OT: Alternative Energy

[RUGiddy777]

But the supply of methane derived from pork producers occurs without any drilling. It's going to exist unless the world goes vegan. If it's going to exist the using it is all good.

There’s not enough to remotely cover all of our needs. But this is actually considered renewable because it’s simply returning C02 to the atmosphere that was already there - pigs eat plants which captured CO2.

The problem is taking carbon that’s buried and putting it in the atmosphere.

 

[Rutgers NJ]

What do all plants , trees, grasses require to survive and thrive?
Co2…
Where does Co2 come from? Decaying limestone and crustacean shells and … wait for it…. Fossil Fuel…!
Are greenhouses:
A. Warm
B. Cold
Yes! Warm! Good answer…
What gaseous compound do greenhouse operators purchase and pump into the air inside their greenhouses to make the flora grow and thrive?
Co2
What else do plants need to thrive?
If you guessed water you are

correct!
Where does fresh water come from ?
Hint (evaporation) but from what source? If you guessed Oceans you win the prize! There’s a name for this process - Hydrolysis… it requires warmth….
Since we are presently living in the Holocene period that began about 11,000 years ago - also referred to as the little ice age - the earth is actually cooler than necessary for carbon based life to thrive long term…. Avg temps go up and they go down… There is actually a deficit of Co2 in the atmosphere- fortunately human activity is stabilizing the levels by consumption of fossil fuels… albeit at a much lower PpM level than the plant life would like….
So why all the fake Climate Crisis hysteria??? Does any of this make any sense - why would we want to cut carbon emissions??? We’re being sold a pile of dung…
Global Climate Change ideology is not based on science - it is a political movement designed to scare you into surrendering your Sovereignty, individuality, and separate you from your hard earned money to satisfy the power-lust of the political-corporate-media class….

 

[DanceAppreciationTA]

But the supply of methane derived from pork producers occurs without any drilling. It's going to exist unless the world goes vegan. If it's going to exist the using it is all good.

To add to the other comment ... the digesters produce biogas, you then have to upgrade it into biomethane or just methane. Once you have the quality of methane that can be injected into the grid ... well you then need the actual pipeline infrastructure to exist and that's a rare combination. It's better to use use the biogas for onsite electricity consumption and if there is excess sell the electricity back to the grid.

The interesting thing is that the digesters still output solids and oils for which sometimes there is little use ... so you then run into problems like this ... which the entire poultry industry is awaiting to be resolved and could have big ramifications

Inside the negotiations that led to Oklahoma’s 20-year case against several poultry companies

Oklahoma has blamed the chicken industry for polluting one of the state’s greatest attractions, the Illinois River.

www.oklahoman.com

And if anyone is in NYC, those shiny metal eggs near Greenpoint/Williamsburg are digesters!

 

[mdk01]

There’s not enough to remotely cover all of our needs. But this is actually considered renewable because it’s simply returning C02 to the atmosphere that was already there - pigs eat plants which captured CO2.

The problem is taking carbon that’s buried and putting it in the atmosphere.

Of course it's not enough to cover 100%. But covering 1+2% turning naturally occurring methane into CO2 is hard to beat.

 

[RUGiddy777]

What do all plants , trees, grasses require to survive and thrive?
Co2…
Where does Co2 come from? Decaying limestone and crustacean shells and … wait for it…. Fossil Fuel…!
Are greenhouses:
A. Warm
B. Cold
Yes! Warm! Good answer…
What gaseous compound do greenhouse operators purchase and pump into the air inside their greenhouses to make the flora grow and thrive?
Co2
What else do plants need to thrive?
If you guessed water you are

correct!
Where does fresh water come from ?
Hint (evaporation) but from what source? If you guessed Oceans you win the prize! There’s a name for this process - Hydrolysis… it requires warmth….
Since we are presently living in the Holocene period that began about 11,000 years ago - also referred to as the little ice age - the earth is actually cooler than necessary for carbon based life to thrive long term…. Avg temps go up and they go down… There is actually a deficit of Co2 in the atmosphere- fortunately human activity is stabilizing the levels by consumption of fossil fuels… albeit at a much lower PpM level than the plant life would like….
So why all the fake Climate Crisis hysteria??? Does any of this make any sense - why would we want to cut carbon emissions??? We’re being sold a pile of dung…
Global Climate Change ideology is not based on science - it is a political movement designed to scare you into surrendering your Sovereignty, individuality, and separate you from your hard earned money to satisfy the power-lust of the political-corporate-media class….

Other than plants consuming CO2, your post is completely incorrect.

 

[RUGiddy777]

Of course it's not enough to cover 100%. But covering 1+2% turning naturally occurring methane into CO2 is hard to beat.

No dispute on that - we also capture methane from landfills. All good things. The vast majority of what we use for energy production is still from fossil fuels though. As I mentioned above, natural gas has a future in hydrogen. Coal is probably better used in REE extraction than burning it.

It’s a little dated - renewables continue to trend lower as economies of scale and innovation continue to lower the costs, but there’s a good comparison on costs.

2H 2022 Levelized Cost of Electricity Update | BloombergNEF

The Levelized Cost of Electricity (LCOE) analysis is our assessment of the cost competitiveness of different power-generating and energy storage technologies across the world.

about.bnef.com

 

[motorb54]

So, all these solar panels in New jersey that have 3 to 6 inches of snow and ice covering them are producing how much energy?

My system yesterday produced 1% of what I used.
Today my system produced 3% of what I used. Will end up at 2% when day is done.
Without the snow it typically produces 70% in the winter.

 

[RUGiddy777]

So, all these solar panels in New jersey that have 3 to 6 inches of snow and ice covering them are producing how much energy?

My system yesterday produced 1% of what I used.
Today my system produced 3% of what I used. Will end up at 2% when day is done.
Without the snow it typically produces 70% in the winter.

But with net metering, what we’re consuming right now is effectively free. But good point on the need to have centralized generation along with distributed generation.

I exported almost 10 MwH last year. RECs and net metering will offset a significant portion of the financing.

 

[Knight177lb]

Here’s something for you. LCA is a GHG measurement that accounts for the full end to end. You’re absolutely right about steel requirements - but once those 240 wind mills are up, they no longer have emissions. That gas fired plant is producing emissions at generation and upstream in gas extraction. You may have fewer emissions up front (much like EVs vs. ICE), but over the long run they produce less. Also - because you don’t pay for wind, there’s no ongoing cost to consumers.

Life Cycle Assessment Harmonization

www.nrel.gov

Thank you for posting some useful information. That's what I was looking for. Natural gas is really high. I'm less skeptical now that GHG from windmills exceed natural gas powered plants. However, the article isn't clear when the calculation starts. I'm still skeptical that windmills are as low as they say. In another article, it says the calculation begins with the manufacture of equipment. Are they talking about when they start assembling the windmills? I want a calculation that goes all the way back to when they first blow up a mountain to get the taconite.

How Wind Can Help Us Breathe Easier

Learn how wind energy can provide health and climate benefits that outweigh its costs.

www.energy.gov

Also very low for GHG is nuclear.

 

[ashokan]

"A federal judge is ordering three companies to remove more than 80 wind turbines from an Oklahoma prairie. While it may be a setback for green energy production, it's a victory for citizens of the Osage Nation, which worked to remove the turbines from land they say is sacred. Allison Herrera from APM Reports has the story."
Just hit NPR tag for text

 

[fg7321]

Here comes Fusion....

Exclusive: Fusion reactor promises limitless energy

Fusion energy has long been hailed as the holy grail because of its potential for limitless amounts of clean energy. But that promise has trailed reality for decades, with billions of dollars in research leading to few breakthroughs. Now there’s optimism that is about to change, partly because...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[mdk01]

Here comes Fusion....

Exclusive: Fusion reactor promises limitless energy

Fusion energy has long been hailed as the holy grail because of its potential for limitless amounts of clean energy. But that promise has trailed reality for decades, with billions of dollars in research leading to few breakthroughs. Now there’s optimism that is about to change, partly because...

finance.yahoo.com

I've been reading fusion is 20 years away for the last 50 years. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[DJ Spanky]

The interesting thing is that the digesters still output solids and oils for which sometimes there is little use ... so you then run into problems like this ... which the entire poultry industry is awaiting to be resolved and could have big ramifications

So, since you posted this, I toured one of my company's refineries in March. One of our operations is a renewable business called SBR. As I understand it (and I haven't had a deep dive into it), we bring in used oils and other products and refine that into different types of diesel. We produce several different grades - I know that one of them is strictly for use in farm equipment, and that by federal law there's a red dye put in it to prevent it from being used by, for example, tractor trailers.

I've been reading fusion is 20 years away for the last 50 years. I'll believe it when I see it.

I've been a huge fan of fusion, studied it when I was a kid along with nuclear energy. The biggest initial hurdle has always been containing the plasma and the resulting heat when the fusion process begins. Once that hurdle is overcome (which I still believe they really haven't solved), then the next big hurdle is being able to harness that heat produced to transfer it to generation equipment.

 

[Southern Gentleman]

Just read an article a day or two ago about scientists discovering a method to generate electricity from humid air. Don’t remember where I saw it and even if I did too much of a fossil to post a link.

Arkansas would be energy independent if humid air is converted to electricity.

 

[mdk01]

Just read an article a day or two ago about scientists discovering a method to generate electricity from humid air. Don’t remember where I saw it and even if I did too much of a fossil to post a link.

Well if it were hot air D.C would rival Saudi Arabia

 

[mdk01]

Arkansas would be energy independent if humid air is converted to electricity.

Dominion Resources recenty sold their share of a joint venture with Smithfield Farms that generated electricity from "renewable natural gas" It was profitable . That may be an opportunity for the Razorback State

 

[dconifer]

So, all these solar panels in New jersey that have 3 to 6 inches of snow and ice covering them are producing how much energy?

My system yesterday produced 1% of what I used.
Today my system produced 3% of what I used. Will end up at 2% when day is done.
Without the snow it typically produces 70% in the winter.

I've had 48 solar panels on my roof in Washington Township since 2009. They generate more energy than I use, even with a pool filter and A/C all summer. I never pay an an electric bill (we do net metering, as described above).

It did take 7-8 years for the system to pay for itself. Not really a great investment; I just wanted to try it...

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

I have seen some stories recently about a new drilling technique that uses plasma or something instead of drill bits to drill the deep holes needed for geothermal. I wish I could find the video.

Ahh.. plasma bit drilling



Basic idea.. you need power to be made near where it is used. Otherwise you lose a lot in transmission.. as we do now.. especially with our old grid infrastructure.

And geothermal is largely beyond the reach of conventional bit drilling... gets too hot down there.. and yu lose a lot of time pulling the rig out to replace bits.

Plasma is slower per foot and a bit more costly, unproven yet, but can operate 24x7.. no down time to replace bits. And get get tot eh geothermal layer EVERYWHERE.

Iceland.. the geothermal layer is very close to the surface.. so they do geothermal a lot.

Yellowstone would be perfect too.. with conventional tech.. but it is forbidden (we should change that to test. Maybe it could power a brand new city near the park in Wyoming or Montana or giant new AI server farms built there.

Anyhoo.. I have always thought geothermal would be the ultimate answer.

 

[RUdonating]

I have seen some stories recently about a new drilling technique that uses plasma or something instead of drill bits to drill the deep holes needed for geothermal. I wish I could find the video.

Ahh.. plasma bit drilling

View embedded media

Basic idea.. you need power to be made near where it is used. Otherwise you lose a lot in transmission.. as we do now.. especially with our old grid infrastructure.

And geothermal is largely beyond the reach of conventional bit drilling... gets too hot down there.. and yu lose a lot of time pulling the rig out to replace bits.

Plasma is slower per foot and a bit more costly, unproven yet, but can operate 24x7.. no down time to replace bits. And get get tot eh geothermal layer EVERYWHERE.

Iceland.. the geothermal layer is very close to the surface.. so they do geothermal a lot.

Yellowstone would be perfect too.. with conventional tech.. but it is forbidden (we should change that to test. Maybe it could power a brand new city near the park in Wyoming or Montana or giant new AI server farms built there.

Anyhoo.. I have always thought geothermal would be the ultimate answer.

Check out Fervo Energy based out Houston. They're nearing commercialization / scaling of their technology. I believe they have received an LPO loan from the DoE

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Check out Fervo Energy based out Houston. They're nearing commercialization / scaling of their technology. I believe they have received an LPO loan from the DoE

Pretty sure that's the company I saw mentioned on whatever show I saw this on.. maybe a Nova or other PBS show? Some YouTube vid.. some people doing actual documentary-quality stuff there. They are going to do a real trial.. hole at least.. if not the whole system. Proof of concept.

RE: Yellowstone... it doesn't have to be any eyesore.. you can tuck it away behind a hill away from the pools, etc. Iceland uses the steam for heat as well as power.. ohhhh... if you just did power you'd still need high-tension power lines.. or buried lines.. to move power where it is needed. But Iceland has these huge pipe carrying steam a long way... well, if Fervo plasma drilling works out.. we'd have no reason to do Yellowstone.. maybe a smallish plant to power and HVAC the park structures and vacation towns near it?

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

I've had 48 solar panels on my roof in Washington Township since 2009. They generate more energy than I use, even with a pool filter and A/C all summer. I never pay an an electric bill (we do net metering, as described above).

It did take 7-8 years for the system to pay for itself. Not really a great investment; I just wanted to try it...

That’s a 12.5% rate of return. Not bad. Plus, free juice for the next 20+ years.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Anybody a fan of Why Files on Youtube? He posted a documentary vid touching Energy about a month ago.. he tends to present the history and theories.. and at teh end debunk what he can.. so you don't really know where he stands on the popular myths until the end. It is well done imo.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

That’s a 12.5% rate of return. Not bad. Plus, free juice for the next 20+ years.

a lot of places, like in Florida, Duke Energy has a strange deal where you put solar panels up.. they send energy to teh grid.. not your home.. they pay you pennies for it.. then charge you typical rates for what you use from the grid. And this is where you bought the solar yourself.. this is not them renting your roof and paying for everything.

Kinda bogus deal. You should get to use all the energy you produce yourself, then pay for the extra from the grid.

 

[dconifer]

I have seen some stories recently about a new drilling technique that uses plasma or something instead of drill bits to drill the deep holes needed for geothermal. I wish I could find the video.

Ahh.. plasma bit drilling

View embedded media

Basic idea.. you need power to be made near where it is used. Otherwise you lose a lot in transmission.. as we do now.. especially with our old grid infrastructure.

And geothermal is largely beyond the reach of conventional bit drilling... gets too hot down there.. and yu lose a lot of time pulling the rig out to replace bits.

Plasma is slower per foot and a bit more costly, unproven yet, but can operate 24x7.. no down time to replace bits. And get get tot eh geothermal layer EVERYWHERE.

Iceland.. the geothermal layer is very close to the surface.. so they do geothermal a lot.

Yellowstone would be perfect too.. with conventional tech.. but it is forbidden (we should change that to test. Maybe it could power a brand new city near the park in Wyoming or Montana or giant new AI server farms built there.

Anyhoo.. I have always thought geothermal would be the ultimate answer.

It's funny that an alternative energy like geothermal hasn't been tarred with the "liberal" brush, which results in hatred and skepticism by those who want to "own the libs" and can't make enough derogatory remarks about solar and wind power. I'm not really of any political persuasion, but I do get glared at by some when I mention my solar panels. I make up for it with my gas-powered lawn mower that badly needs a tune-up, which I know the other side is bothered by.

It makes no sense that methods of producing energy are categorized politically, but it happens. Hopefully that changes (yeah, right)...

 

[dconifer]

a lot of places, like in Florida, Duke Energy has a strange deal where you put solar panels up.. they send energy to teh grid.. not your home.. they pay you pennies for it.. then charge you typical rates for what you use from the grid. And this is where you bought the solar yourself.. this is not them renting your roof and paying for everything.

Kinda bogus deal. You should get to use all the energy you produce yourself, then pay for the extra from the grid.

Hard to believe anybody would sign up for that, especially when the customer made the investment. Yikes...

 

[rurichdog]

It's funny that an alternative energy like geothermal hasn't been tarred with the "liberal" brush, which results in hatred and skepticism by those who want to "own the libs" and can't make enough derogatory remarks about solar and wind power. I'm not really of any political persuasion, but I do get glared at by some when I mention my solar panels. I make up for it with my gas-powered lawn mower that badly needs a tune-up, which I know the other side is bothered by.

It makes no sense that methods of producing energy are categorized politically, but it happens. Hopefully that changes (yeah, right)...

Geothermal is always on. It is its own storage. It doesn't require oodles of mining and refining of finite minerals.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

a lot of places, like in Florida, Duke Energy has a strange deal where you put solar panels up.. they send energy to teh grid.. not your home.. they pay you pennies for it.. then charge you typical rates for what you use from the grid. And this is where you bought the solar yourself.. this is not them renting your roof and paying for everything.

Kinda bogus deal. You should get to use all the energy you produce yourself, then pay for the extra from the grid.

This arrangement is also how it works in California. My solar panels feed the grid and I still get my energy directly from PG&E. I don't like it either, but it is what it is. That still doesn't take away from the fact that my solar system paid for itself in seven years and I now get what amounts to free electric power from the sun. I think that it has been an amazing ROR.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

It's funny that an alternative energy like geothermal hasn't been tarred with the "liberal" brush, which results in hatred and skepticism by those who want to "own the libs" and can't make enough derogatory remarks about solar and wind power. I'm not really of any political persuasion, but I do get glared at by some when I mention my solar panels. I make up for it with my gas-powered lawn mower that badly needs a tune-up, which I know the other side is bothered by.

It makes no sense that methods of producing energy are categorized politically, but it happens. Hopefully that changes (yeah, right)...

Yeah, I hear you. But you may be surprised to see how robust many electric lawn/garden equipment are. Not to mention being easier on the ears.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Geothermal is always on. It is its own storage. It doesn't require oodles of mining and refining of finite minerals.

If this plasma drilling thing pans out we'll see what happens re: public awareness.

A cynic like me might think.. the people who are getting rich off "green" energy and the old guard who got rich off coal and oil will either have a huge investment in geothermal, and control of same, that makes up for the losses in other energy sources they might suffer or there will be an active campaign against it and will find a way to prevent its adoption.

Wind and solar and EVs are not clean in any way.. and the idea that "environmentalists" in government and NGOs are so vocal on the benefits.. well.. it is sad.. that they.. and the US Public in-general have been so played by the powermongers. ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

 

[fsg2]

Arkansas would be energy independent if humid air is converted to electricity.

Got some pretty nice systems that convert humidity to fresh water.

If this plasma drilling thing pans out we'll see what happens re: public awareness.

A cynic like me might think.. the people who are getting rich off "green" energy and the old guard who got rich off coal and oil will either have a huge investment in geothermal, and control of same, that makes up for the losses in other energy sources they might suffer or there will be an active campaign against it and will find a way to prevent its adoption.

Wind and solar and EVs are not clean in any way.. and the idea that "environmentalists" in government and NGOs are so vocal on the benefits.. well.. it is sad.. that they.. and the US Public in-general have been so played by the powermongers. ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

You were doing so well, then fell off a cliff.

 

[RUGiddy777]

It's funny that an alternative energy like geothermal hasn't been tarred with the "liberal" brush, which results in hatred and skepticism by those who want to "own the libs" and can't make enough derogatory remarks about solar and wind power. I'm not really of any political persuasion, but I do get glared at by some when I mention my solar panels. I make up for it with my gas-powered lawn mower that badly needs a tune-up, which I know the other side is bothered by.

It makes no sense that methods of producing energy are categorized politically, but it happens. Hopefully that changes (yeah, right)...

It’s also a fantastic option for the oil and gas companies to get into over the long term, which is probably why it hasn’t been tarred.

 

[RUGiddy777]

This arrangement is also how it works in California. My solar panels feed the grid and I still get my energy directly from PG&E. I don't like it either, but it is what it is. That still doesn't take away from the fact that my solar system paid for itself in seven years and I now get what amounts to free electric power from the sun. I think that it has been an amazing ROR.

I think it’s excess power that gets sold into the grid, which is the part he’s missing. You power your home, send excess back to the grid. Net metering is still a work in progress - the first two iterations in California were awesome for rooftop solar users, NEM 3.0 brings it a little closer to a system that balances the costs the utility incurs…perhaps too far.

I have rooftop in NJ, pay 5 bucks a month to PSEG for utilities costs. Haven’t done the NEM true up or SRECS yet.

 

[Zimm80]

Anybody a fan of Why Files on Youtube? He posted a documentary vid touching Energy about a month ago.. he tends to present the history and theories.. and at teh end debunk what he can.. so you don't really know where he stands on the popular myths until the end. It is well done imo.

View embedded media

One of my favorite podcasts , the goldfish I could do without but a little comedy never hurt anyone .

 

[pmvon]

this is the future or should be
mining for batteries is an economic disaster not withstanding the games that are played via mining utilization across the globe.

We need it all. Same as fracking and drilling for oil. SMrRs are great but costly and it takes time to implement. The aI boom may actually get it off the ground.

 

[Zimm80]

Anybody a fan of Why Files on Youtube? He posted a documentary vid touching Energy about a month ago.. he tends to present the history and theories.. and at teh end debunk what he can.. so you don't really know where he stands on the popular myths until the end. It is well done imo.

View embedded media

And every time someone comes up with an invention that could change the world energy wise , pollution wise, the military gets interested saying the invention somehow effects national security, then the inventor turns down a lowball offer to buy his invention , he then either dies mysteriously or disappears? or never mentions his ground breaking invention again, I’m sure there’s a warehouse somewhere similar to the one in Indiana Jones with prior ground breaking inventions collecting dust

 

[RUGiddy777]

We need it all. Same as fracking and drilling for oil. SMrRs are great but costly and it takes time to implement. The aI boom may actually get it off the ground.

I wish we’d make a law that required all new data centers to be 100% renewable, both to avoid the increased power cost and to give us time to responsibly deploy and regulate AI.

 

[RUGiddy777]

And every time someone comes up with an invention that could change the world energy wise , pollution wise, the military gets interested saying the invention somehow effects national security, then the inventor turns down a lowball offer to buy his invention , he then either dies mysteriously or disappears? or never mentions his ground breaking invention again, I’m sure there’s a warehouse somewhere similar to the one in Indiana Jones with prior ground breaking inventions collecting dust

The military has provided enormous innovation and scale to clean energy deployment.

 

[RUGiddy777]

We need it all. Same as fracking and drilling for oil. SMrRs are great but costly and it takes time to implement. The aI boom may actually get it off the ground.

Honestly, I don’t even know where I stand on nuclear. Today I’m all for it, based on potential. Tomorrow I could be against it for costs, time to deployment and risks. Friday I could be all in on nuclear again.

 

[fg7321]

a lot of places, like in Florida, Duke Energy has a strange deal where you put solar panels up.. they send energy to teh grid.. not your home.. they pay you pennies for it.. then charge you typical rates for what you use from the grid. And this is where you bought the solar yourself.. this is not them renting your roof and paying for everything.

Kinda bogus deal. You should get to use all the energy you produce yourself, then pay for the extra from the grid.

FPL has the political influence to make that happen