason tweaks and changes

Bac

I am NOT, in any way, saying coach ash (and staff) is running a perfect coaching regime

The slow starts (especially on defense) is an issue and I can add more

But...you can't even make a real coaching analysis until he gets big ten athletes in numbers ....

Of Course ...if he can't recruit long term than, like flood, he is useless and not worth of a big ten job

So assuming he recruits reasonable well...it's fourth year until we have a chance to athletic line up with any semblance of a chance to compete ....

Then we will see if he can
1.) develop recruits to big ten players
2.) put them in a system to succeed

He may or may not be able to do both ...but until he gets some athletes...over three recruiting classes...then he is going to combat battle with sticks and stones when our opponents has body armor and m17s....
 
I understand all this but what is the reason for the slow starts. Its not all talent what we are seeing. This coaching staff has tons to learn and will need offseason tweaks and changes

That wasn't a slow start. That's the whole game.
 
Bac

I am NOT, in any way, saying coach ash (and staff) is running a perfect coaching regime

The slow starts (especially on defense) is an issue and I can add more

But...you can't even make a real coaching analysis until he gets big ten athletes in numbers ....

Of Course ...if he can't recruit long term than, like flood, he is useless and not worth of a big ten job

So assuming he recruits reasonable well...it's fourth year until we have a chance to athletic line up with any semblance of a chance to compete ....

Then we will see if he can
1.) develop recruits to big ten players
2.) put them in a system to succeed

He may or may not be able to do both ...but until he gets some athletes...over three recruiting classes...then he is going to combat battle with sticks and stones when our opponents has body armor and m17s....

It's why he is so calm on the sidelines usually. The kids try, usually are in position, just can't make a play when it matters. That's lack of talent. Can't chew a kid out for being slow and not blessed.
 
QUOTE="bac2therac, post: 2461742, member: 352"]I understand all this but what is the reason for the slow starts. Its not all talent what we are seeing. This coaching staff has tons to learn and will need offseason tweaks and changes[/QUOTE]

More talented teams TEND to score early, more often than not, on their lesser talented opponents. This isn't exactly anything new lol! Anyway let's take a look:

MSU Drive 1: 3-and-out
RU Drive 1: 3-and-out
MSU Drive 2: start on 42 take 4:30 to score TD
RU Drive 2: 2 plays 0 yards Pick-6
RU Drive 3 plays, 0 yards,
MSU Drive 3: start on OUR 48, 2 plays, TD

...so BAMM you're down 21-0 before you know it thanks mainly to awful punting and a pick-6.
 
It's why he is so calm on the sidelines usually. The kids try, usually are in position, just can't make a play when it matters. That's lack of talent. Can't chew a kid out for being slow and not blessed.

This is a REALLY important comment

Having watched every game twice through (and sometimes more)....I can't tell you how many plays we schematically (esepecially on defense) had played right that were not finished off because of simple lack of size,
Strength or quickness.
 
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It's the roster guys

Period

Book on ash can't even be started to be written to year four when his first two classes (2017 and 2018) are juniors and Sophs...and still under experienced

Until then it's a total rebuild and it's about recruiting

And recruiting

And recruiting

Ridiculous post.

You simply cannot blame all of this on the roster. We just got blown out by a team that has no wins in the Big Ten. Let that sink in. I am not saying this team is great. And I predicted four wins this year if things went well. But to say that we've been miserable this year due to the roster alone is simply not fair.

You have to also look at the coaches they have not done a great job in all areas.
 
It's the roster guys

Period

Book on ash can't even be started to be written to year four when his first two classes (2017 and 2018) are juniors and Sophs...and still under experienced

Until then it's a total rebuild and it's about recruiting

And recruiting

And recruiting
Sack I couldn't agree more. With that said however, I don't like Niemann at all. The man's schemes and play calling on defense has been very suspect all year. When we can't get to the QB with our front four then it's imperative to take chances with blitz packages for our LB's and secondary. I don't know if Ash ever intercedes or expects differently, but Ash needs to learn that his base defense will only work when he gets his type of players involved. I would have thought that knowing we were going to lose most of these games that Ash would at least have Niemann take more chances.

As for Mehringer, I like the kid, but I'm wondering if we need a seasoned OC. His play calling has been suspect throughout the year, even when we ARE moving the ball.

Would it be so bad if we saved the money by having Ash run the defense next year and we replace Mehringer with a seasoned OC?
 
This is a REALLY important comment

Having watched every game twice through (and sometimes more)....I can't tell you how many plays we schematically (esepecially on defense) had played right that were not finished off because of simple lack of size,
Strength or quickness.

Like not covering tight end in the end zone twice? Dbacks?
 
We cannot compare this to Flood, Flood was not even a coordinator and whomever followed Flood, was going to do significantly better in recruiting, the bar was so low in a comparison.....The question is are we playing/coaching/motivating and doing everything at a Power 5 level....that answer is clearly up for a debate, not an item to wait and see based on 3 to 4 years out....

We also had the same arguments regarding Eddie Jordan and basketball on how inept things were on the court (Myles Mack was too short to defend, not a true PG, Seagears this, Junior Etou that), and I was one of the same people stating that our kids in basketball were in charge of motivating themselves and having pride......I was wrong to place that much responsibility on the players and not the coaches.....

You have to have true leadership that can coach ALL types of personalities on your roster....right now Ash has only proven he can motivate and coach kids that fall in line with him, no questions asked.......what he does in the next two years with kids that may not buy in 100%, but have game day talent, is the question....There is no perfect roster of kids on and off the field.

Jordan had a staff of Shoes (former HC and good recruiter) and at times Okoren (not a college coach) and Van Macon (also a good recruiter).....it was clear to see the lack of communication between coaches during timeouts, lack of defense and lack of everything.....yes, that talent level was low, but it didn't require much to see it wasn't working or could be improved, even if it didn't mean significantly more wins than losses....it doesn't mean RU should have won more games but the margin of defeats was so alarming, that it signaled other things need to be looked at....some were in denial (myself included), especially with the lack of defense being coached).

We have to be careful about placing Ash and football in that same argument was in place about Eddie Jordan....the coaches are not communicating on the sidelines, there is no fire, no energy, misuse of the pieces in place at RB (still a mystery about how Sneed, Hicks are asked to run east and west and not north and south) and there are better coaches that can run a spread offense. Even the best coaches in the country, go and lean on other coaches to learn and evolve in the offseason.

Strictly speaking on the field, Ash can stay as the HC as long as people want, he is a good leader, but needs improvement there as well..... there has to be significant upgrades with the rest of the staff.....which is the exact same formula that I was looking to keep in place with replacing the defensive coordinator the last couple of years, if you weren't going to truly spend the money to make a real hire that mattered across the entire coaching staff...... You are only as good as your assistant coaches, the rest is window dressing.

We also have to address whether Ash truly values special teams as a 3rd variable of football.....we have no kickers scheduled to visit and even if we did score points, we are surrendering a short field, because our kickoffs are short.....we punt, it's also a short field....we are playing with one hand behind our back, because we can't recruit a legitimate punter or kicker....??? These are not extreme fixes, they all are a part of football.

There are too many variables beyond recruiting that it takes against elite competition of this conference...we can act accordingly and expect upgrades or just coast for 5 years and wait for the boatload of cash and try to rebuild then....in the interim, Ash has to be called out for these performances, it's just not acceptable by any stretch of imagination, especially with PSU looming in 7 days.....
 
No more talent excuses. Maryland is going bowling, Illinois is not terrible. I didn't expect to see a bowl till year 3, but there is more than enough talent to get more than 40 passing yards in a game. I don't know how people can shrug these performances off like nothing is wrong with the coaching.
 
Ridiculous post.

You simply cannot blame all of this on the roster. We just got blown out by a team that has no wins in the Big Ten. Let that sink in. I am not saying this team is great. And I predicted four wins this year if things went well. But to say that we've been miserable this year due to the roster alone is simply not fair.

You have to also look at the coaches they have not done a great job in all areas.

Not fair to call this a "ridiculous post" IMHO. Com'on now you and I argued a lot off the board, about Flood's recruiting, are you still refusing to admit how bad it was? Shack clearly follows up his OP with quick thoughts about the coaching, too. And how the hell are ya' brotha' been a while!
 
I understand all this but what is the reason for the slow starts. Its not all talent what we are seeing. This coaching staff has tons to learn and will need offseason tweaks and changes
This +1000. The talent here sucks, but those of you glossing over the coaching are pollyannas. The staff is inexperienced and has an awful lot of growing to do. Very tough position they are in. They are going to need a ton of rope . A ton.
 
QUOTE="bac2therac, post: 2461742, member: 352"]I understand all this but what is the reason for the slow starts. Its not all talent what we are seeing. This coaching staff has tons to learn and will need offseason tweaks and changes

More talented teams TEND to score early, more often than not, on their lesser talented opponents. This isn't exactly anything new lol! Anyway let's take a look:

MSU Drive 1: 3-and-out
RU Drive 1: 3-and-out
MSU Drive 2: start on 42 take 4:30 to score TD
RU Drive 2: 2 plays 0 yards Pick-6
RU Drive 3 plays, 0 yards,
MSU Drive 3: start on OUR 48, 2 plays, TD

...so BAMM you're down 21-0 before you know it thanks mainly to awful punting and a pick-6.[/QUOTE]


New Mexico and Howard and Minnesota too
 
We cannot compare this to Flood, Flood was not even a coordinator and whomever followed Flood, was going to do significantly better in recruiting, the bar was so low in a comparison.....The question is are we playing/coaching/motivating and doing everything at a Power 5 level....that answer is clearly up for a debate, not an item to wait and see based on 3 to 4 years out....

We also had the same arguments regarding Eddie Jordan and basketball on how inept things were on the court (Myles Mack was too short to defend, not a true PG, Seagears this, Junior Etou that), and I was one of the same people stating that our kids in basketball were in charge of motivating themselves and having pride......I was wrong to place that much responsibility on the players and not the coaches.....

You have to have true leadership that can coach ALL types of personalities on your roster....right now Ash has only proven he can motivate and coach kids that fall in line with him, no questions asked.......what he does in the next two years with kids that may not buy in 100%, but have game day talent, is the question....There is no perfect roster of kids on and off the field.

Jordan had a staff of Shoes (former HC and good recruiter) and at times Okoren (not a college coach) and Van Macon (also a good recruiter).....it was clear to see the lack of communication between coaches during timeouts, lack of defense and lack of everything.....yes, that talent level was low, but it didn't require much to see it wasn't working or could be improved, even if it didn't mean significantly more wins than losses....it doesn't mean RU should have won more games but the margin of defeats was so alarming, that it signaled other things need to be looked at....some were in denial (myself included), especially with the lack of defense being coached).

We have to be careful about placing Ash and football in that same argument was in place about Eddie Jordan....the coaches are not communicating on the sidelines, there is no fire, no energy, misuse of the pieces in place at RB (still a mystery about how Sneed, Hicks are asked to run east and west and not north and south) and there are better coaches that can run a spread offense. Even the best coaches in the country, go and lean on other coaches to learn and evolve in the offseason.

Strictly speaking on the field, Ash can stay as the HC as long as people want, he is a good leader, but needs improvement there as well..... there has to be significant upgrades with the rest of the staff.....which is the exact same formula that I was looking to keep in place with replacing the defensive coordinator the last couple of years, if you weren't going to truly spend the money to make a real hire that mattered across the entire coaching staff...... You are only as good as your assistant coaches, the rest is window dressing.

We also have to address whether Ash truly values special teams as a 3rd variable of football.....we have no kickers scheduled to visit and even if we did score points, we are surrendering a short field, because our kickoffs are short.....we punt, it's also a short field....we are playing with one hand behind our back, because we can't recruit a legitimate punter or kicker....??? These are not extreme fixes, they all are a part of football.

There are too many variables beyond recruiting that it takes against elite competition of this conference...we can act accordingly and expect upgrades or just coast for 5 years and wait for the boatload of cash and try to rebuild then....in the interim, Ash has to be called out for these performances, it's just not acceptable by any stretch of imagination, especially with PSU looming in 7 days.....

The comparison to EJ and staff is absurd, sorry Hawk. To compare any staff, let alone one that is already known to work its collective ass off, to that shit-show, do-nothing of a staff, is highly unfair and an insult to Ash and company. I have no idea where you're coming from with this buddy.

Also, per several posters here, Ash is heavily recruiting a very, very good local kicker. Not sure why you're saying he's not.
 
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The comparison to EJ and staff is absurd, sorry Hawk. To compare any staff, let alone one that is already known to work its collective ass off, to that shit-show, do-nothing of a staff, is highly unfair and an insult to Ash and company. I have no idea where you're coming from with this buddy.

Also, per several posters here, Ash is heavily recruiting a very, very good local kicker. Not sure why you're saying he's not.

He hasn't offered the kicker....what is the delay??
 
He hasn't offered the kicker....what is the delay??


I happen to agree with this. He must put a kicker on scholarship. He is actively recruiting the Bridgewater kicker Davidovicz. My assumption here is that he is trying to convince the kid to come here as a preferred walk-on, so he can save the scholly to recruit additional bodies for the defense.
 
I sit in 126 for the games right next to all the recruits. I was right next to a kid(I forget his name) from Bridgewater at the Indiana game that was a guest of RU and has interest from Pittsburgh and a couple of other schools. He told me the kicker from Bridgewater was coming to Rutgers. Let's hope so.

Best of Luck,
Groz
 
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