OT: Electric vehicles

[RU-05]

Another look at future (possibly?) hydrogen fuel cell vehicles:

We Ride in Toyota’s Hydrogen-Powered Big Rig

Hydrogen fuel cell trucks could be the quiet revolution

www.autoweek.com

Also, talked on Sunday w/a friend who's a mechanical engineer that specializes in trains/railways/etc. Asked him why Germany would've built hydrogen fuel cell powered trains recently, instead of just using battery powered trains.

He said they probably avoided the electrical powered trains using wire because of the expense, something like $4M per mile (in the US, at least, IIRC the number he gave). And he said that electric battery trains are mostly useless at the moment given the speed at which the batteries run out of juice. They have some, but they are only special-use, as short-run shuttles, in the case of NJ Transit, I think it's actually out in Long Island, but not sure - kind of a proof of concept. Says it'll be a while before battery tech gets good enough to power locomotives via battery due to the energy drain. At least for normal length runs.

I think he said NJ transit is required to produce plans for a battery powered train that can be implemented on a wider scale than what's in use now. So they're working on it. But it won't work, except perhaps as hybrid solutions, anytime soon.

OTOH, overhead electric trains are still being built, using catenary, despite the extreme cost and ugliness of it.

A scan of current articles shows a lot of interest in battery-powered trains, and some efforts to try to get stuff up and running using that tech. But nothing concrete other than concepts/proofs-of-concept/early stage tests/etc.

I believe the reason is weight. For a train, or even a semi pulling a trailer, there would need to be a huge battery, which weighs a lot. Where as hydrogen is obviously very light.

Supposedly for that reason, fuel cells have more potential in larger applications like trains and semi's.

 

[mildone]

I believe the reason is weight. For a train, or even a semi pulling a trailer, there would need to be a huge battery, which weighs a lot. Where as hydrogen is obviously very light.

Supposedly for that reason, fuel cells have more potential in larger applications like trains and semi's.

Yep, weight of the batteries and weight of the trains, which burns through the charge in the batteries too fast to be useful. At least that’s what my mechanical engineer buddy who specializes in trains tells me.

 

[Caliknight]

Ca begging EV owners to not charge their cars because there isn’t enough power lol

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Ca begging EV owners to not charge their cars because there isn’t enough power lol

Mayor Pete being asked about power needs of electric cars

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Mayor Pete being asked about power needs of electric cars

View embedded media

Congressman Massie showing that can't do American spirit! It's too hard! Waa waa.

Instead of forming endless committees, subcommittees, and holding pointless hearings, how about our representatives get to work and clear the path for this technology to flourish. I'd love to see America as the global beacon for a sustainable energy future.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Congressman Massie showing that can't do American spirit! It's too hard! Waa waa.

Instead of forming endless committees, subcommittees, and holding pointless hearings, how about our representatives get to work and clear the path for this technology to flourish. I'd love to see America as the global beacon for a sustainable energy future.

um.. that is what he was doing there. Getting to work on bringing some sense of reality to your fantasy dream world.

 

[mildone]

um.. that is what he was doing there. Getting to work on bringing some sense of reality to your fantasy dream world.

Two things:

1. Congress is not the place to find any objective reality.

2. Belly is extremely biased towards anything that benefits Tesla so you’re wasting your breath trying to get him to objectively consider any suggestion that is in any way not 110% supportive of instant EV adoption.

My guess is that “reality“ lies somewhere between what EV idealism-extremists like Belly want it to be and what the Congressman, who is surely being funded to argue what he’s arguing, is saying.

 

[Joey Bags]

Who else is ready for Peak Lithium?

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Who else is ready for Peak Lithium?

FUD

https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime...nd-lithium-siren-song-peak-resource-arguments

 

[RUevolution36]

Two things:

1. Congress is not the place to find any objective reality.

2. Belly is extremely biased towards anything that benefits Tesla so you’re wasting your breath trying to get him to objectively consider any suggestion that is in any way not 110% supportive of instant EV adoption.

My guess is that “reality“ lies somewhere between what EV idealism-extremists like Belly want it to be and what the Congressman, who is surely being funded to argue what he’s arguing, is saying.

Your last point is very important when talking about what politicians say. First thought and last thought should always be "who's paying this person to say this?". These politicians don't have original ideas. They have ideas planted by special interests and are just taking $$$ to parrot these ideas.

When it comes to EV's...we have to come to a point where a decision is made by the country as a collective that this is the way we want to go for sustainability...and a concerted, joint effort by all parties, public authorities, private industry, and consumers to make things happen. Standing around and pointing at each other isn't going to make any progress. Saying the money isn't there is not the answer. There is money to be spent, but it means reprioritizing where current money is being spent in order to reach the agreed to goal.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Who else is ready for Peak Lithium?

The materials in batteries are 97% recyclable, until gas and oil which is converted to heat and then lost forever.

 

[mildone]

Your last point is very important when talking about what politicians say. First thought and last thought should always be "who's paying this person to say this?". These politicians don't have original ideas. They have ideas planted by special interests and are just taking $$$ to parrot these ideas.

When it comes to EV's...we have to come to a point where a decision is made by the country as a collective that this is the way we want to go for sustainability...and a concerted, joint effort by all parties, public authorities, private industry, and consumers to make things happen. Standing around and pointing at each other isn't going to make any progress. Saying the money isn't there is not the answer. There is money to be spent, but it means reprioritizing where current money is being spent in order to reach the agreed to goal.

100% agree.

IMO, the prioritization ought to be funding infrastructure, namely the development of more clean electricity production, improvements in transmission efficiency, and implementation of lots more public charging facilities, more public charging.

Instead of giving financial incentives to buy an EV (which just drives up the cost of EVs as manufacturers grab that money), use that money to create incentives for residential building owners to install charging stations.

That is putting the horse before the cart. EV adoption will increase organically if public charging infrastructure becomes far more widespread and, in the case of non-Tesla chargers, more reliable.

I am not a fan of creating targeted bans of ICEV sales until we make more progress with infrastructure. Encourage it, sure. But it‘s too soon to be forcing people in apartments and high-rise condos to be buying an EV.

 

[Joey Bags]

The materials in batteries are 97% recyclable, until gas and oil which is converted to heat and then lost forever.

While lithium is recyclable, its a complex process and we really aren’t recycling them for now at least.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

While lithium is recyclable, its a complex process and we really aren’t recycling them for now at least.

Fair point, but there is a huge opportunity. The markets for recycled batteries are ramping up.

Redwood Materials | Circular Supply Chain for Lithium-ion Batteries

Redwood creates a closed-loop, domestic supply chain by recycling and refining lithium-ion batteries and remanufacturing anode and cathode components.

www.redwoodmaterials.com

Redwood Materials: Use stored energy to power the recycling​

Old batteries typically arrive at recycling facilities with some residual energy stored in them. Many recyclers then spend time and money emptying them of charge so their materials can be extracted safely.

Redwood Materials, the extremely well-funded startup led by Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel, thinks that’s a waste. The Reno, Nevada company figured out a way to convert the stored electricity into heat for a low-temperature calcination process that extracts electrolyte from old battery cells.

This and a slew of other proprietary hydrometallurgy techniques pull out upward of 95 percent of the battery materials, said spokesperson Alexis Georgeson. Today, the company turns those materials into “battery intermediates,” the metals that go into new battery production. But the plan is to manufacture new copper foil, and eventually anode and cathode materials, in-house.

“We’re a battery materials company that’s using recycled content to help make battery materials as sustainable as possible,” Georgeson said.

Energy is one of the major inputs for a recycling operation. Harnessing the energy in the batteries themselves reduces the energy bill. Redwood powers the rest of its operation with renewable electricity, spokesperson Georgeson noted.

EV battery recycling is costly. These 5 startups could change that

Meet the American companies making lithium-ion battery recycling more profitable and sustainable than it’s ever been.

www.canarymedia.com

 

[RUevolution36]

100% agree.

IMO, the prioritization ought to be funding infrastructure, namely the development of more clean electricity production, improvements in transmission efficiency, and implementation of lots more public charging facilities, more public charging.

Instead of giving financial incentives to buy an EV (which just drives up the cost of EVs as manufacturers grab that money), use that money to create incentives for residential building owners to install charging stations.

That is putting the horse before the cart. EV adoption will increase organically if public charging infrastructure becomes far more widespread and, in the case of non-Tesla chargers, more reliable.

I am not a fan of creating targeted bans of ICEV sales until we make more progress with infrastructure. Encourage it, sure. But it‘s too soon to be forcing people in apartments and high-rise condos to be buying an EV.

Public utilities, government, and car companies are trying to sell the story that, if ppl buy more EVs, then it will show that the demand is there to expand infrastructure. So they subsidize the end sale. It's simply backwards. Utilities are putting off the huge capital programs because they don't want to risk their financials looking worse because they have to take out huge amounts of debt... government doesn't want to risk angering voters for putting money towards something that voters can't feel or touch and, most importantly, benefit from directly ($$$). Car companies want to just sell as many cars as possible to pay off their investment in new factories and retooling of old ones. No one is looking at the end to end solution. Everyone wants to take their piece and maximize their benefit, to the detriment of the overall goal.

 

[mildone]

Public utilities, government, and car companies are trying to sell the story that, if ppl buy more EVs, then it will show that the demand is there to expand infrastructure. So they subsidize the end sale. It's simply backwards. Utilities are putting off the huge capital programs because they don't want to risk their financials looking worse because they have to take out huge amounts of debt... government doesn't want to risk angering voters for putting money towards something that voters can't feel or touch and, most importantly, benefit from directly ($$$). Car companies want to just sell as many cars as possible to pay off their investment in new factories and retooling of old ones. No one is looking at the end to end solution. Everyone wants to take their piece and maximize their benefit, to the detriment of the overall goal.

That sounds about right.

Seems to me that infrastructure is one of the "good" reasons for government's existence. They need to do the stuff that nobody else wants to do, but must be done. But in this case, it's not happening, at least not happening correctly.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

While lithium is recyclable, its a complex process and we really aren’t recycling them for now at least.

Lithium is one of the most common metals in earth's crust. There's no shortage of lithium on this planet. Lithium refining is the current bottleneck.

Very little lithium goes into a battery cell despite the name lithium-ion battery. The other cathode metals make up the majority of the cell. Typical cathodes are nickel, manganese, cobalt, aluminum, or iron.

Battery recycling is happening right now, and scaling up fast.

 

[jtung230]

Took the VW ID4 up to Boston again. One thing that really bothers me is the range differential between going 65ish to cruising speed at 75 or 80 mph. Can’t take it for any trips over 250 miles.

 

[mildone]

The world needs 2 billion electric vehicles to get to net zero. But is there enough lithium to make all the batteries?

Surging demand for electric vehicles means surging demand for lithium, a key metal for EV batteries. But global supplies are tight – and getting tighter.

www.weforum.org

 

[LBusDoor90]

Took the VW ID4 up to Boston again. One thing that really bothers me is the range differential between going 65ish to cruising speed at 75 or 80 mph. Can’t take it for any trips over 250 miles.

That increased energy consumption is an issue for all EVs. This summer on a drive down to Cape Charles VA and back, I carefully tracked my number of miles actually travelled during each segment of the trip and compared it to what the number of miles lost from my battery was for my Model 3, according to the formula the EPA has Tesla use for that remaining range that appears next to my battery icon.
While cruising mostly at 75-76 mph with the AC set for 76 deg that my gf and I find comfortable, I very consistently consumed 1.23 to 1.25 times more miles from my battery range than the actual distance travelled. This is useful now for knowing I only need to supercharge up to 1.3 times more miles than the distance I have left to travel to either get to our destination campground or back home (since I can charge at both).

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Knight Shift]

Interesting thread on F150 Lightning forum on how Lightning owners who also owned a Tesla feel about both. It's an apples and grapes comparison, IMO, but a fair number of complaints about Tesla's service.

Anyone switch from a Tesla and regret it?

I currently have a model Y, came from a tundra, love it but miss the functionality of truck. I just ordered my lightning and plan to sell the Y but I’m hoping I don’t regret it. Biggest concern is the charging network, it’s nonexistent for any other EV, the tech concerns me as well but that can...

www.f150lightningforum.com

 

[RUevolution36]

Inside Tesla's drive to keep Musk's battery promise

The secret behind Elon Musk's goal of selling 20 million Tesla's a year by 2030 lies in its pioneering battery technology.

www.reuters.com

 

[mildone]

Inside Tesla's drive to keep Musk's battery promise

The secret behind Elon Musk's goal of selling 20 million Tesla's a year by 2030 lies in its pioneering battery technology.

www.reuters.com

Interesting article. I'm just wondering when the cost savings from the current larger-cell/lower-component battery production, or the future dry coating production, will reverse all of Tesla's price hikes and benefit their customers.

 

[RUevolution36]

Interesting article. I'm just wondering when the cost savings from the current larger-cell/lower-component battery production, or the future dry coating production, will reverse all of Tesla's price hikes and benefit their customers.

when has cost cutting ever resulted in price cuts?

 

[mildone]

when has cost cutting ever resulted in price cuts?

It’s pretty rare in the automotive industry.

 

[RUevolution36]

The next big battery material squeeze is old batteries - Autoblog

A global rush into battery recycling is good news for automakers worried about future raw material supplies. But the wave of new factories poses a big risk

www.autoblog.com

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Inside Tesla's drive to keep Musk's battery promise

The secret behind Elon Musk's goal of selling 20 million Tesla's a year by 2030 lies in its pioneering battery technology.

www.reuters.com

The dry battery electrode coating process was explained on Tesla's Battery Day in 2020. It's also been discussed at every earnings call since. Not sure about the reliability of the Reuters "sources", but the message from Tesla has been basically, "making progress, yield is improving, and it's a solvable problem." Also stressed on Battery Day was that it was going to take at least 3 years from the start of scale production for the advantages of the 4680 to be fully realized.

Tesla is currently making 4680 Model Ys out of Austin. There is also a pilot plant in California currently producing, and the Berlin factory will be producing 4680s by the end of the year. Semi truck and Cybertruck will use 4680s also.

There are other iterations coming for the 4680s in order for Tesla to reach their $50-60/kWh goal. The dry electrode is only a part of that process.

It's a great example of technology that works on the lab bench, but when it comes to volume production, it's a completely different story. Same goes for solid state batteries. They've been around for decades, but no one has figured out how to scale production. Breakthroughs in battery tech seem to progress very slowly because it's all about scale. Scale is hard.

 

[RUevolution36]

GM to offer U.S. Buick dealers buyouts - Autoblog

General Motors said it will offer all of its estimated 2,000 U.S. Buick franchise dealers buyouts as it moves to make the brand all-electric by 2030 in the United States.

www.autoblog.com

 

[mildone]

This is actually pretty hilarious. Especially some of the comments. I suspect it won’t appeal much to Trump worshipers, but if you can get over that for a few minutes, it’s a pretty entertaining article.

Let's Debunk all the Ridiculous EV Claims Donald Trump Made Over the Weekend

The former President made some outlandish electric vehicle claims (and math problems) at a campaign stop ahead of the midterm elections.

jalopnik.com

 

[Knight Shift]

This is actually pretty hilarious. Especially some of the comments. I suspect it won’t appeal much to Trump worshipers, but if you can get over that for a few minutes, it’s a pretty entertaining article.

Let's Debunk all the Ridiculous EV Claims Donald Trump Made Over the Weekend

The former President made some outlandish electric vehicle claims (and math problems) at a campaign stop ahead of the midterm elections.

jalopnik.com

I like facts more than politicians and not afraid to take the side of facts with politicians I don't like or agree with.

“When I was in office, gas was $1.87 a gallon.”
Jalopnik is actually wrong: April 2020 it was $1.84/gallon

U.S. Regular All Formulations Retail Gasoline Prices (Dollars per Gallon)

www.eia.gov

“We weren’t talking about going to all-electric cars, which are twice as expensive."
-In the present tense, this is not a correct statement. However, Jalopnik goes out of its way to include tax incentives. I'm on the fence about incentives to purchase vehicles. These incentives are great for auto makers, who recently jacked up their prices in response to the recently signed federal legislation.

“A friend of mine wanted to do something for the environment. He went out and bought a[n] electric car”
-Jalopnik come across as partisan hacks here. Almost everybody knows somebody who has an electric car.

“He made a certain trip. I won’t say from where… Kentucky.”
“He called me and said ‘I’m exhausted. This damn trip… it took me forever. I’d drive for two hours and then I’d have to have my car charged.
“In two cases I couldn’t find a place to charge it.”
Again, more partisan hackery by Jalopnik. A person we know (an actual real person, really, truly!) took a drive from NJ to the Outer Banks in his new F150 Lightning, and the charging network experience was a huge disaster. Had to stay in a campground while the vehicle recharged. Stuff it Tesla fanboys-we don't want to hear it. On the way back, the Ford dealer they stopped at could not charge the vehicle, and they had to go to a VW dealer.

"This speech, while incredibly misleading, will likely not really sway the hearts and minds of Americans. All it will do is reaffirm two camps: either Trump is a dummy or EVs are the devil."

Looking at the above, it was not "incredibly misleading." His account of his so-called "friend" (does he have any real friends?) is in line with other stories of real people. The charging infrastructure for non-Tesla drivers sucks right now in most of the country. Less money should go to incentives and more to the charging network. Trump is not necessarily a "dummy." He is a dangerous, narcissist and egomaniac who will say anything and stretch to truth to build support for himself. That is more like an evil genius than a dummy.

 

[Knight Shift]

I like facts more than politicians and not afraid to take the side of facts with politicians I don't like or agree with.

“When I was in office, gas was $1.87 a gallon.”
Jalopnik is actually wrong: April 2020 it was $1.84/gallon

U.S. Regular All Formulations Retail Gasoline Prices (Dollars per Gallon)

www.eia.gov

“We weren’t talking about going to all-electric cars, which are twice as expensive."
-In the present tense, this is not a correct statement. However, Jalopnik goes out of its way to include tax incentives. I'm on the fence about incentives to purchase vehicles. These incentives are great for auto makers, who recently jacked up their prices in response to the recently signed federal legislation.

“A friend of mine wanted to do something for the environment. He went out and bought a[n] electric car”
-Jalopnik come across as partisan hacks here. Almost everybody knows somebody who has an electric car.

“He made a certain trip. I won’t say from where… Kentucky.”
“He called me and said ‘I’m exhausted. This damn trip… it took me forever. I’d drive for two hours and then I’d have to have my car charged.
“In two cases I couldn’t find a place to charge it.”
Again, more partisan hackery by Jalopnik. A person we know (an actual real person, really, truly!) took a drive from NJ to the Outer Banks in his new F150 Lightning, and the charging network experience was a huge disaster. Had to stay in a campground while the vehicle recharged. Stuff it Tesla fanboys-we don't want to hear it. On the way back, the Ford dealer they stopped at could not charge the vehicle, and they had to go to a VW dealer.

"This speech, while incredibly misleading, will likely not really sway the hearts and minds of Americans. All it will do is reaffirm two camps: either Trump is a dummy or EVs are the devil."

Looking at the above, it was not "incredibly misleading." His account of his so-called "friend" (does he have any real friends?) is in line with other stories of real people. The charging infrastructure for non-Tesla drivers sucks right now in most of the country. Less money should go to incentives and more to the charging network. Trump is not necessarily a "dummy." He is a dangerous, narcissist and egomaniac who will say anything and stretch to truth to build support for himself. That is more like an evil genius than a dummy.

And the first comment under the story aligns with my comment above.

What I find really amusing is people who react to something said by someone they hate so much, they are so triggered that they cannot separate truth from fiction and automatically conclude that the statements are false or stupid because media has conditioned them to think that way. It's a sad type of brainwashing by the media.

Here's the comment:
killerhurtalot4Andy Kalmowitz
9/06/22 1:13pm
"Ok, I hate Donald trump as much as the next guy, but some the gripes are legitimate...

If you’re going to make the average consumer accept a electric vehicle, f#ck planning a long trip. Charging needs to be damn ubiquitous and needs to be available everywhere like gas stations are. Not only that, ALL of them needs to be ****ing 150-350 kW fast chargers.

MOST of the chargers around are NOT fast 150-350 kW fast chargers. (hell, in the entire state of Washington, there’s less than 75 places with 150/350 kW chargers even if you include Tesla’s supercharging network) Just look at this map, most of it is Level 2 charging. It’s not even Level 2 DC charging either.
F$ck man, most of them aren’t even 100 kW chargers if you’re just looking at the more available ones in parking lots of various grocery stores or shopping centers. They’re literally like 16-30 kW most of the time since the stores are just cheaping out and just paying for an additional 240V/40A breaker...

A lot of times, people just drive until the low fuel thing pops up, pull off at the next gas station. Good luck with doing that in a EV when gas stations aren’t everywhere...

On average in eastern WA, it’s literally 30+ minutes between charging stations even on the damn interstate.

Edit: I get planning out routes since I like driving and go out for long drives, but my mom would never plan for this shit. My dad (who owns a Etron GT) doesn’t plan for this shit and still haven’t figured out that he needs to look for 150-350 kW chargers to actually charge up in 20 minutes."

And another:
duckyboy123Andy Kalmowitz
9/06/22 1:27pm
"Love my electric car, but for road trips it does kinda suck. Around town, it’s FAR better than any gas powered anything. For long road trips, I want a gas powered anything."

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

This is actually pretty hilarious. Especially some of the comments. I suspect it won’t appeal much to Trump worshipers, but if you can get over that for a few minutes, it’s a pretty entertaining article.

Let's Debunk all the Ridiculous EV Claims Donald Trump Made Over the Weekend

The former President made some outlandish electric vehicle claims (and math problems) at a campaign stop ahead of the midterm elections.

jalopnik.com

Trump's claims about EVs are as ridiculous as his rants about windmills and low-flow toilets.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

In case anyone is interested, here's the Tuesday map of California locations > 100 degrees. 114 degrees in my town today. Just brutally hot.

The grid held up well, though I did lose power at home for a few hours (not a biggie). Not out of the woods, but the sky did not fall. Three more days before the weather is expected to back to normal for this time of year.

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

“Troll”?

I don’t follow you.

A. I didn’t write that headline

B. I posted an article about an electric vehicle in the board’s electric vehicle thread.

C. Why so defensive and aggressive? Don’t fear information.

That’s what the electric car crowd fears most. EV’s are not more efficient and if you saw how the environment is being raped by the governments pushing this shit, you and every “environmentalist” would be outraged. But since it’s the lefts pet project to force everyone to drive an EV you will only hear positive platitudes about how efficient and environmentally friendly EV’s are.

 

[mildone]

I like facts more than politicians and not afraid to take the side of facts with politicians I don't like or agree with.

“When I was in office, gas was $1.87 a gallon.”
Jalopnik is actually wrong: April 2020 it was $1.84/gallon

U.S. Regular All Formulations Retail Gasoline Prices (Dollars per Gallon)

www.eia.gov

“We weren’t talking about going to all-electric cars, which are twice as expensive."
-In the present tense, this is not a correct statement. However, Jalopnik goes out of its way to include tax incentives. I'm on the fence about incentives to purchase vehicles. These incentives are great for auto makers, who recently jacked up their prices in response to the recently signed federal legislation.

“A friend of mine wanted to do something for the environment. He went out and bought a[n] electric car”
-Jalopnik come across as partisan hacks here. Almost everybody knows somebody who has an electric car.

“He made a certain trip. I won’t say from where… Kentucky.”
“He called me and said ‘I’m exhausted. This damn trip… it took me forever. I’d drive for two hours and then I’d have to have my car charged.
“In two cases I couldn’t find a place to charge it.”
Again, more partisan hackery by Jalopnik. A person we know (an actual real person, really, truly!) took a drive from NJ to the Outer Banks in his new F150 Lightning, and the charging network experience was a huge disaster. Had to stay in a campground while the vehicle recharged. Stuff it Tesla fanboys-we don't want to hear it. On the way back, the Ford dealer they stopped at could not charge the vehicle, and they had to go to a VW dealer.

"This speech, while incredibly misleading, will likely not really sway the hearts and minds of Americans. All it will do is reaffirm two camps: either Trump is a dummy or EVs are the devil."

Looking at the above, it was not "incredibly misleading." His account of his so-called "friend" (does he have any real friends?) is in line with other stories of real people. The charging infrastructure for non-Tesla drivers sucks right now in most of the country. Less money should go to incentives and more to the charging network. Trump is not necessarily a "dummy." He is a dangerous, narcissist and egomaniac who will say anything and stretch to truth to build support for himself. That is more like an evil genius than a dummy.

Totally agree about focusing on public charging infrastructure. More quality chargers everywhere is what's needed - and what, I think, will drive EV adoption far more than rebates that get swallowed up by manufacturers increasing prices.

And yes, Trump is not stupid. He's the other stuff you mentioned. Biden's no prize either. Wish more people could admit that the leadership on both sides is pretty poor these days. First step in getting better is admitting we have a problem.

 

[mildone]

Trump's claims about EVs are as ridiculous as his rants about windmills and low-flow toilets.

He's just trying to repeat stuff he's heard that probably resonates with a large percentage of his base.

I just find the combination of the article's sarcastic tone with the ridiculously overstated claims from the speech to be hilarious. As if billionaires actually spend any time worrying over any of this stuff. 🤣

 

[Knight Shift]

Totally agree about focusing on public charging infrastructure. More quality chargers everywhere is what's needed - and what, I think, will drive EV adoption far more than rebates that get swallowed up by manufacturers increasing prices.

And yes, Trump is not stupid. He's the other stuff you mentioned. Biden's no prize either. Wish more people could admit that the leadership on both sides is pretty poor these days. First step in getting better is admitting we have a problem.

But to Biden's credit, he did get a lot of $$$ for charging infrastructure. In my humble opinion, less should have gone to rebates, and more towards infrastructure because putting more vehicles on the road without having the infrastructure is putting the proverbial cart before the horse and a recipe for disaster. It will also foment more deniers and stone-throwers who don't want to see EV adoption succeed. From a pure technology standpoint (leaving the environmental aspects out of it), I am absolutely thrilled to have a plug-in HYBRID {EDITED} in the garage and a pure EV on the way (October-November). The lack of maintenance, the power, the acceleration are all great reasons to go EV, plus the convenience of not having to go to the gas station when most of your driving is around town. Just plug your car in, and you are good to go. A lot to like and be excited about. Forget the politics. Everything is political.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

But to Biden's credit, he did get a lot of $$$ for charging infrastructure. In my humble opinion, less should have gone to rebates, and more towards infrastructure because putting more vehicles on the road without having the infrastructure is putting the proverbial cart before the horse and a recipe for disaster. It will also foment more deniers and stone-throwers who don't want to see EV adoption succeed. From a pure technology standpoint (leaving the environmental aspects out of it), I am absolutely thrilled to have a plug-in EV in the garage and a pure EV on the way (October-November). The lack of maintenance, the power, the acceleration are all great reasons to go EV, plus the convenience of not having to go to the gas station when most of your driving is around town. Just plug your car in, and you are good to go. A lot to like and be excited about. Forget the politics. Everything is political.

Agree. It's sickening (but not surprising) that EVs are being weaponized/politicized.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

That’s what the electric car crowd fears most. EV’s are not more efficient and if you saw how the environment is being raped by the governments pushing this shit, you and every “environmentalist” would be outraged. But since it’s the lefts pet project to force everyone to drive an EV you will only hear positive platitudes about how efficient and environmentally friendly EV’s are.

Most of the energy stored in a battery pack goes towards moving the vehicle. Most of the energy stored in a gas tank is wasted as heat. There's no debate regarding this fact. Your efficiency claim is completely false. Stop lying.