would you rather people drive full ICE or PHEV? you and your compatriots crowing from the rooftops about how evil anyone who isn't ready to make the leap to BEV is ignoring the fact that progress, even incremental progress, is progress towards a cleaner future. your sanctimonious purity is the type of thing that destroys any credibility you think you might have.
OT: Electric vehicles
- Thread starter BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap
- Start date
Do take a look at the Volvos. We purchases an S60 Recharge Plug In Hybrid about 3-4 weeks ago. It is fabulous. Seems at the dealer in Manaquan, there was not much of a demand for the S60s. They are made in South Carolina. We did not think we would like a sedan after driving SUVs for many years, but we love the car. Sporty, acceleration and ride are fantastic, and 41-48 hybrid miles when fully charged. Cabin is quiet as a library, interior is very luxurious, seats are comfortable, and Google integration is fabulous.
Best part is 3 years of complimentary service. Audi really raped us on prepaid service. It's worth looking at and comparing the Volvo.
LOL. I don't recall ever calling anyone evil for driving an ICE vehicle. I'll be the first to recognize that there simply aren't a lot of good, affordable options for EVs. Yet. I think the company that makes a really good and cheap EV (under $25K) will sell a lot of vehicles.
But the transportation revolution is coming, whatever you think. I generally don't even comment about hybrids, but they are not zero-emission vehicles. I want to see the country and the world go to a 100% zero-emission transportation system.
Most EVs have a range of at least 250 miles. Unless you're in Alaska, I doubt anyone in the U.S. is that far from a DC Fast Charger.
250 miles in optimal conditions. People use daily drivers in all kinds of conditions for all kinds of things. Towing cuts range in half. Cold weather 10 to 40 percent.
Do only people in Alaska drive in cold weather or tow things? Or not want to stop to charge every day?
Why is it so hard for you guys to understand not every driver is you. EVs are still 1 percent of cars on the road; obviously the overwhelming majority isn't rushing out to go electric. Range isn't the only shortcoming but remains a big one.
Even in this EV dedicated thread dominated, I believe, by posters from densely populated cities and suburbs, maybe half the guys actually own an EV. Several suggested a PHEV is a better fit, some who own them - wtf is the argument?
Put me down as someone who has no interest in an EV. There are many reasons, but mostly because I don't want to put my transportation needs in the hands of the electrical grid. Too risky IMO.
I also don't think they are good for the environment as the electrical grid is mostly powered by fossil fuels so you are doubling down on environmental damage. Makes no sense.
Conditions do not need to be optimal to get the rated range. It depends on the drive and driver. Same as an ICE. Highway speeds in an EV, you'll get less. But, for town driving or county road type driving, you should have no problem getting at least the rated range or better assuming you maximize regen and don't drive like a maniac.
but most of my driving is highway. typically cruising 75-80mph. so trying to dismiss other ppl's needs like mine, dismissing someone who wants to travel to the hinterlands, someone who does a lot of long distance highway driving, someone who lives in an urban center without access to a home charger...you're starting to exclude quite a bit of the potential buyers of vehicles. and then saying that a future of ONLY BEV is the only way we can accomplish reducing carbon footprint is stupid. do PHEV have an ICE component? yes. but, if your assertion that 90% of ppl only drive around town every day, then the ICE engine should never actually come on and be used. so what's the issue?
Why are you anti-EV people bringing up specialized cases that represent a small % of trips? The propaganda from fossil fuel companies is extensive.
Good for the environment is walking, biking and using public transportation. EVs are better for the environment than ICEs.
My post was in response to the claim that rated range is only achieved under "optimal conditions". That is not true. Not sure what you're babbling about. Drinking already?
learn to read you simpleton. range under optimal conditions is a pile of crap. people don't drive in optimal conditions all the time. differences in need for range and charging solutions make PHEV a viable option for most and would help the environment better than doing nothing.
Yes, using a pickup truck to tow and driving in cold weather are very fringe 😂
I'm not anti-EV at all. This particular conversation literally started with me saying that I'm considering getting an EV.
Why are EV drivers not happy enough that EVs work well for them and have to project the fantasy that they're perfect for everyone? Especially since the young market is rapidly evolving to address the shortcomings that keep others from embracing them.
Weird insecurity.
I don't think anyone has said the current crop of EVs can meet everyone's needs.
I hope you know that if the electrical grid goes out, you won't be able to pump gas into your car or generator.
For anyone counting on delivery of their EV or other vehicle on time, that may not happen. Railroad strike will disrupt auto shipments.
"The railroad also said it would stop accepting autos for transit at its facilities starting Wednesday afternoon. Other railways are likely to follow suit, according to one agriculture group. "
www.bloomberg.com
"The railroad also said it would stop accepting autos for transit at its facilities starting Wednesday afternoon. Other railways are likely to follow suit, according to one agriculture group. "
Rail Strike Threat Is Set to Halt Shipments of US Crops, Autos
www.bloomberg.com
Sorry, but towing something is "fringe". How many people tow, and of those who do, what percent of their trips are towing something. Maybe 5% of people actually tow something and they tow maybe 1% of the time. So, we're talking about fringe travel behaviors. Once again, EVs are not for everyone. Yet.
For anyone counting on delivery of their EV or other vehicle on time, that may not happen. Railroad strike will disrupt auto shipments.
"The railroad also said it would stop accepting autos for transit at its facilities starting Wednesday afternoon. Other railways are likely to follow suit, according to one agriculture group. "
Rail Strike Threat Is Set to Halt Shipments of US Crops, Autos
This could be the biggest strike in the USA in ... decades.
This particular back-forth started because someone said, point blank, the range problem is a myth, in response to several of us suggesting that a PHEV is an effective solution for a combo of ze local commuting with road trip capability (for us personally).
Yes, clearly a huge design failure. Same thing with modern hot water heaters, some gas fireplaces, etc.
There are ways to plan and deal with that issue.
Lmao. It's the reason many people own a full-size truck, the top three bestselling vehicles every year, along with loading up the pickup bed, which also sucks in an electric. People tow regularly for work and/or rec - step out of your bubble.
Untrue. All one needs to pump gas is a generator, and generators can be powered with propane and natural gas, as well as gasoline. In the event of a hurricane or winter storm that knocks out power, power gets restored in a somewhat reasonable time-frame. It's typically not worth switching over to an alternative power source for the pumps.
But if our nation was attacked, by terrorists for instance, one of the prime targets is our power grid. And in that case, a region of the country (lots of people) might be without power for quite a bit longer than is typical with storm-based outages.
In that event, gas stations would start using other sources to pump their gas.
I would think that, eventually, we'll see natural gas or propane backup generators at public charging facilities. At least I hope, for emergency management reasons, that, or something similar happens before too many of us are relying fully on electricity for transportation.
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Only a tiny percentage of people need to drive during an extended power outage 😂
Good point on backup power. Seems like it could be a good use for Hydrogen fuel cells, if trying to make it zero emissions. Hydrogen is currently better suited to larger capacity storage, anyway.
Well... I think that's a demographic thing. There are at least 4 people on my block who own high-end F-150s. Ain't a single one of 'em so much as seen a bag of fertilizer in the bed, much less towed anything. Around here, non-fleet sales of high-end pickups are largely Suburban Cowboy shit.
Agreed. But whose choice should it be to decide what people drive, the individual or the governments?
The market will determine what people drive, the same way it always has.
I know you're all a-twitter over the demise of internal combustion, but trust me - it's coming. That's not me being some kind of EV fanboy, like you ridiculously accused me of being the other day. It's just a fact. The market will dictate it.
If you don't believe me, then peruse the list of iconic ICE nameplates that are retiring for good, this year.
You may be right, but just remember this even though the horse and carriage went out of favor in the early 1900's there are still quite a few companies that make carriages, saddles, whips, horse riding clothing, and other accessories related to riding horses. The timeline the government put out is way out of whack with reality. 2035 or 2040 we will still be driving ICE vehicles en masse.
WSJ News Exclusive | Battery Recycling Race Heats Up After Inflation Reduction Act
The world’s biggest auto makers are betting that recycled material from old batteries will help supply the metal they need to build electric cars. The latest wager is on a startup that says it can take advantage of the Inflation Reduction Act.
www.wsj.com
Absolutely.
On the flip side, I can look out my front window and see one snowmobile trailer, one ATV trailer and one utility trailer. A walk around the block and you can add multiple large camping trailers, a catamaran, a powerboat and additional utility trailers. Probably half the homes in the greater neighborhood have dedicated RV parking - I still remember our RE agent asking us about it; I had no idea what she was talking about, but now I get it. I'd rather not count the # of pickup trucks.
Which is all to say, that towing is not a rare use at all. Even in fancy gated neighborhoods with chauffeured Bentleys, the lawn care guys have to get their equipment in somehow. And even if you only tow occasionally, you want a vehicle that can handle it at better than a 50/50 driving/charging ratio.
What is the source of data for that chart? Nowadays, unless it comes from some well-known information source, I'm highly skeptical of all the charts or stats I see tossed around on social media.
I don't doubt that some nations are adopting EVs more quickly than others. I just wonder where the numbers are coming from.
Hope your gas stations have solar panels. You know. Just in case.
A problem many people have it being able to look outside their own personal experiences to see the larger world. OK, you live out in the country with RVs and lots of pickups used for everyday life. I'm here to tell you that is a comparatively rare experience. EVs may not become popular in rural areas for a while (or maybe not - the F150 Lightning and Rivian models seem to me to be well-suited to rural lifestyles). That's OK. There are plenty of folks can use and are willing to buy EVs now and in the future. Check back in two years when EVs account for >10% of new car sales. Many of your neighbors will be wanting EVs for themselves and their families.
Don't feed the troll. He only makes bad-faith arguments designed to aggravate. Some people say he's a Russian.
Here we go again. Shitting on data with absolutely no counter-factuals. Just feelings.
Hint: There's a source cited at the bottom of the chart. Second hint: The numbers are legit. The bean counters know how to count car sales.
