nigel johnson to virginia
- Thread starter KShore
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Hmm I guess a successful p5 program doesn't think Nigel is a "net negative" on the court. Go figure some of our know it all fans got it wrong again.
Is it possible that one program's bad fit is another program's risk worth taking? Look no further than CJ Gettys to find a player who seemed only marginally valuable at his old program, but more than proved his worth to the program he transferred to. This will be Johnson's third school. I'm not sure what conclusion to draw from that, but it's not typical.
Maybe he didn't fit the culture and/or program coach P is creating here, or maybe he wanted to go back to his home state. Maybe it's a combination of these or other factors.
It's April 10th. No one is right and no one is wrong. At Rutgers he was allocated minutes by default, at UVA he will have to earn every minute. If he doesn't fit and worthy of minutes he will be dropped from the program. Virginia is not making much of an investment here. By the time march 2018 rolls around i'd be very surprised to see him in the rotation.
Agreed. At RU he was pretty much competing against walkons for playing time. My guess he will be 3rd or 4th guard for Virginia getting 10-15 minutes per game.
I'm sure every player wants to go to the NCAA but I think they want minutes as well. Nigel might play a lot of minutes for Virginia but than again he might not. We will find out next season. Either way good luck to Nigel.
Perfect example of a fan talking when they don't know the actual issues surrounding a player's attitude in the locker room
Va is an upgrade in many ways. But I have a hard time wishing an exiting player "well" when they have said they would be back...and change their minds.
It was obvious to many on this board he & coach P were at odds a few times.
I am not sure anyone knows the actual issues. If you do know,,,feel free to share.
It was obvious to many on this board he & coach P were at odds a few times.
I am not sure anyone knows the actual issues. If you do know,,,feel free to share.
It's fine to shed players that are supposed problems, even if they are talented. But at some point you have to start replacing them with real players. Here's hoping that Pikiell can start doing that.
+1. And if you point out all the good things a transferring player has done, you are shouted down and told your opinion doesn't matter since your post count is too low.
Nigel Johnson was, in my opinion, our most consistent player last year. Losing him is a big deal and the fact that a major contender like UVA picked him up proves that point.
While he was one of our more talented players, he definitely was not one of the more consistent players.
There were clues that Nigels was going to leave. What player announces that they are coming back? With that said the coaching staff took him out of the starting lineup and put him in the dog house more than any other player.
What does that tell you about the coaching staff's desire to have him back for his senior year?
Mostly agree, except I think he did tweet late in the season that he was planning to come back next season.
I am not sure what it tells us, but what I know is we lost one of the only guys capable of scoring and the word on this board is we pushed him out. As Willis said I am fine with doing that if you want to upgrade, but as the weeks go by here it has become apparent there was no backup plan. If we don't secure a solid scoring guard for next season then Pike made an huge blunder (again if he encouraged him to leave). I am growing more and more concerned about Pike's ability to recruit which was my concern from day one of his hire.
Nigel Johnson is just not a fit for OUR program.
Yes he was capable of scoring
Yes he was our best perimeter shooter
Yes he potentially was our best on ball defender.
No arguments.
That doesn't change the inconsistent effort he gave. It doesn't change the fact that he has the same skill set as Corey Sanders. It doesn't change the fact that he needs the ball in his hands to score. It doesn't change the fact that he doesn't make other players around him better. It also doesn't change other potentially negative intangibles he brings.
All that being said the coaching staff had no interest in keeping him a Scarlet Knight. I understand and 100% respect and agree. this is about winning games in 2019, 2023, 2027 and beyond.
Yes he was capable of scoring
Yes he was our best perimeter shooter
Yes he potentially was our best on ball defender.
No arguments.
That doesn't change the inconsistent effort he gave. It doesn't change the fact that he has the same skill set as Corey Sanders. It doesn't change the fact that he needs the ball in his hands to score. It doesn't change the fact that he doesn't make other players around him better. It also doesn't change other potentially negative intangibles he brings.
All that being said the coaching staff had no interest in keeping him a Scarlet Knight. I understand and 100% respect and agree. this is about winning games in 2019, 2023, 2027 and beyond.
I'm sorry but this just isn't true. He was so much more fundamentally sound than Sanders, especially when it came to decision-making. He was also a much better perimeter shooter. I watched the games and know what I saw. Losing Johnson hurts the team badly in the short-term. I wish it wasn't the case, but it is.
2023 and 2027 ?
I don't even buy green bananas and you want me to look forward to 2023 and 2027 ?
I don't even buy green bananas and you want me to look forward to 2023 and 2027 ?
We will see. He has to make it to 2019. Let's see how patient the fan base is after winning 10 games next season and taking a huge step back. That is what we are facing without two or three additions that are true big ten players. We lose at least two other non conference games this year without Gettys. Add in a tougher out of conference schedule and next year can be a disaster. I hope Johnson was a menace in the locker room because that is the only justification. Somehow though I doubt that.
Thats the point. He has the same skillset as Sanders, and no one can say Sanders was better or even by an inch, but he did get treated differently.
That is probably one of the reasons he left. Plus, a lot of people thought he was too selfish to be on the team. If he didn't fill his stat quota, he was always upset.
Onward. Just saying, Sanders and Johnson were treated differently on the same results.
1st of all I am specifically referring to people calling him a net negative on the court. Please dont act like you know of the locker room issues other than what you read on these boards.
Sanders was also a true soph, and Johnson was a redshirt junior - with all things being equal, NJ should have been 1-2 years ahead of CS, but he really wasn't.
Their roles overlapped, CS has two years of eligibility left to NJ's one, and it seemed as though CS was responding to the coaching staff a bit better.
Would have liked to have kept him, but I'm fine with him moving on, too. Good luck at UVA, and let's look at who will be taking his minutes.
Some people seem to be jumping off the bandwagon because Nigel is leaving. The signing period doesn't even start for 8 more days and transfers can join at any time even through the summer. Nigel got 2 assists a game. He very rarely passed the ball in a good position for a guy to score. He was not as good a point guard as Corey was. I firmly believe that Coach will get us a decent replacement. Some keep expecting miracles to take place in a day or two. I have faith in Coach Pikiell and his staff. They are constantly working on trying to improve our team. I just wish the negatoids would try to be a little more positive.
Nigel had a pretty nice (and at times flashy) handle, was a streaky outside shooter who could go on really nice hot streaks, and also had a nice mid range game and showed an occasional floater. He was also relatively dialed in as a defender. He was and is definitely a nice basketball player. His skill set doesn't resemble Corey's at all IMO. Although he made adequate decision-making when deciding to pull up, the flip side is his decision-making when driving to the hoop was downright awful. He would more often than not get "hung up" and get blocked. He would break the rule you learn in Biddy as a 5th grader... don't leave your feet near the rim unless you have a plan.
Corey doesn't do that. Corey CAN drive. Corey usually is effective when driving, although at times he does take an out of control shot. But he rarely gets blocked. He is a VERY decisive and powerful slasher. Problem is he's not much of a shooter, as we know, although he did get more consistent as the season went along. Defensively, Corey was very dialed in all year IMO and unlike Nigel, Corey's defense would at times lead to a steal/swipe or a block or contested shot. His bigger frame seems to have helped, too. Although Nigel seemed dialed in and did a good job of "sticking"with his man, I don't recall him making a big impact defensively. Corey DID make defensive impacts.
So yeah, I don't see the skill set comparisons at all. Besides being similar heights and both being able to jump out of the gym, they are completely different players with differing skill sets IMO.
Corey doesn't do that. Corey CAN drive. Corey usually is effective when driving, although at times he does take an out of control shot. But he rarely gets blocked. He is a VERY decisive and powerful slasher. Problem is he's not much of a shooter, as we know, although he did get more consistent as the season went along. Defensively, Corey was very dialed in all year IMO and unlike Nigel, Corey's defense would at times lead to a steal/swipe or a block or contested shot. His bigger frame seems to have helped, too. Although Nigel seemed dialed in and did a good job of "sticking"with his man, I don't recall him making a big impact defensively. Corey DID make defensive impacts.
So yeah, I don't see the skill set comparisons at all. Besides being similar heights and both being able to jump out of the gym, they are completely different players with differing skill sets IMO.
He can drive and how reliable is his lay up when he takes it?Just about the exact same as Johnsons. Throughout the year, I would love to see numbers on Johnsons defensive game. I would say he was a better defender than Sanders. Sanders was not dialed in the whole year.
It is what it is. The program moves forward. My brother and I said from game five though that Johnson should have been getting more minutes. He was taken out at times when the game was on the line, and Sanders had no offensive piece in his arsenal that was effective at that time.
Sanders is a great kid. I think he will improve if he comes back. But I am not going to say he is head and shoulders, or any near the best on the team, with or without Johnson.
Nigel may end up seeing that Coach Pikiell is "Tony Bennett-lite". Plenty of player turnover at UVA. Not the easiest thing in the world playing for the NCAA's all-time best 3-point shooter. Demanding guy.
Rutgers transfer guard Johnson and Virginia each find the right fit
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rutgers-transfer-guard-johnson-virginia-204133333.html
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rutgers-transfer-guard-johnson-virginia-204133333.html
Agree, except that he is likely to be a spare part at UVA.
I expect that Nigel will give UVA a better and more consistent effort than he gave RU, for whatever reasons.
But I wish him well. He is a very talented player IMO.
attitude off the court (and even during games) factors into the net negative on the court. it has a definite effect on a team. are the ten points he scores worth him constantly butting heads with teammates or coaches? the team needs to all be working as one..that is #1. we have no chance if they are not. i really hope you dont think that overall attitude doesn't have any effect on chemistry during games. we have to fight too many tough battles against other teams...our coaches should not have to waste 1 second battling their own players.
Before any of this attitude stuff came up when it was reported he was transferring posters claimed he was a net negative on the court.
As with any transfer or recruit that does not sign here people feel its there duty to tear that player or recruit down and invent problems. Guess what Sanders and Freeman allegedly had attitude problems last year as well. You have no idea if anything that you wrote is true. You are just regurgitating the company line.
Finally I am not disputing the overall notion that attitude matters.
Feels like folks are overthinking this. Players with the ability to transfer as fifth-year seniors seem to do that more often than not just to experience something different. With Gettys, maybe it was the lure of a bigger role. With NJ, I just think he wanted to experience being on a winning team for his last year. Most players that know they can go from a rebuilding team to a perennial NCAA team would probably make the jump.
Easier to drive from the DC burbs of Maryland to Charlottesville than to P-Way. Waiter check please?
I think you are splitting hairs, they are both athletic 2 guards in the body of a point guard with an inconsistent shot.
this is where your post fell apart. i'm sorry that you cannot accept that there were issues before the transfer. but there were. you can feel free to not believe it but it just goes to show you dont have a firm grasp on the situation to many of the posters on here that do. the only one inventing something here is you in the form of painting nigel as anything remotely close to a positive team player.
Fans here are not aware or not able to separate someone that isn't team oriented vs talented...
There are countless examples of similar talented players that are net-negative or don't play within the team concept....the most recent example (not as bad as Nigel Johnson only caring about things when he played well or scored, or didn't care for the teams success), was Nebraska's star forward, Andrew White....he is a cancerous player that left or was shed from Kansas, landed as a transfer at Nebraska....then he didn't get along with folks there, despite being Nebraska's best player and decided to leave for his final season.
White had many suitors and landed at Cuse, where Boeheim has a more than difficult time dealing with White's moody play...there was one particular game where White took a few too many shots in the first half and then purposely didn't shoot the ball the 2nd half of the next game, even when he was open...he continued the lack of shooting into the next game down the stretch of a critical loss that broke Cuse's NCAA hopes.
Back to Nigel, he wasn't a team oriented player, but that doesn't mean he's not talented, or not capable of being a D1 player, he certainly is.....he's not the first NCAA me-first player and won't be the last one....for all the positives that he can bring to the program, there were more negatives off the court that were not worth discussing and he's Tony Bennett's project.....
I think he fits perfectly at UVA, because part of the reason for the mass exodus out of UVA's program, was Bennett's offense essentially was London Perrantes dribbling down the shot clock off a pick and roll and being forced to take a tough contested shot......No other consistent enough ball movement, unhappy UVA Cavaliers, and it showed immediately with tons of transfers out of the program that were upperclassmen.....mind you, UVA is a winning, NCAA program, a program that was in the Elite 8 2 years ago.....Nigel as a one year rental, is low-risk, high potential reward, as long as he gets his shots, playing time and scores consistently.....those are things Nigel can replace that Perrantes brought to the table the last 3-4 years.
For RU long term, I'd rather have Geo Baker play and learn through his mistakes at 20 minutes or more a game and to take and make the shots that Nigel took last year....can he be a better team oriented player...?? Yep......Can he score or shoot without having the ball in his hands....Yep.......is Baker playing more minutes this year, a better long term solution after the 2017-18 season for RU??....100% Yes....
If and when RU finds another 5th year player that helps balance the roster, Nigel's production will be offset....it's early April, check back on where the roster is in October/November....
There are countless examples of similar talented players that are net-negative or don't play within the team concept....the most recent example (not as bad as Nigel Johnson only caring about things when he played well or scored, or didn't care for the teams success), was Nebraska's star forward, Andrew White....he is a cancerous player that left or was shed from Kansas, landed as a transfer at Nebraska....then he didn't get along with folks there, despite being Nebraska's best player and decided to leave for his final season.
White had many suitors and landed at Cuse, where Boeheim has a more than difficult time dealing with White's moody play...there was one particular game where White took a few too many shots in the first half and then purposely didn't shoot the ball the 2nd half of the next game, even when he was open...he continued the lack of shooting into the next game down the stretch of a critical loss that broke Cuse's NCAA hopes.
Back to Nigel, he wasn't a team oriented player, but that doesn't mean he's not talented, or not capable of being a D1 player, he certainly is.....he's not the first NCAA me-first player and won't be the last one....for all the positives that he can bring to the program, there were more negatives off the court that were not worth discussing and he's Tony Bennett's project.....
I think he fits perfectly at UVA, because part of the reason for the mass exodus out of UVA's program, was Bennett's offense essentially was London Perrantes dribbling down the shot clock off a pick and roll and being forced to take a tough contested shot......No other consistent enough ball movement, unhappy UVA Cavaliers, and it showed immediately with tons of transfers out of the program that were upperclassmen.....mind you, UVA is a winning, NCAA program, a program that was in the Elite 8 2 years ago.....Nigel as a one year rental, is low-risk, high potential reward, as long as he gets his shots, playing time and scores consistently.....those are things Nigel can replace that Perrantes brought to the table the last 3-4 years.
For RU long term, I'd rather have Geo Baker play and learn through his mistakes at 20 minutes or more a game and to take and make the shots that Nigel took last year....can he be a better team oriented player...?? Yep......Can he score or shoot without having the ball in his hands....Yep.......is Baker playing more minutes this year, a better long term solution after the 2017-18 season for RU??....100% Yes....
If and when RU finds another 5th year player that helps balance the roster, Nigel's production will be offset....it's early April, check back on where the roster is in October/November....
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