I read an article a couple of years ago about Montclair State building luxury Dorms to attract special students probably “Honor type” students. It similar to the arm race in football programs. Get the best students “Top 5%” which are the high SAT scores or GPA students which make it attractive for other students. In a way, it doesn’t improve the education but significantly increases the cost of college tuition.
OT: Applications for Rutgers NB have increased almost 40% for Fall 2024
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The honors college dorms are very nice with AC and great amenities. They have a visiting professor (and family) live there with the kids.
I went to accepted students day with my son last spring. They took us through dorms on college avenue. The honors dorms are probably the only nice dorms on all of rutgers. If not in honors dorms, you could end up on any of the NB campuses...and they are all pretty much terrible. My son went to a basketball camp at Rutgers several years ago and stayed in the Livingston dorm...whoa it was like a prison...maybe worse. Not ragging on Rutgers, but sharing examples of how Rutgers does not show well when compared to a ton of OOS publics. When you tour a campus that is very appealing it gives the impression that there's investment in the overall university....that the state is supporting it....and there is quality. I have to admit...and again I have two degrees from RU and have donated tens of thousands to RU....I bleed scarlet....when I toured with my son and compared to other schools, RU fell down the list very quickly. 15th Ranking is a very great thing, but I honestly believe there are a lot of factors that go into those rankings that have nothing to do with the academic outcome and more to do with social and other factors. I am proud of my RU degrees, but don't believe a RU education is significantly different than most public university educations....you come out just as smart and ready at any of them. It's what you put into it and what you take from it.
Housing isn't the determining factor, but it can be an influence. It's typically only even part of the kids life freshman year. But when you are looking at multiple large public universities and RU is the one that has 90% nasty housing, it makes RU look bad. Then you tour the academic buildings and if you really look, most are pretty beat up and ugly. Rutgers looks bad in most physical ways, including spread over multiple campuses that you need to take a bus to. It's far from ideal and far from a normal campus that one would expect. Besides my kids, I have nephews from PA who ended up going to PSU. They considered RU and then when they visited they were very turned off, mostly because of the multi-campus system. Great school with excellent and improving rep, but it's not a nice place by any means.
Bohn Hall when built (early 80s, late 70s?) was touted at the time as state of the art (without AC - LOL) and “was designed by an architect who usually built for Hilton.” Great views of the NYC skyline.
Friends from HS went there.
Again, which is all I’m saying….an influence, not the final or main reason.
Something we can work on going forward.
If living situation is high on your list, go to Arizona or Arizona State. I was under the impression that Livingston has the best dorms now but not according to @ScarletDog. Am I missing something? All of my college tours didn’t include dorm tours. The dorms I have seen are Villanova and Babson via summer camp. Villanova is worst than RU and Babson was about the same. Would love to hear what are the better dorms like and where.
I’ve told this story many times, but the architect who designed Livingston was very good friends with my Parents.
His specialty…prisons. LOL
And he was actually told to use that idea when designing the Quads. In the mid 80’s after he found out I was at Rutgers, he shared that with me at a 4th of July party our families would go to every year in Mendham.
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The new dorms (apartments) on Livingston look nice. But they are for continuing students and grad students. Pretty sure freshman don't get into those apartments. Freshman would not get a look at them. That new area they built with the retail on ground level is nice. But look at the rest of the campus...looks and feels like a couple worn out buildings sprinkled in an open field. It's ugly and has zero character...worse than a 1970's corporate park.
This makes so much sense. When I walked into the quads (for hoops camp) it had a very prison-like feel to it. Kids are resilient, but it seemed like it would be a depressing place to live. Bunker-like in design, bathrooms had that "don't drop the soap" feel.
Rutgers general tours pretty much take you on a bus ride....at least that's what I was told. There's a reason they don't take people in the dorms...it's something to avoid. Go to accepted student day and see them for yourself. Among the worst i've seen and I've visited at least 15 colleges in the last two years. Again, it's not the most important factor when choosing a college, but it give a bad impression of the school. When an 18 year old...and parents....are comparing schools and where the kid will spend the next 4 years, different schools present a different level of quality. This quality is portrayed in a lot of ways including academics, support programs, recreational opportunities, internships, study abroad (they all push this one), campus, dining, housing, campus, surrounding city, athletics, and on and on. Housing is one part of the overall perception of the commitment to the next 4 years of life. Rutgers fails in this area. They also look bad in the recreation area (gyms are mostly junk). Athletics is better now and B1G has helped a lot. Campus is not appealing and spread out nature of campus system is a big negative. Rutgers is a very good school with a lot of warts. We (NJ) have not invested well in our flagship university over the years and it shows. Going back to the original point, in response to our post, living situation is on the list. Doesn't have to be so high on the list that one would want to go to ASU for it to be a negative part of the evaluation. And then as you go down the list, there are other significant negatives. RU has a lot of positives as well. We wouldn't be turning highly qualified kids away if that were not the case.
Livingston was a different place in the 80s and 90s. It’s the school you apply to if you don’t think you can get into any other schools at RU. Are people just looking for newer buildings? I was at a tailgate in the black lot and cut through the new dorms where the BAMM dorms were. They look very nice. Listing one dorm built in the 80s as a comparison is just finding the excuse. I’m sure I can find one sh1tty dorm in every school.
LOL. Every tour I went on from UPenn to SHU, none of the schools show you the dorms. But why let the facts get in the way. Like I said, maybe I see more of them I may agree with you. Based on the 3 schools I have seen, RU is better or the same.
LOL - Like I said, I visited more than 15 schools in the last year. But why let the facts get in the way. Most showed dorms. Those that don't are not showing them for a reason. Seems you and I have a different set of data. Mine seems to be a larger sample size. I like Rutgers, but the dorms are trash...that's a fact.
All of my relatives had to get in thru the backdoor at Livingston. Being in the top 15% of your HS class didn’t allow you to go thru the front door. One did get into the business school when he applied in his second year. Amazing they do so well when the graduate when they couldn’t get in the front door. Social skills, communication skills, networking, strong work ethics and strong analytical skills are probably more important than good grades at school.
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Rutgers dorms were mostly built quickly and cheaply when the school expanded quickly after WW2.
Although I lived on Cook freshman year in a dorm built in the 90s. Had nice sized rooms and AC, right by the gym. I loved it.
It cost a shitload to build in NJ. Way way more than Oxford Mississippi or Tuscaloosa Alabama. So what you have in those areas are schools that look nice with nice campuses that can't hold a candle academically to Rutgers Camden. Lipstick on a pig.
Although I lived on Cook freshman year in a dorm built in the 90s. Had nice sized rooms and AC, right by the gym. I loved it.
It cost a shitload to build in NJ. Way way more than Oxford Mississippi or Tuscaloosa Alabama. So what you have in those areas are schools that look nice with nice campuses that can't hold a candle academically to Rutgers Camden. Lipstick on a pig.
There are too many factors that go into a college decision and I would never judge or have an opinion about someone else’s choice. My three siblings and I all went to RU. None of our combined eleven kids started at RU but two of them ultimately transferred to the banks. My own kids “just didn’t want to go to Rutgers”. For whatever reasons RU didn’t feel right for them and I never pressed it.
Agree.
I think it looks so much better. Some might not feel the same but it feels pretty B1G and big time to me.
And people have to realize, we’re not done over there yet.
Like I asked before, please share which schools showed you dorms and why they were better than RU NB dorms?
Is it a post-COVID thing that dorms are not included in tours anymore? EVERY school my kids toured included dorms.
My Metzger dorm is still standing. Imagine having to live there and look out to the new dorms across the street. LOL. RU is a big school and these upgrades are happening but slowly across all campuses. I can definitely see the upgrades on Bush, Livingston and NB. Cook and Douglas seems the same on the bus tour.
Not sure. The Georgetown tour didn’t take you into a single building. All the other schools took us through the student center and library (RU did Bush campus student center). Some of the schools provided meals in their dinning hall.
Why are the students crying about those small tuition increases? Most of them don’t even pay full price.
I took a class called “Prisons and Prisoners” on Livingston and the professor told us all about how Livingston was set up to be able to handle social unrest with its design
Yes. Zero ole miss or Alabama grads get good jobs or go to grad school. You guys vastly overate the difference in education from school to school.
I think it’s more of a reference to the middle 50%. The top 10% of most schools will be successful. TBH, in my field, RU is the Ole Miss and Alabama.
Accepted Students day for Engineering my older boy and I went thru the nice dorms (lobby only) and then were shown and told the BAMM dorms will be your home.
I’m guessing they were still the same from when you lived there. LOL
That’s what my Parents friend, the architect, said RU officials told him too….”this is what we’re looking for in this project.”
Ever try to walk into office say 225 in Lucy Scott Hall? To get to 226, you’d have to go back downstairs, outside and back up the stairs to another entrance. There were also some crazy stories about the tunnels under the dorms but I can’t remember them.
I never lived on Livingston or had friends in the Quads. But I did hear about the interconnected tunnel story from those that did live there.
Yeah my parents explained how money works to me. I can understand how a parent who brags about sending his NJ kid to Clemson isn't an intellectual fit for that conversation.
And RU wins every fake quality you mentioned.
The only area where Clemson can beat RU for a NJ parent is where a parent needs to show he has money to feel important, but whose kid can't get into a prestigious out of state school. So yeah, checks out.
I’m not even sure that’s the case. Your school might help you with your first set of interviews. I’ve said this a million times, for every company that’s looking for RU grads there is an equal company looking for Penn State, or Pitt, or Michigan or UConn grads. there is some regional component to it as well. A NYC employer may just have more of a track record with RU grads but the same goes for all the booming areas in Florida, Texas and SC with their state schools.
My oldest only looked at southern schools. Her process was a little different because it involved sports as well. Many coaches were very honest with her about what she wanted to do in the future especially smaller schools. They would say things like if you want to move back to NYC and apply to a Big 4 firm understand they might not know much about our university. No different than some company in Charlotte will have never heard of Colgate or Bucknell. Barring a NCAA tournament run that year. Lol
Still exists, and yes, the reason is that some parents whose kids can't get into a worth it expensive school (Ivies, Duke, CMU, even a Michigan or UVA) still need to show they have money...so they send their kids to schools with lower ranked academics but higher tuition. Thus why Cult has a following in NJ.
Definitely didn't say lead with either, just think either concern is overblown. Esp considering the "competition" certainly has buses, at least.
Personally I never a class on Livingston and had one on Busch in 4 years. If I took the bus to Pway it was for games. Douglass I had a lot of classes. As long they weren't early morning I didn't care. And I didn't have a smartphone to stare at lol.
Yet...NYU, Drexel and UDel are typically ranked top 5 for NJ kids applying OOS. Without traffic they are what each 15 minutes from the NJ line? Here in Hudson County I'm closer to NYU than RU.
