OT: COVID Science - Pfizer/Moderna vaccines >90% effective; Regeneron antibody cocktail looks very promising in phase II/III trial and more

[LETSGORU91]

a question for those in the first group to be vaccinated: Is NJ doing antibody testing of your group for the purpose of moving those without antibodies to the front of the line ahead of those who do have antibodies?

Antibody testing is not being done.

Antibodies are not a consideration for vaccination. First, it takes time to do that and second the antibody tests are not always accurate, and third, it's clear that the immune response raised by vaccination is usually superior to that from being infected/recovered, so everyone who can get a vaccine should.

Antibodies may not be a consideration, but prior, recent CV-19 infection is a consideration. While immune response may be greater from vaccination, those with acquired CV-19 antibodies have protection. They can get their vaccination later. Those with zero antibodies are the ones who need it now IMO.

Viruses NEED hosts to live. If viruses kill their hosts easily, they have nowhere to live.

Hence viruses usually mutate to become less deadly...so they survive.

That is a good point, but take bacteria and antibiotics as an example. Over the years, treatments were effective against bacteria. However antibiotics were over used, strains of bacteria mutated/evolved and are now resistant to many of our old tried and true antibiotics. This has put the health care system in danger because there are very few treatments for some very deadly bacteria. Any virus could theorhetically be able to take this path and become more harmful to its host.

Another pre-print pointing to long lasting immunity.

They should encourage people who were already infected to get in the back of the line, especially those under 50.

SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans

Infection or vaccination induces a population of long-lived bone marrow plasma cells (BMPCs) that are a persistent and essential source of protective antibodies1–5. Whether this population is induced in patients infected with the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) is un...

www.researchsquare.com

Agreed. Back of the line. CV-19 infected persons have antibodies which should provide adequate immunity. No reason to take the vaccine and leave those with no protection out on the porch until something is available for them. Some don't see it this way, but do we want many people with adequate protection? Or some with more than enough protection while others have zero until there is adequate availability for them?

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Whether deliberate or unintentional, it's still fake news and harmful.

yep, fake news with political motives.

 

[pmvon]

yep, fake news with political motives.

What’s the political motive?

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

What’s the political motive?

Ironic that you of a people would chime in 😂

 

[pmvon]

Ironic that you of a people would chime in 😂

Not sure why you think that’s ironic but why not just answer the question?

 

[RU#1fan]

Not sure why you think that’s ironic but why not just answer the question?

they can’t. Clowns

 

[tom1944]

I wonder if he knows it was an English nurse and story?

 

[RUBOB72]

Not sure why you think that’s ironic but why not just answer the question?

Political motive now that’s really funny . In the past 4-5 days a different tune has emerged from the same people who at every post would criticize it’s intent. The man stated an opinion on the article debunked as fake news and it is. Nothing changes the fact that there is a sudden change in the promotion of vaccines , their availability to the public in the USAand how some on this board still tell us all is going to be good by ... insert your time frame... late spring, mid summer or winter of 2022. Seems as China just vaccinated 50 million people is this accurate?

 

[cohwx]

Interesting idea. I remember the responses being fairly similar in some of the different dose sizes during early testing. Only problem is that there isn’t much testing to support it, but on paper it should work.

I believe the Moderna phase 2 study included both a full and half-dosing regimen. The groups were fairly small (few hundred I think) but antibody responses were similar for both. This suggests that using half-doses might work nearly as well as full doses. The problem, as I understand it, is that they don't have any results comparing the efficacy in terms of preventing symptomatic or severe covid, or whether the half dosing strategy would produce as long lasting an effect as the full dosing. So it would be a bit of a gamble to go ahead with a half-dosing approach, but obviously the idea of being able to vaccinate twice as many over the next few months is attractive.

I don't think Pfizer did a similar comparison (not sure) but I believe that the current dosing for the Pfizer vaccine is 1/2 the dosing for Moderna. They are similar vaccines so perhaps that is another indication that half dosing of Moderna would work well.

 

[rutgersdave]

Political motive now that’s really funny . In the past 4-5 days a different tune has emerged from the same people who at every post would criticize it’s intent. The man stated an opinion on the article debunked as fake news and it is. Nothing changes the fact that there is a sudden change in the promotion of vaccines , their availability to the public in the USAand how some on this board still tell us all is going to be good by ... insert your time frame... late spring, mid summer or winter of 2022. Seems as China just vaccinated 50 million people is this accurate?

Washington Post mentioned that China plans to vaccine 50 million a month. I heard that a national health care system has an easier way to getting everyone vaccine.

 

[tom1944]

The Shop Rite pharmacist told me they expect to receive the vaccine in March

 

[Joey Bags]

Washington Post mentioned that China plans to vaccine 50 million a month. I heard that a national health care system has an easier way to getting everyone vaccine.

You should probably note that China plans to vaccinate 50 million people a month who are in good standing with the Communist Party of China.

Those with subpar social credit scores won't have general access to the vaccine.

 

[RUBOB72]

Washington Post mentioned that China plans to vaccine 50 million a month. I heard that a national health care system has an easier way to getting everyone vaccine.

So 50 mil per month x 12 months =600 million. China has 1.4 billion citizens so 2 + years?

 

[RUBOB72]

The Shop Rite pharmacist told me they expect to receive the vaccine in March

3 months ( spring ) is that Pfizer or Moderna ? 1 injection dose ... 2 dose ... there is going to be a great deal of confusion especially amongst the general public. Right now these pharmacies CVS, Walgreens, Shop Rite are : 1 ) not quipped to vaccinate more than perhaps 100 per day...maybe? 2) you would need a facility capable of lines and even then , I would anticipate having to make appointments as was the case and pretty much still is for testing. Unless you know something concrete I would not be posting something on this board by what was told to you by the RX it is here-say and conjecture at this point. My suggestion is outdoor tents or large arenas where controls can be instituted and you also would need security in the form of police.

 

[tom1944]

She did not say. We just talked in passing in the store. I know her from the gym so we make small talk when I see her.

 

[RUBOB72]

She did not say. We just talked in passing in the store. I know her from the gym so we make small talk when I see her.

So Tom she actually knows nothing of value.,I think I ‘m correct in the issue with mass distributions .It is not being done in a Shop Rite store set up as we know it. Too slow a process ... they need to do what the military does and if they do it that way it can work . Set up several lines of multiple qualified nurses or RX and run them through like cattle. Have a holding area to keep people around for the required 15 minutes. All the companies Walgreens , CVS, Shop Rite and whomever better start planning for larger than expected people seeking vaccinations. People are sick not only from the virus.

 

[rurichdog]

I'm hoping my employer brings in nurses and mass vaxxes us on-site, like they offer with the flu every year. Sounds like Murf is aiming for NJ to use one of his Mass Vaccination Sites. Unless it is a drive-thru deal, that has sh*tshow written all over it.

 

[RUBOB72]

I'm hoping my employer brings in nurses and mass vaxxes us on-site, like they offer with the flu every year. Sounds like Murf is aiming for NJ to use one of his Mass Vaccination Sites. Unless it is a drive-thru deal, that has sh*tshow written all over it.

What you propose is a very good suggestion at least for companies with large groups. For years in our facility with 600 employees they would by shift bring in 2-3 nurses to give out flu injections for whomever wanted it. Sorry but if the governor has a plan ( which is unlikely) it should be news worthy. At least tell the public “ I’m leaning towards setting this up and in this manner”. Get people hopeful at least that someone is capable of a good decision.

 

[tom1944]

So Tom she actually knows nothing of value.,I think I ‘m correct in the issue with mass distributions .It is not being done in a Shop Rite store set up as we know it. Too slow a process ... they need to do what the military does and if they do it that way it can work . Set up several lines of multiple qualified nurses or RX and run them through like cattle. Have a holding area to keep people around for the required 15 minutes. All the companies Walgreens , CVS, Shop Rite and whomever better start planning for larger than expected people seeking vaccinations. People are sick not only from the virus.

Well she might know a lot of things of value we just did not get into a deep conversation by the oranges

 

[pmvon]

I'm hoping my employer brings in nurses and mass vaxxes us on-site, like they offer with the flu every year. Sounds like Murf is aiming for NJ to use one of his Mass Vaccination Sites. Unless it is a drive-thru deal, that has sh*tshow written all over it.

Saw an article that NY and Florida are putting pressure on hospitals to quicken the pace of vaccinations or they will lose doses. Not sure it’s fair to put pressure on hospitals overwhelmed with COVID patients or what the states will do with the doses they take away from hospitals. On a positive note, same article said Florida is now looking to add 1000 nurses going 7 days a week at state vaccination facilities. Now that’s what I talking about.

 

[pmvon]

On a separate note my father is out of the hospital and on the mend. Thanks to all for well wishes.

 

[mikemarc1]

On a separate note my father is out of the hospital and on the mend. Thanks to all for well wishes.

Best news on this thread.

 

[RUBOB72]

Well she might know a lot of things of value we just did not get into a deep conversation by the oranges

The Shop Rite article was posted today in NJ.com... 39 stores ...wish it were more.

 

[RU848789]

While we all wish the vaccinations were rolling out faster, they're obviously not, but I'm still hopeful we'll start catching up. The beginning of any rollout is always the hardest and we should get better at this. Still it's been disappointing at the Federal and State levels.

Anyway, there has been a lot of talk about possibly going to half doses or single full doses only or delayed 2nd doses (3 months later vs. 3-4 weeks later), like the UK is doing in order to get vaccines in more people more quickly, especially given the greater infectiousness of the UK variant (which most think the vaccines will still protect against; this variant is in the US too) and the FDA just issued their opinion on this, excerpted below, and I'm personally relieved to see them not going in that direction, yet, especially for the LTC-elderly, health care/front-line workers and the elderly in general, as the clinical data just don't support that approach yet.

Maybe that's an ok strategy for young/healthy people (not sure), but many prominent virologists have concerns about partially vaccinated/protected populations becoming a "laboratory" where vaccine resistance is accelerated, which would obviously not be a good thing. It's kind of a giant "experiment" and a big gamble to change the way these vaccines are administered.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pre...authorized-dosing-schedules-covid-19-vaccines

We have been following the discussions and news reports about reducing the number of doses, extending the length of time between doses, changing the dose (half-dose), or mixing and matching vaccines in order to immunize more people against COVID-19. These are all reasonable questions to consider and evaluate in clinical trials. However, at this time, suggesting changes to the FDA-authorized dosing or schedules of these vaccines is premature and not rooted solidly in the available evidence. Without appropriate data supporting such changes in vaccine administration, we run a significant risk of placing public health at risk, undermining the historic vaccination efforts to protect the population from COVID-19. The available data continue to support the use of two specified doses of each authorized vaccine at specified intervals.

Also, today, Derek Lowe weighed in on variants and vaccine schedules and you can tell he's unusually reserved on all of this, as he doesn't feel we have enough data to make obvious choices yet, as per the excerpt below. In addition, the 2nd link below is in his blog and it's to an interesting discussion in Stat of the pros and cons of the UK approach that's worth reading.

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/01/04/variants-and-vaccines

https://www.statnews.com/2021/01/04...accines-upping-the-stakes-for-the-rest-of-us/

I do not know how to make this decision. I really don’t. We have degrees of harm, probabilities of harm, logistics, timing, public health capabilities, politics and more to consider, and not a lot of time in which to consider them. Anyone who uses the phrase “no-brainer” to describe this call should be dropped from your list of people to take advice from. This is the opposite: it’s a decision that all our brainpower may still not be sufficient to make clear. But we’re going to have to make it anyway.

 

[CERU00]

they can’t. Clowns

Again with the name calling....can't help yourself?

 

[Scarlet16E]

I'm hoping my employer brings in nurses and mass vaxxes us on-site, like they offer with the flu every year. Sounds like Murf is aiming for NJ to use one of his Mass Vaccination Sites. Unless it is a drive-thru deal, that has sh*tshow written all over it.

This is a good idea for industrial settings and others were the workforce is on-site, but aren't most offices mostly empty, with everyone working from home?

 

[bac2therac]

Boston U forcing their hoops teams to wear masks during all gameplay ..lol.

 

[rurichdog]

This is a good idea for industrial settings and others were the workforce is on-site, but aren't most offices mostly empty, with everyone working from home?

It wasn't that long ago that people actually went to those offices. Every day, even. I wonder how we can ever get people to return to those empty office buildings.

 

[RUBOB72]

Boston U forcing their hoops teams to wear masks during all gameplay ..lol.

Well it’s Boston U that should explain it to everyone.

 

[bac2therac]

this is Japan where everyone wears masks

Japan poised for state of emergency as Covid-19 cases soar | CNN

Japan may enter a state of emergency this week as the country grapples with soaring coronavirus cases, a number of which have been linked to a new, potentially more infectious variant.

www.cnn.com

 

[sct1111]

Got the Moderna vaccine today first dose. So far just soreness at injection site. No other side effects. Feeling good.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Got the Moderna vaccine today first dose. So far just soreness at injection site. No other side effects. Feeling good.

Same here. Got it yesterday. Feels like I threw 7 long innings on short rest. Otherwise good to go so far.

 

[fsg2]

this is Japan where everyone wears masks

Japan poised for state of emergency as Covid-19 cases soar | CNN

Japan may enter a state of emergency this week as the country grapples with soaring coronavirus cases, a number of which have been linked to a new, potentially more infectious variant.

www.cnn.com

So what you're saying is that we need a full state of emergency shut down here, where numbers are so much worse by every metric and mask compliance less.

Don't think the absolute anti-mask freedom dunces are gonna like that, but ok.

 

[Postman_1]

Most U.S. COVID-19 vaccines go idle as New York, Florida move to penalize hospitals

More than two-thirds of the 15 million coronavirus vaccines shipped within the United States have gone unused, U.S. health officials said on Monday, as the governors of New York and Florida vowed to penalize hospitals that fail to dispense shots quickly.

www.reuters.com

 

[RuRats27]

South Carolina's Governor and state reps from both sides of the aisle are frustrated with the slow start. The Gov and State Reps have agreed that Phase 1A eligible people, not to include Long Term Care residents and workers, will have till January 15th to schedule their first shot or forfeit the chance till later in the process so as to facilitate the scheduling of Phase 1B (teachers, public workers, etc...) and Phase 1C (other essential workers) and getting the vaccine out to a greater number of people. Also once the phase 1A scheduling is done the scheduling for the other phases will move outside of the hospitals and to pharmacies, doctors offices, school clinics, etc... As a resident who is in the 1C phase and whos wife is in 1B I am anxious to get the process moving along.

 

[WhiteBus]

Philly Health Commissioner has blamed everyone but himself and his Department for the slow start to vaccinations. Blaming not enough deliveries yet he has only used less than 20% delivered. Also said starting a new process is part of the problem. The real problem is they had never started to plan until after the vaccine arrived. They had months to plan for this and failed to do anything.
He says it will get better but will take a year for all Philadelphians to get their full dose.

"To be clear, in a city of 1.6 million people, this is not enough," Farley said. "At this rate, it'll take more than 12 months to vaccinate the entire population of the city of Philadelphia. We certainly hope that the delivery of vaccines to us increases."

 

[goru1869]

So what you're saying is that we need a full state of emergency shut down here, where numbers are so much worse by every metric and mask compliance less.

Don't think the absolute anti-mask freedom dunces are gonna like that, but ok.

How's your head doing ?

 

[WhiteBus]

How's your head doing ?

Obviously not so good.

 

[fsg2]

How's your head doing ?

Good right now. Gets kinda cold walking the dog at night, though. Luckily I have a very nice collection of winter headwear - fully fleece-lined beanie, fur-lined trapper's hat, low-pro dock worker's beanie, oversized shell hood with elastic clinching (x 2), multiple NYY beanies ...you name it.

 

[fsg2]

Obviously not so good.

This must be one of those times Im stalking you 😂😂