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OT: Electric vehicles

Humans have difficulty conceptualizing exponential growth.
its easy to grow exponentially when your numbers were small to begin with. once you start getting to orders of magnitude, rate of growth as a % looks much different.

1 to 2 is 100% growth. 200 to 300 is 50% growth. 1 million to 1.2 million is only 20% growth. to get from, let's say, 1.2m new EV's sold this year in the US to 8.5m (50% of the volume of cars sold in a year - 17m) is something very very different.
 
The next electric Dodge Charger? link

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How is the electric range- is it truly 35
How is the electric range- is it truly 35 miles?
Well I would recommend staying away from this car! Had to have it towed to dealer yesterday since car would not start.car has main battery and computer issues that service dept. have no idea how to fix. They have Volvo Sweden involved in car evaluation. 2 months old and serious problems showing up. Otoh when car was running we were getting 43-46 miles on electric.
 
Well I would recommend staying away from this car! Had to have it towed to dealer yesterday since car would not start.car has main battery and computer issues that service dept. have no idea how to fix. They have Volvo Sweden involved in car evaluation. 2 months old and serious problems showing up. Otoh when car was running we were getting 43-46 miles on electric.
We just completed purchase of the S60 Plug-In Hybrid Extended Range.

Hopefully, your problem gets fixed. From what we could find, Volvo vehicles are average in reliability.

But the reviews for the XC60 Hybrid on Edmunds are horrific:

 
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Have you driven the XC60, and if yes, what has your real world electric range been?
The real world electric range during the South Florida summer has been from 38 to 43 miles depending on conditions such as Highway vs City driving. i have just under 1000 miles and I have yet to use my second gallon of gas.

I am aware of the electrical and software issues and so far I have been very lucky in that regard but I must say it is distressing to read about the problems that other owners are having
 
The real world electric range during the South Florida summer has been from 38 to 43 miles depending on conditions such as Highway vs City driving. i have just under 1000 miles and I have yet to use my second gallon of gas.

I am aware of the electrical and software issues and so far I have been very lucky in that regard but I must say it is distressing to read about the problems that other owners are having
I know you have the XC60, but we are considering the sedan, the S60 Plug-In Hybrid Extended Range. Can they make the names any longer so they never roll off the tongue?

This has nothing to do with range, but may be a deal killer. It seems the higher end Volvo models have a button on the top of the rear seat that one pushes to allow the seats to be folded down. I think this is a common feature in most sedans? For example, you may have an item that is too large to put in the trunk sideways, and you simply fold the seat down and slide it in from the back of the trunk.

In the S60, Volvo eliminated the button. When we asked the salesperson how do you fold down the seat, he said that you have to lay back in the trunk on your back, reach up and press a spring or a lever. He could not do it, and he apologized saying that he was too fat to do it. I am imagining a woman in a dress trying to do this, in the mall parking lot, lying on her back trying to release the seats to place a longer item in the trunk. What are they thinking?

This is for a Volvo, which I thought was a luxury car. One guy on the Volvo forums provided a "fix" for the S90 that has the same problem, but your average Volvo buyer is not going to bother.




EDIT- so, we went back to the dealer to cancel the car, and the salesperson neglected to point out that our vehicle has the premium package with the buttons to release the back seats from inside the car. That option is $1800, which is insanely high in price.
Our saleseperson was too honest and almost killed the deal with disinformation on electric range and how to fold the back seats. But the premium package has other good features such as: a hands-free trunk lid, rear parking sensors, auto-dimming rearview and side mirrors, blind-spot monitoring, rear cross-traffic alert, rear automatic emergency braking, keyless entry, and an automatic parking system.
 
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New Lucid Air Sapphire - 1,200 hp, 0 to 100 mph in under 4 seconds, torque vectoring at the rear and four doors. If they can also keep range at or near 500 mi, that will be a hell of a vehicle

Looks nice. And the wheels aren't totally ugly, like most EVs and a fare amount of late model ICEVs these days.
 
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I know you have the XC60, but we are considering the sedan, the S60 Plug-In Hybrid Extended Range. Can they make the names any longer so they never roll off the tongue?

This has nothing to do with range, but may be a deal killer. It seems the higher end Volvo models have a button on the top of the rear seat that one pushes to allow the seats to be folded down. I think this is a common feature in most sedans? For example, you may have an item that is too large to put in the trunk sideways, and you simply fold the seat down and slide it in from the back of the trunk.

In the S60, Volvo eliminated the button. When we asked the salesperson how do you fold down the seat, he said that you have to lay back in the trunk on your back, reach up and press a spring or a lever. He could not do it, and he apologized saying that he was too fat to do it. I am imagining a woman in a dress trying to do this, in the mall parking lot, lying on her back trying to release the seats to place a longer item in the trunk. What are they thinking?

This is for a Volvo, which I thought was a luxury car. One guy on the Volvo forums provided a "fix" for the S90 that has the same problem, but your average Volvo buyer is not going to bother.




EDIT- so, we went back to the dealer to cancel the car, and the salesperson neglected to point out that our vehicle has the premium package with the buttons to release the back seats from inside the car. That option is $1800, which is insanely high in price.
Our saleseperson was too honest and almost killed the deal with disinformation on electric range and how to fold the back seats. But the premium package has other good features such as: a hands-free trunk lid, rear parking sensors, auto-dimming rearview and side mirrors, blind-spot monitoring, rear cross-traffic alert, rear automatic emergency braking, keyless entry, and an automatic parking system.
Maybe you should look into what I have. The Ford Escape SEL PHEV. Has everything you just listed except the automatic parking system. Maybe the Escape Titanium would have that. I'm enjoying the 4 EV modes - EV Auto, EV Now, EV Later and EV Charging.
I have the 2022, but here's an article on the EV modes.
I'm reducing the amount of gas miles remaining so it shows approx. 50-60 miles. Then I'll get $5 of gas to keep fresh gas in the tank. If I plan to go on a long trip I'll fill the tank.
Right now 662 miles on the car. Used approx 55 gas miles so far and have an estimated 209 miles left in the tank. Half the gas miles were driving home from the dealers because the didn't charge it up.
 
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Maybe you should look into what I have. The Ford Escape SEL PHEV. Has everything you just listed except the automatic parking system. Maybe the Escape Titanium would have that. I'm enjoying the 4 EV modes - EV Auto, EV Now, EV Later and EV Charging.
I have the 2022, but here's an article on the EV modes.
I'm reducing the amount of gas miles remaining so it shows approx. 50-60 miles. Then I'll get $5 of gas to keep fresh gas in the tank. If I plan to go on a long trip I'll fill the tank.
Right now 662 miles on the car. Used approx 55 gas miles so far and have an estimated 209 miles left in the tank. Half the gas miles were driving home from the dealers because the didn't charge it up.
We could not locate an Escape the way we wanted it configured. It is ultimately for my wife, and I wanted her to be sure she was happy with the car. We probably would not have gotten as high a trade if we traded for Ford, and we did well overall. The Volvo comes with 3 years of complimentary service too.
 
Saw my first Rivian on the road yesterday. Front end is a little cartoonish, but very distinctive, knew what it was at first glance.

Was a drive by but the truck looked cool otherwise.
 
So my first Rivian on the road yesterday. Front end is a little cartoonish, but very distinctive, knew what it was at first glance.

Was a drive by but the truck looked cool otherwise.

Have seen a few on the road (and at multiple debut events back in 2018).

I guess it's polarizing, but I like the front-end, especially compared to the massive, busy faces of modern full-size trucks and some mid-size. But I like distinctive lighting signatures, especially for EVs.
 
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its easy to grow exponentially when your numbers were small to begin with. once you start getting to orders of magnitude, rate of growth as a % looks much different.

1 to 2 is 100% growth. 200 to 300 is 50% growth. 1 million to 1.2 million is only 20% growth. to get from, let's say, 1.2m new EV's sold this year in the US to 8.5m (50% of the volume of cars sold in a year - 17m) is something very very different.
I think the topic here is EV growth, not Tesla growth.

The EV growth is without a doubt happening, just look to the investment by automakers worldwide into new EV and battery plants.

For Tesla to experience continued growth like they have seen through their history thus far, they will have to build a bunch more plants, which as of now there is no plans. Modest expansion at current plants but they will need more than that to continue on their current growth path.
 
I think the topic here is EV growth, not Tesla growth.

The EV growth is without a doubt happening, just look to the investment by automakers worldwide into new EV and battery plants.

For Tesla to experience continued growth like they have seen through their history thus far, they will have to build a bunch more plants, which as of now there is no plans. Modest expansion at current plants but they will need more than that to continue on their current growth path.

A few comments,

Tesla is still ramping up two new plants in Austin and Berlin. Compare the 2022 vehicle production forecasts for Fremont versus Austin and Berlin. There is still a huge amount of growth potential for Tesla at its four existing plants.



The other is Tesla is planning for additional new plants. I don't know which - or any - of these articles will prove to be correct, but there's a lot going on.



 
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Interesting note in my town. Big influx of VW ID4s and a handful of Rivian. Decreasing numbers of Mach-E. Its the one EV you can buy off the lot but cheapest model is in the 60s.
 
I think the topic here is EV growth, not Tesla growth.

The EV growth is without a doubt happening, just look to the investment by automakers worldwide into new EV and battery plants.

For Tesla to experience continued growth like they have seen through their history thus far, they will have to build a bunch more plants, which as of now there is no plans. Modest expansion at current plants but they will need more than that to continue on their current growth path.
I've tried to explain this to you before. You're still not getting it. Tesla constantly sandbags their production capacity.
Shanghai started at 400k capacity. They're now over 1 million. Soon to be 1.5 million sometime next year. Rinse and repeat for Berlin and Austin, but double those numbers. They continue to aquire land around their existing facilities. And yes, they're building new factories too. Expect an announcement before the end of the year.

There's a reason the stock analysis you listen to constantly upgrade their production and earnings estimates. Those guys couldn't tell you what a cathode is despite the fact that Tesla will have 2 cathode production facilities on site. They're clueless. If you want to get into the weeds, follow the Tesla retail community....see above.
 
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This really has nothing to do with electric vehicles, and the article is behind a paywall.

Eagerly awaiting my F150 Lightning and reducing my carbon footprint.

We also bought a Volvo S60 Recharge Extended Range Plug in, with 41 miles of electric range.

 
The whole "looming recession" thing is a BS excuse that companies use when they would really like to do a round of layoffs. The real reasons are often not quite as easy to spot, although in this case, pandemic-borne supply-chain issues that mean production is slowed a lot, and thus not so many people are required for various tasks, is more likely the culprit.
 
The whole "looming recession" thing is a BS excuse that companies use when they would really like to do a round of layoffs. The real reasons are often not quite as easy to spot, although in this case, pandemic-borne supply-chain issues that mean production is slowed a lot, and thus not so many people are required for various tasks, is more likely the culprit.
Supply-chain issues is part of the cause of looming recession. Why is that BS?
 
The whole "looming recession" thing is a BS excuse that companies use when they would really like to do a round of layoffs. The real reasons are often not quite as easy to spot, although in this case, pandemic-borne supply-chain issues that mean production is slowed a lot, and thus not so many people are required for various tasks, is more likely the culprit.


its pretty much in response to the bogus bill passed last week..note they also raised the price of the f150 right after that bill was passed
 
This really has nothing to do with electric vehicles, and the article is behind a paywall.

Eagerly awaiting my F150 Lightning and reducing my carbon footprint.

We also bought a Volvo S60 Recharge Extended Range Plug in, with 41 miles of electric range.

This really has nothing to do with electric vehicles, and the article is behind a paywall.

Eagerly awaiting my F150 Lightning and reducing my carbon footprint.

We also bought a Volvo S60 Recharge Extended Range Plug in, with 41 miles of electric range.



are you getting 30% off your solar panels and appliances too bahahaha
 
A few comments,

Tesla is still ramping up two new plants in Austin and Berlin. Compare the 2022 vehicle production forecasts for Fremont versus Austin and Berlin. There is still a huge amount of growth potential for Tesla at its four existing plants.



The other is Tesla is planning for additional new plants. I don't know which - or any - of these articles will prove to be correct, but there's a lot going on.



If that 1st table is right, then Tesla will not hit their 50% YOY growth. It’s the only projection they provide.
 
Supply-chain issues is part of the cause of looming recession. Why is that BS?
It’s BS that they’re laying people off because of something that hasn’t happened yet. They’re laying people off because of something, or some things, that already happened.

 
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If that 1st table is right, then Tesla will not hit their 50% YOY growth. It’s the only projection they provide.
6 week Shanghai lockdown. That's 70-80k units. Maybe only 47% YOY growth. Oh! The humanity!
We'll see though. Tesla has a habit of pulling a rabbit out of their hat.
 
6 week Shanghai lockdown. That's 70-80k units. Maybe only 47% YOY growth. Oh! The humanity!
We'll see though. Tesla has a habit of pulling a rabbit out of their hat.
Love the moving goalposts. It’s not a big deal unless you are a shareholder. Can’t be good for the stock. But the fan club might not care.
 
its pretty much in response to the bogus bill passed last week..note they also raised the price of the f150 right after that bill was passed

The F150 Lightning price increase has been in the works for weeks/months before they officially announced it. It's not like Ford woke up on August 10th and said, gee, a new bill is getting passed in the House this week, we need to raise our prices. LOL.
 
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I'm not an avid investor, but is being off 3% on a 50% projection a big deal to shareholders. Hey- I knew what YOY meant--YAY!!!
The 50% YOY growth was the only guidance Tesla gives. It’s a number they should be beat by 50% for the next few years. Now tell me what YAY stands for.
 
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