OT: COVID Science - Pfizer/Moderna vaccines >90% effective; Regeneron antibody cocktail looks very promising in phase II/III trial and more
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I was just gonna ask the same question. If we had a uniform plan from the outset including distribution centers with the appropriate amount of personnel notified, set dates for each group based on priority (I personally like the state that set a deadline for vaccinations for a particular group so that there is no delay in progress) and mass communication via all methods to prevent confusion, this could have run more smoothly. I believe the federal govt should have handled this through the head of logistics (I forget the general's name). Letting each state figure it own on its own is a shitshow.
Yes because the Federal Government ended their job at the state lines, just like Covid rules. The states knews this and asked for control but forgot the planning part. Philly is actually a county of 1.6 million people. We are in restrictions harder than the entire state. Only county without indoor dinning in all of PA. I'm fine with that if they took vaccinations seriously. They haven't and today there is still no urgency.
Well we know that’s true in NJ . Murphy had no clue and whomever is his medical support advisers should be replaced like yesterday. We have many on this board who were predicting a much easier time of distributing the vaccine. Sorry but very big issues lie ahead for NJ and NY. The worst is the fiasco now with the online registration. There are thousands who have limited access and even the basic knowledge to get access. Many elderly are screwed but it’s ok we’ll make sure prisons are taken care of first . Tragic and wrong.
I know 2 people who have died pretty recently from a brain aneurysm . Then I just read about Dr Dre and his brain aneurysm.
My first Covid Symptom was a pretty severe headache, and thinking back just prior I had some sharp super short head aches.
Has there been any connection?
Edit: Googled it and found this too: GOP PA House Rep. Mike Reese dies from apparent brain aneurysm aged 42 - weeks after COVID diagnosis | Daily Mail Online
My first Covid Symptom was a pretty severe headache, and thinking back just prior I had some sharp super short head aches.
Has there been any connection?
Edit: Googled it and found this too: GOP PA House Rep. Mike Reese dies from apparent brain aneurysm aged 42 - weeks after COVID diagnosis | Daily Mail Online
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no relation between the two..as of now per doctor in PA. Covid has been linked to strokes..and being an aneurysm is basically the opposite of a stroke..probably not related
The state lawmaker who died of an aneurysm had COVID-19, but were the two conditions related?
Probably not, but the reason that Mike Reese’s aneurysm ruptured may remain unknown.
www.google.com
Lack of federal control of process has been a disaster from PPE, ventilators etc. inconsistent messaging etc. if you want 50 or more plans, it’s going to be less efficient. Only place on the planet doing it this way.
Yet you can not excuse the state's for failing. Going back to March the state's demanded control. And control they did. Sometimes stupidly. Even to this day. But they failed to plan and lead. They are the failure of vaccinations
Then go to all states and convince each state to give up their control they demanded back in March.
Here is what makes no sense. The states knew the vaccines were coming for months but never made a plan.
The plan should be made at the federal level with them bolstering state resources because the feds can ramp with nearly unlimited capability and financial resources and have the states administer within tight guidelines. Otherwise you get what we are seeing.
Should have been from the beginning. But that shipped sailed back in March. States took responsibility. States failing.
Certain states wanted control and certain states wanted more fed support. Feds need to create the structure and also resources. States can’t do that. Feds could have provided it all and allowed some flexibility within guidelines as I said. Every other country on earth does it this way. The feds also could have dictated to the states since they are distributing the vaccine. The feds chose not to. Fed fail.
We get it because of incompetent state and local leadership. When the states fail and some do ( such as NJ ) well immediately it’s blame the federal government. How convenient to do what they always do. Exactly the same issues going on back in February through June. Hawaii though smaller is getting their priorities straight as an example. Vaccinating anyone 16 and over with other issues as well as those over age 64-75 ... at least it’s what should be done here.
I haven’t read the whole thread but what do some of you in the field think about that new South African strain and the effectiveness of these treatments and prior infection conferring immunity?
www.cnbc.com
South African Covid variant appears to ‘obviate’ antibody drugs, Dr. Scott Gottlieb says
Dr. Scott Gottlieb explains why vaccinating Americans against Covid is critical, especially as the South Africa variant appears to inhibit antibody drugs.
I haven’t read the whole thread but what do some of you in the field think about that new South African strain and the effectiveness of these treatments and prior infection conferring immunity?
South African Covid variant appears to ‘obviate’ antibody drugs, Dr. Scott Gottlieb says
Dr. Scott Gottlieb explains why vaccinating Americans against Covid is critical, especially as the South Africa variant appears to inhibit antibody drugs.
It's Xenophobic to call it the South African variant, or UK Variant.
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no it doesnt. Each state is different and has different health rules and different covid concerns. We are a nation of states. States controlled lockdowns..they wanted it this way, they had plenty of time to prepare
This is what Japan does when they peak at 1/25th the case and death rates per capita of the US. And overall, despite the recent peak, they're still at about 1/40th the deaths per capita of the US. Doesn't mean they're not worried about their peak which is still 2-3X bigger than previous peaks, but relatively speaking, they're close to having successfully parried this virus (with vaccines rolling out) without decimating their country.
Come on man, this has already been disproven. They have different administrative priorities, NY is frontline workers and Florida is seniors. Overall, NY has administered 1500 per 100k and Florida is doing 1250. So if anything it’s going quicker in NY. My senior mother lives in Florida and has no clue how to get it. I do applaud the recent idea of hiring 1000 nurses to admin shots recently.
I haven’t read the whole thread but what do some of you in the field think about that new South African strain and the effectiveness of these treatments and prior infection conferring immunity?
South African Covid variant appears to ‘obviate’ antibody drugs, Dr. Scott Gottlieb says
Dr. Scott Gottlieb explains why vaccinating Americans against Covid is critical, especially as the South Africa variant appears to inhibit antibody drugs.
Im watching this closely as well, this might be a problem...
Came across this article which was a little more optimistic about our complex immune systems.
From the article:
But the complex human immune system response might still allow the body to block the virus from a variety of other directions. While the mutation could foil antibodies focused on that particular piece of the spike protein, it won't affect antibodies trained to look for other parts of the virus.
"It is analogous to a key and lock. If that lock changes, maybe the key can't get in," said Scott Hensley, an expert in immunology and molecular biology at the University of Pennsylvania.
"But imagine this not as a single door into a room, but 10 different doors. There will be nine other keys that will be able to get you into that room."
That's because people usually make more than one type of antibody against a virus.
"The human immune system is complicated, and it is likely that most of us have antibodies against multiple targets," Hensley told CNN. "It is likely these variants are not going to have a huge effect on the vaccine response."
Microbiologist Jesse Bloom of the University of Washington and colleagues found strong evidence this is the case.
In a preprint study posted Tuesday -- one that has not been peer reviewed or published in a scientific journal -- they described how the immune cells and antibodies in blood taken from 11 different people responded in many different ways to mutations in the virus.
For a few people, mutations allowed the virus to escape so called neutralizing antibodies, which stop the virus from getting into cells. But in blood serum taken from others, even mutant virus was overwhelmed by the variety of antibodies produced.
Here's how mutations could help the coronavirus evade vaccines | CNN
Scientists worry that mutated variants of coronavirus might evade the protection provied by vaccines. Here's how that might happen - and why some experts think it's not a major risk.
this is Japan where everyone wears masks
Japan poised for state of emergency as Covid-19 cases soar | CNN
Japan may enter a state of emergency this week as the country grapples with soaring coronavirus cases, a number of which have been linked to a new, potentially more infectious variant.www.cnn.com
It is interesting that a country with such stringent mask compliance is trending in such an upward pattern in cases and deaths. Maybe they have gotten as fed up with Covid-19 and become as lax as the US has over the past several months in maintaining social distancing and mask wearing. It's a little amusing to see their crisis mode numbers are nowhere even near that of the United States. But its all relative to each individual nation.
no relation between the two..as of now per doctor in PA. Covid has been linked to strokes..and being an aneurysm is basically the opposite of a stroke..probably not related
The state lawmaker who died of an aneurysm had COVID-19, but were the two conditions related?
Probably not, but the reason that Mike Reese’s aneurysm ruptured may remain unknown.
For the most part, that is true. Roughly 87% of strokes are embolic (clotting) in nature. The rest are ruptured vessels and associated to weakened arteries and high blood pressure which result in brain bleeds.
I haven't heard a correlation between CV-19 and ruptured brain arteries, but then again, nothing seems to surprise me with this virus any more.
I haven’t read the whole thread but what do some of you in the field think about that new South African strain and the effectiveness of these treatments and prior infection conferring immunity?
South African Covid variant appears to ‘obviate’ antibody drugs, Dr. Scott Gottlieb says
Dr. Scott Gottlieb explains why vaccinating Americans against Covid is critical, especially as the South Africa variant appears to inhibit antibody drugs.
That's quite concerning. I'd like to see some more experts weigh on on the SA variant to confirm its resistance to current medical treatments before hitting the panic button. Who knows, another strain may have escaped (or released from) the Wuhan lab recently.
The states would still be arguing about "Trump's failed plan" if his HHS secretary tried to issue a singular Federal plan. Then the coastal state governors could leap in front of the cameras with "a better plan that they came up with". And we'd still be stuck in this morass.
Is it?? I mean it wasn't very long ago that both Cuomo and Newsome stated they would not immediately accept or distribute the vaccines in their states without their own people doing their reviews of the drugs. So because of their own politics they more or less stated they were willing to delay vaccine distribution while people died. That's a fact. Those claims by these two inept failed leaders quickly disappeared but they were out in front pounding their desks saying this. Then once the vaccines started to roll out, they couldn't accept them fast enough.
Much like Cuomo back in March continuously pounded his desk during his ridiculous daily press conferences and said the federal government had no right to tell the individual states what to do. Inevitably you reap what you sow.
You haven't been paying attention.
At some point, needles have to go in arms. Each state was going to determine what was best for their residents regardless...so get to it already.
Once it was decided (at both the federal and state levels) that there should be priority for vaccination given to some over others, this long slow implementation became inevitable.
I understand why officials want to prioritize front-line medical workers and those at most risk, but doing that slows down the process. IMO it would be better to mass-vaccinate as many as possible as quickly as possible. This is a race to herd immunity, yet it's not being treated that way.
I understand why officials want to prioritize front-line medical workers and those at most risk, but doing that slows down the process. IMO it would be better to mass-vaccinate as many as possible as quickly as possible. This is a race to herd immunity, yet it's not being treated that way.
Yes it is. Trump was trying to push the approval of the vaccine through without proper testing to get it out before the elections. Who would trust something like that?
it’s not inconsistent to say that the federal government needs a competent plan and that states won’t agree to a vaccine that hasn’t followed science.
If anything, the virus was a layup given to Trump and the federal govt to win re-election. All he had to say was that this is a serious issue and just try to do anything at all. They were even doing that with Kushner’s commission. It all fell apart when they decided to disband it because they thought it would be politically beneficial to have the virus decimate blue areas (NY, NJ, Cali).
you don’t have to believe me. Check out the world leader approval ratings. Scott Morrison (right wing Australia) and Merkel (right wing Germany) saw massive spikes in approval rating for their response to the virus. Narendra Modi’s (right wing India) kept his approval rating high through huge economic issues and massive protests by making the virus the enemy of the people. These guys didn’t do anything crazy. They just listened to their health experts. Here we ignored our health experts because we wanted to play political games and it lost the Presidency for Republicans. They continued to play games and it’s increasingly looking like the electorate will take away the senate from the GOP too.
Its time from people in the GOP to accept that Trump can make mistakes and he did. It’s not healthy to just deny everything you don’t like. If they keep it up, they may do the unthinkable and let Democrats maintain all 3 branches of the government through a midterm election in 2022.
I think fed and states both get blame here. Not chop off their heads blame, but legit criticism.
Came across this article which was a little more optimistic about our complex immune systems.
From the article:
But the complex human immune system response might still allow the body to block the virus from a variety of other directions. While the mutation could foil antibodies focused on that particular piece of the spike protein, it won't affect antibodies trained to look for other parts of the virus.
"It is analogous to a key and lock. If that lock changes, maybe the key can't get in," said Scott Hensley, an expert in immunology and molecular biology at the University of Pennsylvania.
"But imagine this not as a single door into a room, but 10 different doors. There will be nine other keys that will be able to get you into that room."
That's because people usually make more than one type of antibody against a virus.
"The human immune system is complicated, and it is likely that most of us have antibodies against multiple targets," Hensley told CNN. "It is likely these variants are not going to have a huge effect on the vaccine response."
Microbiologist Jesse Bloom of the University of Washington and colleagues found strong evidence this is the case.
In a preprint study posted Tuesday -- one that has not been peer reviewed or published in a scientific journal -- they described how the immune cells and antibodies in blood taken from 11 different people responded in many different ways to mutations in the virus.
For a few people, mutations allowed the virus to escape so called neutralizing antibodies, which stop the virus from getting into cells. But in blood serum taken from others, even mutant virus was overwhelmed by the variety of antibodies produced.
Here's how mutations could help the coronavirus evade vaccines | CNN
Scientists worry that mutated variants of coronavirus might evade the protection provied by vaccines. Here's how that might happen - and why some experts think it's not a major risk.
Yeah from what I can tell, it sounds like worse case is that it drops vaccine efficacy down a little. Let’s hope that’s it.
This is the plan in Germany which seems to have it organized like the US.
COVID vaccination in Germany – a logistical challenge – DW – 12/17/2020
As the approval of a coronavirus vaccine is imminent, Germany is facing the logistical challenge of how to go about vaccinating its 80 million inhabitants.
www.dw.com
The federal government will cover the cost of the vaccinations and will organize the central storage and transport of the vaccine — €2.7 billion ($3 billion) has been earmarked for this. The 16 federal states will be responsible for distribution to the vaccine centers.
Italy is doing it centralized at the federal level:
The campaign will start with health care workers and staff, and residents in nursing homes, before moving to vulnerable groups such as the elders -- first the over-80s and then those between 60 and 80 years. The next group will be workers employed in essential sectors, including schools.
The Italian army will be directly involved in the distribution of the vaccine. "This is especially true for those (vaccine doses) requiring a standard cold chain," Speranza said, adding that the army is now planning carriers, modalities and logistics with Domenico Arcuri, the special commissioner for coronavirus emergency.
The campaign will be managed at a central level in the first phase, with a task force identifying all the specific hospitals and facilities where the vaccine will be administered across the country. Mobile health units will be deployed in order to reach the people who are physically impeded to reach the vaccination points.
Item to note on this. The mayor of my parents town in Italy jumped the line and got the virus first in his area.
Of course the states have to be involved but if you read that article the plan is coming from the top and a more concerted effort in working with the states.This is the plan in Germany which seems to have it organized like the US.
COVID vaccination in Germany – a logistical challenge – DW – 12/17/2020
As the approval of a coronavirus vaccine is imminent, Germany is facing the logistical challenge of how to go about vaccinating its 80 million inhabitants.
The federal government will cover the cost of the vaccinations and will organize the central storage and transport of the vaccine — €2.7 billion ($3 billion) has been earmarked for this. The 16 federal states will be responsible for distribution to the vaccine centers.
Italy is doing it centralized at the federal level:
The campaign will start with health care workers and staff, and residents in nursing homes, before moving to vulnerable groups such as the elders -- first the over-80s and then those between 60 and 80 years. The next group will be workers employed in essential sectors, including schools.
The Italian army will be directly involved in the distribution of the vaccine. "This is especially true for those (vaccine doses) requiring a standard cold chain," Speranza said, adding that the army is now planning carriers, modalities and logistics with Domenico Arcuri, the special commissioner for coronavirus emergency.
The campaign will be managed at a central level in the first phase, with a task force identifying all the specific hospitals and facilities where the vaccine will be administered across the country. Mobile health units will be deployed in order to reach the people who are physically impeded to reach the vaccination points.
Item to note on this. The mayor of my parents town in Italy jumped the line and got the virus first in his area.
Exhibition halls, concert halls, supermarket storage facilities, hotels and former refugee centers are among the 440 locations across the country where vaccinations will be administered. Indoor playgrounds and youth hostels are still to be made available.
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