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OT: Electric vehicles

OK, I’ll throw it out there….this marathon thread warrants a meet up for its regulars at a game.
No Wagner for me but Temple in Philly, Iowa and Nebby are definite.
I’ll be the guy with the EV. 👍🏼
 

California heat wave leaves thousands without power​

California’s power grid is in turmoil as heatwaves engulf the state. Officials proposed rolling blackouts to counteract the strain and the state’s Independent System Operator issued an emergency alert watch.

 
Ok smartass what’s the point?

There are several.

1. If you're using memes to do your heavy lifting, you're not a serious person and will be ignored by most other serious people.

2. The supply of lithium is finite, but then so is the product life cycle of lithium batteries. Alternative are already under development.

3. So the guy was charging his car with a generator. So what? It's still a lot cheaper than putting gas in an ICE vehicle.
 
There are several.

1. If you're using memes to do your heavy lifting, you're not a serious person and will be ignored by most other serious people.

2. The supply of lithium is finite, but then so is the product life cycle of lithium batteries. Alternative are already under development.

3. So the guy was charging his car with a generator. So what? It's still a lot cheaper than putting gas in an ICE vehicle.
1. Not using memes to do my heavy lifting. Laughing at you and all the other EV cultists
2. You ignore vast environmental damage mining for the raw minerals for batteries do to the environment. Strip mining hundreds of thousands of acres of land Way worse than drilling for fossil fuels.
3. You and your ilk will never admit to the absurdities and downright falsities of the EV is better for the environment. So California who does not have adequate electric infrastructure to even handle a heatwave is banning ice cars. California is a disaster, which doesn’t bother me unless they start with this bullshit in NJ.
 
Eliminate gasoline and diesel and you still have a large number of refined byproducts. You still have to drill to get them.
If you eliminate the gas & diesel what do you have left? Can you refine a barrel of oil and not produce any gasoline and diesel, only the other byproducts?
The vast majority of oil is refined for gas and diesel. The expense of refining oil for smaller byproducts goes up as demand for oil and diesel goes down.
 

California heat wave leaves thousands without power​

California’s power grid is in turmoil as heatwaves engulf the state. Officials proposed rolling blackouts to counteract the strain and the state’s Independent System Operator issued an emergency alert watch.


This is a lie. California's power grid is not in turmoil.
 
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This is a lie. California's power grid is not in turmoil.

California's electrical grid has an EV problem​



California energy officials issued a sobering warning this month, telling residents to brace for potential blackouts as the state’s energy grid faces capacity constraints heading into the summer months.

In Sacramento, officials said California’s grid could face a potential shortfall of roughly 1,700 megawatts, which would affect the power supply of between 1 million and 4 million people this summer. That number would likely be exacerbated by an additional shortfall of 5,000 megawatts in the case of extreme heat and further fire damage to existing power lines.

And since the state has committed to phase out all new gas-powered vehicles by 2035 — well ahead of federal targets — the additional load from electric vehicle (EV) charging could add more strain to the electric grid.

“Let’s say we were to have a substantial number of [electric] vehicles charging at home as everybody dreams,” Ram Rajagopal, an associate professor of Civil and Environmental Engineering at Stanford University, who authored a recent studylooking at the strain electric vehicle adoption is expected to place on the power grid, told Yahoo Finance. “Today’s grid may not be able to support it. It all boils down to: Are you charging during the time solar power is on?”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/californias-electrical-grid-has-an-ev-problem/ar-AAXsHfT
 
Hahaha!

lpqXrUkygDDyhQ30.jpeg
 
2. You ignore vast environmental damage mining for the raw minerals for batteries do to the environment. Strip mining hundreds of thousands of acres of land Way worse than drilling for fossil fuels.
For it to be possible for someone to really believe this, especially with the devastating fracking process in full swing at hundreds of thousands of locations in the U.S. alone, makes you the swallower of the most absurd, easily-debunked nonsense out there. I’m certain you picture in your mind an image of a copper mine that made the meme rounds for years that your ilk sent to me weekly. But sure, forget what they're doing in Canada to the wring out the oil sands over far larger acreage than metal mines or the thousands of incredibly toxic chemicals used to push oil out at each and every one of those fracking sites.
Notice I’m not even referencing what happens when transport/sea drilling spills occur or when you burn ffs, something that don’t pose any hazard or happen at all with battery metal mining and transportation.
You’re a buffoon, dude. May thinking family members not laugh at you audibly at gatherings in your final years.
 
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1. Not using memes to do my heavy lifting. Laughing at you and all the other EV cultists
2. You ignore vast environmental damage mining for the raw minerals for batteries do to the environment. Strip mining hundreds of thousands of acres of land Way worse than drilling for fossil fuels.
3. You and your ilk will never admit to the absurdities and downright falsities of the EV is better for the environment. So California who does not have adequate electric infrastructure to even handle a heatwave is banning ice cars. California is a disaster, which doesn’t bother me unless they start with this bullshit in NJ.

You didn't address my points directly, then followed up with another stupid meme.

Congrats, you're blocked.
 
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How Electric Car Batteries Are Made: From Mining To Driving​

The massive 300-550 kg battery packs that go into electric cars are probably the most important component by far, just like the importance of an internal combustion engine to a traditional car. However, the journey that these lithium-ion batteries make when being produced is a very interesting one: from multiple (sometimes unsafe) mines in far-off countries to being packaged into a powerful, high capacity battery which can drive a car forward at very high speeds.

So how exactly are these lithium-ion batteries for electric cars made? The short answer is that a number of rare metals need to be dug out of the earth from various mines. These are then packaged into small individual battery cells (alongside other materials such as plastic, aluminum, and steel), before themselves being packed into battery modules. The end result is a battery pack which is made up of multiple battery modules, a cooling system/mechanism and a small electrical power management system.


How Rare Metals Are Mined​

The process of mining the rare metals varies depending on the mine, however our ‘Electric Cars Aren’t Green?’ sums up how some of the mines operate:

At a mine in Jiangxi, China, workers use ammonium sulfate poured into big holes to dissolve the clay.

  • What’s left is hauled out of the ever-expanding hole, before being run through multiple acid baths to dissolve other unwanted compounds.
  • The resulting compounds are baked in a kiln, finally revealing the rare metals required in electric car batteries.
  • Just 0.2% of the result is the rare metals; the other 99.8% is waste.
  • This 99.8% waste earth (and other compounds) – which is now contaminated with toxic material – is dumped back into the originally-created holes.


https://www.greencarfuture.com/electric/making-of-ev-batteries
 

How Electric Car Batteries Are Made: From Mining To Driving​

The massive 300-550 kg battery packs that go into electric cars are probably the most important component by far, just like the importance of an internal combustion engine to a traditional car. However, the journey that these lithium-ion batteries make when being produced is a very interesting one: from multiple (sometimes unsafe) mines in far-off countries to being packaged into a powerful, high capacity battery which can drive a car forward at very high speeds.

So how exactly are these lithium-ion batteries for electric cars made? The short answer is that a number of rare metals need to be dug out of the earth from various mines. These are then packaged into small individual battery cells (alongside other materials such as plastic, aluminum, and steel), before themselves being packed into battery modules. The end result is a battery pack which is made up of multiple battery modules, a cooling system/mechanism and a small electrical power management system.


How Rare Metals Are Mined​

The process of mining the rare metals varies depending on the mine, however our ‘Electric Cars Aren’t Green?’ sums up how some of the mines operate:

At a mine in Jiangxi, China, workers use ammonium sulfate poured into big holes to dissolve the clay.

  • What’s left is hauled out of the ever-expanding hole, before being run through multiple acid baths to dissolve other unwanted compounds.
  • The resulting compounds are baked in a kiln, finally revealing the rare metals required in electric car batteries.
  • Just 0.2% of the result is the rare metals; the other 99.8% is waste.
  • This 99.8% waste earth (and other compounds) – which is now contaminated with toxic material – is dumped back into the originally-created holes.


https://www.greencarfuture.com/electric/making-of-ev-batteries

You left out the most important part:


"Overall though, Ricardo’s research is key. Their finding that electric cars produce 5,000 kg (5 tonnes) less of greenhouse gas emissions (compared to gas-guzzlers) over their lifetime is great news; EVs definitely are better for the environment than gasoline-cars!"
 
I liked that DummyNinny characterized me as some kind of EV fanboy, when I've never owned one. In fact, I haven't owned a car in the last decade that's had less than 300bhp of internal combustion under the hood.

What I know, and what our pet Special Case doesn't seem to understand, is that within a decade electric vehicles will outnumber ICE vehicles on roads in the U.S. This is an inevitability. People can argue the pros / cons of type production and whatnot, but at the end of the day those arguments are purely religious in nature. Nothing will stop the steady march of the EV takeover. Nothing. BunnyKitty can protest all he wants, he can post all the moronic memes he can find, but he's just another one of those weird angry people shaking their fists at the clouds of progress that threaten to dim the light of his personal, closeted existence.
 
I liked that DummyNinny characterized me as some kind of EV fanboy, when I've never owned one. In fact, I haven't owned a car in the last decade that's had less than 300bhp of internal combustion under the hood.

What I know, and what our pet Special Case doesn't seem to understand, is that within a decade electric vehicles will outnumber ICE vehicles on roads in the U.S. This is an inevitability. People can argue the pros / cons of type production and whatnot, but at the end of the day those arguments are purely religious in nature. Nothing will stop the steady march of the EV takeover. Nothing. BunnyKitty can protest all he wants, he can post all the moronic memes he can find, but he's just another one of those weird angry people shaking their fists at the clouds of progress that threaten to dim the light of his personal, closeted existence.
I see, from your new avatar, that you and I are in agreement that we need better leadership options from both sides. And that we don't have high hopes it'll happen. 😃
 
I liked that DummyNinny characterized me as some kind of EV fanboy, when I've never owned one. In fact, I haven't owned a car in the last decade that's had less than 300bhp of internal combustion under the hood.

What I know, and what our pet Special Case doesn't seem to understand, is that within a decade electric vehicles will outnumber ICE vehicles on roads in the U.S. This is an inevitability. People can argue the pros / cons of type production and whatnot, but at the end of the day those arguments are purely religious in nature. Nothing will stop the steady march of the EV takeover. Nothing. BunnyKitty can protest all he wants, he can post all the moronic memes he can find, but he's just another one of those weird angry people shaking their fists at the clouds of progress that threaten to dim the light of his personal, closeted existence.

That's what makes it so funny. These fools think they're protesting meaningfully like it's 2013.
 

EV Car Batteries Destroy the Environment and Violate Human Rights​

Automotive companies and environmentalists herald electric vehicles as one of the solutions to addressing environmental problems such as the climate change crisis and air pollution. With their electric powertrains, EVs produce zero carbon emissions. However, electric vehicles have a dirty secret: the lithium and cobalt that are in EV car batteries destroy the environment and violate human rights.

Electric vehicles hold much promise for addressing environmental problems. However, as currently built, EVs contribute to environmental problems in ways that many people might not even realize. As detailed by the Institute for Energy Research, lithium-ion batteries in electric vehicles have a considerable negative impact on the environment.
Lithium mining requires a massive amount of water, which is increasingly in short supply in many regions of the world. Approximately 500,000 gallons of water get used for every ton of lithium mined. To extract lithium, “miners drill a hole in salt flats and pump salty, mineral-rich brine to the surface.” The water then evaporates after several months, which leaves lithium and other minerals.

The Lithium Triangle in South America, which includes portions of Bolivia, Chile, and Argentina, contains more than half of the world’s supply of lithium. The region is also very dry. In Chile’s Salar de Atacama, lithium mining consumes 65% of the region’s water. The problem is so bad that farmers and other people in the local communities have to get water elsewhere.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/ev-car-batteries-destroy-environment-violate-human-rights/
 

Building EVs Worse For Environment Than Gas-Powered Cars​


If we told you a decade ago that Ford would release two electric vehicles - one badged as a Mustang and one being an F-150 truck - you wouldn't have believed us. But here we are in 2021 and both the Mustang Mach-E and the F-150 Lightning exist. Each is proof that electric powertrains are no longer just lauded for zero tailpipe emissions but they are good enough to be used in almost any vehicle type.
However, the specific construction requirements of EVs have a downside in terms of carbon emissions that Simon Powell from global thematic research firm Jefferies has termed "embedded carbon". This puts them at a disadvantage relative to an equivalent gas vehicle.

Due to the extra weight of EVs, they are at a disadvantage when they leave the factory. Their bodies contain more steel, the battery packs weigh a lot, and systems like the brakes have to be reinforced to cope. All of this increases the rate at which carbon is released when EVs are manufactured relative to gas-powered vehicles.
"To gain the environmental dividend that governments are looking for, users are going to have to keep them longer [and] drive them further than they may have done with a conventional internal combustion energy vehicle," said Powell when speaking to CNBC's Street Signs Asia. No specific indication was given on how much further an EV would need to be driven to offset the carbon emissions during production.

Considering that EVs are expected to get even more affordable thanks to more appealing incentives, many consumers buying these vehicles are also enjoying the peace of mind that theoretically comes with driving a less polluting car that doesn't use gas. However, Powell's claims indicate that we aren't quite there yet and we may not be for some time to come.
"The way this whole thing gets solved is greener steel," said Powell. "The use of hydrogen in the manufacturing process for steel, as well, is something to look at."
Powell also suggested that improving battery technology with more energy-dense cells will help to decrease the weight of EVs, thereby decarbonizing the sector. Right now, though, that Tesla Model 3 or Ford Mustang Mach-E may not be as green as they seem.

https://carbuzz.com/news/building-evs-worse-for-environment-than-gas-powered-cars
 

Lithium Batteries' Dirty Secret: Manufacturing Them Leaves Massive Carbon Footprint​


Once in operation, electric cars certainly reduce your carbon footprint, but making the lithium-ion batteries could emit 74% more CO2 than for conventional cars.

Beneath the hoods of millions of the clean electric cars rolling onto the world's roads in the next few years will be a dirty battery.

Every major carmaker has plans for electric vehicles to cut greenhouse gas emissions, yet their manufacturers are, by and large, making lithium-ion batteries in places with some of the most polluting grids in the world.

By 2021, capacity will exist to build batteries for more than 10 million cars running on 60 kilowatt-hour packs, according to data of Bloomberg NEF. Most supply will come from places like China, Thailand, Germany and Poland that rely on non-renewable sources like coal for electricity.

We're facing a bow wave of additional CO2 emissions," said Andreas Radics, a managing partner at Munich-based automotive consultancy Berylls Strategy Advisors, which argues that for now, drivers in Germany or Poland may still be better off with an efficient diesel engine.
The findings, among the more bearish ones around, show that while electric cars are emission-free on the road, they still discharge a lot of the carbon-dioxide that conventional cars do.
Just to build each car battery—weighing upwards of 500 kilograms (1,100 pounds) in size for sport-utility vehicles—would emit up to 74% more C02 than producing an efficient conventional car if it's made in a factory powered by fossil fuels in a place like Germany, according to Berylls' findings.
See also: GM to Source Lithium for EV Batteries from US-Based Startup
Yet regulators haven't set out clear guidelines on acceptable carbon emissions over the life cycle of electric cars, even as the likes of China, France and the U.K. move toward outright bans of combustion engines.

"It will come down to where is the battery made, how is it made, and even where do we get our electric power from," said Henrik Fisker, chief executive officer and chairman of Fisker Inc., a California-based developer of electric vehicles.
See also: The Whys Behind the 'Astonishing Drop' in Lithium Ion Battery Costs
For perspective, the average German car owner could drive a gas-guzzling vehicle for three and a half years, or more than 50,000 kilometers, before a Nissan Leaf with a 30 kWh battery would beat it on carbon-dioxide emissions in a coal-heavy country, Berylls estimates show.
And that's one of the smallest batteries on the market: BMW's i3 has a 42 kWh battery, Mercedes's upcoming EQC crossover will have a 80 kWh battery, and Audi's e-tron will come in at 95 kWh.
With such heavy batteries, an electric car's carbon footprint can grow quite large even beyond the showroom, depending on how it's charged. Driving in France, which relies heavily on nuclear power, will spit out a lot less CO2 than Germany, where 40% of the grid burns on coal.

"It's not a great change to move from diesel to German coal power," said NorthVolt AB CEO Peter Carlsson, a former Tesla manager who is trying to build a 4-billion-euro ($4.6 billion) battery plant in Sweden that would run on hydropower. "Electric cars will be better in every way, but of course, when batteries are made in a coal-based electricity system it will take longer" to surpass diesel engines, he said.
To be sure, other studies show that even in coal-dominant Poland, using an electric car would emit 25% less carbon dioxide than a diesel car, according to Transport & Environment Brussels, a body that lobbies the European Union for sustainable environmental policy.
The benefit of driving battery cars in cities will be immediate: their quiet motors will reduce noise pollution and curb toxins like nitrogen oxide, NOX, a chemical compound spewed from diesel engines that's hazardous to air quality and human health.
"In downtown Oslo, Stockholm, Beijing or Paris, the most immediate consideration is to improve air quality and the quality of life for the people who live there," said Christoph Stuermer, the global lead analyst for PricewaterhouseCoopers Autofacts.

But electric cars aren't as clean as they could be. Just switching to renewable energy for manufacturing would slash emissions by 65%, according to Transport & Environment. In Norway, where hydro-electric energy powers practically the entire grid, the Berylls study showed electric cars generate nearly 60% less CO2 over their lifetime, compared with even the most efficient fuel-powered vehicles.
As it is now, manufacturing an electric car pumps out "significantly" more climate-warming gases than a conventional car, which releases only 20% of its lifetime C02 at this stage, according to estimates of Mercedes-Benz's electric-drive system integration department.
"Life-cycle emissions in electric vehicles depend on how much the car is driven in order to get to a point of crossover on diesels," Ola Kallenius, the Daimler AG board member who will take over as CEO next year, said at the Paris Motor Show this month. "By 2030, the life cycle issue will improve."
Some manufacturers have heeded calls to produce batteries in a more sustainable way. Tesla uses solar power at its Gigafactory for batteries in Nevada, and has plans for similar plants in Europe and Shanghai. Chinese firm Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. is also looking to power its future German plant with renewables.

"The topic of CO2 lifetime evaluations is starting to get more traction," said Radics at Berylls. "Carmakers need to be transparent in this discussion to avoid unsettling buyers."



https://www.industryweek.com/techno...acturing-them-leaves-massive-carbon-footprint
 

Building EVs Worse For Environment Than Gas-Powered Cars​


If we told you a decade ago that Ford would release two electric vehicles - one badged as a Mustang and one being an F-150 truck - you wouldn't have believed us. But here we are in 2021 and both the Mustang Mach-E and the F-150 Lightning exist. Each is proof that electric powertrains are no longer just lauded for zero tailpipe emissions but they are good enough to be used in almost any vehicle type.
However, the specific construction requirements of EVs have a downside in terms of carbon emissions that Simon Powell from global thematic research firm Jefferies has termed "embedded carbon". This puts them at a disadvantage relative to an equivalent gas vehicle.

Due to the extra weight of EVs, they are at a disadvantage when they leave the factory. Their bodies contain more steel, the battery packs weigh a lot, and systems like the brakes have to be reinforced to cope. All of this increases the rate at which carbon is released when EVs are manufactured relative to gas-powered vehicles.
"To gain the environmental dividend that governments are looking for, users are going to have to keep them longer [and] drive them further than they may have done with a conventional internal combustion energy vehicle," said Powell when speaking to CNBC's Street Signs Asia. No specific indication was given on how much further an EV would need to be driven to offset the carbon emissions during production.

Considering that EVs are expected to get even more affordable thanks to more appealing incentives, many consumers buying these vehicles are also enjoying the peace of mind that theoretically comes with driving a less polluting car that doesn't use gas. However, Powell's claims indicate that we aren't quite there yet and we may not be for some time to come.
"The way this whole thing gets solved is greener steel," said Powell. "The use of hydrogen in the manufacturing process for steel, as well, is something to look at."
Powell also suggested that improving battery technology with more energy-dense cells will help to decrease the weight of EVs, thereby decarbonizing the sector. Right now, though, that Tesla Model 3 or Ford Mustang Mach-E may not be as green as they seem.

https://carbuzz.com/news/building-evs-worse-for-environment-than-gas-powered-cars
You've only been an "environmentalist" since Trump's nonsensical rant over the weekend. Posting news stories from unaccredited sources doesn't seem to be furthering your cause. Since you like reading, try Tesla's 2021 Impact Report. Specifically pages 55-75, and 95-115. We'd love to hear your thoughts professor.

https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2021-tesla-impact-report.pdf
 
I think the advantage of EVs is that in theory once you have mined the Rare Earth Metals, you could establish a semi closed loop recycling process to recreate new batteries. You would have to mine less and less on a go forward basis.

We know that for as long as the sun exists, we can harness solar. You cannot say the same about oil. And the particulate pollution associated with
 
New Chevy Equinox EV only has 250 miles of supposed range. Is there any hope of getting the range up? As someone who takes frequent roadtrips this wouldn’t come close to meeting my personal needs.
 
New Chevy Equinox EV only has 250 miles of supposed range. Is there any hope of getting the range up? As someone who takes frequent roadtrips this wouldn’t come close to meeting my personal needs.

The base Equinox will have a 250 mile range, the upgraded trim level will come with a larger battery and a 300+ mile range.

Unfortunately mainstream product offerings are topping out at about 300-320 miles. It will only be improved, appreciably, via next-gen motor and/or battery tech or the onboarding of range extenders.

Ariel, of all companies, is planning production of a product that I've been advocating for more than a decade. Their next lightweight supercar will be a PHEV with a *turbine* range extender. Promises to be very cool.
 
You've only been an "environmentalist" since Trump's nonsensical rant over the weekend. Posting news stories from unaccredited sources doesn't seem to be furthering your cause. Since you like reading, try Tesla's 2021 Impact Report. Specifically pages 55-75, and 95-115. We'd love to hear your thoughts professor.

https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2021-tesla-impact-report.pdf
What are you rambling on about moron? Don't have time to read your homework assignment summarize it for me.
 
You've only been an "environmentalist" since Trump's nonsensical rant over the weekend. Posting news stories from unaccredited sources doesn't seem to be furthering your cause. Since you like reading, try Tesla's 2021 Impact Report. Specifically pages 55-75, and 95-115. We'd love to hear your thoughts professor.

https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2021-tesla-impact-report.pdf
Oh c'mon, now. I'm not on BS's side in this environmental impact nonsense. But getting information about Tesla's environmental impact from Tesla is the same thing as asking ExxonMobil about their environmental impact, or asking Big Tobacco about their health impacts, etc. Or asking me about the sexual wellness impacts of sheep love (it's super awesome, dude, trust me) .

I get that such reports are reviewed by "independent" accountants or other "independent" organizations. But there's independent and then there's actual independent.
 
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The base Equinox will have a 250 mile range, the upgraded trim level will come with a larger battery and a 300+ mile range.

Unfortunately mainstream product offerings are topping out at about 300-320 miles. It will only be improved, appreciably, via next-gen motor and/or battery tech or the onboarding of range extenders.

Ariel, of all companies, is planning production of a product that I've been advocating for more than a decade. Their next lightweight supercar will be a PHEV with a *turbine* range extender. Promises to be very cool.
Not positive, but pretty sure that I'll wind up with a PHEV before I wind up with a pure EV. Still seems like the best of both worlds when talking about an SUV for which road trips and possibly towing are a big part of the equation.

The Lucid Air seems to have close to the range I'd want. But I don't want to spend what it would take to get an SUV version of the Lucid Air given the SUV isn't going to get constant use. Not when there are more sports cars to buy. Or sailboats.
 
Not positive, but pretty sure that I'll wind up with a PHEV before I wind up with a pure EV. Still seems like the best of both worlds when talking about an SUV for which road trips and possibly towing are a big part of the equation.

The Lucid Air seems to have close to the range I'd want. But I don't want to spend what it would take to get an SUV version of the Lucid Air given the SUV isn't going to get constant use. Not when there are more sports cars to buy. Or sailboats.

Same page, for sure. If there was a PHEV Macan I'd be screaming for somebody in Eatontown to please take my money.

Speaking of - looking at booking another boat for first week in Feb. I'm assuming your availability hasn't changed, but if it has please let me know.

Hope to see ya Saturday.
 
The base Equinox will have a 250 mile range, the upgraded trim level will come with a larger battery and a 300+ mile range.

Unfortunately mainstream product offerings are topping out at about 300-320 miles. It will only be improved, appreciably, via next-gen motor and/or battery tech or the onboarding of range extenders.

Ariel, of all companies, is planning production of a product that I've been advocating for more than a decade. Their next lightweight supercar will be a PHEV with a *turbine* range extender. Promises to be very cool.

Lol, after all these years, I thought of you when I read that one.

Now if they could call it something other than Hipercar ...Jesus, that's awful.
 
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Jeep announced a Wagoneer EV with 400 miles of range today.

Also, a rather rugged new model called Recon. No range on that, but it looks like an electric Wrangler lite (or Bronco Sport, I guess).

Both to debut next year, production 2024.
 
Oh c'mon, now. I'm not on BS's side in this environmental impact nonsense. But getting information about Tesla's environment impact from Tesla is the same thing as asking ExxonMobil about their environmental impact, or asking Big Tobacco about their health impacts, etc. Or asking me about the sexual wellness impacts of sheep love (it's super awesome, dude, trust me) .

I get that such reports are reviewed by "independent" accountants or other "independent" organizations. But there's independent and then there's actual independent.

Look, we all know you get up every morning thinking about who you are going to argue with, but if you don't like Tesla's numbers, provide some information that refutes Tesla's charts and graphs. Bring something of substance to discuss.
 
Look, we all know you get up every morning thinking about who you are going to argue with, but if you don't like Tesla's numbers, provide some information that refutes Tesla's charts and graphs. Bring something of substance to discuss.
Why? I already said I’m not agreeing with BS’s ideologically-driven attack on the environmental impacts of EVs. Neither ICEVs nor EVs are environmentally perfect. But I think, when there is some historical perspective to draw upon, that EVs will turn out to be less bad for the environment than ICEVs.

I’m merely pointing out what I thought should be obvious; that corporate self-reporting often turns out to have been misleading or even outright false, particularly for large publicly traded corporations. And I alluded to some well-know examples, of which there are many.

And last time I looked, Tesla is a large publicly traded corporation.
 
I have the SEL. Also, at my income I will get much less of a tax break then $6.800. If you're going to sell you should go to CarMax in Edison next to Top Golf. I sold my 2017 Honda Civic there and the process took less than an hour and got 23K for a car I paid $24K.
Question- did you get other offers for your Civic, and was CarMax significantly better? We have to unload a 2013 Lincoln MKT.
 
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