OT: Alternative Energy

[fg7321]

Keep the political rancor out. Economics only please

So electricity rates in Europe are negative now due to the huge storm raging there now. If there was massive battery farms this energy could be stored when the wind stops blowing. Same for Solar farms.

Who has installed Solar and what has your experience been? Do you have battery storage? Leased or bought outright your system?

 

[tom1944]

My neighbor



Years ago

They are very happy

They bought it

 

[mdk01]

Keep the political rancor out. Economics only please

So electricity rates in Europe are negative now due to the huge storm raging there now. If there was massive battery farms this energy could be stored when the wind stops blowing. Same for Solar farms.

Who has installed Solar and what has your experience been? Do you have battery storage? Leased or bought outright your system?

But there aren't massive battery farms. And when the winds die down Germany will go back to burning coal in a greater amount than in the past because they prematurely shut down their nukes.

 

[ashokan]

If there was massive battery farms this energy could be stored when the wind stops blowing.

Locally its been funny/sad to see the backlash rising-up against acres of panels/batteries.
Many people who hated pipelines and power plants are now discovering what a few thousand solar panels actually look like (they should have known better tbh)

As Demand for Green Energy Grows, Solar Farms Face Local Resistance (Published 2021)

Developers say industrial-scale farms are needed to meet the nation’s climate goals, but locals are fighting back against what they see as an encroachment on their pastoral settings.

www.nytimes.com

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

Everywhere out here in Hunterdon County. Farmland is being replaced by panels. Nationwide.
I looked into solar for my house and got several quotes. The best one that replaced 100% of my monthly KWT usage had a ROI of 11 years (inclusive of current federal subsidies). Great deal for the next person to own my home unless there are huge rebates passed again...(and I'll stop there to adhere to the OPs request on politics :)

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

France did it right…nuclear.

Solar and wind are not the answer yet and won’t be for a while. Those that got rid of coal too quickly and other reliable sources will have to learn to deal with market spikes, insufficient supply episodes and related unpleasantness. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[e5fdny]

Keep the political rancor out. Economics only please

So electricity rates in Europe are negative now due to the huge storm raging there now. If there was massive battery farms this energy could be stored when the wind stops blowing. Same for Solar farms.

Who has installed Solar and what has your experience been? Do you have battery storage? Leased or bought outright your system?

Solar.

So far so good.

No battery but a whole house Generac generator powered by natural gas.

Own.

 

[RC1991]

We installed solar late summer of 2021 and added battery storage as we have short term intermittent power outages. Took advantage Of the 26% fed tax credit on the solar and storage and WA state charges no sales tax on the equipment or installation. Also have net metering in place. The way it works here is that credits are built up starting in April of every year since other greatest production is spring through early fall given that sunset peaks at 9:30 pm in summer. In any event we have been seeing a significant savings on electricity even with our low rates and the fact that we didn’t have much time to build credits last year as our system went live in late August. We did have a few outages and our battery storage kicked in so we had power throughout the outage. AC and electric dryer are the only items not backed up due to the large electric demands. We have a 16 kW battery (LG) and a 9.9 kW PV system. Since last August we’ve generated 2 MWh of electric and exported about 800 kWh to the grid.

I do agree that solar farms take up a huge amount of space and need better way to store unused energy. However, home roofs have a huge amount of unused space. It would make a lot of sense for any new homes under construction to add a PV system. With home prices the way the arena PV system (no battery storage) would likely add only $15 to $30 k to the price of the home if that.

 

[fg7321]

So just

Locally its been funny/sad to see the backlash rising-up against acres of panels/batteries.
Many people who hated pipelines and power plants are now discovering what a few thousand solar panels actually look like (they should have known better tbh)

As Demand for Green Energy Grows, Solar Farms Face Local Resistance (Published 2021)

Developers say industrial-scale farms are needed to meet the nation’s climate goals, but locals are fighting back against what they see as an encroachment on their pastoral settings.

www.nytimes.com

I agree with this . Why can Rutgers have panels in multiple parking lots and towns and schools don't? Why was great adventure allowed to cut down forest instead of putting panels in their parking lots?

 

[fg7321]

But there aren't massive battery farms. And when the winds die down Germany will go back to burning coal in a greater amount than in the past because they prematurely shut down their nukes.

Battery farms are coming . Energy storage is the next for development. Electric car batteries that are not 75- 80 % capable any more will be used for storage.

 

[koleszar]

Keep the political rancor out. Economics only please

So electricity rates in Europe are negative now due to the huge storm raging there now. If there was massive battery farms this energy could be stored when the wind stops blowing. Same for Solar farms.

Who has installed Solar and what has your experience been? Do you have battery storage? Leased or bought outright your system?

First you must buy outright and if you plan on staying in your home "forever" it's a really good deal. If not, then you'll foot the bill. It's as simple as that.

Also I'm completely against removing trees to put in solar farms. The whole thing is counterproductive. Destroying more green space is not the answer, yet in our infinite wisdom this is the Governments answer by allowing developers to continue the practice.

 

[RC1991]

First you must buy outright and if you plan on staying in your home "forever" it's a really good deal. If not, then you'll foot the bill. It's as simple as that.

Also I'm completely against removing trees to put in solar farms. The whole thing is counterproductive. Destroying more green space is not the answer, yet in our infinite wisdom this is the Governments answer by allowing developers to continue the practice.

I think you would see a return after a few years if you own the system and sell your house. Especially if you have storage it does increase home value....at least out here.

Agree with you completely on the tree removal issue. Kind of defeats the purpose as you say, especially for solar farms. I think if home developers are removing trees to build houses (like out here) they should be required to add at least a basic PV system to those houses.

There was an interesting article out here about wind production in the Yakima valley and putting wind turbines on farms. Interestingly, the farmers were in favor because unlike a solar farm they can still work the land. The ones against it were the NIMBYs complaining about their view and the fact that the energy was going to the Seattle metro area. Supposedly enough to power 245,000 homes. Also, makes for an argument to add PV to those houses and apartment buildings in the metro area and redirect that wind energy to other areas or for other purposes.

 

[DJ Spanky]

But there aren't massive battery farms. And when the winds die down Germany will go back to burning coal in a greater amount than in the past because they prematurely shut down their nukes.

That was such an incredibly bonehead decision. And to replace the coal they're counting on more natural gas from Russia. Brilliant!

France did it right…nuclear.

I just don't understand the hellbent attitude against nuclear. Yes, 50's and 60's technology was inadequate when it came to multiply redundant safeguards. But France has shown how to do it right on a smaller scale and has been wildly successful with it.

Solar and wind are not the answer yet and won’t be for a while. Those that got rid of coal too quickly and other reliable sources will have to learn to deal with market spikes, insufficient supply episodes and related unpleasantness. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Hello California!!!

Also I'm completely against removing trees to put in solar farms. The whole thing is counterproductive. Destroying more green space is not the answer, yet in our infinite wisdom this is the Governments answer by allowing developers to continue the practice.

And that's the most bizarre part of this. Tearing down forests and eliminating meadows and watersheds is better for our carbon footprint? Really?

 

[tom1944]

You need nuclear to move from fossil fuels

 

[Kbee3]

You need nuclear to move from fossil fuels

Where exactly do we store the nuclear waste from these power plants ?

 

[mdk01]

Where exactly do we store the nuclear waste from these power plants ?

From the plants that are currently operating that may get shut down early (and HAVE been shut down in Germary) wherever they WERE going to store it.

 

[retired711]

But there aren't massive battery farms. And when the winds die down Germany will go back to burning coal in a greater amount than in the past because they prematurely shut down their nukes.

Coal will still be generating a substantially smaller percentage of Germany's electricity than twenty years ago. https://www.ans.org/news/article-32...-energy-in-2021-but-theres-more-to-the-story/ Of course, that may change if Russia invades Ukraine and disrupts the flow of gas to Western Europe

 

[retired711]

Where exactly do we store the nuclear waste from these power plants ?

Right now, the waste is being stored at the plants in dry casks. Obviously, this is not a long-term solution. But no state wants a nuclear disposal site. Some nations, however, are moving toward recyclilng spent fuel rods. That hugely reduces the amount of waste generated. There also have been considerable advances in developing reactors that are less vulnerable to failure. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/next-generation-nuclear/

 

[RC1991]

This is a new type of nuclear plant being built in the site of a decommissioned coal plant in Wyoming:

Next-Gen Nuclear Plant and Jobs Are Coming to Wyoming

TerraPower's decision to build its advanced reactor in Wyoming expected to create jobs and clean energy opportunities for the state.

www.energy.gov

 

[mdk01]

Coal will still be generating a substantially smaller percentage of Germany's electricity than twenty years ago. https://www.ans.org/news/article-32...-energy-in-2021-but-theres-more-to-the-story/ Of course, that may change if Russia invades Ukraine and disrupts the flow of gas to Western Europe

The case I would make is that their wind and solar build out is what replaced the coal from 20 years ago. But the only replacement to early shuttering of the nuclear plants was coal. To me, if the primary worry is green house gas emissions that makes no sense.

BTW, if Biden really wants to rattle Putin's cage he would say he is reconsidering the shut down of Keystone.

 

[retired711]

The case I would make is that their wind and solar build out is what replaced the coal from 20 years ago. But the only replacement to early shuttering of the nuclear plants was coal. To me, if the primary worry is green house gas emissions that makes no sense.

BTW, if Biden really wants to rattle Putin's cage he would say he is reconsidering the shut down of Keystone.

Yes, replacing nukes with coal makes no sense. You may have seen that I posted above a Scientific American article on the potential to develop safer nuclear reactors that will generate less waste. I think the environmentalists have been much too quick to reject nuclear energy as an option. I also think the environmentalists are going to start thinking twice about large solar and wind projects because the environmentalists will realize that they carry their own environmental difficulties.

I don't really see why transporting heavy oil to the Gulf Coast is something that will rattle Putin's cage. OTOH, I think the important thing right now is to get as much natural gas to Western Europe as possible.

 

[theRU]

Locally its been funny/sad to see the backlash rising-up against acres of panels/batteries.
Many people who hated pipelines and power plants are now discovering what a few thousand solar panels actually look like (they should have known better tbh)

As Demand for Green Energy Grows, Solar Farms Face Local Resistance (Published 2021)

Developers say industrial-scale farms are needed to meet the nation’s climate goals, but locals are fighting back against what they see as an encroachment on their pastoral settings.

www.nytimes.com

Every big box retailer just needs to convert to panels.. love to see someone do the math on that

 

[DJ Spanky]

Where exactly do we store the nuclear waste from these power plants ?

Your backyard.

 

[retired711]

Your backyard.

Hey moderator -- moderate yourself!

 

[CERU00]

Locally its been funny/sad to see the backlash rising-up against acres of panels/batteries.
Many people who hated pipelines and power plants are now discovering what a few thousand solar panels actually look like (they should have known better tbh)

As Demand for Green Energy Grows, Solar Farms Face Local Resistance (Published 2021)

Developers say industrial-scale farms are needed to meet the nation’s climate goals, but locals are fighting back against what they see as an encroachment on their pastoral settings.

www.nytimes.com

I wonder (but am too lazy to do the math) how many acres of panels are required to replace the output of an average natural gas powerplant? I'm sure it's an unbelievably large number....

 

[fg7321]

This is a new type of nuclear plant being built in the site of a decommissioned coal plant in Wyoming:

Next-Gen Nuclear Plant and Jobs Are Coming to Wyoming

TerraPower's decision to build its advanced reactor in Wyoming expected to create jobs and clean energy opportunities for the state.

www.energy.gov

Bill Gates is building this plant

 

[T2Kplus20]

France did it right…nuclear.

Solar and wind are not the answer yet and won’t be for a while. Those that got rid of coal too quickly and other reliable sources will have to learn to deal with market spikes, insufficient supply episodes and related unpleasantness. 🤷🏻‍♂️

^^^^^ Great post. Our nation should be 100% nuclear by now.

 

[T2Kplus20]

Right now, the waste is being stored at the plants in dry casks. Obviously, this is not a long-term solution. But no state wants a nuclear disposal site. Some nations, however, are moving toward recyclilng spent fuel rods. That hugely reduces the amount of waste generated. There also have been considerable advances in developing reactors that are less vulnerable to failure. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/next-generation-nuclear/

Newer nuke tech is remarkable, but for some reason new plants aren't being built. Why? Stupid government. At least old plants and reactors should be replace with new ones.

Also, nuke waste should be sent to Yucca Mountain as planned a decade or so ago. It's an ideal location. Problem solved!

 

[Yeah Baby]

I think we need to keep striving for new sources and I think Nuclear is our best option today because it is sustainable. Waste is an issue but we have waste with solar as well and it is not as sustainable. I’m into the research being done for other sources. It makes sense for the long term. However, I know a lot of people hanging shingles and making a lot of money while doing almost no real work to develop anything. So we need to do a better job spending the research money wisely. We do the same thing with military and defense research budgets.

Our country has one of the lowest carbon footprints in the world but that’s mainly because we outsource the work on solar, batteries, etc and the carbon footprint in say China is probably one of if not the worst in the world. Meanwhile we have done a great job cleaning up the existing processes used for our current resources. That effort should also continue.

 

[Yeah Baby]

Bill Gates is building this plant

Keep the political rancor off this thread lol

 

[e5fdny]

^^^^^ Great post. Our nation should be 100% nuclear by now.

I don’t know about being 100% on anything.

But it’s certainly not a bad idea to have as many options as possible.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Two words: terrestrial nucleosynthesis

 

[fg7321]

Right now, the waste is being stored at the plants in dry casks. Obviously, this is not a long-term solution. But no state wants a nuclear disposal site. Some nations, however, are moving toward recyclilng spent fuel rods. That hugely reduces the amount of waste generated. There also have been considerable advances in developing reactors that are less vulnerable to failure. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/next-generation-nuclear/

This article is from 2009?

 

[retired711]

Newer nuke tech is remarkable, but for some reason new plants aren't being built. Why? Stupid government. At least old plants and reactors should be replace with new ones.

Also, nuke waste should be sent to Yucca Mountain as planned a decade or so ago. It's an ideal location. Problem solved!

The Yucca Mountain site inot going to happen. No site is going to happen. There is no area in America that will consent to taking the waste, and the Yucca Mountain example shows that it is not possible to impose a facility on an area. We're just going to find ways to generate less waste.

There has been a lot of progress in coming up with better designs. But they are going to have be damn good to get people to buy in. It's not "stupid government" that's the problem; it's public resistance.

 

[retired711]

This article is from 2009?

My apologies! Here's one that's more recent from the MIT Technology Review. We've made progress, but we're not yet where we need to be. https://www.technologyreview.com/20...reactors-that-might-help-stop-climate-change/

 

[T2Kplus20]

The Yucca Mountain site inot going to happen. No site is going to happen. There is no area in America that will consent to taking the waste, and the Yucca Mountain example shows that it is not possible to impose a facility on an area. We're just going to find ways to generate less waste.

As the Scientific American article I cited above discusses, there has been a lot of progress in coming up with better designs. But they are going to have be damn good to get people to buy in. It's not "stupid government" that's the problem; it's public resistance.

It's stupid government.....very, very, very stupid government. Who is preventing new reactors being built on existing sites and older less reliable ones from being shutdown? Stupid government.

 

[retired711]

It's stupid government.....very, very, very stupid government. Who is preventing new reactors being built on existing sites and older less reliable ones from being shutdown? Stupid government.

The "stupid government" reflects what the public wants and doesn't want. If anyone is "stupid," it's the public. In a representative democracy, it's not possible to force on people what a majority (or close to a majority) doesn't want. I believe you have been involved in government, so you should be the first to recognize that.

 

[T2Kplus20]

The "stupid government" reflects what the public wants and doesn't want. If anyone is "stupid," it's the public. In a representative democracy, it's not possible to force on people what a majority (or close to a majority) doesn't want. I believe you have been involved in government, so you should be the first to recognize that.

A tiny special interest group that donates money to certain pols is not the majority or close to a majority. And as someone with gov experience, I am the first to recognize this. This is the real world. The vast majority of people don't give a sh!t about any issues to get involved. Special interests and donations rule the day, not common sense.

#stupidgovernment

 

[mdk01]

Yes, replacing nukes with coal makes no sense. You may have seen that I posted above a Scientific American article on the potential to develop safer nuclear reactors that will generate less waste. I think the environmentalists have been much too quick to reject nuclear energy as an option. I also think the environmentalists are going to start thinking twice about large solar and wind projects because the environmentalists will realize that they carry their own environmental difficulties.

I don't really see why transporting heavy oil to the Gulf Coast is something that will rattle Putin's cage. OTOH, I think the important thing right now is to get as much natural gas to Western Europe as possible.

Long term, not the immediate future, Keystone would negatively impact Nordstream. Russia is basically a gas station more than a diversified economic entity. Competition is damaging.

 

[MCY]

When I lived in NJ (recently moved to CO) I put in a 13.5KW system back in 2009. I believe I crossed over the payback period somewhere in year 8 or 9. I took a peek at what the program is out here in CO when we purchased our house and the payback sucks - no SRECs out here - which is how you make your money back in NJ in a reasonable time frame.

With regard to solar farms, just incredibly dumb for green farmland and such to host solar arrays. Way too much roof top space available to allow for ground based systems pretty much anywhere. I believe this is the unintended consequence of removing almost all authority from local government (read: local building code and enforcement) when the state passed legislation for solar funding and install way back when. The intention was to prevent every town - and your neighbor - from putting up road blocks to solar install. Permitting was super simple, just have to be up to the electrical code - that was it.