This has 100% been discussed the last year or two on here. I'm sure I could go back and dig the threads up. No one really disagrees with the point.
One thing is painfully clear in the B1G..
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I agree with that.....but we did that with Jones and it seems like he wanted no part of the defensive side of the ball.
Penn State hung in there. They only had 1 guy with speed actually. Other shooters like Funk bad game. Iowa not “fast” just good shooters… who failed.
The question should be reversed.
What conferences are outperforming and then look at their dynamics?
What conferences are outperforming and then look at their dynamics?
Then you've missed a lot of threads. Every single time I stated the Big 10 is overhyped over the last 3 seasons, I've been met with dozens of angry and vitriolic posts lambasting my position. It's not until recently have most of these posters finally relented, of course without any apologies.
You can win many ways. It’s not about playing fast or slow. It’s about two things. Getting stops and making shots. RU was very competitive with Geo Baker and Ron Harper because of hey could make shots and the team always plays D. Michigan St won yesterday because they played tough D and makes timely shots.
This might be the silliest thread ever.
A) it is Pike's 100% responsibility to "sell RU, sell the B1G, sell the conference". It is completely dumb for anyone to say Pike should not say that. How do you think recruiting gets done, by Schiano or Pike saying the SEC is better??
B) The B1G has come up short because some of it is lack of guard play. But the item about a National Championship is kinda based on how mature or experienced are your rosters.
C) Then once you have a mature enough roster, do you have the ability to defend 1 through 5 and does your roster have the abilities to beat good defenders 1 on 1.
I keep seeing fans complaining about "RU needs to run an offense", but every consistently winning program, typically advances because of their ability to defend.
Any team that expects to win 4 games (Final Four bound) or 6 games, needs some lucky bounces with who you play to get there AND, can tour players make individual plays 1 on 1.
I won't waste the time of each and every National Championship team in the last 10 to 20 years. But in 95% of them, not only did you have a Top 20 to 30 type defense AND some of those top players could not just defend, they could also break down their defender and score.
It is more likely that you will have at least 10 NBA players across the 4 Final Four teams in most years. You need players that are not just "1 & dones", the ideal situation is you get a Kemba Walker for 3 to 4 years of college....a Jalen Brunson, Mikail Bridges and Josh Hart at Villanova for 3 or 4 years......Kansas last year had 2 to 3 players that are NBA kids, some played 2, 3 or 4 years. Same with Baylor 2 years ago.
The only item that is hurting the B1G in my opinion is the officiating on a whole, is terrible. It is definitely slanted towards those teams that are projected to be good and it gives those teams, Inflated records and seedings.
Then those teams get to the NCAAs and are not truly elite athletically and then the NCAA referees are not handing them foul calls like they did in the B1G regular season.
If the B1G can self correct themselves and not continue to prop up the teams that way, the evaluation of the league will change.
It's not a surprise that MSU advances to the Sweet 16, 60% of the time in the last 25 seasons (Sparty has advanced to 15 out of the last 25 NCAAs).....it's been a 1 seed, 2 seed, 4 seed, 7 seed, 8 seed....doesn't matter.
MSU recruits a roster designed to create depth over 4 months.....they sacrifice wins in the regular season to develop depth. They are looking to improve in February and March, when other teams are either peaked or out of gas by March
The B1G needs to recruit deeper rosters, if it wants to advance. Every team has quality 5 to 6 players or starters. Unless those players are 1st round NBA kids, you need 9 legitimate options and probably another 2 to 3, that can fill in, if an injury pops up. And MSU lost starters to injury for games, so it's here because it can defend, rebound and is well coached.
I think RU is on the right path towards closing those gaps. But do I think the B1G programs should ignore the talent in their own backyards in both sports?? Not realistic. Kids in Indiana, Iowa, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin are going to want to go to B1G schools.
RU just needs to keep building and it has the likelihood to break through much more than a Iowa, Purdue, Nebraska, Wisconsin in the long run, by recruiting the entire Eastern US and Southeast as well.
A) it is Pike's 100% responsibility to "sell RU, sell the B1G, sell the conference". It is completely dumb for anyone to say Pike should not say that. How do you think recruiting gets done, by Schiano or Pike saying the SEC is better??
B) The B1G has come up short because some of it is lack of guard play. But the item about a National Championship is kinda based on how mature or experienced are your rosters.
C) Then once you have a mature enough roster, do you have the ability to defend 1 through 5 and does your roster have the abilities to beat good defenders 1 on 1.
I keep seeing fans complaining about "RU needs to run an offense", but every consistently winning program, typically advances because of their ability to defend.
Any team that expects to win 4 games (Final Four bound) or 6 games, needs some lucky bounces with who you play to get there AND, can tour players make individual plays 1 on 1.
I won't waste the time of each and every National Championship team in the last 10 to 20 years. But in 95% of them, not only did you have a Top 20 to 30 type defense AND some of those top players could not just defend, they could also break down their defender and score.
It is more likely that you will have at least 10 NBA players across the 4 Final Four teams in most years. You need players that are not just "1 & dones", the ideal situation is you get a Kemba Walker for 3 to 4 years of college....a Jalen Brunson, Mikail Bridges and Josh Hart at Villanova for 3 or 4 years......Kansas last year had 2 to 3 players that are NBA kids, some played 2, 3 or 4 years. Same with Baylor 2 years ago.
The only item that is hurting the B1G in my opinion is the officiating on a whole, is terrible. It is definitely slanted towards those teams that are projected to be good and it gives those teams, Inflated records and seedings.
Then those teams get to the NCAAs and are not truly elite athletically and then the NCAA referees are not handing them foul calls like they did in the B1G regular season.
If the B1G can self correct themselves and not continue to prop up the teams that way, the evaluation of the league will change.
It's not a surprise that MSU advances to the Sweet 16, 60% of the time in the last 25 seasons (Sparty has advanced to 15 out of the last 25 NCAAs).....it's been a 1 seed, 2 seed, 4 seed, 7 seed, 8 seed....doesn't matter.
MSU recruits a roster designed to create depth over 4 months.....they sacrifice wins in the regular season to develop depth. They are looking to improve in February and March, when other teams are either peaked or out of gas by March
The B1G needs to recruit deeper rosters, if it wants to advance. Every team has quality 5 to 6 players or starters. Unless those players are 1st round NBA kids, you need 9 legitimate options and probably another 2 to 3, that can fill in, if an injury pops up. And MSU lost starters to injury for games, so it's here because it can defend, rebound and is well coached.
I think RU is on the right path towards closing those gaps. But do I think the B1G programs should ignore the talent in their own backyards in both sports?? Not realistic. Kids in Indiana, Iowa, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin are going to want to go to B1G schools.
RU just needs to keep building and it has the likelihood to break through much more than a Iowa, Purdue, Nebraska, Wisconsin in the long run, by recruiting the entire Eastern US and Southeast as well.
I'm talking specifically about the guard play angle.
The Big 10 is still one of the best conferences... Other than the Big 12 no one is deeper. But the top end teams who make the tournament struggle in March, no question.
The talent level in the B1G TEN this season wasn't comparable to previous seasons.On a scale of 1-10 the talent was no better than a six this season.Far too many teams lacked players that could create and make shots off the dribble.The end result was parity/mediocrity with so many teams with comparable records.Defense keeps teams in games but offense wins games.Low percentage in making 3 point shots was a major reason for so many games decided by less than five points.
The B1G had two top-4 seeds, so you expect 2 in the Sweet 16, we got 1. Not great but not some giant failure. If Purdue didn’t lose to a 17 seed every year the conference perception would be fine.
In this last round, the B1G teams had to go up against:
Big XII champion (lost) vs our 10th place
ACC champion (lost) vs our 2nd
SEC champion (lost) vs our 5th
Big East champion (won) vs our 4th
PAC 12 champion (lost) vs our 3rd
It was literally the B1G versus every other Power 6 champion!!
That is an unreasonably tough draw for seeding
In this last round, the B1G teams had to go up against:
Big XII champion (lost) vs our 10th place
ACC champion (lost) vs our 2nd
SEC champion (lost) vs our 5th
Big East champion (won) vs our 4th
PAC 12 champion (lost) vs our 3rd
It was literally the B1G versus every other Power 6 champion!!
That is an unreasonably tough draw for seeding
A
anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
Oh stop it. @Geo_Baker_1 said himself on his podcast that college players arent fatigued by the time they get to march.
These are kids who play a total of 30 games over 4 months! They played 5+ games a weekend throughout high school at aau tourneys.
Youre trying to make excuses for what is just an obvious thing in the big ten for 2 decades now. The big ten teams are big driven whereas in march aggressive guard driven play and teams that are capable outside shooters thrive. The big ten still plays ball like its 2003, not 2023.
NBA talent. The teams that win national championships have NBA talent. It’s really that simple. Sure there are other factors but the numbers all point to talent. NIL should help the Big Ten. IMO the Big Ten wasn’t paying enough $$ with bag men in the past and now it can be done above board so let’s see if the conference can start competing.
Most posters here have been critical of the B1G, and rightfully so. IMO, the key to success is explosive guards. Pike is starting to recognize it. Look how Pike is recruiting explosive guards like Simpson, Davis, and Warren. Guys who can still defend but torment the opposing teams when attacking them on offense. Rutgers needed these types of guards all along, but the lack of success drew little interest from guards of this caliber until now. Let's hope these types of guards shoot well from 3 because that's icing on the cake. IMO, Rutgers will expand their abilities to score more points without sacrificing defense like Iowa. This will help Rutgers to make the leap to the next level within and outside of the B1G.
Btw, Cam moved better without the ball to get easier shots when Simpson pressed the defense with his ability to get into the lane for his shot or kick the ball out for open shots. That's the dimension that has been missing from Rutgers.
Btw, Cam moved better without the ball to get easier shots when Simpson pressed the defense with his ability to get into the lane for his shot or kick the ball out for open shots. That's the dimension that has been missing from Rutgers.
The Big Ten likely has 3 one and done first rounders this year.
Ohio State and Mich didn't even make the NCAAs
NBA Talent for sure, but coaching, defense, mature guards who make shots - it's not one thing.
Where the hell has the SEC been most years? Not near the top. This year and maybe last year were breakout seasons for SEC, but let's not get carried away.
Agreed my daughter plays 3 games in day at AAU tourneys. The only time these kids get tired is if they are getting smoked in championship game. Once your down big in last game physically & more so emotionally it's tough to climb back. If these games were back to back to back would be alot easier but when you have to sit 2 or 3 games before firing up again it's tough. Tight game totally different story.
2022 NBA Draft
9 players from the SEC selected
9 players from the B1G selected
8 from the ACC
5 from the Pac 12
4 from the Big 12
1 from the Big East
9 players from the SEC selected
9 players from the B1G selected
8 from the ACC
5 from the Pac 12
4 from the Big 12
1 from the Big East
Big Ten Conference Players Drafted in the NBA - RealGM
Find a complete listing of all the Big Ten Conference basketball teams, on RealGM.com
basketball.realgm.com
That’s one year. If you look at NBA rosters the Big Ten is 5th in players per Big Ten team.
The Big Ten doesn't have a Duke and Kentucky - the outliers skew the numbers for those two conferences
Also - I should have quoted what I was replying to - the Big Ten is getting top talent now (maybe not 10 years ago) a least compared to the other conferences
Likely 3 one and dones in the 2023 draft
There is so much more to the story - top talent it getting spread out more, not just among P5/6 teams but all over the place. The secret sauce to winning in NCAAs is ever-changing.
I agree but the Dukes and Kentuckys are the ones piling up NCAA tournament wins and rings. If the Big Ten wants to win an NCAA tournament, then they need more NBA talent. Yes, there is more to the equation but teams can win with many different styles. There isn’t one way to win regarding how you play.
Sweet 16 and how they finished in conference
1) B12 Texas 2nd, Kansas St T3rd
2) B1G Mich St. 4th
3) SEC Alabama 1st, Tenn T4th, Arkansas T9th
4) Big East Xavier 2nd, Creighton 3rd, UConn T4th
5) MWC San Diego St 1st
6) Pac12 UCLA 1st
7) ACC Miami T1st
8) WCC Gonzaga T1st
9) American Houston 1st
10) CUSA FAU 1st
13) Ivy Princeton 1st
So basically bet on 1st place finishers except for the top 4' conferences who beat up on each other all season.
1) B12 Texas 2nd, Kansas St T3rd
2) B1G Mich St. 4th
3) SEC Alabama 1st, Tenn T4th, Arkansas T9th
4) Big East Xavier 2nd, Creighton 3rd, UConn T4th
5) MWC San Diego St 1st
6) Pac12 UCLA 1st
7) ACC Miami T1st
8) WCC Gonzaga T1st
9) American Houston 1st
10) CUSA FAU 1st
13) Ivy Princeton 1st
So basically bet on 1st place finishers except for the top 4' conferences who beat up on each other all season.
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Looking at the B1G OOC NET record as a conference during the regular season:
Q1: 15-22 (.682)
Q2: 11-8 (.579)
Q3: 13-4 (.765)
Q4: 76-3 (.962)
Looking at the B1G postseason so far (with MSU and Wisconsin still active):
Q1: 5-7 (.417)
Q2: 3-1 (.750)
Q3: 1-1 (.500)
Q4: 0-0 (N/A)
Q1: 15-22 (.682)
Q2: 11-8 (.579)
Q3: 13-4 (.765)
Q4: 76-3 (.962)
Looking at the B1G postseason so far (with MSU and Wisconsin still active):
Q1: 5-7 (.417)
Q2: 3-1 (.750)
Q3: 1-1 (.500)
Q4: 0-0 (N/A)
I don't listen to all of the other Big 10 coaches post game pressers regularly but of the ones I have heard, no one else seems to have this same responsibility to pump up the conference unsolicited on a regular basis like Pike does. It really gets old when it is used to push back against the clear evidence that his team is struggling by indicating all teams in the league go through this.
After a while I find it a little insulting to the listeners intelligence. You can promote your own team in other ways without banging the same speculative drum over and over. Maybe the answer is to stop listening to the press conferences. It just one softball question after another anyway.
There were a lot of similarly skilled teams in the conference this year. The top half of the Big East and B-12 seemed much stronger this year. The conference needs more schools making noise, being ranked in the Top 20 and getting to the sweet 16 in tournament.
Without out it you can’t adjust to other team styles like small crafty fast teams. Think the idea is we need more flexibility and better shooters. Simpson gave us the flex
Izzo is a smart coach. He is evolving Mich St. Howard has the tools to evolve Mich, but he may be his own impediment. Shrewsberry did well, but his lack of some size did in Penn St. You need some size, but you also need quickness/scoring. If Rutgers can hold on to Bailey and get Harper, we may be on our way.
That's basically the NBA style of play, which is an object of contempt on these boards.
We are on our way already.
2023s come to campus in June
Kinda funny right?
Penn State often ran their offense through the low post - also through their best player who wasn't a center.
Nebraska didn't run through the post at all, they just don't have good players
Iowa plays an NBA style and has athletic guards
Do people really think Purdue lost because they run so much of their offense through Edey? With two Freshmen starting guards?
I pulled the OOC NET records for the B12 and SEC, too.
B12
Q1: 15-15 (.500)
Q2: 14-5 (.737)
Q3: 17-1 (.944)
Q4: 61-1 (.984)
SEC
Q1: 15-27 (.357)
Q2: 16-9 (.640)
Q3: 25-6 (.806)
Q4: 78-3 (.963)
Texas A&M, Florida, Vandy, LSU, and USC went a combined 0-17 in OOC Q1 games.... the rest of the SEC went 15-10.
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