OT: Alternative Energy

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

But it started a conversation so…🙄

The way I see it now.. it really seems like whatever teh left screams about the most.. is just a way to justify the next huge government allocation of funds to be distributed among their support groups while supposedly addressing the "big problem" of the moment.

Example: Just found out why so few goverment-sponsored EV stations have been rolled out. Turns out the regulations of the fund access requires firms chosen to be used for construction to be minority owned.. no matter where they are. Furthermore.. there are regs about showing OUTREACH to minority populations that suggest spending money for block parties. It all seems about sending funds to community organizers in the minority communities... the DEM get-out-the-vote crowd.

 

[mildone]

The way I see it now.. it really seems like whatever teh left screams about the most.. is just a way to justify the next huge government allocation of funds to be distributed among their support groups while supposedly addressing the "big problem" of the moment.

Example: Just found out why so few goverment-sponsored EV stations have been rolled out. Turns out the regulations of the fund access requires firms chosen to be used for construction to be minority owned.. no matter where they are. Furthermore.. there are regs about showing OUTREACH to minority populations that suggest spending money for block parties. It all seems about sending funds to community organizers in the minority communities... the DEM get-out-the-vote crowd.

Still wasting time with the left/right mouse wheel nonsense. To be honest, I had you pegged as someone who would've extricated yourself from it by now. 🙂

I realized, the other day, that I'm coming up on about 10 years since I unplugged myself from the left/right political bullshit. Was somewhere in the midst of the Obama years. I hopped off the partisan mouse wheel and never looked back.

I don't want to sound like a reformed smoker, but I'm tremendously thankful I was able to extricate myself from that mess. There are just sooooo many better things to do with our time than dwell on totally meaningless political narratives.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Still wasting time with the left/right mouse wheel nonsense. To be honest, I had you pegged as someone who would've extricated yourself from it by now. 🙂

I realized, the other day, that I'm coming up on about 10 years since I unplugged myself from the left/right political bullshit. Was somewhere in the midst of the Obama years. I hopped off the partisan mouse wheel and never looked back.

I don't want to sound like a reformed smoker, but I'm tremendously thankful I was able to extricate myself from that mess. There are just sooooo many better things to do with our time than dwell on totally meaningless political narratives.

Oh.. I know the left has its allies on the other side. And that it all happens to serve the real movers and shakers. Just consider the defense industry elites.. there was a time when the RIGHT was what they manipulated to get what they want.. the big fear was worldwide communism.. the domino theory. Now they use the LEFT.. the goals are the same.. control.. power.. maintaining elite status of the elite families.

But that doesn't negate anything I said above. If anything, your response it is an effort to excuse the behaviors. But I think addressing and fixing the behaviors.. resisting them is how you break up the bigger game as well.

For example.. the say they want EV stations everywhere. Fixing these DEI issues might make those government funds go further in achieving that goal.. whether the goal is leftist idealism or not.

 

[dconifer]

Still wasting time with the left/right mouse wheel nonsense. To be honest, I had you pegged as someone who would've extricated yourself from it by now. 🙂

I realized, the other day, that I'm coming up on about 10 years since I unplugged myself from the left/right political bullshit. Was somewhere in the midst of the Obama years. I hopped off the partisan mouse wheel and never looked back.

I don't want to sound like a reformed smoker, but I'm tremendously thankful I was able to extricate myself from that mess. There are just sooooo many better things to do with our time than dwell on totally meaningless political narratives.

Same here, as you know.

Most in this thread and in our country still look at the color of the tag before deciding what to buy, unfortunately. I bugged out of this thread after a couple days...

ETA: In my view, if somebody finds himself constantly using terms like "left", righty", "Dems", "MAGA", "Trumpie", "Brandon", they are doing it wrong. I usually tune out as soon as I hear those flags in conversation, because it usually identifies a closed-minded, tribal thinker...

 

[e5fdny]

Oh.. I know the left has its allies on the other side. And that it all happens to serve the real movers and shakers. Just consider the defense industry elites.. there was a time when the RIGHT was what they manipulated to get what they want.. the big fear was worldwide communism.. the domino theory. Now they use the LEFT.. the goals are the same.. control.. power.. maintaining elite status of the elite families.

But that doesn't negate anything I said above. If anything, your response it is an effort to excuse the behaviors. But I think addressing and fixing the behaviors.. resisting them is how you break up the bigger game as well.

For example.. the say they want EV stations everywhere. Fixing these DEI issues might make those government funds go further in achieving that goal.. whether the goal is leftist idealism or not.

I knew what you meant.

The first time.🙂

 

[mildone]

Oh.. I know the left has its allies on the other side. And that it all happens to serve the real movers and shakers. Just consider the defense industry elites.. there was a time when the RIGHT was what they manipulated to get what they want.. the big fear was worldwide communism.. the domino theory. Now they use the LEFT.. the goals are the same.. control.. power.. maintaining elite status of the elite families.

But that doesn't negate anything I said above. If anything, your response it is an effort to excuse the behaviors. But I think addressing and fixing the behaviors.. resisting them is how you break up the bigger game as well.

For example.. the say they want EV stations everywhere. Fixing these DEI issues might make those government funds go further in achieving that goal.. whether the goal is leftist idealism or not.

I didn't say a thing about anybody's allies, left or right. I'm saying that when people talk about stuff in terms of the political left and right, they're wasting everybody's time. They're chasing each other around a mouse wheel.

Left or right, they spin all day long on the mouse wheel. People spin away their whole lives on the mouse wheel. But it's a mouse wheel, right? So nobody ever gets anywhere no matter how much they spin.

If you want to talk about an issue like energy, that's great. It's an important topic. But shed the whole left/right thing.

People can be serious. Or they can be political propagandists. But they can't be both.

 

[mildone]

Same here, as you know.

Most in this thread and in our country still look at the color of the tag before deciding what to buy, unfortunately. I bugged out of this thread after a couple days...

ETA: In my view, if somebody finds himself constantly using terms like "left", righty", "Dems", "MAGA", "Trumpie", "Brandon", they are doing it wrong. I usually tune out as soon as I hear those flags in conversation, because it usually identifies a closed-minded, tribal thinker...

I think people, left and right, get so brainwashed by their chosen media's way of presenting stuff, that they actually started believing the BS. All that left vs right stuff is utter nonsense. It's fodder for the mindless masses intended to drive voting behavior, nothing more.

It works 'cause humans are naturally tribal. But it's sooooooooooooo dumb.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

I didn't say a thing about anybody's allies, left or right. I'm saying that when people talk about stuff in terms of the political left and right, they're wasting everybody's time. They're chasing each other around a mouse wheel.

Left or right, they spin all day long on the mouse wheel. People spin away their whole lives on the mouse wheel. But it's a mouse wheel, right? So nobody ever gets anywhere no matter how much they spin.

If you want to talk about an issue like energy, that's great. It's an important topic. But shed the whole left/right thing.

People can be serious. Or they can be political propagandists. But they can't be both.

You are just wrong on the left or right thing. if a problem is associated with the left, why not mention that? If it is the left that is supporting the people responsible for the problem, why not mention that? Why pussyfoot around that part of the problem simply to claim some position in the middle?

The political element IS the problem. IMO. You have small special interest groups who all get behind eachothers schemes. Do you think the environmentalists really get all fired up for trans-"women" playing women sports? I doubt it.. but they will support it because it empowers the "left" as a power block and that will add leverage to teh environmentalists causes. And that is why I think identifying left or right is important.. more important than fence-sitting to with a pretense of being a moderate.

But , hey.. keep pretending that you never have to choose a side.. that you are above that all. Hope that works for you.

The Left.. The Right.. and "far" versions of both are just common nouns. What's so scary about that?

 

[e5fdny]

You are just wrong on the left or right thing. if a problem is associated with the left, why not mention that? If it is the left that is supporting the people responsible for the problem, why not mention that? Why pussyfoot around that part of the problem simply to claim some position in the middle?

The political element IS the problem. IMO. You have small special interest groups who all get behind eachothers schemes. Do you think the environmentalists really get all fired up for trans-"women" playing women sports? I doubt it.. but they will support it because it empowers the "left" as a power block and that will add leverage to teh environmentalists causes. And that is why I think identifying left or right is important.. more important than fence-sitting to with a pretense of being a moderate.

But , hey.. keep pretending that you never have to choose a side.. that you are above that all. Hope that works for you.

The Left.. The Right.. and "far" versions of both are just common nouns. What's so scary about that?

Again, I understood the first time. 😉

 

[mildone]

You are just wrong on the left or right thing. if a problem is associated with the left, why not mention that? If it is the left that is supporting the people responsible for the problem, why not mention that? Why pussyfoot around that part of the problem simply to claim some position in the middle?

The political element IS the problem. IMO. You have small special interest groups who all get behind eachothers schemes. Do you think the environmentalists really get all fired up for trans-"women" playing women sports? I doubt it.. but they will support it because it empowers the "left" as a power block and that will add leverage to teh environmentalists causes. And that is why I think identifying left or right is important.. more important than fence-sitting to with a pretense of being a moderate.

But , hey.. keep pretending that you never have to choose a side.. that you are above that all. Hope that works for you.

You’re not getting it. Nobody on the left cares what anybody on the right thinks. Nobody on the right cares what anybody on the left thinks. Given that unarguable truth, that ya’ll spend so much time pointing fingers at each other is a total joke.

Two echo chambers competing to see whose echo chamber can reverberate the loudest. ‘Cause that’s really important, solves lots of stuff, you know? 🤣

It’s hilarious that you think people have to choose a side. That’s completely wrong and illogical. People have to choose candidates in elections. But people are free to choose anybody they want for any election at any time, including people from either major party, any minor
party, or from no party at all.

Well, some people are free to do that. Others are so hopelessly chained to their chosen party/ideology that they their vote was decided for them by someone else long before the candidates are even announced. Which is a pathetically idiotic and un-American abdication of the responsibilities of citizenship.

Being unchained to anybody’s BS party or ideology leaves me free to vote however I wish. And yes, it does mean I am above mindless partisanship. It not only works for me, it works better for my town, state and country.

 

[dconifer]

You are just wrong on the left or right thing. if a problem is associated with the left, why not mention that? If it is the left that is supporting the people responsible for the problem, why not mention that? Why pussyfoot around that part of the problem simply to claim some position in the middle?

The political element IS the problem. IMO. You have small special interest groups who all get behind eachothers schemes. Do you think the environmentalists really get all fired up for trans-"women" playing women sports? I doubt it.. but they will support it because it empowers the "left" as a power block and that will add leverage to teh environmentalists causes. And that is why I think identifying left or right is important.. more important than fence-sitting to with a pretense of being a moderate.

But , hey.. keep pretending that you never have to choose a side.. that you are above that all. Hope that works for you.

The Left.. The Right.. and "far" versions of both are just common nouns. What's so scary about that?

What the heck is a "moderate?" Studying and then taking a position on each issue, one by one, without regard for what one's masters say, is not "moderate" or "fence sitting." It's the way this country is supposed to function.

People "choosing sides" and then going all in on whatever the masters of that side decree is how we've gotten into the mess that our country is in right now.

We should strive to think for ourselves on every issue. It's okay to be anti-abortion and anti-fracking. It's okay to be pro-solar and still think gas-powered cars are the answer. (By the way, I think you said this yourself with your environmentalists / trans-"women" sentence. It seems like we have the same outlook -- but yet, we don't. I'm still thinking that through to try to understand how we disagree on the big picture, given that sentence. I guess you are saying that one must throw in entirely with the side they choose, even if they secretly feel that half of it is hogwash.)

I'm sure you know that in the seventies most legislators were in favor of impeaching the president from their own party, and were about to do so. That's the way it's supposed to be. In the past, everything wasn't always 100% party line...

 

[dconifer]

Hopefully, since we always seem to be of similar mind, if Mildone and I ever met, he would not be repulsed by me, ha ha...

Seriously, I am hoping to make it to a Rutgers tailgate this year, and I think I would get along famously with every one of you. That's what I do. Please excuse the flag I will probably be wearing. I definitely wear more Rutgers garb than Maryland garb...

 

[mildone]

What the heck is a "moderate?" Studying and then taking a position on each issue, one by one, without regard for what one's masters say, is not "moderate" or "fence sitting." It's the way this country is supposed to function.

People "choosing sides" and then going all in on whatever the masters of that side decree is how we've gotten into the mess that our country is in right now.

We should strive to think for ourselves on every issue. It's okay to be anti-abortion and anti-fracking. It's okay to be pro-solar and still think gas-powered cars are the answer. (By the way, I think you said this yourself with your environmentalists / trans-"women" sentence. It seems like we have the same outlook -- but yet, we don't. I'm still thinking that through to try to understand how we disagree on the big picture, given that sentence. I guess you are saying that one must throw in entirely with the side they choose, even if they secretly feel that half of it is hogwash.)

I'm sure you know that in the seventies most legislators were in favor of impeaching the president from their own party, and were about to do so. That's the way it's supposed to be. In the past, everything wasn't always 100% party line...

In the past, most politicians spoke the party line in public but, behind closed doors, governed with reasonableness and compromise and pragmatism. Somewhere along the line, that’s changed and wingnut extremists (on both sides) have been taking over. And to the wingnuts, ideological purity is the only goal - governing is entirely about ideology.

I mean, people will read that and actually think “what’s wrong with ideological purity”. Which is insane. That’s how screwed up things are right now.

It’s a terrible thing for the country and it’s fueled by people’s moronic belief that their chosen “side” is somehow different, somehow better behaved, than the “other side”. The media gave up on pushing back with facts because partisans have zero interest in truth and are all in on the their tribalistic narratives. Facts don’t sell ads.

We’ve become a fact-less society ruled by tribalism.

 

[mildone]

Hopefully, since we always seem to be of similar mind, if Mildone and I ever met, he would not be repulsed by me, ha ha...

Seriously, I am hoping to make it to a Rutgers tailgate this year, and I think I would get along famously with every one of you. That's what I do. Please excuse the flag I will probably be wearing. I definitely wear more Rutgers garb than Maryland garb...

I get along with everyone as long as they have a sense of humor and don’t take themselves too seriously. I can get along with humorless folks too, but they don’t like me very much. 😀

 

[mdk01]

In the past, most politicians spoke the party line in public but, behind closed doors, governed with reasonableness and compromise and pragmatism. Somewhere along the line, that’s changed and wingnut extremists (on both sides) have been taking over. And to the wingnuts, ideological purity is the only goal - governing is entirely about ideology.

I mean, people will read that and actually think “what’s wrong with ideological purity”. Which is insane. That’s how screwed up things are right now.

It’s a terrible thing for the country and it’s fueled by people’s moronic belief that their chosen “side” is somehow different, somehow better behaved, than the “other side”. The media gave up on pushing back with facts because partisans have zero interest in truth and are all in on the their tribalistic narratives. Facts don’t sell ads.

We’ve become a fact-less society ruled by tribalism.

The media has a lot of blame for this as:

1. They (both sides) advocated ideology purity and

2. They put eyeballs and clicks as far more important than facts.

The two are probably related

I remember when Reagan and O'Neill compromised on social security and bought a generation for us to further act to solve the problems. The fact that essentially nothing has been done speaks volumes.

 

[dconifer]

The media has a lot of blame for this as:

1. They (both sides) advocated ideology purity and

2. They put eyeballs and clicks as far more important than facts.

The two are probably related

I remember when Reagan and O'Neill compromised on social security and bought a generation for us to further act to solve the problems. The fact that essentially nothing has been done speaks volumes.

Bravo, MDK01. As usual, I think you are spot on. Talking about compromise and doing the right thing for USA doesn't bring ratings for media outlets, right?

There couldn't be two people with more different outlooks than Representative O'Neill and President Reagan. Yet, as you already said, they worked together to solve a problem that worked out for everybody.

The difference in societal views between Representatives Marjorie Taylor Greene and AOC are not greater than the differences between, say, Senator Barry Goldwater (one of my favorites, and a so-called "conservative") and Senator George McGovern (a WWII bomber pilot, and a so-called "liberal"). Yet, they, and the likes of them, were able to put aside their differences, come to compromises, and move things forward.

Nice post, MDK01. I know I am but a flea on the butt of TKR, but I applaud your sentiments and always have...

Now I have to go cut the grass in Township before returning to Atlantic City, ha ha...

 

[DJ Spanky]

What the heck is a "moderate?" Studying and then taking a position on each issue, one by one, without regard for what one's masters say, is not "moderate" or "fence sitting." It's the way this country is supposed to function.

People "choosing sides" and then going all in on whatever the masters of that side decree is how we've gotten into the mess that our country is in right now.

Preach brother, preach!

 

[DJ Spanky]

Seriously, I am hoping to make it to a Rutgers tailgate this year, and I think I would get along famously with every one of you. That's what I do. Please excuse the flag I will probably be wearing. I definitely wear more Rutgers garb than Maryland garb...

Dear god, we'll need to alert the Middlesex County Sheriff's Officers!!!

You're always welcome to join us if you're ever at a game. The only caveat is that if you're wearing Syracuse gear I can't vouch for your safety.

I get along with everyone as long as they have a sense of humor and don’t take themselves too seriously. I can get along with humorless folks too, but they don’t like me very much. 😀

Oh, don't flatter yourself: no one likes you very much.

 

[mildone]

The media has a lot of blame for this as:

1. They (both sides) advocated ideology purity and

2. They put eyeballs and clicks as far more important than facts.

The two are probably related

I remember when Reagan and O'Neill compromised on social security and bought a generation for us to further act to solve the problems. The fact that essentially nothing has been done speaks volumes.

I don’t think you’re wrong about the media. But I also think the media is simply engaged in smart business. They’re giving the people, on both sides, exactly what the people have made clear they want, based on ratings.

It’s us readers and viewers that are responsible for pushing for more responsible, calmer, less hyperbolic media reporting. Problem is, everybody demonizes the other side’s media and gives their own side a pass. Which of course can never work since people not watching what they already weren’t watching has no effect on anybody’s ratings.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

What the heck is a "moderate?" Studying and then taking a position on each issue, one by one, without regard for what one's masters say, is not "moderate" or "fence sitting." It's the way this country is supposed to function.
...

That's nonsense and you know it. When you fill out your mail-in ballot (or thousands of them 😜 ).. you will be choosing sides. Or you can preach about being in the middle, never vote, never choose a side on any issue.

You know what "moderate" means... and you know what people CLAIM it means. You use this comment to make some esoteric point about the way the country is supposed to function? Nonsense.

In my opinion.. on this EV issue and specifically on the rolling out of government-funded EV charging stations.. the way the administration has been influenced by "the LEFT" (and don't rhetorically and disingenuously ask what "the left" is).. THAT is a problem. And calling that out is the first step to fixing that problem. And that does not mean that "the RIGHT" is never a problem or not also a problem on this issue.. but it is not the problem I chose to address with a comment.

Come to think about it.. you guys responding to me never addressed that point.. did you? You chose to preach about not being "left" or "right" and blah blah blah.

 

[mildone]

That's nonsense and you know it. When you fill out your mail-in ballot (or thousands of them 😜 ).. you will be choosing sides. Or you can preach about being in the middle, never vote, never choose a side on any issue.

One can (and should) always vote without choosing political sides. Unless you're a lemming, you vote for a person, not a party.

I sometimes vote for people in different parties in a single election. Which side am I choosing when I do that?

Voting because of a political party (which is tribal BS) or ideology (which is amorphous mindless tribal BS) is an abdication of the responsibility of citizenship. And requiring elected officials to stick to some particular ideology when they govern is unrealistic, and wrong-minded.

Politicians should be free to govern pragmatically, balancing immediate and future needs and conditions, most of which change constantly. Yet the partisan wingnuts in the electorate, on both sides (~80% of you now) insist that politicians stick to some BS ideological purity, defying logic and reality in the name of triablistic drum-beating.

It's insanity and it's a big part of why Congressional approval ratings are so laughably low, and why the party in power in the WH changes so frequently.

It's why we have a presidential election pitting Geriatric Joe against Felonious Trump. That those are the candidates for leader of the United States of America and we're not all losing our shit about it is an example of mass psychosis. If the electorate were to behave sanely, neither candidate would receive a single vote. We'd send it back to the two parties and tell them to grow the F up and find us some reasonable candidates.

 

[e5fdny]

That's nonsense and you know it. When you fill out your mail-in ballot (or thousands of them 😜 ).. you will be choosing sides. Or you can preach about being in the middle, never vote, never choose a side on any issue.

You know what "moderate" means... and you know what people CLAIM it means. You use this comment to make some esoteric point about the way the country is supposed to function? Nonsense.

In my opinion.. on this EV issue and specifically on the rolling out of government-funded EV charging stations.. the way the administration has been influenced by "the LEFT" (and don't rhetorically and disingenuously ask what "the left" is).. THAT is a problem. And calling that out is the first step to fixing that problem. And that does not mean that "the RIGHT" is never a problem or not also a problem on this issue.. but it is not the problem I chose to address with a comment.

Come to think about it.. you guys responding to me never addressed that point.. did you? You chose to preach about not being "left" or "right" and blah blah blah.

Whomever plans to do the best job in the industry should get the job.

Not because they check a box.

 

[mildone]

Whomever plans to do the best job in the industry should get the job.

Not because they check a box.

That's right. That's how things should work. And how things should've worked all along.

But they never worked that way. Not anywhere, really.

As for here in the United States, the only new thing with box-checking is that there are now multiple boxes being checked instead of just the one. And the people who were represented by the one box have all of sudden discovered how much they dislike box checking.

Funny how that works.

 

[dconifer]

That's nonsense and you know it. When you fill out your mail-in ballot (or thousands of them 😜 ).. you will be choosing sides. Or you can preach about being in the middle, never vote, never choose a side on any issue.

You know what "moderate" means... and you know what people CLAIM it means. You use this comment to make some esoteric point about the way the country is supposed to function? Nonsense.

In my opinion.. on this EV issue and specifically on the rolling out of government-funded EV charging stations.. the way the administration has been influenced by "the LEFT" (and don't rhetorically and disingenuously ask what "the left" is).. THAT is a problem. And calling that out is the first step to fixing that problem. And that does not mean that "the RIGHT" is never a problem or not also a problem on this issue.. but it is not the problem I chose to address with a comment.

Come to think about it.. you guys responding to me never addressed that point.. did you? You chose to preach about not being "left" or "right" and blah blah blah.

With all due respect, I don't preach about being in "the middle." I'm not in the middle; my views are as extreme as anybody's. I vote, and I choose a side on EVERY issue. The difference is that I decide issue by issue.

For instance, I love alternative energy and have gone 100% solar at my TWP house (not AC). On the other hand, I think we may be forcing a conversion to electric vehicles more aggressively than we should. My truck burns gas to the tune of 20 mpg in the summer and 19 in the winter, which isn't very good, but I'm okay with it. See? I'm a "lefty" and a "righty" at the same time.

I don't know what a "moderate" is. I doubt there are any people out there trying to distribute their opinions evenly between the two extremes so that they can say they are "moderate." I would honestly like to know what the term means to you.

It bums me out that you think its an "esoteric point" that people are supposed to consider issues and make their own decisions. I suspect that you don't mean it the way I took it.

Good discussion, I appreciate your comments...

 

[dconifer]

Dear god, we'll need to alert the Middlesex County Sheriff's Officers!!!

You're always welcome to join us if you're ever at a game. The only caveat is that if you're wearing Syracuse gear I can't vouch for your safety.

Oh, don't flatter yourself: no one likes you very much.

Ha ha, I don't have the attitude you guys have about Syracuse, but I assure that I don't have any Syracuse clothing.

I will have to study up on where to park and where all the tailgates are. I'll probably end up over near my son's Busch campus dorm and have to hoof it, for all I know. The closest I ever parked to the stadium was in some field, for graduation. But I'm really hoping to get up there. I'm a bandwagon fan, I know they're going to be good this year.

 

[e5fdny]

That's right. That's how things should work. And how things should've worked all along.

But they never worked that way. Not anywhere, really.

As for here in the United States, the only new thing with box-checking is that there are now multiple boxes being checked instead of just the one. And the people who were represented by the one box have all of sudden discovered how much they dislike box checking.

Funny how that works.

Sure they did.

The people who have deal with it downstream are the ones who dislike it the most. Because it affects them the most.

 

[mildone]

The people who have deal with it downstream are the ones who dislike it the most. Because it affects them the most.

Yeah, of course - that's always how it works. That hasn't changed either. It's not a new or recent phenomenon that people in jobs they're not qualified to do cause harm to others. It's also not a phenomenon tied to any political side or race or religion or other grouping, despite all the mindless populist narratives.

A perfect widely visible example is how Trump and Biden are both quite obviously unqualified and unfit to lead this nation or the world and yet one of them will be elected president again. Tons of people will vote for one or the other for no reason other than that they see it as the correct box to check. Many will happily delude themselves into defending their candidate's fitness. It's nuts.

How can anybody from either party vote for either candidate and then complain about others checking a box rather than going with a qualified person? I think people, instead of demonizing some local government official they think is a checked-box employee, might want to look in the mirror and consider their own actions and choices instead. Except they won't.

Because everybody truly believes their shit doesn't stink with this stuff. The flies around us all says otherwise. The narratives reek of selectively applied judgment.

Ain't nothing getting better while people refuse to fix their own house.

 

[e5fdny]

Yeah, of course - that's always how it works. That hasn't changed either. It's not a new or recent phenomenon that people in jobs they're not qualified to do cause harm to others. It's also not a phenomenon tied to any political side or race or religion or other grouping, despite all the mindless populist narratives.

A perfect widely visible example is how Trump and Biden are both quite obviously unqualified and unfit to lead this nation or the world and yet one of them will be elected president again. Tons of people will vote for one or the other for no reason other than that they see it as the correct box to check. Many will happily delude themselves into defending their candidate's fitness. It's nuts.

How can anybody from either party vote for either candidate and then complain about others checking a box rather than going with a qualified person? I think people, instead of demonizing some local government official they think is a checked-box employee, might want to look in the mirror and consider their own actions and choices instead. Except they won't.

Because everybody truly believes their shit doesn't stink with this stuff. The flies around us all says otherwise. The narratives reek of selectively applied judgment.

Ain't nothing getting better while people refuse to fix their own house.

Fair enough.

But it is a kinda of a new thing with regard to the stuff @GoodOl'Rutgers was talking about earlier.

 

[Extra Point]

The electric grid will be tested this week with most people cranking up their air conditioners.

 

[RUGiddy777]

Boy you’re looking for a lot of different units of calculation. As I said, long term.

The current process of exploration, extraction from deep sea to fracking. All requires massive amount of materials. Then the extracted oil travel by pipelines, massive cargo ships (tug.boats to move into harbor), where the product moves to refineries which are massive projects. Once refined they then move on truck, rail, pipeline and ship to distribution and onto gas stations all of which have massive steal tanks underneath them. We then drive our cars to these gas stations to get filled up.

Or massive amounts of materials to build renewable wind and solar which will come from utilities (some onsite) which will be distributed through wires to our homes where we plug in overnight. Does this require massive investment, yes but over 50 years we will be happy we did it.

If you’re saying we have massive sunk costs I agree and it we could decarbonize the current platform it would great. The conspiracy theory that there is the tech and we hide it is hard to believe. Who’s sitting on it? The energy companies? The car companies?

There is still the program of scarcity with respect to fossil fuels. The developing world isnt planning on sitting around being poor forever.

And he’s still wrong on an LCOE basis.

 

[RUGiddy777]

The media has a lot of blame for this as:

1. They (both sides) advocated ideology purity and

2. They put eyeballs and clicks as far more important than facts.

The two are probably related

I remember when Reagan and O'Neill compromised on social security and bought a generation for us to further act to solve the problems. The fact that essentially nothing has been done speaks volumes.

Well… there’s a whole bunch of us in the middle who look at the loudmouths around us with despair.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Whomever plans to do the best job in the industry should get the job.

Not because they check a box.

Thank you and mildone (citing his reply to you) for touching on my original calling out the left for how this building EV stations thing has gone so poorly.

To me, this represents a classic case of the pendulum swinging way too far left but the thread's response for pointing that out seems to have been.. forget the cited example.. stating that the left is to blame is some kind of unforgivable social faux pas.

But, really, the purpose of such reactions is to stifle criticism aimed squarely at how politics intrudes on good government. I do not know if the people here even know what they are doing as they squelch such speech. You'd think, as supporters of the EV direction, they'd want to address the issue at its source instead of trying to silence discussion of a problem.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Fair enough.

But it is a kinda of a new thing with regard to the stuff @GoodOl'Rutgers was talking about earlier.

Get this. I have supported affirmative action since I became aware of it in high school. I even still support it even as many black people do not (and I understand that stance.. they are not "lesser" as such a policy implies. To me, affirmative action still makes sense. But it does not ALWAYS make sense. And it should be about people of equal abilities.. not necessarily equal resumes... the lack of opportunities to build a resume was what it was all about correcting, IMO.

These days you still need to monitor for racial disparities... but these reductions of qualifications to pretend the candidates are equal or are up to the job? Nuts. And stuff like this EV station thing? Nuts.

 

[RUGiddy777]

Thank you and mildone (citing his reply to you) for touching on my original calling out the left for how this building EV stations thing has gone so poorly.

To me, this represents a classic case of the pendulum swinging way too far left but the thread's response for pointing that out seems to have been.. forget the cited example.. stating that the left is to blame is some kind of unforgivable social faux pas.

But, really, the purpose of such reactions is to stifle criticism aimed squarely at how politics intrudes on good government. I do not know if the people here even know what they are doing as they squelch such speech. You'd think, as supporters of the EV direction, they'd want to address the issue at its source instead of trying to silence discussion of a problem.

Are you under the impression that fossil fuel companies, the industry most at risk from the energy transition (and the one that buried evidence of climate change for decades) do not lobby politicians?

 

[dconifer]

Thank you and mildone (citing his reply to you) for touching on my original calling out the left for how this building EV stations thing has gone so poorly.

To me, this represents a classic case of the pendulum swinging way too far left but the thread's response for pointing that out seems to have been.. forget the cited example.. stating that the left is to blame is some kind of unforgivable social faux pas.

But, really, the purpose of such reactions is to stifle criticism aimed squarely at how politics intrudes on good government. I do not know if the people here even know what they are doing as they squelch such speech. You'd think, as supporters of the EV direction, they'd want to address the issue at its source instead of trying to silence discussion of a problem.

Yes, I agree with you that the rollout of EV stations is not going well, and the cart is somewhat in front of the horse on this...

 

[mildone]

Thank you and mildone (citing his reply to you) for touching on my original calling out the left for how this building EV stations thing has gone so poorly.

To me, this represents a classic case of the pendulum swinging way too far left but the thread's response for pointing that out seems to have been.. forget the cited example.. stating that the left is to blame is some kind of unforgivable social faux pas.

But, really, the purpose of such reactions is to stifle criticism aimed squarely at how politics intrudes on good government. I do not know if the people here even know what they are doing as they squelch such speech. You'd think, as supporters of the EV direction, they'd want to address the issue at its source instead of trying to silence discussion of a problem.

You still don't understand my point about left/right nonsense. Don't know how to make it any more clear.

People, left or right, complaining about the other side, even when they have a valid point, are wasting their time. Because nobody listens to or cares in the slightest about what anybody demonizing them says. People simply engage in counter-demonization or ignore it.

I can't blame people for tuning out one side or the other because I've tuned out both sides. I don't GAF what anybody has to say about politics. That's especially true when someone tries to stereotype ~40% of my fellow Americans (i.e. the left or the right, which are ambiguously defined terms anyway). That kind of stereotyping is a totally moronic thing to do every single time.

Want to talk about an issue and actually have some potential to persuade? Eliminate the demonization and finger-pointing. Then a conversation and persuasion becomes possible.

Otherwise, it's just more echo-camber bullshit with zero value to anyone.

 

[RUGiddy777]

You still don't understand my point about left/right nonsense. Don't know how to make it any more clear.

People, left or right, complaining about the other side, even when they have a valid point, are wasting their time. Because nobody listens to or cares in the slightest about what anybody demonizing them says. People simply engage in counter-demonization or ignore it.

I can't blame people for tuning out one side or the other because I've tuned out both sides. I don't GAF what anybody has to say about politics. That's especially true when someone tries to stereotype ~40% of my fellow Americans (i.e. the left or the right, which are ambiguously defined terms anyway). That kind of stereotyping is a totally moronic thing to do every single time.

Want to talk about an issue and actually have some potential to persuade? Eliminate the demonization and finger-pointing. Then a conversation and persuasion becomes possible.

Otherwise, it's just more echo-camber bullshit with zero value to anyone.

Its funny because there are definitely valid points - even those held by the extremes... But their arguments articulating their point and solutions are either mean spirited, absolutist, performative or extreme that, its nearly impossible to get past them. Unfortunately, our politicians are too often playing to the loudmouths on twitter rather than moderating those arguments and solutions into something amenable to the majority.

 

[RUGiddy777]

Also, here's a consolidated list of myth debunkings for solar, wind, EVs etc.

https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1218&context=sabin_climate_change

 

[mildone]

Its funny because there are definitely valid points - even those held by the extremes... But their arguments articulating their point and solutions are either mean spirited, absolutist, performative or extreme that, its nearly impossible to get past them. Unfortunately, our politicians are too often playing to the loudmouths on twitter rather than moderating those arguments and solutions into something amenable to the majority.

For sure I think there are many valid concerns coming from both sides. I mean, there always are. But since the two sides behave like children towards each other, those concerns are rarely, if ever, addressed in any meaningful or lasting way.

And those valid concerns are dwarfed by overhyped hypocritical BS fake concerns brainwashed into the chronically politically-obsessed lemmings who proceed to uncontrollably regurgitate it everywhere like so many infants with pyloric stenosis.

CE boards everywhere are primarily composed of such infants. It's like it's a prerequisite for participation. LOL

It seems, most days, that most people confuse being right with being persuasive. I'd like to say it's an intelligence or laziness thing, but plenty of extremely hard-working and highly-intelligent people suffer that misconception.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

You still don't understand my point about left/right nonsense. Don't know how to make it any more clear.

People, left or right, complaining about the other side, even when they have a valid point, are wasting their time. Because nobody listens to or cares in the slightest about what anybody demonizing them says. People simply engage in counter-demonization or ignore it.

I can't blame people for tuning out one side or the other because I've tuned out both sides. I don't GAF what anybody has to say about politics. That's especially true when someone tries to stereotype ~40% of my fellow Americans (i.e. the left or the right, which are ambiguously defined terms anyway). That kind of stereotyping is a totally moronic thing to do every single time.

Want to talk about an issue and actually have some potential to persuade? Eliminate the demonization and finger-pointing. Then a conversation and persuasion becomes possible.

Otherwise, it's just more echo-camber bullshit with zero value to anyone.

You keep claiming that you speak for everyone being demonized and how they don't care what anyone says.. and yet you keep responding.. showing just how much you care about what was said.

And YOU still don't understand my point.

What possible reason could there be for that EV station government edict to be the way it is other than it is being required by the leftist politicians?

That is the point.

You want to call it stereotyping 40% of the population.. that is all an inference choice you are making and not an implication I have made other than to say "the left" is permitting their politicians to be manipulated by those behind moves like this EV station thing.

"The left" deserves to know this so "the left" can correct it. I do not think "the left" wants the EV build-out to fail. I do think the politicians of the left who mandated these rules don't care if it fails as long as they and their benefactors get their payoffs.

Who else can do something about this? Do you think anyone on "the right" had anything to do with this?