OT: Bank severance requires 2 years on call no pay.

[Upstream]

I do not kn ow the details of this particular situation, but I have signed agreements myself (or my business has), in both directions, that has a very standard "separation" clause that requires each side to be available to each other, sometimes for unspecified, lengths of time. Usually the reasons are spelled out, and also usually apply to legal matters such as law suits or other legal disputes. And sometimes there are, quite reasonably, no time limits (i.e. a legal dispute connected to the work done by the company or ex-employee could arise years after the separation), and even when time limits are spelled out they are usually for much longer than the so-called time covered by a severance payment.

Jelly -- I assume that the agreements you've been involved in are at more senior levels of the organization. I think this type of open-ended availability is pretty unusual at lower levels of the organization. Is there any legitimate reason the SunTrust Banks needs to include the clause in the separation agreements for 100 IT professionals to make themselves available for 2 years regarding any matter in which they've been involved over the course of their employment? If there is a pending legal matter, then SunTrust should specify that in only the separation agreements for the handful of employees who reasonably would be called.

 

[RU_Planning]

Essentially it is we make you train your replacements and then fire you, but when your replacements can't do the job like you used to, you need to come back and fix it free of charge.

 

[mdk01]

I'm still waiting to hear whether there was a payment associated with the severance agreement. If there was, then they're not coming back free of charge.

 

[anvilofstars]

If they paid 2 years worth of severance, they still would not be able to win this lawsuit in court.

"reasonable and not interfering with future employment"... any IT job is almost always on call in some way. This would interfere with that. Therefore unenforceable.

However, if my first piece of advice was drop the database and they did it... what would they do? Fire me again?

 

[Trekology]

I hear you.

But ... when you sign a severance agreement (usually required before you get a check from said agreement), you are signing a legal document with terms attached to it, and are obligated by law to adhere to the terms of the signed agreement.

I'm fortunate enough to not have been faced with such a situation but I'd imagine that the ex-employer would have a hard time enforcing such an agreement. Even if it is "standard" they are asking the ex-employee for free labor in the future. For any business, would things like insurance cover what an non-employee does? So let's say that the ex-employee was called and gave incorrect information (intentional or not) and it led to significant monetary loss--would insurance cover it?

I wonder what the company rep would say if, when handed such an agreement, your response would be, "I need to have my attorney review this before agreeing to anything" or "I'd be more than happy to answer your future questions at my standard consultation rate, with a minimum billing of 4 hours."

 

[megadrone]

I'm fortunate enough to not have been faced with such a situation but I'd imagine that the ex-employer would have a hard time enforcing such an agreement. Even if it is "standard" they are asking the ex-employee for free labor in the future. For any business, would things like insurance cover what an non-employee does? So let's say that the ex-employee was called and gave incorrect information (intentional or not) and it led to significant monetary loss--would insurance cover it?

I wonder what the company rep would say if, when handed such an agreement, your response would be, "I need to have my attorney review this before agreeing to anything" or "I'd be more than happy to answer your future questions at my standard consultation rate, with a minimum billing of 4 hours."

Actually, I was let go from a job, the separation and severance were separate. I had to sign an agreement to get the severance but was out the door regardless.

I had time to have a lawyer review the agreement so I knew what I got myself in to (not so much for support but for an outstanding lawsuit, I needed to know what my protection was since I wasn't an employee). When I returned the signed form, then the severance was processed.

 

[RU_Planning]

I'm still waiting to hear whether there was a payment associated with the severance agreement. If there was, then they're not coming back free of charge.

I think it is safe to assume there is a payment, however I am not sure how that changes anything. Severance payments during a layoff are common place and good business practice in a tough situation. Historically severance payment didn't come with these types of strings attached, at least not for mid-level positions.

Lets say that 3 months in severance pay means the former employee should be on call to their old company for 2 years, that is okay with you?

 

[dconifer]

The good thing about Sanders and Trump is that you know they can not be brought. The bad news is that both parties hate them. So they will never get anything done if they win. the house and congress will never pass anything.

So it doesn't even matter. Politics are a mess. Whenever, I see people on here and elsewhere debate nonsense issues I just SMH, since they can't see the forest for the trees.

Sad part is that I don't have an answer, I don't know how it can be fixed. I feel helpless and I am sure that many people do as well.

Well-said, Scourge. That's why I love that these two guys are in the race. Overall I'm not a huge fan of either, but they are not afraid to speak the truth and aren't forced to toe any corporate line. If either somehow won their respective nomination, I'd stifle my objections to them on so many issues because as far as the big picture goes, they're selling something that I think we need to be buying.

I feel exactly as you do, though. Helpless. I'm in IT. It's incredible how much work gets farmed out to India, and to Indians who have come here to work for peanuts, displacing Americans. Good for the ambitious Indians, but our country needs policies and attitudes to preserve what we still have.

 

[mdk01]

Lets say that 3 months in severance pay means the former employee should be on call to their old company for 2 years, that is okay with you?

Give me the specific facts, not some cherry picked scenario, and I'll comment.

 

[RU_Planning]

Give me the specific facts, not some cherry picked scenario, and I'll comment.

I'll request a contract from one of the former employees that we will be supporting through our tax dollars while he is on call while looking for work supporting a company benefiting its bottom line by using H1-B visa workers at a fraction of the cost. I am sure I will have it by this afternoon.

 

[Upstream]

Give me the specific facts, not some cherry picked scenario, and I'll comment.

From what I read elsewhere, the Bank is offering two weeks severance for every year you worked. The average laid off worker has 11 years tenure. Therefore they are getting, on average, 22 weeks severance and they have to be on call for 2 years.

 

[sherrane]

I won't name where I work but we have a very large Indian operation. We started it probably 8 years ago. It's massive now. My team alone consists of almost 1/2 Indians who work out off India. makes for a lot of morning "check in" and status calls of how things are going. They are super cheap, although I'm hearing from management that now they are even getting more expensive and I think more expensive faster than they initially thought. We also bring over a bunch to the US to live and work here on Visas and then they go back after 18 months to manage the Indian teams out there.

It's cary b/c a lot of jobs are not front office. Most companies are not the front office guys. Just everyone else in support. It'll be a shame when all of those jobs are overseas.

About 15 years ago I was hired as a (software development) contractor to work in a software company that had it's primary development staff in Washington state and a small group in Atlanta that was a company they purchased. They started bringing work back to the states after their Russian outsource failed. They initially had a small team in Russia that was inexpensive and good. They soon realized Russia was a lot like the US where there are more good paying programming jobs than good programmers. They decided it was better to pay more to have a mediocre staff in the US than save money by having a mediocre staff overseas. Later I was hired by another company that was basically at that same point, but with the remote staff in India instead of Russia. It wouldn't surprise me if part of the added expense could be attributed to the added incompetence of expanding the operation there.

 

[mdk01]

I'll request a contract from one of the former employees that we will be supporting through our tax dollars while he is on call while looking for work supporting a company benefiting its bottom line by using H1-B visa workers at a fraction of the cost. I am sure I will have it by this afternoon.

If that former employee got 22 weeks of severance and is already (and quite legally, I'm not alleging criminality in any way) receiving support from our tax dollars one wonders about the structure of our unemployment compensation system.

 

[mdk01]

From what I read elsewhere, the Bank is offering two weeks severance for every year you worked. The average laid off worker has 11 years tenure. Therefore they are getting, on average, 22 weeks severance and they have to be on call for 2 years.

If it's 22 weeks I think it's fair.

 

[RU_Planning]

If that former employee got 22 weeks of severance and is already (and quite legally, I'm not alleging criminality in any way) receiving support from our tax dollars one wonders about the structure of our unemployment compensation system.

If it is a 1 time payment then the former employ can collect unemployment, if the former employee continues to be on payroll for the payment of severance then the former employee can't receive unemployment benefits until that period ends.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Several observations from this thread.

If Sanders and Trump are both speaking the truth, how are they saying opposite things?

IT outsourcing is at its apex right now. Both Accenture and KPMG have recently written opinion papers, supported by extensive Fortune 1,000 polling, that senior IT managers are reconsidering offshoring all but the must rudimentary (think Dell's call center as one example) roles. More than 50% of managers polled indicated they were "more likely than not" to return jobs to the states than to expand offshoring in FY 2016.

My wife is in financial systems (Hyperion, Cognos, etc) and manages teams in Asia and Bangalore. It's an absolute clusterfork. Quality of work is low. Communication is impossible (calls at 8 and 9pm EST to catch them when they are in the office). My wife's team has several builds in the pipeline and their decision is to spend more on domestic consultants, rather than expand teams abroad.

 

[Bleed_Scarlet]

I'd suggest you talk to a top flight employment attorney..

Outten and Golden in New York is one of the best.

I guess it is possible, as long as there isn't a non compete also (that would prevent you from gaining other employment)..