Without even reading the article or reading any of the posts in this thread, it would be a god awful idea if UConn actually moved in that direction. UConn football is pretty much an embarrassment, but if they ever want a chance to join a power conference, they obviously can't afford to get rid of it. Do they think that the Big East in basketball would help make them money? Because I don't think it would. Think about the financial ramifications it would have on the athletic department if they closed up shopped on a fairly new football program that they have funneled millions and millions of dollars into -- stadium too.
Now UCONN writers are calling for leaving AAC and downgrading football
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Weren't we an embarrassment at some point before we got decent as a program? We were in UConn's shoes before with regards to football. Valery is a different story. I wish we had that kind of success on the court, but hey. I think that some of us have forgotten from whence we came. It was a struggle, and it still is.
The problem as I see it is that the longer Uconn stays in the AAC the steeper its decline in BB, whereas if they went back to the BE I can see them retaining a dominant program. If the BB program slides...then look out below.
If you are not a power five member you are in a football death spiral, more cost to maintain less revenue, plus you will not play on new years day ever. UConn to the big east for basketball and other sports is not a terrible idea. there is simply no chance at this point that they get invited to the power five party, so while it is probably correct to say without strong football there is no chance you get a power five invite, realistically being outside the power five simply means a slow death relative to football relevancy. You can choose to die a slow death or you can save gobs of money and pull the plug on football today and go back to what's left of the Yankee conference.
I thought the Mid-American Conference said they will only take schools who play football and basketball in their conference. They didn't want schools parking only football in the MAC (like UMass).
No, we havent. We can look around and see the cause of our success (large market in a populous state with lots of FB recruits, and a huge school with a large local alumni base) and recognize that UConn doesn't have any of that. It has succeeded in BB because you can do so with much less investment, and many fewer players.
Basically - what is a realistic path for UConn out of the whole they are in now. Remembering that at at time when they had a better conference, the best they could do was to get into the top 40 every three or four years, and they couldnt even stave off Maryland (clearly not a football power) from stealing their coach. Again - that was IN A BCS conference.
Meanwhile their BB will be in a conference that is even less favorable than the Big East is. Far away and not that good. Who is their rival in the AAC? Temple?
As for UConn getting invited to a power conference. Certainly they shouldnt downgrade to D1AA if they want that (and because its more lucrative to stay in D1A). But being in the MAC, AAC, or independent D1A won't make them any more or less desirable. If they get invited it will be for their non-FB sports, and for their location between Boston and NYC.
If UCONN BBall doesn't get out of the AAC they will die off. No one in the east cares when you play Tulane, ECU, SMU or USF.
The MAC, like HeavvenUniv said, isn't taking a FBall only member.
UCONN needs to bite the b*llet; drop to 1AA or go independent otherwise it will kill BBall.
*How do Independent FBall teams make TV money?
The MAC, like HeavvenUniv said, isn't taking a FBall only member.
UCONN needs to bite the b*llet; drop to 1AA or go independent otherwise it will kill BBall.
*How do Independent FBall teams make TV money?
Are there any Division 1-A independent football schools other than Brigham Young and Army ? Anyone moving up from 1-AA without a football conference ?
UConn got into the football business because of the old BE football. No way they make 1A commitment without it.
The problem with UConn football is simple. The state of Connecticutr does NOT have enough players to support UConn football at a high level. Period. They do not have a geographic home recruit base strong enough to support their program
This is the same exact problem SYRACUSE has...not enough upstate football players to support their program at the level.
When Syracuse was good in the late 80s thru the 90s...it was because they got LOTS of players from outside. Pa, NJ, and Florida. It was built on recruiting regionally (but not local) and nationally (florida especially)
UConn has the same problem...and does not have the tradition that Syracuse has
By the way, UConn basketball has the SAME problem...but they built their brand on a national level and recruit regionally and nationally. if they have to rely on New England and Connecticut players to be the bread and butter of their hoops program...trouble
The problem with UConn football is simple. The state of Connecticutr does NOT have enough players to support UConn football at a high level. Period. They do not have a geographic home recruit base strong enough to support their program
This is the same exact problem SYRACUSE has...not enough upstate football players to support their program at the level.
When Syracuse was good in the late 80s thru the 90s...it was because they got LOTS of players from outside. Pa, NJ, and Florida. It was built on recruiting regionally (but not local) and nationally (florida especially)
UConn has the same problem...and does not have the tradition that Syracuse has
By the way, UConn basketball has the SAME problem...but they built their brand on a national level and recruit regionally and nationally. if they have to rely on New England and Connecticut players to be the bread and butter of their hoops program...trouble
Their only hope is to get a marquee team to visit their stadium every other year, hope that UMass joins that ACC and gives them a real rivalry game that can be played on Thanksgiving weekend, form a scheduling alliance with Army and BYU to bring some "traditional and established" teams to the schedule, then hope that a team like Central Florida or East Carolina gets hot and becomes nationally ranked, bringing some buzz to a late season conference game. If those things don't happen, it will be hard for students and alumni to get excited about attending a game at Rentchler Field. As someone said, building a stadium many miles away from their campus in the middle of an abandoned airport really puts them at a huge disadvantage.
-Scarlet Jerry
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Wisconsin. Oregon, Nebraska cant grow their own players either but they recuit all over. UConn is just like other "basketball first" schools who just don't have it in their genetic make-up to devote resources to football. The conference wide version of that was the Big East. I read BE officials make comments about football as if they resented the distraction football inflicted on basketball as its main sport.
Yes, there is an element of Cinderella in our story but like the pretty girl with the bad clothes and crummy job, we had to shake that off to reveal our true attractiveness. In addition to what is cited above big school in big market (really important), we also had other things UConn never did including AAU.
Though often futile, a couple of decades playing teams that are what we now call P5,
As recently as the 2000 UConn was playing a decidedly I-AA schedule.
Least important, but the history going back to the very beginning of the sport didn't hurt.
People put way to much emphasis in a season or two's win/loss record in these conversations.
Though Prince Charming (Jim Delany) fit us with the glass slipper, and not Ms. Nutmeg, we had to have the foot to fit. We had some luck true, the Prince found us, but like the Coach says luck is the residue of preparation meeting opportunity.
Oregon is able to pour insane amounts of money into it and s right next to California. Nerbaska is a historic power. Wisconsin is probably living on borrowed time, but at least has a huge fan base going for it. UConn has none of that. Oh and its in a non-BCS conference.
If they cared about FB (And I agree I dont think they care that much), its not enough to put together more than an occasional 8 win team (before said coach gets poached). But I dont think being in the AAC helps or hurts that. Whereas being in the AAC in
As for TV - UConn would likely have to strike up a FB deal with ESPN/CBS Sports/FS1, and then have MSG/SNY/YES get the rest of the games. Not ideal, but probably not any worse puclicity wise than what they get as a last place AAC team.
They are certainly in a horrible position with the only "close" AAC rival being Temple.
The state basically gave them a free stadium & they built some nice on-campus practice facilities for football so I think at this point they try to wait it out as best as they can hoping that if another round of Conference Realignment occurs they can find a rescue boat.
If realignment does happen again, it's likely that the ACC will be targeted as both the B1G & SEC would like to add a Virginia & North Carolina school. This would create several ACC opening and UConn & Cincinnati are the most likely candidates to be added at that point.
Of course the risk is that there may not be any more realignment or it may not occur until the GOR get close to expiring. Then the issue becomes 1) can they wait it out financially making AAC money & 2) what do their athletics programs look like at that time?
They are not likely to accomplish anything football wise in that conference given that they will be competing with Florida & Texas schools who will likely recruit much better than them and hoops wise it will be very difficult to recruit the type of talent they have in the past to that conference schedule
The state basically gave them a free stadium & they built some nice on-campus practice facilities for football so I think at this point they try to wait it out as best as they can hoping that if another round of Conference Realignment occurs they can find a rescue boat.
If realignment does happen again, it's likely that the ACC will be targeted as both the B1G & SEC would like to add a Virginia & North Carolina school. This would create several ACC opening and UConn & Cincinnati are the most likely candidates to be added at that point.
Of course the risk is that there may not be any more realignment or it may not occur until the GOR get close to expiring. Then the issue becomes 1) can they wait it out financially making AAC money & 2) what do their athletics programs look like at that time?
They are not likely to accomplish anything football wise in that conference given that they will be competing with Florida & Texas schools who will likely recruit much better than them and hoops wise it will be very difficult to recruit the type of talent they have in the past to that conference schedule
Let's face it, there is nothing that UConn can do to improve their football situation right now. They aren't getting an invitation to a P5 conference any time soon, if ever. The AAC is unlikely to give them enough exposure for them to become anything other than an afterthought in football. There are no other non-P5 conferences which would have UConn and be any better than the AAC. They don't have a large enough fanbase or dedicated fanbase (like Army or BYU) to be successful as an independent. The home-grown talent pool in Connecticut isn't good enough (at least AAC schools like UCF and USF can pick up the scraps in Florida). And dropping to FCS would end up costing them even more money (there is a reason that schools like UMass move up to FBS).
The best that UConn can hope for for football is hope they don't slide into oblivion too quickly before the ACC looks to add another team.
But basketball is another story. UConn has a rich basketball history, built in the old Big East. But that doesn't meant that the new Big East is the right home for them.
They have no history with 3 of the teams in the new Big East (Xavier, Butler, and Creighton), and their history with DePaul and Marquette is no deeper than their history with AAC teams Cincinnati and USF. Plus their history with Providence and Seton Hall is fairly meaningless from a marketing perspective. So that leaves Georgetown and Villanova, and SJU if SJU can turn itself around.
Travel-wise, trips to Cincinnati to play Cinci or Xavier, or trips to Philadelphia to play Temple or Nova, are essentially the same. Flights to Omaha, Indianapolis, Chicago, or Milwaukee require getting on a plane, so it doesn't really matter if they are replaced with flights to ECU, USF, Tulane, or Houston. For 4 road games per year (SHU, SJU, Providence, Georgetown), they will have shorter trips in the new BE vs the AAC. Four games in an 18 game basketball schedule is hardly enough to switch conferences over.
Plus in the new BE they would be the only public research university in a conference consisting solely of small parochial schools.
So the only reason for UConn to switch basketball conferences from the AAC to the BE is if the BE provides better exposure, money, or opportunity for success. Today the BE is better than the AAC in all 3 of those areas. But you don't switch conferences for the advantages of today, you switch for which is better 5 years and 20 years down the road. And 5 years and 20 years down the road, I don't see the new BE maintaining its advantage over the ACC. I see the BE becoming a mid-major conference. For the reasons I mentioned earlier in this thread (declining attendance, poor TV ratings, and underwhelming on-the-court performance), I see the BE going into a downward spiral until it finds its equilibrium in mid-majorhood.
So if there is nothing to be gained from a football perspective, and nothing to be gained from a basketball perspective, why switch conferences?
The best that UConn can hope for for football is hope they don't slide into oblivion too quickly before the ACC looks to add another team.
But basketball is another story. UConn has a rich basketball history, built in the old Big East. But that doesn't meant that the new Big East is the right home for them.
They have no history with 3 of the teams in the new Big East (Xavier, Butler, and Creighton), and their history with DePaul and Marquette is no deeper than their history with AAC teams Cincinnati and USF. Plus their history with Providence and Seton Hall is fairly meaningless from a marketing perspective. So that leaves Georgetown and Villanova, and SJU if SJU can turn itself around.
Travel-wise, trips to Cincinnati to play Cinci or Xavier, or trips to Philadelphia to play Temple or Nova, are essentially the same. Flights to Omaha, Indianapolis, Chicago, or Milwaukee require getting on a plane, so it doesn't really matter if they are replaced with flights to ECU, USF, Tulane, or Houston. For 4 road games per year (SHU, SJU, Providence, Georgetown), they will have shorter trips in the new BE vs the AAC. Four games in an 18 game basketball schedule is hardly enough to switch conferences over.
Plus in the new BE they would be the only public research university in a conference consisting solely of small parochial schools.
So the only reason for UConn to switch basketball conferences from the AAC to the BE is if the BE provides better exposure, money, or opportunity for success. Today the BE is better than the AAC in all 3 of those areas. But you don't switch conferences for the advantages of today, you switch for which is better 5 years and 20 years down the road. And 5 years and 20 years down the road, I don't see the new BE maintaining its advantage over the ACC. I see the BE becoming a mid-major conference. For the reasons I mentioned earlier in this thread (declining attendance, poor TV ratings, and underwhelming on-the-court performance), I see the BE going into a downward spiral until it finds its equilibrium in mid-majorhood.
So if there is nothing to be gained from a football perspective, and nothing to be gained from a basketball perspective, why switch conferences?
I view this as their last and worst option. Unless you have a national following (ND, BYU, service academies), you can't make it as a FBS independent. You just can't. Who will televise their games? Who will give them a home game once the in-conference schedules start?
I think we would all agree that the Sun Belt is the lowest rung of FBS. Yet both Idaho and New Mexico State, both of which had a taste of independence (not of their own choosing), preferred joining the Sun Belt to remaining independent. And with good reason. Any port in a storm.
UConn's best play IMO is ride it out for another 10 years, and then join the ACC when it inevitably gets raided once the GOR expires.
Today, Dennis Dodd of CBS ran a story where the ACC is giving thought to going to 3 five team divisions, then picking 2 of the Div winners for their championship game. ACC currently has 14 teams, without ND being a full member. If ND declines to be the 15 team , then the ACC needs to add 1. In this story, Dodd says UCF, Cinn, UConn are potential winners as the 15 team.
Story
Story
I did like this:
Only a small number of schools - outside the northeast, unless you count BC and Rutgers - can boast both superior football teams and academic reputations.
But did the main part of the story strike you as another way for the B12 and the ACC to remain apart of the big boy table. B12 without a championship is stuck between being a real power 5 or a buffed up G5 school. The ACC knew better when they created the divisions, they should have did a better job of separating the power schools like Fla. State and Clemson into different divisions. That would increase the chances of the best 2 teams of meaning every year in the ACC championship. Btw, does the B12 commish really believe the rest of the leagues (B1G, Pac 12 and the SEC) are going to sign off on this knowing the others could possibly keep one of their championship playing team from reaching college playoffs. If the B12 and the ACC can't play by the same rules as the other power 5, then why should they be given special treatment.
I think the Big12 may get it's way with being permitted to have a championship game without having to expand to 12 teams. And I think the NCAA will (but feel they shouldn't) let the conferences decide themselves who plays in a conference championship game (ie. let the ACC pick who plays in their conference game, not who necessarily wins the divisions). I also think the NCAA will expand to an 8 team playoff within 3 years. Simply too much money being left on the table.
Originally posted by cubuffsdoug:
But did the main part of the story strike you as another way for the B12 and the ACC to remain apart of the big boy table. B12 without a championship is stuck between being a real power 5 or a buffed up G5 school. The ACC knew better when they created the divisions, they should have did a better job of separating the power schools like Fla. State and Clemson into different divisions. That would increase the chances of the best 2 teams of meaning every year in the ACC championship. Btw, does the B12 commish really believe the rest of the leagues (B1G, Pac 12 and the SEC) are going to sign off on this knowing the others could possibly keep one of their championship playing team from reaching college playoffs. If the B12 and the ACC can't play by the same rules as the other power 5, then why should they be given special treatment.
Sounds like a real possibility if Uconn doesn't get invited to the ACC. Their bread and butter is basketball. Playing Nova, G'town, etc in BB beats the hell out of Tulsa, Memphis, and East Carolina. The FB team can drop back to Div 1-AA and move to the Patriot league.The elephant in the room is the stadium in Hartford. You going to play Lehigh in front of 35k empty seats ? I think UConn will wait for the next round of conference re-alignment. if that fails, I can see this (moving to the B/E) as a distinct possibility. Buzz like this doesn't always happen in a vacuum.
Disagree...as 5 years ago, everyone would have said the same thing about Rutgers.
Only thing constant in college conf realignment is change...and odds are, change will occur again in the future and odds are, UCONN, along with others, will probably be looked at closely to join another conf.
Great point on how Syracuse use to build their program....as they were almost the #1 top destination for recruits in South Florida in the 80's and 90's that wanted to go play out-of-state. (Dome certainly helped attract FLA kids that wanted to play up north)..
But Syracuse lost that recruiting edge in FLA (dozens of other programs started to do the same...plus 4 schools in FLA joined Div I-A status), as the last time Syracuse won an out right conf title was 1998...which was the last time CUSE played in a major bowl game (1999 Orange Bowl, where they got dominated by UF).
Not many Div I-A recruits come out of New York State in any given year so CUSE has always had to look elsewhere for recruits...similar to what UCONN has had to do, especially since they moved up to Div I-A ball...which sometimes makes it more difficult to field a winning team.
RU has almost the opposite problem...as NJ has some top HS Recruits but RU gets so few of them as most sign with out-of-state teams.
This post was edited on 4/8 7:25 AM by Knight_Light
Five years ago in May there were newspaper reports that Rutgers was going to be invited to the Big Ten. Five years ago this time, there were reports saying that basically from a financial perspective Rutgers was the best team out there for the Big Ten. These weren't Rutgers writers. So your definition of everyone is significantly different from the actual everyone. The Big Ten has had its eye on us since they invited PSU in the 1980s (again - you can go read newspaper articles on this).
UConn might get into the ACC, if the ACC loses some teams (at which point it will actually become a P4). But why would being a D1A independent or MAC FB team make a difference vs being a losing AAC program?
It is wrong to consider UConn as part of the reason the conference disbanded. Let's not forget that the offseason following that Fiesta blowout was filled with the league wanting the football schools to subsidize Villanova's move to 1A and using a small soccer stadium as their home where they'd never generate enough revenue to compete. A league which was not generating enough TV revenue to sustain the members in the "college football arms race" had the league management pushing the Villanova anchor on those members. Then early in the 2011 season Pitt and Syracuse announced they are bolting to the A¢¢.
Probably because one can never predict exactly what will happen in the future.
Remember, this is the same school that won at least a share of 2 Big East Titles in just 9 seasons.
Agree with sherrane; watch Requiem for the Big East. BE was doomed from the start- the BE pundits called starting BE football "signing a deal with the devil". With that mentality it was never going to be a long-term viability (even though that still would have been my first preference- a strong, viable BE).
Joe P.
Joe P.
Which didnt get them into a P5 conference. Like I said - you shouldnt make your financial plans based on winning the lottery. UConn will get into a P5 conference for its basketball prowess and NYC proximity, not the off chance it has a top 25 season now and again in FB. Playing in a more relevant BB conference that has two NY area teams and plays its conference tourney in NYC is a straighter course than investing alot of money in a FB team that without a miracle coaching hire (not just a great coach, but one who really wants to be at UConn) to getting into the ACC.
Joe is right - the Big East was doomed from the start. As soon as PSU didnt join, that was the beginning of the end. The fact that they managed to keep it going for 30+ years was actually a bit of business prowess that is underappreciated. A FB conference linked to a BB conference, with its main FB teams in an entirely different region was bound to fail in some way or another.
This post was edited on 4/8 9:20 AM by derleider
What makes you believe that UConn can have any success as a 1A Independent? The only independents in 2015 are Notre Dame, BYU, and Army and all of them have national followings. Army earns less TV revenue than if they were in the AAC whereas BYU makes a little more.
Conference expansion could be over if CBS is correct that the ACC / Big 12 petition regarding Conference Championship Games passes. If the NCAA deregulates conference championship games, then the Big 12 can have one despite only having 10 members. The ACC wants to have their two highest ranked teams compete in their championship game regardless of division alignment, which means that conference divisions are no longer required. If this passes, UConn should probably consider downgrading their football program and rejoin the Big East since they are unlikely to ever get an invitation to a P5 conference.
What makes you think that they can be successful in the AAC.
UConn would certainly make MORE money in the Big East with independent football since the Big East BB teams make more money
Disagree baout expansion. THere was little chance the Big 12 was going to expand with or without the conference champinship. And even if they did, UConn isnt going to be one of the teams. Nor are any ACC teams. SO if UConn was banking on that, then they are dumb to begin with.
Their only near term hope is that the ACC a few years from now decides it needs to get more money from its TV deal and adds a couple of more teams to reopen that contract. The championship game deregulation would actually work in UConns favor, as you wouldnt have to go through crazy machinations to get divisions to match up to scheduling preferences (i.e. with 16 teams you don't need pods which switch divisions every year to match the schedule.) In other words, with no restrictions there are less things to worry about when adding teams.
But the real thing is in a decade or so when these GORs and TV contracts start to come to their end, and the Big Ten and SEC start to sniff around again.
UConn would certainly make MORE money in the Big East with independent football since the Big East BB teams make more money
Disagree baout expansion. THere was little chance the Big 12 was going to expand with or without the conference champinship. And even if they did, UConn isnt going to be one of the teams. Nor are any ACC teams. SO if UConn was banking on that, then they are dumb to begin with.
Their only near term hope is that the ACC a few years from now decides it needs to get more money from its TV deal and adds a couple of more teams to reopen that contract. The championship game deregulation would actually work in UConns favor, as you wouldnt have to go through crazy machinations to get divisions to match up to scheduling preferences (i.e. with 16 teams you don't need pods which switch divisions every year to match the schedule.) In other words, with no restrictions there are less things to worry about when adding teams.
But the real thing is in a decade or so when these GORs and TV contracts start to come to their end, and the Big Ten and SEC start to sniff around again.
I've made the same point -- with UMass -- at least six times on various threads in the past couple of years. Not that the American sucks as much in basketball as football (it doesn't), but you don't join a conference that spread out to play Tulsa and Tulane. You do it to play schools like Texas.
And while there is some cachet to some basketball matchups in the American (Cincinnati, Temple, UConn, SMU as long as Brown stays, Memphis some years), the casual sports fan never, ever will look forward to pretty much any football game the American can provide. And that's not a knock on any individual team; it's just that even a good year by most of them will be met by yawns.
De-emphasize football, not for some Dowling-esque reason but for common sense. You're a basketball school in a bad football recruiting ground in a bad football conference. Sure, play football, but play UNH and UMaine, not East Carolina and South Florida. And play basketball in a conference you helped start, and go back to playing St. John's and Providence.
It's not a snide remark about UConn to say that is where they belong, just reality.
But they wouldn't make any money as a 1A football Independent and would lose less if they dropped down to 1AA. Idaho is out of place in the Sun Belt just as Louisiana Tech was out of place in both the Big West and WAC. These schools joined these conferences because of the benefit they get from a conference membership. How many UConn games will get televised as an Independent and how much TV revenue will they generate? What bowls will sign deals with them? They'd be better off financially and competitively competing in 1AA and trying to make the playoffs than making 1A work as an Independent.
The Big 12 will eventually expand to 12 IF the ACC / Big 12 petition is denied. Having their champion play 12 games will always hurt them come playoff selection time when the other 4 P5 conference champions have played 13. Especially when their champion finishes the season playing 2-10 Iowa State or 4-8 Texas Tech while the other 4 conferences are having championship games featuring two top 15 (or better) teams. The old adage "it isn't how you start but how you finish" applies here when you talk about the beauty contest the playoff selection committee evaluates. The point I'm making is that the B12 could deny expansion publicly all they want, but that wouldn't change the fact they'd eventually have to do it in order to stop being the odd conference out of the playoff shuffle.
Earlier in this thread Abro1975 mentioned a Dodd article claiming the ACC will go to 15 if their petition is agreed upon. This is where I could be wrong about expansion being over, but I wouldn't doubt the ACC using Notre Dame as the 15th school and just scheduling them against the 4 teams in one division and then rotating the teams in those divisions every two years. But if the ACC does expand, UConn needs to be that 15th school. That would get them annual games against Syracuse and Boston College in football as well as annual basketball games against the Tobacco Road schools.
Anyone who's been to the Rent knows that the stadium just feels small when you're in there, like you're at a minor league ball park. And the crowd never gets really loud, I guess because the way it is designed doesn't tower over the field, but draws back from it. It feels intimate, but not in a good way (like the RAC where you're on top of the action), it just feels small compared to the major conference stadiums in the B1G, ACC, and even old Big East.
Not saying our Stadium is the greatest ever and the Rent is the worst, but when I went there in 2007 my first impression was "this would be a nice MAC stadium'. It's just too bland/ non-descript IMO. Concourses and sight lines were good though. I remember a few of their fans coming here to the '08 game and posting, 'I wanted to hate Rutgers Stadium but it was great'.
Joe P.
Joe P.
