OT: Electric vehicles

[theRU]

Change is hard - change is scary to alot of folks. Don't fight it... Evs are a better tech now than ice for 70% of the use cases.


Now back to the evs themselves - I'm kinda pissed I might be getting a Y and I'm already looking into getting leather installed, and upgrade to the interior. Their powertrains are good but that interior is god awful

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

So a recent example of why some of us are skeptical about EV’s. A lady I work with bought a Tesla three years ago. Everything was fine with it until about six months ago when she started noticing her range on her car started getting less and less. She daily commutes from Bethlehem PA to red bank. Her requirement was for her car to get her from Bethlehem to red bank and back on a full charge. Anyhow, she started noticing that the range was dropping. So she takes it back to Tesla, Tesla tells her she needs a new battery array. Guess how much a new battery is? Almost as much as a new Tesla. So she ended up eating close to $10,000on the trade in and she has a brand new Tesla. This is a car that was almost three years old. Add in that there is zero carbon emission reduction when including the carbon used to manufacture the car, higher expense of the car to begin with and spotty reliabilty record and EV’s have a long way to go to rival ICE cars.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

So a recent example of why some of us are skeptical about EV’s. A lady I work with bought a Tesla three years ago. Everything was fine with it until about six months ago when she started noticing her range on her car started getting less and less. She daily commutes from Bethlehem PA to red bank. Her requirement was for her car to get her from Bethlehem to red bank and back on a full charge. Anyhow, she started noticing that the range was dropping. So she takes it back to Tesla, Tesla tells her she needs a new battery array. Guess how much a new battery is? Almost as much as a new Tesla. So she ended up eating close to $10,000on the trade in and she has a brand new Tesla. This is a car that was almost three years old. Add in that there is zero carbon emission reduction when including the carbon used to manufacture the car, higher expense of the car to begin with and spotty reliabilty record and EV’s have a long way to go to rival ICE cars.

I don't believe you. The battery would be under warranty.

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

I don't believe you. The battery would be under warranty.

I can only tell you as it was explained to me. I will ask her tomorrow for more specifics.

 

[RU4Real]

So a recent example of why some of us are skeptical about EV’s. A lady I work with bought a Tesla three years ago. Everything was fine with it until about six months ago when she started noticing her range on her car started getting less and less. She daily commutes from Bethlehem PA to red bank. Her requirement was for her car to get her from Bethlehem to red bank and back on a full charge. Anyhow, she started noticing that the range was dropping. So she takes it back to Tesla, Tesla tells her she needs a new battery array. Guess how much a new battery is? Almost as much as a new Tesla. So she ended up eating close to $10,000on the trade in and she has a brand new Tesla. This is a car that was almost three years old. Add in that there is zero carbon emission reduction when including the carbon used to manufacture the car, higher expense of the car to begin with and spotty reliabilty record and EV’s have a long way to go to rival ICE cars.

You neglect to mention how many miles she put on the car driving from Bethlehem to Red Bank.

I'll help you. It's 875 miles per week. Assuming a very conservative 40 weeks per year, after 3 years the car has 105,000 miles on it, exclusive of any other driving.

Now ponder what a "regular" car would run in maintenance and repairs given 100,000 miles in a 3 year period.

Your story begins to fade.

 

[theRU]

I can only tell you as it was explained to me. I will ask her tomorrow for more specifics.

I agree - bs.

Model 3 Long Range
Model 3 Performance
Model Y Long Range
Model Y Performance

8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period

 

[cockhornleghorn]

Change is hard - change is scary to alot of folks. Don't fight it... Evs are a better tech now than ice for 70% of the use cases.


Now back to the evs themselves - I'm kinda pissed I might be getting a Y and I'm already looking into getting leather installed, and upgrade to the interior. Their powertrains are good but that interior is god awful

I just got a used Model 3 because I couldn't find a new GV60. The interior does leave a lot to be desired, but superchargers are convenient on road trips.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

 

[sdwcpa]

I still think that the PHEV is the best solution for those who have home based charging access and do most of their driving locally like the majority of motorist.
I just made my first trip to the gas pump after nearly 1500 miles and it took exactly 4.5 gallons of gas. Totally carbon free? No but close enough and the battery for my PHEV took about 1/8 of the stripped mined minerals that a Tesla battery takes.

 

[mildone]

I still think that the PHEV is the best solution for those who have home based charging access and do most of their driving locally like the majority of motorist.
I just made my first trip to the gas pump after nearly 1500 miles and it took exactly 4.5 gallons of gas. Totally carbon free? No but close enough and the battery for my PHEV took about 1/8 of the stripped mined minerals that a Tesla battery takes.

I think, for a vehicle intended to do road trips longer than the vehicle range, a PHEV makes a lot of sense. Totally alleviates range as a concern, plus can be used locally without any gas. Also means one can drive at normal highway speeds without worrying about conserving the batteries.

 

[OntheBanks]

I think, for a vehicle intended to do road trips longer than the vehicle range, a PHEV makes a lot of sense. Totally alleviates range as a concern, plus can be used locally without any gas. Also means one can drive at normal highway speeds without worrying about conserving the batteries.

And in my Ford Escape PHEV I can set it to EV Charging mode and the battery can by charged while I'm running on Gas.

 

[mildone]

And in my Ford Escape PHEV I can set it to EV Charging mode and the battery can by charged while I'm running on Gas.

That's why I think it's the best of both worlds. An opinion that offends some EV purists.

But if everybody were driving PHEVs, that would still make an enormous difference compared to everybody driving ICEVs. Most of the time, people could be on pure EV power anyway.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

I still think that the PHEV is the best solution for those who have home based charging access and do most of their driving locally like the majority of motorist.
I just made my first trip to the gas pump after nearly 1500 miles and it took exactly 4.5 gallons of gas. Totally carbon free? No but close enough and the battery for my PHEV took about 1/8 of the stripped mined minerals that a Tesla battery takes.

Not following your logic. If the majority of driving is local and you have access to home charging, a pure EV seems to be the best solution. In your example, you're towing a useless power train 99% of the time + you have all of the service and maintenance costs for the ICE. A pure EV is much more efficient.

 

[fsg2]

Not following your logic. If the majority of driving is local and you have access to home charging, a pure EV seems to be the best solution. In your example, you're towing a useless power train 99% of the time + you have all of the service and maintenance costs for the ICE. A pure EV is much more efficient.

99 percent is made up.

There are still a lot of people who need or want their vehicle to go farther than an electric can, without having to stop for 30+ minutes.

 

[mildone]

99 percent is made up.

There are still a lot of people who need or want their vehicle to go farther than an electric can, without having to stop for 30+ minutes.

Agree that the 99 is an exaggeration. I suppose, though, that if most trip are local and one has a home where they can charge overnight, AND if one has some other vehicle to take on the road for longer road trips now and then, an EV would make sense.

But for me, a PHEV SUV might be the perfect thing. Use electric for around town fetching groceries or, you know, ferrying the hookers to their appointments. Then dip into the ICEV for longer road trips when necessary.

Like @RU4Real said earlier, if there was a Macan PHEV, I'd have a hard time not getting one (although I'd wait until pricing cooled off some - it's still totally crazy buying a car right now).

 

[sdwcpa]

Not following your logic. If the majority of driving is local and you have access to home charging, a pure EV seems to be the best solution. In your example, you're towing a useless power train 99% of the time + you have all of the service and maintenance costs for the ICE. A pure EV is much more efficient.

My bad
I meant to add “ with the ability to take a long trip without range anxiety “

 

[fsg2]

Agree that the 99 is an exaggeration. I suppose, though, that if most trip are local and one has a home where they can charge overnight, AND if one has some other vehicle to take on the road for longer road trips now and then, an EV would make sense.

But for me, a PHEV SUV might be the perfect thing. Use electric for around town fetching groceries or, you know, ferrying the hookers to their appointments. Then dip into the ICEV for longer road trips when necessary.

Like @RU4Real said earlier, if there was a Macan PHEV, I'd have a hard time not getting one (although I'd wait until pricing cooled off some - it's still totally crazy buying a car right now).

Exactly. I ultimately want an ICE or light hybrid as a dedicated road tripper/camper and an electric vehicle for everyday around town, a combo for the family. If I was the only one driving, that combo is a single PHEV.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Speaking as a Tesla owner with home charging and supercharger access... Range anxiety is a myth.
I don't cannonball and I do have a bladder, so a 20 minute stop after driving for 3-4 hours is welcome. Most road trips stops for gas end up being around 20 minutes anyway, especially if you're traveling with family.

 

[fsg2]

Speaking as a Tesla owner with home charging and supercharger access... Range anxiety is a myth.
I don't cannonball and I do have a bladder, so a 20 minute stop after driving for 3-4 hours is welcome. Most road trips stops for gas end up being around 20 minutes anyway, especially if you're traveling with family.

Yeah, no it isn't.

World isn't black and white either.

My road trips include some pretty desolate stretches of highway, switchbacking mountain road and, often, significant lengths of unpaved forest road. Many stretches without gas or other services, let alone charging, sometimes the type of drives on which you pack extra gas (or preferably diesel) because of ICE range anxiety and the possibility of getting stranded in the epicenter of nowhere.

Isn't that the point of a (recreational) road trip?

 

[mildone]

Speaking as a Tesla owner with home charging and supercharger access... Range anxiety is a myth.
I don't cannonball and I do have a bladder, so a 20 minute stop after driving for 3-4 hours is welcome. Most road trips stops for gas end up being around 20 minutes anyway, especially if you're traveling with family.

Nobody is telling you how to feel about EV range. Maybe you ought not insist everybody adopt your viewpoint?

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Yeah, no it isn't.

World isn't black and white either.

My road trips include some pretty desolate stretches of highway, switchbacking mountain road and, often, significant lengths of unpaved forest road. Many stretches without gas or other services, let alone charging, sometimes the type of drives on which you pack extra gas (or preferably diesel) because of ICE range anxiety and the possibility of getting stranded in the epicenter of nowhere.

Isn't that the point of a (recreational) road trip?

Might come in handy on your next excursion:

https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/25/...-t-mobile-satellite-internet-mobile-messaging

 

[cockhornleghorn]

Yeah, no it isn't.

World isn't black and white either.

My road trips include some pretty desolate stretches of highway, switchbacking mountain road and, often, significant lengths of unpaved forest road. Many stretches without gas or other services, let alone charging, sometimes the type of drives on which you pack extra gas (or preferably diesel) because of ICE range anxiety and the possibility of getting stranded in the epicenter of nowhere.

Isn't that the point of a (recreational) road trip?

If someone travels frequently to the hinterlands, I can see a PHEV instead of EV argument, but how many people drive that far into the backwoods?

 

[RU4Real]

If someone travels frequently to the hinterlands, I can see a PHEV instead of EV argument, but how many people drive that far into the backwoods?

I thought it was only lesbians in Subarus.

 

[fsg2]

If someone travels frequently to the hinterlands, I can see a PHEV instead of EV argument, but how many people drive that far into the backwoods?

Half the country is rural. It's not really rare to have to regularly drive long distances across sparsely serviced geography.

Also RVing and overlanding are at something of a historical popularity peak.

 

[cockhornleghorn]

I thought it was only lesbians in Subarus.

It's a common joke, but true in a lot of cases.

 

[fsg2]

Might come in handy on your next excursion:

https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/25/...-t-mobile-satellite-internet-mobile-messaging

Was thinking of trying to wrangle a tester from Musk and Co but don't really need internet. And Garmin inReach is ample for emergency comms.

 

[RUBlackout7]

I still think that the PHEV is the best solution for those who have home based charging access and do most of their driving locally like the majority of motorist.
I just made my first trip to the gas pump after nearly 1500 miles and it took exactly 4.5 gallons of gas. Totally carbon free? No but close enough and the battery for my PHEV took about 1/8 of the stripped mined minerals that a Tesla battery takes.

Wow that’s pretty incredible. I’m surprised there isn’t more noise around PHEVs.

Are there any nice luxury ones?

 

[sdwcpa]

Speaking as a Tesla owner with home charging and supercharger access... Range anxiety is a myth.
I don't cannonball and I do have a bladder, so a 20 minute stop after driving for 3-4 hours is welcome. Most road trips stops for gas end up being around 20 minutes anyway, especially if you're traveling with family.

The charging infrastructure for EVs is a tale of 2 situations. Tesla's system works if you are in the right part of the country but the non Tesla EV charging system is a dumpster fire with probably close to half the non Tesla chargers nonfunctional at any one given time

 

[cockhornleghorn]

Wow that’s pretty incredible. I’m surprised there isn’t more noise around PHEVs.

Are there any nice luxury ones?

I had an '18 BMW 530e for a few years, but I like full EV much, much better. Drove a Chevy Bolt and now a Tesla Model 3.

 

[mildone]

Half the country is rural. It's not really rare to have to regularly drive long distances across sparsely serviced geography.

Also RVing and overlanding are at something of a historical popularity peak.

And driving on electric at 80+ MPH trashes EPA range estimates.

 

[jtung230]

The charging infrastructure for EVs is a tale of 2 situations. Tesla's system works if you are in the right part of the country but the non Tesla EV charging system is a dumpster fire with probably close to half the non Tesla chargers nonfunctional at any one given time

I use Electrified America and no issues. Not sure where you are getting the “close to half” number.

 

[RU4Real]

Wow that’s pretty incredible. I’m surprised there isn’t more noise around PHEVs.

Are there any nice luxury ones?

There are many.

In the SUV market, there's the Porsche Cayenne Hybrid. Sweet, but definitely Porsche Pricey.

Volvo now has a mostly full product line-up of PHEVs, including the ultra sweet XC60 Polestar Recharge with 455 total hp and a 0-60 time of 4.7 seconds.

Audi has the A7 TSFIe and the Q5 TFSIe.

BMW has a 33e, 530e and 745e. In the SUV segment they also offer the X5 XDrive 45e.

Ford has an Escape PHEV.

Hyundai offers the Ioniq PHEV and the Santa Fe PHEV as well as a Tucson PHEV.

Jeep has the Wrangler 4xe and Grand Cherokee 4xe.

Kia sells Niro and Sorento PHEVs.

Lexus offers the NX459h.

Subaru has PHEVs for lesbians.

Lincoln has the Aviator Grand Touring and Corsair Grand Touring.

Mitsubishi makes one as well, but nobody cares.

 

[fsg2]

And driving on electric at 80+ MPH trashes EPA range estimates.

As does towing anything, carrying any payload, etc, etc.

 

[jtung230]

As does towing anything, carrying any payload, etc, etc.

And this is different than ICE?

 

[fsg2]

And this is different than ICE?

Yeah ...because gas stations and three-minute fill ups.

 

[mildone]

And this is different than ICE?

Yes, in terms of overall range.

 

[Knight Shift]

There are many.

In the SUV market, there's the Porsche Cayenne Hybrid. Sweet, but definitely Porsche Pricey.

Volvo now has a mostly full product line-up of PHEVs, including the ultra sweet XC60 Polestar Recharge with 455 total hp and a 0-60 time of 4.7 seconds.

Audi has the A7 TSFIe and the Q5 TFSIe.

BMW has a 33e, 530e and 745e. In the SUV segment they also offer the X5 XDrive 45e.

Ford has an Escape PHEV.

Hyundai offers the Ioniq PHEV and the Santa Fe PHEV as well as a Tucson PHEV.

Jeep has the Wrangler 4xe and Grand Cherokee 4xe.

Kia sells Niro and Sorento PHEVs.

Lexus offers the NX459h.

Subaru has PHEVs for lesbians.

Lincoln has the Aviator Grand Touring and Corsair Grand Touring.

Mitsubishi makes one as well, but nobody cares.

Mitsubishi is an under rated brand. Someone in our office has had numerous Mitsubishi vehicles, and they rave about them.

 

[RUBlackout7]

There are many.

In the SUV market, there's the Porsche Cayenne Hybrid. Sweet, but definitely Porsche Pricey.

Volvo now has a mostly full product line-up of PHEVs, including the ultra sweet XC60 Polestar Recharge with 455 total hp and a 0-60 time of 4.7 seconds.

Audi has the A7 TSFIe and the Q5 TFSIe.

BMW has a 33e, 530e and 745e. In the SUV segment they also offer the X5 XDrive 45e.

Ford has an Escape PHEV.

Hyundai offers the Ioniq PHEV and the Santa Fe PHEV as well as a Tucson PHEV.

Jeep has the Wrangler 4xe and Grand Cherokee 4xe.

Kia sells Niro and Sorento PHEVs.

Lexus offers the NX459h.

Subaru has PHEVs for lesbians.

Lincoln has the Aviator Grand Touring and Corsair Grand Touring.

Mitsubishi makes one as well, but nobody cares.

Super helpful. I’ll take a look at the Audi and Lexus. Still can’t get myself around on Volvo’s even though they are really nice.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

If someone travels frequently to the hinterlands, I can see a PHEV instead of EV argument, but how many people drive that far into the backwoods?

Not many. Most people - the vast majority live in cities and suburbs. About 14% of Americans live in rural areas. However, even in rural areas, folks can still charge at home or the shop overnight.

 

[fsg2]

Not many. Most people - the vast majority live in cities and suburbs. About 14% of Americans live in rural areas. However, even in rural areas, folks can still charge at home or the shop overnight.

And then not make it to their destination the next day!