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OT: 2023 Rock and Roll HOF Nominations and Billboard's Handicapping of Chances to Make It

Knight Shift said:
And perhaps for me Joy Division/New Order, I have a blindspot. Blue Monday is a famous song, no doubt. But I struggled to find more than 3 or 4 songs that made them famous. Sure, the same can be said for Zevon. Like many things, particularly around art and music, these things are subject to debate and influenced by an individual's personal preferences and choices.
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I'm older than bac and I think I'm older than KS. Much of it comes down to what one likes and knows. I knew Zevon's early work pretty well, as I own the Excitable Boy and Bad Luck Streak in Dancing School albums (78 and 80) with Excitable Boy being a classic, IMO. Didn't like the other album nearly as much and, to be honest didn't really pay much attention to anything from him after 1980. I knew he did the Hundu Love Gods gig with REM guys, but barely recall any songs from that.

In comparison, starting in 1980, I became a huge fan of Joy Division (and then New Order after JD frontman Ian Curtis killed himself in late 1980 and NO formed) when I first heard "Love Will Tear Us Apart" (from their 2nd album which was released just after Curtis's suicide) which has to be one of the most influential dark rock/synth tunes ever recorded. In 2002, NME named it the greatest single of all time, while RS named it one of the 500 best songs ever multiple times. And I then went back and listened to their first album, 1979's Unknown Pleasures, which is fantastic and has been named as one of the best albums of all time by NME, Rolling Stone, AllMusic, and Spin (despite having no charting songs - it defined post-punk for a generation).

And then New Order took things in a more synth-pop direction with less darkness, but featuring more melodic, accessible songs and became much more popular in the UK and US. Songs like Temptation, Blue Monday and Bizarre Love Triangle became staples on alternative radio and in clubs worldwide, with Blue Monday becoming the biggest selling 12-inch single in history. Their influence on techno, rock, electronic and pop was immense. And while Love Will Tear Us Apart is probably in my all-time top 100 songs, New Order's Temptation is probably my favorite song. Ever. And the only one to be played at every Melody Reunion, lol.



 
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WhoseBusIsThat? said:
Iron Maiden are one of, if not the most influential and respected heavy metal bands since Sabbath. Don’t know if the r&r hof is the place for them but they are absolutely music icons.
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The RRHOF hates heavy metal and progressive rock. It took forever for Sabbath to get in. Rush got in 14 years after they were eligible. Both bands were toweringly influential,despite what Rolling Stone magazine and Jan Wenner think.
 
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RU848789 said:
I'm older than bac and I think I'm older than KS. Much of it comes down to what one likes and knows. I knew Zevon's early work pretty well, as I own the Excitable Boy and Bad Luck Streak in Dancing School albums (78 and 80) with Excitable Boy being a classic, IMO. Didn't like the other album nearly as much and, to be honest didn't really pay much attention to anything from him after 1980. I knew he did the Hundu Love Gods gig with REM guys, but barely recall any songs from that.

In comparison, starting in 1980, I became a huge fan of Joy Division (and then New Order after JD frontman Ian Curtis killed himself in late 1980 and NO formed) when I first heard "Love Will Tear Us Apart" (from their 2nd album which was released just after Curtis's suicide) which has to be one of the most influential dark rock/synth tunes ever recorded. In 2002, NME named it the greatest single of all time, while RS named it one of the 500 best songs ever multiple times. And I then went back and listened to their first album, 1979's Unknown Pleasures, which is fantastic and has been named as one of the best albums of all time by NME, Rolling Stone, AllMusic, and Spin (despite having no charting songs - it defined post-punk for a generation).

And then New Order took things in a more synth-pop direction with less darkness, but featuring more melodic, accessible songs and became much more popular in the UK and US. Songs like Temptation, Blue Monday and Bizarre Love Triangle became staples on alternative radio and in clubs worldwide, with Blue Monday becoming the biggest selling 12-inch single in history. Their influence on techno, rock, electronic and pop was immense. And while Love Will Tear Us Apart is probably in my all-time top 100 songs, New Order's Temptation is probably my favorite song. Ever. And the only one to be played at every Melody Reunion, lol.

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See below.
LotusAggressor said:
The RRHOF hates heavy metal and progressive rock. It took forever for Sabbath to get in. Rush got in 14 years after they were eligible. Both bands were toweringly influential,despite what Rolling Stone magazine and Jan Wenner think.
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That is a big sticking point for me and why the hell some of these bands are being named.
The same can be said for a lot of punk and alternative bands.

For example, why are the Sex Pistols in, but Black Flag and Minor Threat/Fugazi and Bad Brains not in?

Morrissey and The Smiths? Why New Order paired with Joy Division? Morrissey and The Smiths are hugely influential.

Adam and the Ants? Squeeze? Siouxsie & the Banshees? Devo? Television? The Jam? The B-52s? Simple Minds? INXS? The Replacements?

So many weird omissions of modern and alternative rock artists.
 
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Knight Shift said:
See below.

That is a big sticking point for me and why the hell some of these bands are being named.
The same can be said for a lot of punk and alternative bands.

For example, why are the Sex Pistols in, but Black Flag and Minor Threat/Fugazi and Bad Brains not in?

Morrissey and The Smiths? Why New Order paired with Joy Division? Morrissey and The Smiths are hugely influential.

Adam and the Ants? Squeeze? Siouxsie & the Banshees? Devo? Television? The Jam? The B-52s? Simple Minds? INXS? The Replacements?

So many weird omissions of modern and alternative rock artists.
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It's definitely hard to figure out their thinking on many bands, especially groundbreaking bands that were huge in the UK, but not very big here. I know some of it is how popular were they in the US, which is why I assume the Cure and Depeche Mode are in, while the Jam and the Smiths are not (especially the Jam, which was arguably the UK's most popular band since the Beatles) as all of them are "worthy" IMO.

The Replacements and B52s are at the top of my list of US bands that should be in from the alt genre, but I do kind of get Black Flag, Minor Threat, Fugazi and some of the others not being in, as they were truly fringe bands, even in the US (great bands, but fringe).

I am perfectly fine, though with the Joy Division/New Order combo, as there was no real "break" after Ian died, with the rest of the band moving ahead as NO, when they just as easily could have kept the name.
 
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RU848789 said:
It's definitely hard to figure out their thinking on many bands, especially groundbreaking bands that were huge in the UK, but not very big here. I know some of it is how popular were they in the US, which is why I assume the Cure and Depeche Mode are in, while the Jam and the Smiths are not (especially the Jam, which was arguably the UK's most popular band since the Beatles) as all of them are "worthy" IMO.

The Replacements and B52s are at the top of my list of US bands that should be in from the alt genre, but I do kind of get Black Flag, Minor Threat, Fugazi and some of the others not being in, as they were truly fringe bands, even in the US (great bands, but fringe).

I am perfectly fine, though with the Joy Division/New Order combo, as there was no real "break" after Ian died, with the rest of the band moving ahead as NO, when they just as easily could have kept the name.
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That's one of the greatest travesties of the "Rock" Hall of Fame is seeing a band like A Tribe Called Quest on the nomination list, while the bands mentioned above continually get passed over. Nothing against A Tribe Called Quest- Low End Theory is a fantastic album, but ask people in rock about them, and most will say who?

Will not go all Eddie Trunk (great metal DJ and host) on how they have treated metal and hard rock. Some of that detailed above, and while I don't care much for Iron Maiden, to leave them out while A Tribe Called Quest gets nominated is mind-blowing.
 
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Knight Shift said:
That's one of the greatest travesties of the "Rock" Hall of Fame is seeing a band like A Tribe Called Quest on the nomination list, while the bands mentioned above continually get passed over. Nothing against A Tribe Called Quest- Low End Theory is a fantastic album, but ask people in rock about them, and most will say who?

Will not go all Eddie Trunk (great metal DJ and host) on how they have treated metal and hard rock. Some of that detailed above, and while I don't care much for Iron Maiden, to leave them out while A Tribe Called Quest gets nominated is mind-blowing.
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Tribe is one of the greatest innovative rap groups of their era. It’s not rock and roll obviously but the fact they still call this whole sham “The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame” still is laughable itself. It’s a bigger joke now than the baseball Hall of Fame.
 
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MulletCork said:
Tribe is one of the greatest innovative rap groups of their era. It’s not rock and roll obviously but the fact they still call this whole sham “The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame” still is laughable itself. It’s a bigger joke now than the baseball Hall of Fame.
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I am not a rap expert, but I agree. Low End Theory is a fantastic album. The video for Scenario was my first introduction to Busta Rhymes, who was at that time in Leaders of the New School.


I had not realized (or perhaps forgot) that Phife Dawn passed in 2016. Was going to ask if there was a RIP thread, and indeed there was. Last post in the thread called for them to be in the RRHOF.

Wow...RIP Phife from Tribe

Only 45. Gone too soon. One of the best rap groups.
rutgers.forums.rivals.com rutgers.forums.rivals.com
 
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Kbee3 said:
I once worked with a guy and talked music with him all of the time. He was a big Phish fan. I told him that Trey was an excellent guitarist, but I didn't care for any of their stuff. He loaned me five or six of their CDs...and I gave every one a good listen. Unfortunately their songs...such as they were.....did nothing for me. I've always been unable to ignore the lyrics to a tune. Theirs were among the dumbest I've ever heard. It was like they didn't even try. And IMO their music was not interesting enough to overcome any of that.
That being said, I've seen Trey play with the Dave Matthews Band and the remains of the Grateful Dead and I know how talented he is. Phish just didn't seem to create any music that I'd wanna hear again.
I know they have a huge following that follows them around Grateful Dead-style. I have a nephew that did that for a while. They just don't appeal to me.
Cada loco con su tema.
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Interesting you say that because I feel like I could have written that post...I'm a big DMB guy and a few Phish friends have sold me on listening to them because they were sure I'd like them, but it just never appealed to me. I've seen Trey play with Dave Matthews and he's a great guitar player, but I'm just not a fan of their music (I also worked a few of their concerts and felt the same way about their live stuff, even though I'd also get the "well maybe you don't like the CDs, but you have to see them live", they just don't do it for me).
 
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Knight Shift said:
That's one of the greatest travesties of the "Rock" Hall of Fame is seeing a band like A Tribe Called Quest on the nomination list, while the bands mentioned above continually get passed over. Nothing against A Tribe Called Quest- Low End Theory is a fantastic album, but ask people in rock about them, and most will say who?

Will not go all Eddie Trunk (great metal DJ and host) on how they have treated metal and hard rock. Some of that detailed above, and while I don't care much for Iron Maiden, to leave them out while A Tribe Called Quest gets nominated is mind-blowing.
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I couldn't name one song by them
 
AreYouNUTS said:
Saw New Order open for Pet Shop Boys at MSG a few months ago…GREAT show…almost as good as Chic/Nile Rodgers opening for Duran Duran a couple months prior!!!
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Minor point, but this was their "Unity Tour" so they co-headlined, alternating openers. Sounds like a great show - saw both bands back in the 80s, especially NO (4X), as they were one of my favorites. Some people killed them for being "robotic" - I took it as top shelf professionalism wanting the sound to be perfect.
 
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All you kids with your damn rap music.

There's no science, really, to determining when the era of good music ended. But it's definitely ended.
 
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bac2therac said:
Not really...lasting artists are a rarity now...sure if you scour really hard you can find stuff but the days of rock and roll as part of the American fabric are over...started to go out in 96/97 and gone by 2012
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I agree that rock doesn't rule the world like it did before 2000, but I would argue that there's a ton of fantastic rock of all genres still being made and it's not that hard to find it (although a little harder than it was back then, when great rock songs were also top hits and played on top 40 so one got to hear them all over the place).
 
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RU4Real said:
More precisely, the real geniuses got old and died.

I always say you can tell the real geniuses from the poseurs because the real geniuses died after a good long life.

Shit, Buddy Guy is still touring. Think about that.
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I knew my son was going to develop seriously good taste in music when he "discovered" Buddy Guy on his own when he was 14 and played some for us. One of the cool things about the internet is the ability to easily discover so much great music, old and new - way easier than it was in our youth.
 
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WhichReligionIsRight said:
Warren Zevon and Willie Nelson definitely deserve to be inducted. Some of the others also belong.

Sheryl Crow has sold 50 million albums. She has a series of iconic songs from the 90's and early 2000's. 9 Grammie Awards wins + 32 nominations. Before becoming an A-list star, she sang backup for a number of acts, including Michael Jackson, Jimmy Buffett, Don Henley, Stevie Wonder, Rod Stewart, etc. She absolutely belongs in the HOF.

Leaving Las Vegas
All I Wanna Do
If It Makes You Happy
Every Day is a Winding Road
My Favorite Mistake
Soak Up the Sun
The First Cut is the Deepest
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You're kidding, right ?
THAT'S Hall-Of-Fame material ?
Please tell me...is it her vocals ? Her guitar ? Her writing ? Her live performances ?
I've only seen her on the Crossroads Guitar Fests a couple of times and couldn't figure what she was doing there.
 
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Thinking a bit more about this, two bands that are glaring omissions.

The Scorpions. First recording 1972. Have sold over 100 million records world wide. Iconic hits from the 1980s- No One Like You, Rock You Like a Hurricane, Big City Nights, Send Me and Angel. Winds of Change was an iconic song when the Berlin Wall came down-that single sold 14 million copies. They have a permanent exhibit at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They have never even been nominated. Huge WTF. But Cheryl Crow, New Order, Rage Against the Machine and The White Stripes get nominated?

Living Colour. Not huge album sales, but they had a presence on rock radio and MTV. Open Letter to a Landlord, Cult of Personality, Glamour Boys. Musically excellent.
 
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MulletCork said:
Tribe is one of the greatest innovative rap groups of their era. It’s not rock and roll obviously but the fact they still call this whole sham “The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame” still is laughable itself. It’s a bigger joke now than the baseball Hall of Fame.
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bullseyeloop.gif
 
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