OT: COVID Science - Pfizer/Moderna vaccines >90% effective; Regeneron antibody cocktail looks very promising in phase II/III trial and more

[Knight Shift]

We disagree. IMO, I'm simply providing the data and context, trying to let people know that there are very rare risks of anaphylaxis with these vaccines (like there are with any vaccines) and showing that the risk is still tiny compared to the benefits, but also indicating that people with severe allergies should be talking to their doctors before getting vaccinated. I've seen the side effects, including potential allergic responses discussed many times in print and on TV, so the risks weren't "swept under the rug" from my perspective.

I don't care what new vaccine comes out - people should know from the past, whether from their own vaccinations or those for their kids, and from what's been shared on these vaccines, so far, that there are somewhat common side effects, which are not serious, but in rare cases, as with any vaccine, serious allergic responses are possible.

My advice to anyone who has any significant allergies and absolutely anyone who has any history of anaphylactic responses to any allergen (and of course any previous vaccine) is to consult with one's doctor - or at the very least, don't leave the vaccination area for at least 20-30 minutes, as allergic responses are almost always within minutes - and even pharmacies are capable of administering epinepherine, if needed.

And from my perspective, you spend a lot of time questioning the safety and efficacy of vaccines, even going so far as to say you likely won't get a vaccine even though eligible, which is certainly your prerogative, but the price we pay for that, in aggregate, is that we have far too many people who are afraid or unwilling to get the COVID vaccine (or other vaccines), which is going to make eliminating this virus much more difficult than it should be.

The anaphylaxis issue hits close to home, and I was surprised by the lack of direct questions on the consent form. Your advice on allergies and anaphylactic responses is solid, which is why anaphylactic responses should be a separate question on the consent form, IMO, but we can disagree here.

I think you are painting me with a broad brush on "questioning the the safety and efficacy of vaccines." I have been questioning the rollout and disclosures associated with these vaccines especially considering the rapid development and deployment. And no, I never said I would NOT get a vaccine even though eligible. I said I would wait some time to see how the first round goes, and would prefer the J&J vaccine if it is approved, as I am more comfortable with the technology than the newer mRNA vaccines. I can continue to live in my bubble and still go on emergency service calls with a mask and take actions to protect myself while still providing the necessary services.
But one thing for sure, IMO, the WHO and CDC have some questionable credibility and their advice and guidance should be fact and scientifically checked.

 

[RU-05]

The Thanksgiving fear panic didnt produce but that didnt stop msm and corona bros from from lying and continuing their fear mongering..shameful

You are aware that December is the deadliest month of the pandemic thus far?

 

[RU-05]

In the scientific community, is there thought to be some benefit for those that have had covid to not get the vaccine so as to study how long the natural antibodies last?

 

[RU848789]

Does science involve going on national television and emphatically telling America...MASKS DON'T WORK...maybe stops one droplet

Not sure who you are referring to. I know it's not Fauci, since he never said that, but I'm guessing that's who you're referring to, as you continue to peddle that inaccurate version of events. He was not publicly as pro-mask as he was privately, but that was due to concerns over not having enough masks for health care workers, which are known to be protective for them. I've always said I wish he had been more supportive of masks early on, but there was also a lot of new data that came out on masks after his early March comments, which is likely why he was instrumental in getting the CDC to recommend general mask-wearing in early April.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...o-be-walking-around-with-a-mask-idUSKBN26T2TR

Danish mask study..can you tell me why it got suppressed for 3 months

Haven't followed that one, except for the fact that far too many people claimed it said masks don't work, when that was not the case at all.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/11/danish-study-doesnt-prove-masks-dont-work-against-the-coronavirus/

 

[RU-05]

Next up: Sweden proves masks are not needed to slow the transmission of Covid.

 

[ScarletNut]

In the scientific community, is there thought to be some benefit for those that have had covid to not get the vaccine so as to study how long the natural antibodies last?

My son is a resident at Christiana Hosp in Delaware. He had COVID about a month ago, recovered and was still advised to get the vaccine , which he did on Thursday. He felt flu-ish for 24 hrs

 

[pmvon]

Missed this on MSM in the US.

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Isn’t BBC MSM?

 

[Postman_1]

Bac, knight shift and RUBob are really crazy individuals. I mean like next level insane. I would ask everyone in this thread to stop replying to them. It is a waste of time to argue with people that have lost touch with reality and need help.

Actually I think @bac2therac and others have provided great info to this thread. So has @RU848789. The more u read on both sides the more you learn. If masks work so well why do states without mask mandates have similar curves to states that do?

 

[RU Cheese]

Bac, knight shift and RUBob are really crazy individuals. I mean like next level insane. I would ask everyone in this thread to stop replying to them. It is a waste of time to argue with people that have lost touch with reality and need help.

I don't agree often with Bac or Knight but they are usually very good posters.

 

[RU-05]

Actually I think @bac2therac and others have provided great info to this thread. So has @RU848789. The more u read on both sides the more you learn. If masks work so well why do states without mask mandates have similar curves to states that do?

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Still early in the process, I've argued quite often that deaths lag cases by a few weeks, but while the cases in december have eclipsed those in the spring, the deaths are still very much behind those in the early months.

 

[RuRats27]

While I tend to agree more with RU #s on this particular topic i still think it’s been good to get a contrary perspective from bac and the others. That back and forth, while at times unproductive, have elicited some great information from both sides and because of that I feel far more informed from this thread than I do from months following the virus through traditional media outlets.

 

[pmvon]

Question for numbers? Is remdesivir widely available? Limitations or criteria on giving to high risk patients?

 

[pmvon]

While I tend to agree more with RU #s on this particular topic i still think it’s been good to get a contrary perspective from bac and the others. That back and forth, while at times unproductive, have elicited some great information from both sides and because of that I feel far more informed from this thread than I do from months following the virus through traditional media outlets.

Be curious as to your insights here? In my view, the mask argument is silly other than maybe it creates a false sense of security. Common sense should tell you it reduces viral spread (real masks) but isn’t perfect. Of course it isn’t. We are taking about airborne virus that can also be transmitted through the eyes which was known early on. So what are we actually debating?

 

[Knight Shift]

Isn’t BBC MSM?

BBC is not US media. It was an interesting take from across the ocean from a country that is dealing with severe lockdown measures. Like here, there is a large, growing an vocal contingent that is against lockdowns.

 

[bac2therac]

Not sure who you are referring to. I know it's not Fauci, since he never said that, but I'm guessing that's who you're referring to, as you continue to peddle that inaccurate version of events. He was not publicly as pro-mask as he was privately, but that was due to concerns over not having enough masks for health care workers, which are known to be protective for them. I've always said I wish he had been more supportive of masks early on, but there was also a lot of new data that came out on masks after his early March comments, which is likely why he was instrumental in getting the CDC to recommend general mask-wearing in early April.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...o-be-walking-around-with-a-mask-idUSKBN26T2TR



Haven't followed that one, except for the fact that far too many people claimed it said masks don't work, when that was not the case at all.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/11/danish-study-doesnt-prove-masks-dont-work-against-the-coronavirus/

 

[Knight Shift]

Be curious as to your insights here? In my view, the mask argument is silly other than maybe it creates a false sense of security. Common sense should tell you it reduces viral spread (real masks) but isn’t perfect. Of course it isn’t. We are taking about airborne virus that can also be transmitted through the eyes which was known early on. So what are we actually debating?

Agree with you here, and if anyone who thinks I have argued otherwise for posting the WHO's own study refuting masks is confused. I wear masks in public places indoors at all times. When we took a flight in October, we double maskes- N-95 with a cloth mask over the N-95. Common sense indicates a mask will contain small vapor particles emitted from the nose and mouth. Where it is not so great is filtering/protecting, unless the mask is an N-95. Problem with an N-95 is that is uncomfortable to wear for a full 5 hours without a break.

 

[bac2therac]

Actually I think @bac2therac and others have provided great info to this thread. So has @RU848789. The more u read on both sides the more you learn. If masks work so well why do states without mask mandates have similar curves to states that do?

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The answer seems to be no matter what measure is taken or not the ups and downs of cases follow a similar trajectory

Remember when everyone was lauding Czech Republic for what they did and look what happened

 

[pmvon]

BBC is not US media. It was an interesting take from across the ocean from a country that is dealing with severe lockdown measures. Like here, there is a large, growing an vocal contingent that is against lockdowns.

Meh, if you watch BBC it doesn’t differ that much from other major news outlets that are considered MSM. Most European news outlets would be considered MSM by the Maga crowd. The anti lockdown crowd isn’t as large over there as it is here.

 

[RUBOB72]

I'm not upset, but you can't call someone "a real tool" and then say you are not attacking people personally.

🤡

Waiting on P3, which has 394 in trial and last patient injected 12/16 so 28 days later, 1/12 they will unblind. But FDA allowing EINd again , advising how doctors can use now, Leronlimab given a Medicare ICM code for payment starting 1/1 leads to the belief it will be approved soon. Dare I say the FDA has slow played this approval and did not grant EUA in the face of all the deaths, with 2 DSMB reviews for safety ( passed 100%) and efficacy ( passed as recommendation was to continue trial without modification and without adding people to trial to reach SS ) , while every other Big Pharma failed and no other drugs beating Leronlimab for approval. But hospitals continue to fill and people are dying at record numbers again . FDA also about to approve long hauler trial , so Leronlimab will be used for both. I would also use early in treatment as by Day 3 patients improve .

Thanks, for your arm-chair psychological diagnosis. Crazy or insane, or both? Everything I have posted is based on science, and backed up by scientists or scientific literature. If you can't handle a different viewpoint, skip over the post and don't attack people who don't agree with you. You have no idea what you are talking about. You sound like a close-minded jerkoff, and please put me on ignore.

Oh, and reported your post for attacking posters with no basis. Maybe try engaging in a rational debate, but you seem incapable. Cower from your keyboard.

Hilarious post especially with your beliefs that we are crazy and insane ... you must suck a lot of CNN ass ...attempting to analyze someone ‘s psyche from board banter ? Jesus you must be a real 🤡... you managed to absolve yourself of attacks on bac or myself and others....typical liberal ... take your head out of your ass ... you report others but not your board buds you’re laughable...

 

[RU-05]

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We've been through this one a million times, but Fauci's very first word are "the masks are important".

His final words are "that's the point it can lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need them".

Guys continuing to use this as evidence that masks don't work...........I just don't know really.

 

[bac2therac]

Opinion | Here's How to Think About the Danish Mask Study

What the DANMASK-19 trial showed and didn't show about mask use and COVID-19

www.medpagetoday.com

 

[RU-05]

🤡


Hilarious post especially with your beliefs that we are crazy and insane ... you must suck a lot of CNN ass ...attempting to analyze someone ‘s psyche from board banter ? Jesus you must be a real 🤡... you managed to absolve yourself of attacks on bac or myself and others....typical liberal ... take your head out of your ass ... you report others but not your board buds you’re laughable...

Who are you talking to?

 

[bac2therac]

We've been through this one a million times, but Fauci's very first word are "the masks are important".

His final words are "that's the point it can lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need them".

Guys continuing to use this as evidence that masks don't work...........I just don't know really.

Lol..if you believe that

Quite frankly how many did he kill as cases exploded...oh wait..ever want to address how much spread he was responsible for..nor much discussion...cant have it both ways

 

[bac2therac]

He could have been recommending cloth masks made at home..or for manufacturers to start producing them which they did a month later...he said people SHOULD NOT be wearing masks..are you sure he was asked...are you sure

 

[RUBOB72]

The answer seems to be no matter what measure is taken or not the ups and downs of cases follow a similar trajectory

Remember when everyone was lauding Slovakia for what they did and look what happened

Bac : Don’t waste your breathe on this self righteous coward... calling other people crazy or insane... man if that is typical liberal BS... I would love to chat face to face with an abrasive loud mouth.

 

[RU-05]

Opinion | Here's How to Think About the Danish Mask Study

What the DANMASK-19 trial showed and didn't show about mask use and COVID-19

www.medpagetoday.com

Go back and listen to Fauci's first sentence in that video you posted above.

 

[ArminRU]

Actually I think @bac2therac and others have provided great info to this thread. So has @RU848789. The more u read on both sides the more you learn. If masks work so well why do states without mask mandates have similar curves to states that do?

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Those charts are very misleading. You can post the same charts for the other side of the argument as well. Please stop using Twitter for research.

 

[RU-05]

Lol..if you believe that

Quite frankly how many did he kill as cases exploded...oh wait..ever want to address how much spread he was responsible for..nor much discussion...cant have it both ways

If we didn't have enough masks, and that was evident by the mask shortage early on, how can you claim he was responsible for any deahts.

 

[GORU2014]

Don't recall any warnings on this:

"The recent allergic reactions linked to Pfizer’s very similar vaccine prompted heated discussions during advisory panel discussions held this month by the F.D.A. and the C.D.C., with experts noting that anaphylaxis seemed to be occurring at an unusual frequency so soon into distribution."

"Boston Doctor Develops Severe Allergic Reaction After Getting Moderna Vaccine - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/25/health/Covid-moderna-vaccine-allergies.html

If you actually digested the things out there you’d recall.

Read the article. He has a severe allergy. Severe enough that he carries his own epipen and knew to self administer because he could feel the symptoms coming.

If you have a severe allergy it’s a risk. They make you wait for 15 minutes after getting the shot anyway and if you have a reaction you’ll get an epipen and probably be fine just like this guy.

It’s a shot. Don’t get the drama around it. Just get the damn shot when it’s available and try to remember if you have a severe enough allergy to something that you have to carry an epipen.

 

[bac2therac]

If we didn't have enough masks, and that was evident by the mask shortage early on, how can you claim he was responsible for any deahts.

We didnt wear masks for weeks...huge spreads in grocery stores

 

[bac2therac]

Those charts are very misleading. You can post the same charts for the other side of the argument as well. Please stop using Twitter for research.

Misleading...proof? Oh because you declared it out of hand got it

 

[bac2therac]

 

[RU-05]

Lol..if you believe that

Quite frankly how many did he kill as cases exploded...oh wait..ever want to address how much spread he was responsible for..nor much discussion...cant have it both ways

If I believe what? Those are the words he said. It's a 90 second video, rewatch it.

 

[Knight Shift]

If you actually digested the things out there you’d recall.

Read the article. He has a severe allergy. Severe enough that he carries his own epipen and knew to self administer because he could feel the symptoms coming.

If you have a severe allergy it’s a risk. They make you wait for 15 minutes after getting the shot anyway and if you have a reaction you’ll get an epipen and probably be fine just like this guy.

It’s a shot. Don’t get the drama around it. Just get the damn shot when it’s available and try to remember if you have a severe enough allergy to something that you have to carry an epipen.

Thanks for the advice. But I read the article three times. It seems you didn't and you are happy to see people put their lives in danger by simply carrrying their EpiPen. That did not work in this instance.

The article says that after administering the epi-pen:
"He was taken to the Emergency Department, evaluated, treated, observed and discharged." "He said that within minutes of the vaccine injection at 3:30 p.m., his heart rate had spiked to 150 beats per minute, about twice its normal cadence; his tongue prickled and went numb. Before long, he was drenched in a cold sweat and found himself feeling dizzy and faint. His blood pressure also plummeted, he said."

"Dr. Sadrzadeh used his EpiPen and was taken on a stretcher to the emergency room, where he was given several medications, including steroids and Benadryl, to calm the immune reactions that had overtaken his body. A record of his visit stated that he had been “seen in the ER for shortness of breath, dizziness, palpitations and numbness after receiving the Covid-19 vaccine.”

So, some of us may want to wait a while before just running off to "just get the damn shot when it is available." Why don't you let people make their own choices based on the information that is out there?

 

[RU-05]

We didnt wear masks for weeks...huge spreads in grocery stores

My business still has issues getting N95's. This after not being able to get them for 6 months.

 

[RUBOB72]

Lol..if you believe that

Quite frankly how many did he kill as cases exploded...oh wait..ever want to address how much spread he was responsible for..nor much discussion...cant have it both ways

My business still has issues getting N95's. This after not being able to get them for 6 months.

Thank China...lol

 

[bac2therac]

If I believe what? Those are the words he said. It's a 90 second video, rewatch it.

I saw it. He created this problem

 

[bac2therac]

My business still has issues getting N95's. This after not being able to get them for 6 months.

Most people aren't wearing n95s...so

 

[GORU2014]

Thanks for the advice. But I read the article three times. It seems you didn't and you are happy to see people put their lives in danger by simply carrrying their EpiPen. That did not work in this instance.

The article says that after administering the epi-pen:
"He was taken to the Emergency Department, evaluated, treated, observed and discharged." "He said that within minutes of the vaccine injection at 3:30 p.m., his heart rate had spiked to 150 beats per minute, about twice its normal cadence; his tongue prickled and went numb. Before long, he was drenched in a cold sweat and found himself feeling dizzy and faint. His blood pressure also plummeted, he said."

"Dr. Sadrzadeh used his EpiPen and was taken on a stretcher to the emergency room, where he was given several medications, including steroids and Benadryl, to calm the immune reactions that had overtaken his body. A record of his visit stated that he had been “seen in the ER for shortness of breath, dizziness, palpitations and numbness after receiving the Covid-19 vaccine.”

So, some of us may want to wait a while before just running off to "just get the damn shot when it is available." Why don't you let people make their own choices based on the information that is out there?

I did read it and you’re misquoting it, which isn’t surprising. Here are the key parts you left out because you’d rather try to win an argument than be legitimate:

“In the case on Thursday, Dr. Sadrzadeh said he brought his EpiPen to his vaccine appointment because of his serious allergies.”

““It was the same anaphylactic reaction that I experience with shellfish,” Dr. Sadrzadeh said.”

Nowhere does it say his Epipen didn’t work. He didn’t die so I’d say it worked pretty well.

Surely you know that if someone has an anaphylactic reaction in a hospital, they’re going to take them to the ED and not send them on their way regardless of their Epipen use.

Obviously, he wasn’t in bad enough shape to be admitted to an inpatient ward, since he left after 4 hours.

Clearly, the 15 minute waiting period after the shot worked, since the reaction was within minutes.

So again, if you have a history of severe allergic reactions, bring your Epipen if you want the shot and convey it to the person administering. For most people, this is not a serious threat.

 

[RU-05]

Most people aren't wearing n95s...so

No kidding, because they are not available, as they are now being allocated to the medical professionals.

Early on people were grabbing full boxes off the shelves. Paint respirators too. Nurses were forced to reuse their masks for weeks.